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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 24

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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 24

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A Read of Ice and Fire: A Dance With Dragons, Part 24

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Published on June 11, 2015

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Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire. Today’s entry is Part 24 of A Dance With Dragons, in which we cover Chapter 41 (“The Turncloak”) and Chapter 42 (“The King’s Prize”).

Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.

And now, the post!

Chapter 41: The Turncloak

What Happens

It is snowing, to the glee of Roose Bolton, but not of Theon’s or several other of his followers. Theon, his purpose fulfilled and now ignored by Roose, has considered trying to run, but doesn’t know where he would go if he did. He thinks on how “Lady Arya” has not left her chambers since the wedding night, and he sees her bruises when he is obliged to bathe her for Ramsay, but he tells himself it is her fault. He urges her at one point to “just be Arya,” and Ramsay will not hurt her unless she forgets. He thinks that Theon Greyjoy might have tried to help her, but not Reek. He dreads the day Ramsay tires of his new toy and turns his attentions back to him.

He is waylaid at breakfast by one of the singer’s women, Rowan, who entreats him to dance, or smile, and ignores his request to be left alone. She wants him to tell the tale of how he took Winterfell so Abel can make a song of it, but other than to tell her it was “madness,” he refuses. He thinks her a trick sent by Ramsay, and runs from the hall. He wanders the snowy keep, wondering if Stannis intends to attempt an assault or a siege, and thinks Stannis is doomed to fail either way. He ends up in the godswood, and kneels before the heart tree, murmuring apologies and a plea for salvation, but only hears faint sobbing, and flees.

Back in the dining hall, Theon hears that the snow is greatly impeding Stannis’s progress. Lady Dustin summons him and orders him to show her the crypts below the keep; reluctantly he agrees. Her men have to dig through rubble to get to the entrance. As they go below, Lady Dustin comments that Roose is not pleased that Lady Arya does nothing but weep, as it is upsetting the Northmen formerly loyal to the Starks. She says if Ramsay wants to remain Lord of Winterfell, “he had best teach his wife to laugh.” Theon leads her to Ned’s tomb, and asks her why she hates the Starks. She replies, for the same reasons he loves them, and ignores his spluttered protests to ask why. He confesses, because he wanted to be one of them, and Lady Dustin, replies, so did she.

She tells him how she had given her maidenhead to Brandon Stark and wanted to marry him, but his father Rickard had southron ambitions, and arranged for Brandon to marry Catelyn Tully instead. Lady Dustin had set her sights on the younger brother Eddard then, but “Catelyn Tully got that one as well.” Then she had married Lord Dustin, who was slain in Robert’s uprising, for which she blames Ned Stark. She smiles that Ned’s bones will never rest in his own tomb, though, as she means to feed them to her dogs. She explains that Catelyn sent Ned’s bones north before the Red Wedding, but that they have never emerged from the swamps near Moat Cailin, and if they do, they will not get past her. They go back up to the surface.

“You would do well not to repeat anything I might have said down there. Is that understood?”

It was. “Hold my tongue or lose it.”

“Roose has trained you well.” She left him there.

Commentary

Wow, when I said Lady Dustin was bitter, I knew not how truly I spake.

I use the word “bitter” advisedly, too. I wouldn’t use that word to describe someone I thought had genuine grievances, because to me it carries a distinctly belittling connotation. But from what I can tell, that’s exactly what Lady Dustin deserves.

I mean, okay, clearly she was crazy in love with Brandon Stark, skeevy-yet-unsurprising phallic obsession and all (oh yah, your dick is a sword, sure, you betcha), and okay, it sucks that she didn’t get to marry him, or even Ned, but it seems to me that her thwarting in that regard was owed to standard stupid politics. Which, yes, are stupid, but they constrained Brandon (and Ned) as much as they did her, didn’t they? So yeah, it sucked, but it doesn’t seem like either Brandon or Ned cheated her out of a marriage on purpose. If Lord Rickard had told Brandon (or Ned) to marry Lady Dustin they would have, I bet, but he didn’t, and, well, what are you going to do with that much patriarchy at once?

Maybe there’s more to the story than she’s told Theon (which is certainly possible), but on the surface of it, the gist I get is that she wanted something she couldn’t get, and has let her ensuing decades-long sulk over it turn into a startlingly mis-aimed and vindictive vendetta. Seriously, you’re going to hijack Ned’s bones? Let it go, girl, jeez. Haven’t you ever heard about how the best revenge is to outlive the bastards? Well, you did that. Move on already.

[Lady Dustin:] “Why do you love the Starks?”

