Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.
Today’s entry is Part 8 of A Dance With Dragons, in which we cover Chapter 12 (“Reek”) and Chapter 13 (“Bran”).
Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.
And now, the post!
Chapter 12: Reek
What Happens
In the dungeon of the Dreadfort, the prisoner tries to eat a rat, but Little Walder and Big Walder come for him before he can finish. They are amused by his wretched and starved appearance, and ask if he remembers his name. The prisoner panics, knowing he will be punished if he gives the wrong name, and they remind him that it is Reek. He remembers that that was not his original name, but agrees frantically. He contemplates trying to overpower the boys and run, but remembers when he had tried to run before with Kyra from Winterfell, only to learn that they had been allowed to escape so that Lord Ramsay could have the fun of hunting them down.
The Frey boys take Reek out of the dungeon to the dining hall, where Lord Ramsay is eating with two lords of unsavory appearance. Ramsay smiles to see Reek, and introduces him to the lords as his companion since he was a boy. The lords are confused, saying they’d heard Ramsay’s serving man was dead, slain by the Starks, and Ramsay entreats them to look closer.
“His hair’s gone white and he is three stone thinner, aye, but this is no serving man. Have you forgotten?”
The crookback lord looked again and gave a sudden snort. “Him? Can it be? Stark’s ward. Smiling, always smiling.”
“He smiles less often now,” Lord Ramsay confessed. “I may have broken some of his pretty white teeth.”
Reek remembers the torture Ramsay had inflicted upon him, flaying and cutting off toes and fingers, and tries to apologize. The lords think Ramsay should kill him and be done with it, but Ramsay tells Reek he has “glad tidings”: his father is bringing him Arya Stark to marry so he will be lord of Winterfell. He asks if Reek remembers Arya, and he does, and congratulates Ramsay. Ramsay says he wants Reek to attend the wedding, and promises to get him out of the dungeon and clean him up for it.
“I have a little task for you, and you’ll need your strength back if you are to serve me. You do want to serve me, I know.”
“Yes, my lord. More than anything.” A shiver went through him. “I’m your Reek. Please let me serve you. Please.”
“Since you ask so nicely, how can I deny you?” Ramsay Bolton smiled. “I ride to war, Reek. And you will be coming with me, to help me fetch home my virgin bride.”
Commentary
*jaw drops*
Well, ho-lee shit. Theon Greyjoy, not dead after all!
…Not technically, anyway. I’m… not actually sure this version of “being alive” counts. It’s certainly not a state of existence I would wish on just about anyone. Possibly not even Theon Greyjoy. Because, Jesus H.
I was incredibly confused at the beginning of this chapter. Which I was meant to be, of course, but I’m still a little confused. I think I’ve worked it out, though. While I didn’t remember specifically at first that Reek had died, I knew that there was a character named Reek, and I spent the first half of the chapter desperately trying to remember what he’d done and who he was affiliated with, and drawing a blank. But fortunately for me, Martin is generally pretty darn good at dropping enough hints to jog the reader’s memory without making it sound overly contrived. Even readers reading as slow as me, it seems.
So, apparently the original Reek was the servant-slash-whipping boy of Lord Ramsay now-Bolton, and then got killed, probably during the sacking of Winterfell, the details of which are really vague to me at this point. And then, apparently, Lord Ramsay, whose Humanitarian of the Year Award is no doubt in the mail as we speak, captured (or maybe found?) Theon and spent the rest of the intervening time indulging in some charming bouts of torture, brainwashing, and general strenuous effort to climb to the top of my ASOIAF Do Not Want List.
He hasn’t succeeded, yet, but he shouldn’t feel bad about that. I mean, between Joffrey, Qyburn, Gregor Clegane, Walder Frey, and probably a bunch of others I’m forgetting at the moment, that is an extremely competitive list. It’s like the world’s most depressing and repulsive Olympics up in here. We’re talking world-class levels of Assholery, y’all. Yaaaaaaay.
Whenever he closed his eyes, he found himself remembering Lady Hornwood. After their wedding, Lord Ramsay had locked her away in a tower and starved her to death. In the end she had eaten her own fingers.
That said, these Boltons are some seriously sick customers, you guys. If I thought for one second that Ramsay was actually going to get his hands on Arya I would be freaking the hell out right now. As it is, I’m only freaking the heck out over whoever the poor girl is who’s impersonating Arya—whether or not Ramsay even discovers the deception, really.
Though I assume he will, since even Stockholm Syndrome Poster Boy Reekified Theon will probably be able to tell a fake Arya from the real one. Basically I can’t see this going well for the girl under any circumstances, though I suppose we can always hope that she trips and breaks her neck before Ramsay ever gets to her.
(I’m pretty sure I remember that there was a fake Arya thing, right? I can’t remember whether Roose was in on the ruse (heh), but I remember that it was a thing. I think.)
If I’m supposed to recognize the two lords Ramsay is eating with from their descriptions, I don’t, but I do have to wonder what Martin has against non-hideous people sometimes. Or maybe he subscribes to the theory that you resemble the company you keep, in which case, well-played. When I finally get to watch the HBO version of the series I expect I’m going to spend quite a lot of time amused at how frequently the Hollywood version of “ugly” fails to live up to the choice images Martin regularly evokes of his characters. Sheesh.
But anyway, so Theon is only mostly dead, and all the way broken, and about to blow the whistle on Fake Arya, most likely. Good times, can’t wait to hear more, we’re having soooo muuuuch fuuuuun.
Chapter 13: Bran
What Happens
Coldhands warns Bran, Meera, and Jojen that the white walkers are near. He points them to a cave entrance up on a hill, and says they will be safe if they can reach it. Meera asks, what about him, but Coldhands answers that the cave is warded. Jojen is too weak to walk, but Meera has been carrying him. They set out to reach the cave, but are attacked by wights halfway there. Hodor is pulled down and Bran falls out of his basket. Summer and Coldhands fight them, but there are too many. Without meaning to, Bran takes over Hodor’s body and causes him to fight the wights as well. Suddenly the wights catch on fire, and Bran sees a little girl darting about with a torch, and for a moment thinks she is Arya. He is thrown back into his own body just as a pile of snow is dumped on him.
He wakes to find they are all in the cave except Coldhands, and the girl is not a girl at all, but one of the children of the forest. She tells them they are not children, but call themselves “those who sing the song of earth” in the True Tongue. Meera points out that she speaks Common Tongue now, and she answers that she walked the world of men for two hundred years, and learned it “for him. The Bran boy.” She says she will take them to the greenseer.
She leads them deep underground through a vast network of tunnels threaded with the white roots of weirwoods, covered in bones in some places, until they come to a vast cavern with an underground river in it. Then they see “a pale lord in ebon finery” on a throne of weirwood. He looks dead and half-rotted, and the roots grow through him in places, but he is alive. Bran asks if he is the three-eyed crow, and the man answers that he was a crow once, “garbed in black”, as well as many other things. He tells Bran that he has been watching Bran “with a thousand eyes” since before he was born, and seen all the events of his life, but could only come to him in dreams.
“And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.”
“I’m here,” Bran said, “only I’m broken. Will you… will you fix me… my legs, I mean?”
“No,” said the pale lord. “That is beyond my powers.”
Bran’s eyes filled with tears. We came such a long way. The chamber echoed to the sound of the black river.
“You will never walk again, Bran,” the pale lips promised, “but you will fly.”
Commentary
OMG! An actual child! Of the actual forest! ABOUT DAMN TIME.
Not that we got to learn all that much about them just yet, other than that they have cat eyes, but still. FINALLY.
So this chapter was extremely fraught, and I’m sort of surprised that everyone in the party survived it. Well, except maybe Coldhands, I’m unclear on that, but he is technically already dead, so.
And Bran warged Hodor to good purpose, sort of! It’s hard to argue with what Bran did here, since it seems to have been about the only reason they all survived the wights, but I still am extremely uneasy about the whole deal. Even more so that it did good, in a way, because that makes it that much easier for Bran to justify future involuntary wargings, and that just can’t lead anywhere good.
As for three-eyed crow dude, the description of him is probably one of the more creepily cool ones I’ve come across in a long while. You should go back and read it for yourself if you haven’t already, because wow.
And he used to be Night’s Watch! I wonder who he was and how he ended up, erm, planted in this cave. Presumably we’re going to find out at some point. Though I have to think he can’t be anyone from recent times, not when he’s that… thoroughly landscaped.
(Yes, I know. Yes, I’m sorry.)
That shit did not happen overnight, methinks. Seriously, how does that even work. Magic, I suppose.
Also, I know the way I phrased it in the summary implies that not-Arya spent two hundred years learning the Common Tongue specifically for Bran’s sake, but it’s actually not clear from what she said whether she meant she learned it for Bran, or is just currently speaking it for Bran. But wow, if she actually meant the former, that is super intriguing. Certainly what the greenseer guy said implied that they’ve been waiting for Bran for a good long while.
(But for what? And why? And what the hell does it mean that Bran’s going to fly but not walk? TELLLLLLL MEEEEEEEEEEE ARGH)
“Hodor,” Hodor said with every step. “Hodor, hodor.” He wondered what Meera would think if he should suddenly tell her that he loved her.
Uh. This is… a little unclear to me, though perhaps I am just complicating things, but is “he” in that latter sentence supposed to be Bran, or Hodor? I mean, it’s probably Bran, but seeing as he’s in Hodor’s body at the time and the fact that there wasn’t a paragraph break there, it’s sort of ambiguous.
Anyway, assuming it’s Bran, um, whoa there, cowboy. Aren’t you, like, nine or something right now? That’s maybe a little young for a love declaration?
Then again, I think it’s been established that generally speaking, kids in ASOIAF are mentally and physically about three years ahead of where real kids typically are, so in that light Bran’s probably right on schedule for his first crush. Plus, given the extraordinarily life-and-death circumstances, Bran can likely be forgiven for jumping the gun anyway. Carpe diem and all that.
And… yes. Lots of set-up and very little payoff in these chapters, so that’s about all I’ve got for now. Have a lovely week, in which I understand there might be some dinky little sportsball thing happening for the Americans, so you know, enjoy that, and I’ll see you next Thursday!
Just to jog your memory: when Theon took Winterfell, Ramsay, using the name Reek, volunteered to bring men to assist in holding the castle from the vengeful northmen. The original Reek was his longtime companion, with whom Ramsay traded clothes while they were being hunted, and was subsequently killed because the hunters believed him to be Ramsay.
Dany wonders if she’s become a monster…and then we get a chapter with a real monster. Ramsay, I mean.
Think Lannisters are bad? Meet the Freys. Think Freys are bad? Meet the Greyjoys. Think Greyjoys are bad? Meet the Boltons.
Yep, GRRM has done what he loves to do: make a character do terrible things until we wish a gruesome fate upon them – and then inflict them with something even more gruesome and horrible until we feel bad. Happened with Gregor, Hoat, Jaime (to some readers), and now Theon…
“And I thought this series couldn’t outdo itself for horrific crimes against humanity.” – Leigh, mid-AFFC
UNspoiled: “It’s always Halloween in the Dreadfort.”
Kyle: “Reek, Reek, rhymes with Ramsay Bolton, you are one sick, twisted mothafuc-“-*shudder* “Oh man.” *shudder*
You actually first met Ramsay claiming to be Reek. He ingratiated himself with Theon, and helped bait the trap that led to Theon’s capture.
Reek’s chapter starts with a squealing rat, Bran’s with screaming ravens. BTW, a reader elsewhere said that a rat would be very hard to bite into, even with a full set of teeth which Theon doesn’t have.
The Bran chapter is a great mix of beauty, tension, and terror. It’s also unusually in-the-moment for ASOIAF, with relatively little remembrance or backstory.
I would read a whole book about that “child’s” 200 years of living among humans.
Neat reference to the myth of Gendel’s underground descendents, which Ygritte had told Jon in ASOS.
UNspoiled raised the question of just why Hodor says only “Hodor,” even when Bran was controlling his brain and mouth.
Oh, the chapter that broke my heart for Theon. I mean, on top of the horrific torture, Ramsay takes away his identity, then makes him think he deserves to be tortured and that Ramsay is good and merciful. Yeeesh.
And yeah, poor Fake Arya. Not a happy fate awaiting her.
Compared to those two, Bran learning he’s never going to walk again doesn’t seem so bad – but of course to him it is. (Also, I had my first crush when I was six or seven, on a boy in my class, and it lasted for years.) Agreed on the ickiness of Bran skin-changing Hodor, and the slippery slope potential of it all. One does not simply warg into Hodor!
@@.-@ Because Bran thinks of that as the only word Hodor says, so when he’s in Hodor’s skin he only says that? Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Surely you mean Sandor, not Gregor, right? I’m not done hating Gregor yet.
*sighs* reading about the antics of Ramsay Bolton made me feel sick. Yeah not much more I can add to that.