“I…” Theon put a gloved hand against a pillar. “…I wanted to be one of them…”

“And never could. We have more in common than you know, my lord.”

Though, granted, feeding your wannabe husband’s already-deceased bones to your dogs pales in comparison to what Theon did out of jealousy for the Starks, so there’s that. Yay?

All that said, I’m still not sure what her angle is in all this. I’m sure she’s not confiding in Theon just because they are both card-carrying members of the We HateLoveNoHateNoLoveYouShutUp the Starks Club, but as far as why she’s actually confiding in him, I profess myself puzzled.

Lady Dustin did, however, justify her existence in this chapter by giving me hope that, if Jeyne must continue to suffer Ramsay’s obscene attentions (*throws a chair or two*), that at least it might lead to his downfall. Because I am soooooooo all about Ramsay Bolton’s downfall, y’all. If that sick fuck ends up getting taken down by his own allies I will throw a goddamn tickertape parade, no lie.

Actually, I will throw a parade no matter who does it, or how implausibly. At this point, Pippi Longstocking could randomly show up in Westeros and strangle the asshole with her disturbingly prehensile braids and I would still be like SEEMS LEGIT, I’LL TAKE IT.

Theon Stark, the Hungry Wolf. My namesake.

I don’t think I knew before that Theon was actually named after a Stark. That’s… odd. Why would Balon Greyjoy name his son after a Stark?

Lord Beron Stark, who made common cause with Casterly Rock to war against Dagon Greyjoy, Lord of Pyke, in the days when the Seven Kingdoms were ruled in all but name by the bastard sorcerer men called Bloodraven.

Yeah, see, no love between Greyjoy and Stark back in the day or recently, clearly. So, I don’t get it.

Also, re: “Bloodraven”, my Bat-memory sense is tingling… This was the dude from the Dunk and Egg stories, yeah? I seem to recall making fun of his name. But I unfortunately remember very little else about him at this juncture, so, um.

The interlude with Abel’s companion Rowan trying to interrogate Theon was… suspicious. There’s a sneakier reason for wanting to know how someone infiltrated a supposedly impregnable fortress than for snappy song lyrics, is all I’m saying. Like, so maybe you could try to do it again, for instance. Abel: a mole for Stannis? Maaaaybe.

Born and bred in the riverlands, the Freys had never seen a snow like this. The north has already claimed three of their blood, Theon thought, recalling the men that Ramsay had searched for fruitlessly, lost between White Harbor and Barrowton.

Well, at least Manderly did some good.

Gods do not weep. Or do they?

Aw, Bran. No, I imagine you’re not seeing much to be happy about via TreeVision™ these days. Or ever. Sorry, kiddo.

 

Chapter 42: The King’s Prize

What Happens

Asha Greyjoy rides in chains with the baggage of Stannis’s army as they leave Deepwood Motte for Winterfell, one hundred leagues away. The knights assure each other they will make the march in fifteen days, though one asserts Robert would have done it in ten, and Asha observes that Stannis still lives in his brother’s shadow. Just as her father had, she’d chosen submission and life over defiance and certain death, and bent the knee to Stannis. He had allowed her and her remaining men to live, but Asha senses no true mercy in him. She thinks him a fool for considering her a hostage of any worth either to his allies or to the ironborn, but she does not bother to try to explain that to him, for she knows he would not listen to a woman anyway.

She is guarded by Lady Alysane Mormont, whom she thinks of as “the She-Bear,” and by Ser Justin Massey, one of Stannis’s “Queen’s Men.” Asha knows Massey and many of the southron lords opposed this march, suggesting they winter at Deepwood, but the northern lords will not hear of leaving Winterfell and Lady Arya in the hands of the Boltons one moment longer than necessary, and Stannis eventually ruled in their favor. Massey is exceedingly solicitous to Asha, and Alysane observes that he wants her. Asha replies that he wants the Iron Islands through her, but judges that her uncle Euron would eat Justin Massey for breakfast. And the Islands would never be hers anyway now that she has been defeated twice.

They make good time at first, and Asha campaigns to be let out of the chains and given a horse, but to no avail. She talks with Alysane, trying to make common cause with a fellow woman warrior, but Alysane has not forgotten the depredations of the ironborn on her House, and Asha gives up. She observes the worship of R’hllor, and knows that religion considers her god a demon, and that they would be glad to burn her as an infidel had Stannis not forbade it. She tries appealing directly to Stannis, offering her loyalty, but she makes the mistake of mentioning Robert, and Stannis dismisses her.