“I loathe Gregor with the heat of at least three or four suns, but I don’t think even he deserves (to be vivisected by Qyburn). Why can’t you let him be slowly poisoned to death in peace?” — Leigh, AFFC
(Parentheses because I can’t post with square brackets)
Reek, reek, it rhymes with holy fucking shit what is wrong with Ramsey Snow he makes me want to vomit he is such a freak!
(I refuse to call him Bolton, even if the Lannisters legitimized him)
We have already met fake Arya, Leigh, and in fact learned who she was, but I’ll let you enjoy rediscovering it when we encounter her. As bad as previous marriages have been (Sansa-Tyrion, Edmund- his Frey bride, etc…), fake Arya probably has the worst of all possible suitors. If I had a daughter, I’d honestly rather she married Joffrey than Ramsey. That boy is the most wrong character in all of ASOIAF…shudders.
Just to refresh, when the Starks went to punish Ramsey for forcing Lady Hornwood to marry him and then starve to death (led by Rodrick Cassel, way back in ACOK) he switched places with Reek, and then was captured. Theon later released him to get reinforcements from the Dreadfort (and he then slaughtered the Northmen and Theon’s Ironborn). Real nice guy. And now he’s made Theon his new Reek, through a combination of mutilation, torture, starvation, and some horrors for which I don’t even know the words.
Big and Little Walder were always tools, especially Little Walder, but it’s hard to understand how even they could be fans of Ramsey.
The Bran chapter was awesome. There’s much I can’t say, but I do want to correct you that the 3 Eyed Crow technically didn’t say he watched Bran with a thousand eyes. He said “I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one”. Hopefully this comment doesn’t draw flagging, won’t say more on this point.
The Reek/Theon chapters are fairly enjoyable reads from a pure psychological standpoint. Can’t really say that much more due to spoilers, but it’s one of the more tense and gripping arcs in this book by virtue of the glimpses it gives you into the minds of certain characters.
Well, a lot of the tension, as you may have guessed from this chapter, also comes from Reek-on frantically trying to figure out how to react to various questions/comments in a way that doesn’t get Ramsey in a cutting mood. Even if Ramsey really comes off as the sort of person who’d get put in a cutting mood by you not giving him a reason to cut, which makes that somewhat of an uphill climb for the guy.
I think the great thing about Ramsey is that it wasn’t enough to make him a total psychotic monster, but R.R. added that element of fake friendliness to his demeanor just to make him that extra touch worse, as it allows you to imagine him torturing the crap out of someone while carrying on this cheery conversation the entire time.
“Ah, Reek, I’ve heard father is bringing me my bride, which makes me so very happy. Does it make you happy, as well? Ah, good, good. The problem is, she isn’t here yet, so I’m going to have to pass the time somehow…guards, bring my skinning knife! Don’t worry, Reek, this won’t take long. I mean, for me, it’ll only feel like mere moments!”
No. Thanks.
Reek chapter – no comment other than yuck, several times yuck.
Bran chapter – must….not….say….anything….Leigh….hasn’t….figured….out….yet. OK, that feels better. Really great to meet the CoF and now we have our new intriguing guy. Query how is he watching Bran all his life (don’t answer that, unless you are Leigh).
RE: the crow, he actually told you right in this chapter who he was.
Before I even get to the rest of this, I just have to say:
“I’m going to spend quite a lot of time amused at how frequently the Hollywood version of “ugly” fails” –
First of all, so excited that you are intending to watch the show and I hope you blog it!
Second of all: Tyrion.
@12: … Jorah. Roose. Ramsay.
Leigh’s comment made me chuckle, making me think of the difference between the description of the Boltons in the book and what they look like on the show.
Going a little bit spoilery on the show here, their Hollywood version of “fat” also fails. Their version of Illiryo isn’t as fat as I imagined (or as described in the text). Even Sam I think is a little bit less chubby than I imagined.
It’s not HBO or D&D’s fault, though. It’s kind of the norm. So when I go to see a Dune movie, I’m not surprised that their baron Harkonnen isn’t as fat as imagined, and it’s just played by Kenneth McMillan. I must say, though, I was surprised to finally see a truly fat guy playing the Baron in the SyFy series (Ian McNeice).
Lyanna@5 –
“One does not simply warg into Hodor” – that seriously made me laugh out loud. :)
Regarding HBO & Hollywood ugly, good call Leigh. Gregor Clegane, Brienne, Tyrion, Yorick and Jorah Mormont are all way too pretty to be the characters described in the books. By contrast, Catelyn, Cersei & Margaery are not nearly as attractive as they were described. I also thought Jaime was a bit too rugged & rough hewn, since the descriptions in the books seem to imply a bit of androgyny in his appearance. There is no way anyone would think the actors who play Jaime & Cersei could have ever been mistaken for one another. On the other hand, the actor who plays Jaime is apparently sufficiently attractive to play a guy who could play women who look like Kate Upton & Cameron Diaz, so what do I know.
They also went a bit older on all the characters. Rickon is definitely played by a guy much older than 3, and in the episode described in this week’s reading, the actor who plays Bran is obviously way too old to play a nine year old. If he were not playing a kid who can’t stand up, his growth spurt prior to season four would have been obvious.
As far as previous references, while the lords Ramsey was hosting have been mentioned or introduced, IIRC, there was not enough given to pick out who they were. Back when he gave her the sword, Jaime told Brienne about the fake Arya and that Roose Bolton knew she was fake.
Looking at it strictly from the Bolton PoV, a fake Arya is better than the real thing, so long as the real one never shows up. For one thing, the real Arya would absolutely kill Ramsey stone-cold dead before the honeymoon was over. For another, she’s too young to consumate the marriage, or gestate a Bolton heir to Winterfell. Likewise, she’d have influence in her own right, and someone they’d have to be wary of, since she could rally support from her family’s friends and allies. On the other hand, a fake is just as invested in the deception as the Boltons. She can’t turn on them, because if she tries to raise a rebellion, they can expose her to the rest of the northmen and claim to be fellow victims of her treachery. The longer the charade goes on, the deeper she gets into their clutches.
As for the three(or one, or thousand)-eyed crow, let me just say (roll over for spoilers), there is a reason we wanted you to read the books AND the D&E novellas in the order they were published, as that same guy is prominently mentioned in those stories, and even makes an appearance in one. That makes him one of three characters who are alive in both the shorter stories and the novels, the other two being Walder Frey & Maester Aemon (who himself provided in this very book some hints to the identity of the three eyed crow). Although there is also some fan speculation that Old Nan, the story-telling nurse of the Starks might have been around in the Dunk & Egg days as well.
(Note: message edited by moderator – whited out potential spoilers.)
God, ya, it’s hard sometimes not to say anything.
As regards Bran, perhaps, being in love with Meera. It wasn’t until later in my life, and having been in a couple relationships, that I looked back and realized that I had in fact been in love with my grade school crush, off and on again girlfriend I’d had since about kindergarten. Well, I mean, it wasn’t a grown up relationship obviously, but we played sports together, spent a lot of time together, she’s the first girl I kissed when we were 8, and just kept going. In High school we went our separate ways, but I have always had a fondness for her, and yes, I was in love with her, as close as a kid can be anyway.
On, and Theon deserves everything that happens to him, two little kids, presumably their parents, and Mikken, at the least, not to mention he is at least partially responsible for the castle being sacked by Ramsay because he put the possible defenders in the easily assaultable position of sieging him.
a lot of time has passed actually. I noticed a few times in the read, you are still using agot ages (understandable, the hints of how much time has passed are subtle). But Bran *is* actually about 11 or 12 now. Rob at the red wedding was 17, and had been 14 at the start of ago
@16 – in the show, I believe GRRM intentionally aged up all the child characters a few years, since he said he feels that’s the ages they should have been in the first place when he wrote the books.
@14 Illyrio is probably the worst-cast (and worst-costumed) character in the entire show. In the book he’s fat but he’s also supposed to be really decadent. In the show he’s just a bland-looking dude.
@19 that had less to do with GRRM and more to do with casting and some of the content (like you dont actually want a girl sansa’s age in sexual situations on tv for example)
Though George I think has said a few times he didnt always have a perfect grasp of the maturity to age ratio
So we get to see a look at what amounts to unimaginable cruelty. Unimaginable to most except GRRM.
Being tortured, not for betraying the Starks, for the fun of it does take out the feeling of poetic justice we sought in a comeuppance for his character and others like him.
@16: Jaime and Cersei looked alike to the point they could be mistaken for each other when they were children. Nobody has mistaken Jaime for Cersei since they reached puberty, so I don’t see any evidence of Jaime looking androgynous. If he did look androgynous, I imagine someone would mention that and say something like “He looks like a woman”. But despite the high number of people who hate him, nobody says that.
What people do say about Jaime is that he’s exceptionally handsome/beautiful. He may not be the “rugged” type, but that doesn’t mean he looks androgynous. Alain Delon was always considered a beautiful man, and never looked rugged, but nobody would say he looked like a girl. Personally, I would find it much harder to imagine a Jaime who looks androgynous and still is considered so attractive by the women of Westeros, since I can’t think of many genuinely androgynous-looking male sex symbols women go gaga over.
Since Jaime is supposed to be tall, really really good-looking and hot, NCW, who plays Jaime on the show, perfectly fits the bill. In season 1 he looked pretty much like Prince Charming; since Jaime’s captivity, he’s had a more rugged, scruffy look (at least during his Riverlands adventures) – as Jaime did during those times (except he did not shave his head like book!Jaime).
However, other than Jaime and Jaqen, the guys who are supposed to be really good-looking in the books don’t live up to that in the show (Renly, Theon, Joffrey, and to an extent Loras – Finn Jones looks more attractive in real life) while other guys, who are never explicitly described as good-looking (Jon, Robb) or are supposed to be plain (Jorah, Ned) are far hotter. Oddly enough, I find show!Stannis to be the most attractive of the Baratheon bros, while it’s supposed to be the opposite in the books.
Of course, attractiveness is a matter of taste… so there’s that.
(And BTW…. Gregor Clegane was never described as ugly, there are no descriptions of his face at all, only of how huge he is. Therefore I don’t see why any of the actors who played him would be considered “too good-looking”.)
Re: the ages. Characters have been aged up in the TV show – all kids were aged up by 2-4 years. Rickon is not supposed to be 3 in season 1, he’s supposed to be 6. The actor who plays Bran is not playing a 9-yer old – show!Bran was 10 (instead of 7) in the first episode of season 1, and the actor was 10 when he was cast. He’s 14 now, which doesn’t make him that much older than his show character – especially since it’s very unclear how much time has passed during the first 4 seasons. All the younger kids are played by actors who were very close to their show ages when they were cast. Maisie Williams was 12 during the shooting of the pilot, and show!Arya was 11 (instead of 9). Sophie Turner was 13 during the shooting of the pilot and 14 during the shooting of season 1, and show!Sansa was 13 (instead of 11). On the other hand, Jon, Robb and Dany were aged up to 17 instead of 14, but are/were played by actors who are actually in their mid-20s. Same goes for Gendry.
Oh, me. When I read this book the first time & got to this Reek chapter, I read a few paragraphs & just stopped. I was all ‘NOPE’ & ‘DO NOT WANT’. I paged through & dipped in here & there just enough to know that Theon was alive, that he was being physically & psychologically tortured by Ramsey, & that Ramsey is a more horrible person than I had previously imagined. :)
Bran & compnay finally reach the three-eyed crow! Hallelujah!! And he is pretty darned creepy. Oooh & we meet an actual Child of the Forest. I KNEW they weren’t all dead! :) Poor Jojen is about at the end of his tether. And the ‘Bran loves Meera’ reveal just made me go WUT.
@18: No more than two years (at most) have passed since early AGOT, so Leigh is right, Bran is about 9 now, since he was 7 in AGOT.
@20: What’s sad is that Illyrio was really well cast in the original pilot (Ian McNiece) and had a very elaborate and decadent costume, as seen in a screenstill from the original pilot that can be seen on ASOAIF wiki.
@21: The aging up didn’t have anything to do with Sansa (the actress and the character were still too young to be nude in some scenes where there’s nudity in the book, as when Joffrey had her stripped and beaten, or on her wedding night; but the show still had her put in all those sexual situations minus nudity). It was all about Dany and her storyline with Drogo in AGOT/season 1, since that included actual sex scenes. And since Dany’s age is tied up to the ages of all the kids, they aged them all up by 2-3 years. Which was also, no doubt, useful in order to be able to cast older actors.
@22: I don’t think that betraying the Starks qualifies as some heinous crimes. I love the Starks, but Theon owed them no loyalty. He was Ned’s hostage. It can be argued he owed Robb loyalty, because Robb was his friend, but that’s all.
However, taking Winterfell (which was his own idea!) was a dick move. If he had just joined Balon’s campaign but stayed away from Winterfell and the people he grew up with, who didn’t do anything wrong to him, I don’t think anyone would have anything to scold him for.