On the fourth day it begins to snow, and does not stop. The northerners handle it easily at first, but the southron troops begin to flag and suffer. They begin losing wagons, horses and men, and Asha hears the queen’s men muttering about offering sacrifices to R’hllor, but Stannis again forbids it. Their supplies of food and firewood dwindle, and unrest and fighting begins breaking out among the common troops. They press on, and by the twentieth day Asha is obliged to leave the comfort of her prison wagon and walk herself. By the thirty-second day they are out of vegetables and grains, and the lords are turning on each other. Finally they find an abandoned village with a watchtower between two lakes, where they stop for the night to fish and rest. Stannis says they will march at first light, but there is no call to prepare to march the next morning.

The snow was still falling, even more heavily than when she’d crawled inside the tent. The lakes had vanished, and the woods as well. She could see the shapes of other tents and lean-tos and the fuzzy orange glow of the beacon fire burning atop the watchtower, but not the tower itself. The storm had swallowed the rest.

Somewhere ahead Roose Bolton awaited them behind the walls of Winterfell, but Stannis Baratheon’s host sat snowbound and unmoving, walled in by ice and snow, starving.

Commentary

Jeez, I’m beginning to feel like there are more epithet chapter titles in this book than there are regular ones.

So, summer is in full humid icky mosquito-y swing where I am, but damn if I didn’t feel cold reading this chapter anyway. Let’s go ahead and add “forced march in a snowstorm” to the list of things I would like to never do ever, mmkay?

Look, I want Jeyne rescued and the Boltons slaughtered as bad as anyone (probably more than most, at that), but this is just cuckoo bananas. What’s the point of insisting on marching to battle when the cost is going to be “all your available troops, and probably also you”? Maybe Robert would have magically done it better, but I don’t see how.

Speaking of which, way to let your fraternal inadequacy issues get in the way of rational decision making, Stannis. I get that it must be annoying as all get-out to constantly be compared to your older brother and found wanting, but that’s no reason to lead mumble-thousand troops into the Ninth Circle of Hell (which as you know, Dante Bob, was frozen, rather than the more typically pictured fire and brimstone and etc.). I’m just saying, that is probably not actually going to improve your reputation vis-à-vis Elder Bro.

But on the upside, you might not live to care, so maybe it doesn’t matter! Hurray!

Also, Abel: Maaaaybe not Stannis’s mole? Because you’d think that if Stannis were actually going to try recreating Theon’s infiltration of Winterfell, he’d do that first, before getting all death-march-y with his entire force. Sheesh.

This southron king seemed to be one of those men to whom women are another race, as strange and unfathomable as giants and grumkins and the children of the forest.

Ah, yes, that good old “women are from Venus” essentialism. I am not a fan of that theory, let’s just say—mostly because it seems to promote exactly the mindset Asha is talking about here.

I’ve met guys like that, both online and in real life. Not all of them are galloping misogynists—some are just socially challenged in general (as in, all people are kind of alien to them, not just women), and others take it to a place of pseudo-scientific fascination with and/or idealization/idolization of women. The latter of which is problematic for its own reasons, obviously, but is overall preferable to the condescension, fear, or hatred it seems to generate in the rest.

In this particular case, Stannis definitely falls into the “condescension” category, and maybe a bit of the “fear” one as well. It would be surprising that Melisandre managed to get past this problem of his, but then I guess when someone comes up and tells you “OMG YOU ARE LIKE ACTUAL ASOIAF JESUS,” you can find it in you to generously look past the presence of Dreaded Lady Parts in them. JUST THIS ONCE.

It was Morgan who had almost slain Asha in the fight by Deepwood Motte. He had come to her later, on the march, to beg her pardon […] for calling her cunt in his battle lust, not for trying to split her head open with an axe.

Heh. Maybe it’s weird, but I find that totally gratifying and decent of him. You know, relatively speaking.


And… yeah, the rest is mainly cold, and death, and then some more cold and some more death (a theme I sense is going to be Big This Winter), so I’ll stop here and get me some highly unseasonal hot chocolate. And then I’ll see YOU next Thursday! Yay!

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Leigh Butler

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9 years ago

Bloodraven quick refresher – Brynden Rivers.  One of the so-called Great Bastards, born of the King and a Blackwood noblewoman (the only southern house who worships the Old Gods).  Rumored to be a sorcerer.  Served as Hand to the King, later sent to the Wall and became its Lord Commander.  Mentioned many times in Dunk and Egg and throughout the principal text. 

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9 years ago

You know who Abel is, Leigh.  He IS a mole, and kinda for Stannis, though Stannis doesn’t know it.  (Roll over to read)

I agree Lady Dustin’s anger at Ned is just ludicrous, and her description of Brandon make him sound like SUCH a prince.  But, there is something to her anger, I can’t fault her for it.