Theon’s actual crime, however, was the murder of two innocent boys and their parents*. The fact he did it only so he wouldn’t look like a fool, and because smallfolk are considered expendable, makes it even worse in my eyes.
* And let’s just remember the fact that Ramsay (then disguised as his servant “Reek”) was the one who suggested and carried out the murder. Ramsay was the devil on Theon’s shoulder in ACOK, and in ADWD, if Theon is in hell (and if Dreadfort is not hell, I don’t know what is), he is the devil punishing Theon.
@25, And remember, since Ramsay as Reek is the one who orchestrated that murder to hide the disappearance of Bran and Rickon, that means Ramsay knows they are alive, while the rest of the North thinks they are dead.
Yes, well they had to do that. Otherwise you’d have a fourteen year-old being raped by a horse lord in the first episode. The outcry may have been too much had THAT aired
@25: I was trying to highlight that those that see the events through Theon’s eyes wanted his character to face retribution that they would think he needed. Then he shows us this.
@27: It wasn’t even about fearing the possible outcry. They simply wouldn’t have been allowed to shoot sex scenes involving a a 13-year old character (even if the actress was much older) or an underage actress, by child entertainment laws.
I would say that a bit more than 2 years have passed since early AGoT. It has been mentioned that Jon is now 17 and Dany 16 and they were 14 and 13 in the beginning, respectively. OTOH, GRRM doesn’t seem to track age correctly for all characters – Tommen is still said to be 8, when he really should be 9, for instance.
So, yea, Bran is definitely 9+ and old enough for a first, childish crush. All the dangers he had to face and the many romantic stories he had been raised on would have only contributed to it happening now and not later.
I also don’t entirely agree that all characters should have been 3 years older. Sansa would have appeared a proper dimwit in such a case and somewhat deserving of the hate spewed at her for her actions in AGoT. Also, Arya’s wasting of her 3 names is plausible for a 10-year-old, but would have made a 13-year-old look like an idiot. Ditto Dany. Ditto some of Jon’s actions. Etc.
IMHO, GRRM should have just progressed the time-line properly. A lot of things during the War of Five Kings happened far too quickly given the distances involved. It could have easily been 4 years instead of 2+.
I’m not holding my breath but I so hope we will get a reread of ASOIAF once this is over, this book makes so much more sense the second time than the first.
@31: as per my comment earlier today on Leigh’s re-re-read of WOT, I agree completely. I’m currently nearing the end of aGoT on my second pass through the series, and am enjoying it SO MUCH more than the first time through. Knowing more about the various characters, and not having to hurry ahead to satisfy my curiosity about future events, I’m picking up so many more foreshadowings and appreciating the reasons some of the characters are the way they are.
@8: Personally, I call him Ramsay Bolton. He’s Bolton to the marrow, even if his mother never married Roose, and I don’t like to call him by Jon Snow’s surname. But preferences vary.
In case you need to be disturbed more, the Google search box says “50 Shades of Greyjoy” is a thing. I don’t dare to look. But I have elsewhere seen a picture of a faux ‘book cover’ with show!Roose on it: “50 Shades of Flay, by R. Bolton.”
*skulks away*
@30: Not to mention, Sansa having her first period (a major plot point in her arc) at age 15 would have been pretty unlikely.
Ramsay really needs a good nickname for us to call him by. The Bastard of Bolton just doesn’t seem strong enough to convey his personality somehow. Any suggestions? The Flayer in chief?
“In every generation there is a Chosen One. He alone will stand against the Starks, the Greyjoys and the forces of darkness. He is the Flayer.”
It’s little known, but these are actually the House Bolton words.
@25
More than two years have passed beyond a doubt. Robb is 17 at the red wedding and 14 at the start of AGOT. So we know at *least* three years have passed. Dance and AFFC overlap the timeline, but that still means theat more than 3 years has passed since the start of the series since plenty of time since the red wedding has occured.
So what happens when a nine year old, who may be old enough for puppy love puts his consciousness in the body of a man? Hodor’s hormones may be influencing what Bran is feeling for Meera into a more adult mode than they would normally be.
@5 – Lyanna. That’s hillarious. I’m glad I read your comment.
@35: The Dreadlord? :-P
@37 That doesn’t mean “at least three years” have passed, it just means it’s 2+. Robb could’ve been close to turning fifteen at the beginning, and just turned seventeen at the RW, which would make it something like two years and a couple months. I would put the whole series so far as covering 2½-3 years. Definitely not four.
@15, 39 – Pleased to have been of service!
can’t believe you didn’t recognize who the three-eyed crow was. Like C’mon Leigh…..
@41
Well I was starting to type this long post with all these in text references to show brans age lol… but then found an easier way. He was born in 290 AL. It is 301 AL in dance. 11 yeas old.
“Hodor,” Hodor said with every step. “Hodor, hodor.” He wondered what Meera would think if he should suddenly tell her that he loved her.
I interpreted this as Bran thinking about making Hodor say something other than Hodor and letting Meera think that Hodor loves her.
So it looks like I’m the only person who didn’t realise that Reek == Theon for several chapters yet.
And I had no idea who the Three Eyed Crow was at all.
@43
All of ADWD takes place in 300 AC. Bran is still 9 years old at this point, although his 10th nameday shouldn’t be too far away. Not like he’ll have a chance to celebrate it though.
Now it should be obvious if you have the same reading shedule as Leigh.
(roll over for spoilers)
Take description of TEC, remove his half-plant template and try to extrapolate how he could look before. Then you should remember historical character with suitable look.
Note: message edited by moderator — whited out spoilers.
All of ADWD takes place in 300 AC. Bran is still 9 years old at this
point, although his 10th nameday shouldn’t be too far away. Not like
he’ll have a chance to celebrate it though.
———————————————————
301 AC. The new century started during Purple Wedding. -00 year is a last year of previous century. 2000 was XX-th, 2001 was XXI-st.
@48
Nope, Joffrey and Margaery got married on the first day of 300 AC.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/300_AC
#37: There definitely haven’t been three years between the start of AGOT and the end of AFFC, since Sansa was 11 at the start of AGOT, and was still 13 halfway through AFFC. And obviously, even less time has passed between the start of AGOT and the start of ADWD (which is shortly after the end of ASOS), since Sansa was still a month shy of her 13th birthday on her wedding to Tyrion.
Bran was 7 at the start of AGOT, that means he’s 9 now; at most, he can be 10 if he was just about to turn 8 in AGOT.
#48, 49 – It seems that the people of Westeros are just as bad with math as the people of Earth.
@35 Iron Chef Bolton Flay
@52. LOL. I like that one. :) But, I really, really love Food Network shows so…
51, 52 – we should just nickname Ramsey “Bobby Flay” for fun.
44- I had a different take. Bran is focusing on being Hodor at that point (saying Hodor with every step) but thinking about what would happen if Bran fessed up on Bran’s love for Meera when he was back in his own body.
Re Fake Arya, remember Jaime’s talk with Brienne telling her not to be fooled by the fake northern girl claiming to be Arya back in AFFC. (You can actually figure out who it likely is, but you’d need to dig back into past chapters and think hard about it – way too much work to bother. )
Funny, when I read that bit about Bran wanting to make Hodor say “I love you” I took it as Bran pulling a practical joke — as in, just to see what her reaction would be. I didn’t think Bran actually had a crush on Meera, but then I will say of anything GRRM is not good at writing or showing actual romance/love. I think the closest thing we’ve had is Cat + Ned, which was very… tepid, for lack of a better word.
Sure he can do passion, he can do physical lust/attraction, but the love part–haven’t seen much if any of it in ASOIAF. (And I don’t necessarily mean this negatively, just as an observation)
I didn’t know who the 3EC was until I read spoilers from people who read the other books. I don’t think it’s at all obvious unless you read GRRMs other books, so I don’t think his identity really matters in the grand scheme of things.
And I second those on 1) a reread after this is all done and 2) Leigh covering the TV show when she watches it as well. Would be great fun!
@57: I completely disagree with that. I think GRRM is often excellent in writing romance – especially when it’s unconsummated and/or more hinted than explicitly confirmed.
As for Bran, there were subtle hints of him developing a crush on her since ACOK.
@56 naupathia- I think GRRM’s portrayal of Brienne and Jaime’s unrealized love is actually very well written, and Cat and Ned’s romance didn’t seem tepid to me.
Oh, and Vic and his dead wife…never mind.
@58: There are at least one or two romances in the making (more like future romances? at least one of them), but I’m not going to mention since it seems GRRM was too subtle for some readers, including Leigh.
And while it may not exactly be a romance, the chemistry between Dunk and Rohanne in The Sworn Sword was incredible.
Hey, give Ramsay time. He’ll soon top that “Do Not Want” List.
@25: I agree that Theon didn’t owe the Starks anything, though it’s easy to see why the Starks (particularly the younger ones, who grew up with him) think otherwise. He was ultimately their hostage, even if they were good hosts, for the most part.
What he’s ultimately culpable for are the same things anybody else would be, i.e., the murder of the kids, having Septon Chayle murdered, etc.
I saw Bran’s comment, while warging with Hodor, about telling Meera he loved her, somewhat differently.
My impression was that it might be a thought from Hodor. From other warging, such as Bran with Summer, Arya with Nymeria, we’ve seen that the thoughts/feelings of the warg and wargee kind of blend. I know all Hodor can say is “Hodor”…but when I read that I wondered if that was Bran sensing Hodor being aware of concepts he can’t express, like the concepts of “love” and “expression,” enough to understand he can’t express himself like others can but wish that he could. Bran warging Hodor is disturbing, but maybe it does give Bran an opportunity to understand Hodor in a way that Hodor can’t make himself understood to anyone else. Maybe I just wanted that to be true, because it would be cool and beautiful and…well that’s not really ASoIaF, now is it? So maybe wishful thinking.
Whether it’s Bran or Hodor, or both though, I didn’t parse that as romantic love; rather, the love of friendship and companionship for people you’ve been traveling with, depending on, and barely surviving with for quite some time now. It could be romantic love…but it makes plenty of sense if it’s not.
Thank you guys for my two new words of the week: ‘Reekified’ and ‘wargee’. Ugh, I would detest being a Reekified wargee. o.0
I appreciate the wide range of interpretations of the text shared above. Martin’s writing is so complex, nuanced, and multi-layered that multiple readers can experience the same passage differently – and an individual reader can have a vastly different experience of the same text upon rereading. (Layers! Hmmm. Onion or parfait?)
“I agree that Theon didn’t owe the Starks anything”
I’m not sure about this. In Catelyn chapter after the assassin attacked Bran, Theon told her that “Lord Eddard is a second father to me.”
Dammit, hit post too soon. We then get the following dialogue:
Catelyn: “Winterfell may have need of all its swords soon, and they had best not be made of wood.”
Theon: “My lady, if it comes to that, my House owes yours a great debt.”
@64-65: First, that’s from Catelyn’s POV, not Theon’s. A person who’s being held hostage is going to do his best to fit in (as Sansa shows). Not that the Starks didn’t treat Theon better than Sansa, but as Theon himself says once he gets away from them, he was ultimately their hostage, with the threat of execution constantly hanging over him.
@66: While I agree that we need to be careful in assessing the words of someone other than the POV character, I don’t think we can just dismiss Theon’s words altogether. If we carry that too far, we’re into solipsism.
As for the (somewhat contradictory) argument that Theon only said those words because of his situation, I don’t accept that either. In both situations, Theon didn’t need to add those particular comments at all. He could have said nothing, or much less. The fact that he was this effusive demonstrates that he did have some level of affection for and loyalty towards the Starks.
actually I think asoiaf gets it right on where its children develop. The modern world invited childhood and keeps children artifically innocent much much longer than any other culture. Remember in the middle ages people married at 12 or 13. This is arguably more natural since our natural life span without the unnaturalness of modern health care (which don’t get me wrong I love) is 40 or so.
Oh and as for putting down roots … yeah just wait …
@56 I really have to disagree but I guess you are one of the horse lord haters. What we see develop between Denarrys and the horse lord is real love. I would argue what we see between Cersi and her twin is also real love … but a fucked up love (a fucked up love can certainly still be real love look at the lady who married the guy who blinded her with acid). But then I would also not go so far as to say what happened to Denarrys was rape as she was married …. an opinon I know is not shared by many (none here I suspect).
@25 I don’t remember the exact passage, but I’m pretty sure Theon swore allegiance to King Robb.
@68: There’s nothing “natural” about that (gods, I hate that word and how it usually gets abused). Most 13-year olds aren’t ready for a romantic and/or sexual relationship, and would not get married if not forced into it. And giving birth in your early adolescence is very much undesirable or, as you’d say, “unnatural”, since the reproductive system is not yet fully developed, which is why complications at birth are frequent, there is a much higher percentage of dying at childbirth and infant mortality, or you get your reproductive system ruined by childbirth at 13 and remain sterile like Margaret Beaufort. Which is why this actually was not a frequent occurence in the actual Middle Ages – if girls got married at 13, the husband would usually wait a few years to start having sex with her and getting her pregnant. GRRM himself said the exact same thing about the world of ASOAIF.