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9 years ago

Abel – I won’t spoil but RAFO.  There are pieces to be put together but this man won’t do it. 

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9 years ago

The woman as Other thing I find very annoying, especially when it leads to the Women are Incorruptible Beings of Pure Pureness mentality. Like, just let me live my life away from this pedestal, thanks.  Also, you (men) can be pure (perhaps not incorruptibly pure) too! We don’t really have a monopoly on any particular character trait or virtue.

I forgot about the cunt apology. That is definitely gentlemanly by ASOIAF standards.

I actually consider Stannis of the ‘poor social skills’ type – I don’t get the impression he understands many people…

 

 

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9 years ago

Leigh, you summer child, all this cold and death is happening during Autumn, still. As the Northern lords were pointing out to Stannis’ men, it’s technically still fall in the Seven Kingdoms (though it seems like Winter doth approach soon). 

The Theon chapter is one of the easiest Theon chapters to take, relatively speaking, as we got very little of the sick Ramsey moments. Lady Dustin’s story seems rather peripheral, but there are some interesting nuggets of info about Ned and his siblings, and the history of the North in general. 

It’s really a shame you don’t remember Bloodraven, I think you’d find it quite edifying if you brushed up on him. 

I also really liked Middle Liddle coming up to Asha and apologizing for calling her a cunt. 

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Wil
9 years ago

I don’t think I knew before that Theon was actually named after a Stark. That’s… odd. Why would Balon Greyjoy name his son after a Stark?

He didn’t. There have been at least three Ironborn kings named Theon Greyjoy: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Theon_III_Greyjoy . The Iron Islands are very close to the North, so there are a few points where their cultures intermingle.

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9 years ago

: Lisamarie, I assure you that whatever else we men are, or might be, “pure” is not in it :)

“Men are pigs” did not enter the vernacular for no reason <<sigh>>

 

Regards,

zdrakec

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9 years ago

Hi Leigh! Been a longtime lurker and appreciators of this re-read and finally decided to comment. A great job so far!

Regarding Lady Dustin, who’s actually one of my favourite minor characters of the book, while I’m sure that the missed marriage(s) inform her general animosity against the Starks, I think that the decision to mistreat Ned’s bones has more to do with Ned leaving her husband’s body back in Dorne, a continent away,while taking care of bringing his sister’s remains home. (And interrin her and Brandon among the Lords and Kings of Winterfell, which is technically against the rules). 

As for Theon, I don’t think he’s supposed to be named after a Stark. Confusingly, Martin appears to use namesake also as another word for omonym  (maybe an English-speaker can tell me if that’s an acceptable use of the term?). Both Northerners and Ironorn are remnants of First Men culture, so it’s not surprising they share names. 

Oh,  and I was sure you were going to comment about Middle Liddle and his own take on gallantry. That passage always makes me smile. 

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Aumanor
9 years ago

Another chapter of Stannis being Stannis. But I don’t consider that an entirely bad thing- Stannis, to me, is on e of the most fascinating characters- not necessarily a good person, mind it, but definitely an interesting one. And amusing to read to, with his signature dry wit despite being considered a completely humourless man.

‘And Godry the Giant Slayer said, “The old gods of the north have sent this stormupon us. Only R’hllor can end it.We must give them an unbeliever.”

“Half my army is made up of unbelievers. Pray Harder.”‘

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9 years ago

Not a bad theory regarding Abel.   We shall see…

maybe.

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9 years ago

@7 – I guess somebody should tell my husband that. Ooops.

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Amy Bisson
9 years ago

My current reread of the series has now officially passed your read of it. Last night when I was going to read your commentary on the chapters I had just read, I decided to look at your summary of the next chapter so I could decide if I wanted to squeeze that one in before bed, only to find that you hadn’t gotten there yet. ;)

 

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9 years ago

RE: Morgan- splitting someone’s head open with an axe is business.  Calling that person a c-word is personal. 

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9 years ago

When I read this book it was the middle of a very cold winter – damn I felt it. 

Theon noticing the missing swords – made me think of the scene in First Blood where everyone thinks Rambo is dead except Trautman who just looks thoughtful. 

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9 years ago

The Liddles and other rural Northerners are cool.  It was nice small bit back in ACOK (?) when Bran, Hodor and the Reeds ran into a Liddle in a cave while going North, and he gave them food and good advice re staying off the main roads.  Very fun.  They’ve remained cool since then during the Stannis cross country trek.

Agree that Theon is named after an Iron Born with the same name rather than a Stark. 