That’s, of course, without even getting into the topic of how capable would a 13-year old be of raising a child…
BTW, Catelyn was betrothed at 12, but didn’t get married until 17/18. Cersei was also 17 or 18 when she got married.
And if modern health care is “unnatural”, so is the institution of marriage. (And laws, and houses, and hygene etc.)
@67: It’s not about whether Theon felt affection and loyalty to the Starks, it’s about whether he had an obligation to be loyal to them. Yes, he grew up with these people and they treated him pretty well, but it’s not like Balon abandoned him and Ned adopted him – he was a hostage. I don’t think it could be argued that he owed the Starks to choose them over his biological family – and in Westeros, people are usually expected to side with their biological family, anyway; few people dare go against their families even when their families are much worse to them than Balon was to Theon. Now, Theon deciding to take Winterfell and enjoying the idea of being its lord, and killing the people he grew up with – that was another matter. But the bare fact of siding with Balon over Robb, I don’t know if it’s fair to criticize him for that (although it would also have been completely understandable if he had done the opposite).
And I’m saying that as someone who’s not just a fan of the Starks. but who really hated pre-Reek Theon. I didn’t hate him for betraying the Starks, though – the reason I couldn’t stand him in ACOK was his personality, as seen in his POVs, which rubbed me the wrong way since the opening paragraphs of his first POV chapter: his awful attitude to women (particularly seen in how he treated the Captain’s Daughter), his self-centeredness and arrogance, delusions of grandeur and extremely undeserved and unrealistic conceit (I have no problem with people who are good at something and know it – when pre-maiming Jaime thought he was the best swordsman in the realm, that was perfectly OK because he was probably really was, but Theon was good at nothing other than archery, and still thought of himself as a great leader of men and god’s gift to the world), his lack of regard for, well, just about anyone (including not even caring to see his mother, and his dismissive attitude even to his family members), combined with a considerable degree of stupidity/cluelessness. It only got worse once he took over Winterfell and killed people there while thinking to himself: “But why don’t they like me? I’m so nice! I could be so much worse to them and I’m not, and they aren’t grateful!” That total lack of self-awareness made him more irritating than some of the more evil characters. Though, there was one good thing about him in ACOK – he felt real guilt (despite himself) over some of the things he did, particularly the murders of the miller’s boys and their mother.
It’s still amazing that GRRM managed to make me feel so sorry for him and sympathize with him in ADWD. First he makes you really hate someone, then he turns things around by putting them through such terrible things you must feel sympathy for them.
I like to think of him as a guestage.
This is the real heart of the issue. I see people justifying his behavior on the ground that he didn’t “owe the Starks anything”. That’s how I read the earlier comments along those lines (though, in retrospect, those commenters may not have carried it that far). I pretty strongly disagree with that idea, but I basically agree with what you say here and in the rest of your post.
I haven’t yet developed any real sympathy for Theon — not that anyone, ever, deserves what he got — but that probably says more about me than about him. I haven’t forgiven Jaime for Bran yet, either.
@72, That is what is holding me back in my reread. I literally cannot get through Theon’s chapters again.
@73, I haven’t “forgiven” him, but at the same time, I’ve seen a lot of readers get SO ANGRY because Ned failed to do what Jaime tried to do to Bran, sacrifice another’s children to protect his own, while at the same time hating Jaime for doing what he did.
I think, if the series had set us up to view Jaime as sympathetic, as it did with Ned, the audience would have a different view of what he did.
Of course, I have Ned issues that I don’t share with a vast majority of the fandom.
Some of us have Ned issues, some of us have Xander issues. :)
@69: Did you seriously just say that you don’t think it’s possible for rape to occur within the bounds of marriage? That’s just fucking horrifying. Has anyone noticed that the miller’s sons were almost certainly actually Theon’s, making him a kinslayer?
#69, @77: I didn’t even notice that as I was focused on replying on posts about Theon and didn’t read that one. That’s just… whoa. Really disturbing. And what’s more, it’s not even the idea that husband has the right to his wife’s body if she once gave consent to marry him, which is an awful thing that some/many people believed until recently, sadly enough – but in this case, it was a forced marriage, she was basically sold by her brother and never had say in it, but it doesn’t count as rape because someone performed some ceremony?
#69: I don’t think that the boys were “almost certainly” Theon’s. There’s a possibility that the younger one was his, but I don’t see why it would be almost certainly – it’s not like we know the miller to have been sterile, or the miller’s wife to never have slept with her husband, or anyone else other than Theon; and since she still probably slept much more often with her husband than with Theon (who was never a one-woman man and was not in a serious relationship with her), it’s still more probable he was miller’s son. As for the older one, it’s really unlikely, as it would mean that Theon fathered him when he was 11.
The possibility that the younger boy was Theon’s is an interesting additional factor, but I don’t think it matters much whether he was or wasn’t (which Theon wouldn’t know anyway).
@72: That’s about the best way to sum up Theon. While he was honorbound to the Starks, he was a ward/hostage who likely would have been executed if Balon got too out of line.
I think all of Theon’s stuff in ACoK was some great writing by RR along the lines of crafting his mentality. You can read through that book and easily forget that he is, in a way, a pretty big badass (during AGoT, he was out there with Blackfish as one of the top scouts for Robb’s army; during ACoK, he and only a few Ironborn take Winterfell with no real casualties. While the castle wasn’t well-manned at that point, it’s still a testament to his military skill that the conquest went so smoothly).
However, on the other hand, he’s a pretty weak-willed and stupid guy when it comes to anything remotely common-sense based (“Hey guys! I just betrayed the Starks and took your castle, but don’t worry, it’s me! Theon! Aren’t you happy?!?”) and just came off as such a weasel of a human being that those positive traits get completely forgotten as he blunders his way through all sorts of things leading to his betrayal and capture by Ramsey.
As for the whole Theon/Stark thing, I just chalk the way that whole thing turned out to being just one more (of many) really stupid things Robb did during his short-lived stint as “King of the North”. You have the son of a rebel lord who is being held to keep said rebel lord non-rebellious. So, what do you do? Release him to his father in order to get his help in your war, while not even contemplating that if you’re not holding Theon, Balon has nothing whatsoever stopping him from rebelling again. And if you and all your allies are down in the south and every single army in the region is worried with each other, this time his rebellion might work.
At times it seems like RR is pretty much saying that to be an actually effective ruler, you have to be pragmatic and hard-hearted enough to at least be morally ambigious; while characters who come off as nice, honorable and sensible just wind up being too stupid to be that effective. That happened with Robb and Dany really seems to be getting that way, with her constant angsting about how ruling is, like, so totally hard; combined with her really shaky decision-making processes at times. Right now, her time in Meereen is starting to turn into this series’ version of Perrin’s Really Mopey Quest For Faile that took up about 5000 pages too much space in Wheel of Time.
Balon was going to rebel anyway. Releasing Theon didn’t affect that; what it did was cost Winterfell.
@80, Yup, and Theon never once stops to consider, “My dad was still planning on invading the North, even though THEY STILL HAD ME”
@80. Robb had a perfectly reasonable expectation that Balon would accept his proposed alliance -it made perfect sense. Balon’s plan to attack the North instead without any prior committment from the Lannisters was just absolutely crazy.
I remember an odd juxtaposition of not feeling sorry for Theon, but also not exactly cheering for Ramsay, either, at least not in a “yeah, stick it to him! flay him good!” kinda way.
Re: zaldar’s comments – I vehemently disagree with his assessment of what does and does not constitute rape, but I think in general what he/she means by ‘natural’ is when left to biology. I actually think it is rather interesting that we mature physically before we do emotionally. But I want to add that I hate arguments based on what is ‘natural’ for that very reason…and perhaps it can be said our minds/ability to reason are natural too. And one need only look at statistics from areas where child marriage is still sadly common to see that even physically, young girls are not ready for sex/childbirth. At any rate, I don’t think anybody is worse off for not being married at 13 or 14…
Theon – honestly, I have never been able to get over the murder of the miller’s sons. Not that the other things he has done aren’t horrible, but at least they make an odd sort of sense (and I definitely agree he doesn’t owe the Starks loyalty, but also that it doesn’t absolve him of all culpability from what he did at Winterfell). But the thing with the miller’s sons was so casual and pointless and done for his own stupid insecurity. And maybe Theon is on a redemption arc but…my reaction to that was very visceral so it’s hard to get over.
Aeryl, I’ve read your Ned issues before :) But I actually have never felt that Ned’s mistake was not sacrificing somebody else’s children, so I think I am free to hate that part of Jaime in peace (although I do think he IS on a redemption arc).
Hmmm…now that I’ve read his comments on the last thread, I am guessing zaldar’s impresion of marital rape has to do with his idea that people have the right to do whatever they want…. :-/
@84: Girls aged 13/14 are definitely not biologically ‘mature’ enough for childbirth, as I pointed out in my previous post: the reproductive system is not yet fully developed, and difficulties/deaths in childbirth are therefore much more frequent. GRRM noted that himself (in So Spake Martin) when talking about the age for marriage and sex in Westeros – pointing out that the maesters have noticed that very young mothers have a very high rate of death at childbirth, and that although girls may be wedded and bedded soon after they’ve flowered, most husbands will wait until the girl is 15 or 16 to have sex with her.
So, when someone brings up the “It’s normal in their world” argument in favor of adult men having sex with 12/13-year old brides, we can quote the author himself that it’s not actually “normal” in their world either. As seen in the text itself: Tyrion called Sansa a child multiple times, Viserys wondered if Drogo really “likes his women that young”, and Ned was shocked that Robert got a prostitute pregnant who could have been “no older than 15”. Dany’s marriage to Drogo, Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion, and Ramsay’s upcoming marriage to the alleged “Arya” are definitely not examples of “normal” marriages in the world of ASOAIF.
@86 – yes, that is exactly the same thing I pointed out; in real-world societies with child marriage, the mortality rates are quite high (thus showing that the presence of menstruation/fertility is not an indicator of being actually ready for childbirth). It is interesting , I suppose, that we begin to menstruate before we’re really ready, physically, but then again, things like evolution/biological development don’t really have a ‘will’.
Chapter 12 – Reek:My very first thought here was that this is where Davos has ended up after leaving where we last saw him. I really didn’t want that to be the case, but was fairly worried. (Also, having watched lots of Bizarre Foods has maybe inured me somewhat to these food choices GRRM keeps throwing our way). But, once we see that they are Big and Little Walder, I don’t think it is Davos any more. Not sure whom it is, but not Davos.
I think that we last saw Big and Little way back in Winterfell. And, yes, the memory of escaping with Kyra and saying he’ll bring back a host of Ironborn pretty much clinches it–this must be Theon. My, he hasn’t done well at all. Lord Ramsay is a nasty piece of work.
Luckily we know that the Arya isn’t the real Arya, but still, things probably won’t go well for her. I am guessing that Theon will recognize that Fake Arya isn’t real Arya. Will he just blurt that out or is there some cunning remaining. Interesting what direction that will take.
Chapter 13 – Bran:Climbing up to the cave seems like a really good idea. Not climbing up and staying at the bottom seems like not so much of a good idea. Hopefully we won’t see Meera and her brother as frozen zombies next.
Well, this isn’t going well (they’re being attacked by wights from under the snow). I don’t really want Hodor to become wight food.
OK, they got away. OOOOOH, a child of the forest. Cool. We’ve waited about 7 million pages and finally we get to see one.
And we’re off to meet the greenseer (the wonderful greenseer of Westros [Man, now I’m free associating munchkins.]).
I’m wondering if the greenseer will be able to tell if Bran has been a somewhat naughty warger.
The greenseer appears to have once been a member of the Night’s Watch–a long time ago. Nice cryptic ending there.
hehehe…nice.
Aeryl @@@@@ 74, I enjoy aCoK immensely in part for precisely the reason you do not. The schadenfreude of seeing Theon’s world fall slowly apart, and his amazement and terror at each new revelation of things getting out of his grasp and his impending doom was exquisite. I endure the part where he is being a complete dick because it makes it that much more enjoyable when he is getting his comeuppance.
Re: Bran & Meera. I figured Bran was at least 10 at this point, so it wasn’t unreasonable for him to be crushing on Meera big time. Meera is awesome. What’s not to love? It’s been mentioned before that there really aren’t any “nice” people in this saga, but have either of the Reeds done anything that could be considered not nice?
Apparently the two lords eating are Hother Umber and Arnolf Karstark.
That chapter made me feel bad for Theon. But strangely, the Reek / Theon chapters are quite enjoyable to read; his POVs are interesting and gripping. I can’t say the same about the Daenerys chapters.
There’s definitely something wrong with Ramsay, though I guess I shouldn’t be surprised about what happened, considering all the other horrifying things George R.R. Martin included in these books . . .
Theon is an awful human being I would not mind at all if had died, but I would not wish what happened to him on my worst enemy.