@14 – yeah for the on point First Blood reference.  Exactly that.

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9 years ago

Leigh, thank you again for this week’s post.  Also, thank you to my fellow commentarians on this thread.  It probably doesn’t seem like all that much in the grand scheme of things but I look forward to Thursdays with ridiculous anticipation.  It makes my week to read these diverse posts.  Where else can one get “Pippi Longstocking” and “First Blood” in the same dialogue?

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bookworm1398
9 years ago

So, Lady Dustin vs. Littlefinger. Two stories of Young Love Lost.

At least, Lady Dustin has not transferred her attentions to the next generation. 

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9 years ago

@15: It’s interesting that the clans haven’t bothered to tell Stannis that Bran is alive, even though they’ve accepted his leadership.  Very protective of those Starks, they are.

No comments about the Mormont women shapeshifting and mating with bears?  That certainly explains Jorah’s hairiness.

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9 years ago

@16 – “Where else can one get “Pippi Longstocking” and “First Blood” in the same dialogue?”  Perhaps a Scandinavian health text on the facts of life….? 

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@19, a whole new spin on the concept of what it means to be a blooded warrior I guess.

Kato

Landstander
9 years ago

Why is Lady Dustin confiding in Theon? This isn’t the first time, either. She must know he’s completely broken by Ramsay, so that ending promise is meaningless. Does she want the Boltons to know what she said? And if so, to what end? Maybe I’m overthinking this.

@8: Here’s the quote:

[Big Bucket Wull says] “Aye, men are dying. More will die before we see Winterfell. What of it? This is war. Men die in war. That is as it should be. As it has always been.”
     Ser Corliss Penny gave the clan chief an incredulous look. “Do you want to die, Wull?”
     That seemed to amuse the northman. “I want to live forever in a land where the summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter.
     “Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

It got a little creepy in the end there, but it’s still a nice passage. I want a castle in the clouds too.

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9 years ago

@11: He knows. He most definitely knows :)

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9 years ago

Double feature: The Kraken in Winter. Yes, spellchecker, “kraken” is a word and I do not mean “brakemen.”

The Wolfswood Death March is a little bit like the Red Wedding — on every reread, as the characters head into it, I go “Nooo, don’t do it!”

*follows link* Boy, is Dante’s Hell a complicated place. The Third Circle sounds pretty cold as well, though I don’t think the characters are there, except possibly milord Wyman. (Of course Gluttony is the Third Circle. Of course. *giggle*)

Alys Mormont is great. It’s so rare to see any of ASOIAF’s many warrior women actually meet each other, aside from the Sand Snakes, that I enjoyed her talk with Asha even if they’re separated by their peoples’ enmity.

@17: Yess. Now I’m trying to imagine them having a companionable Ned-Stark-bashing gripe session, though it would go sour if (when) Barbrey insulted Catelyn or Littlefinger insulted Brandon. He would probably scorn the pettiness of her “revenge” compared to his successful warmongering, and she would…find something cruel to say about him.

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9 years ago

@13

RE: Morgan- splitting someone’s head open with an axe is business.  Calling that person a c-word is personal. 

I think I’ve probably referenced it before, but that just puts me in mind of In Bruges:

KEN: Harry, let’s face it, and I’m not being funny and I mean no disrespect, but you’re a cunt. You’re a cunt now, you’ve always been a cunt, and the only thing that’s  going to change is you’re going to be an even bigger cunt. And maybe have some more cunt kids.

HARRY: Leave my kids fucking out of it! What have they done? You retract that bit about my cunt fucking kids.

KEN: I retract that bit about your cunt fucking kids.

HARRY: Insulting my fucking kids! That’s going overboard, mate!

KEN: I’ve retracted it, haven’t I? 

 

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Shmedricko
9 years ago

You don’t necessarily have to be named after something for it to be considered your namesake:

Namesake is a term used to characterize a person, place, thing, quality, action, state, or idea that has the same, or a similar, name to another – especially (but not exclusively) if the person or thing is actually named after another, rather than merely sharing the name of another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namesake

:  one that has the same name as another; especially:  one who is named after another or for whom another is named

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/namesake

1. a person named after another.
2. a person having the same name as another.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/namesake

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9 years ago

@19 RobMRobM – Very creative!  

dwcole
9 years ago

I understand the hatred of treating women as another race/species, but we should remember there are differences between the sexes.  Now as we are talking about averages they are pretty much useless most of the time.  Aka average woman may be weaker than average man but yeah tells you nothing about this man and this woman.  Sure as hell are many many women who are stronger than me…

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9 years ago

The weeping is Jeyne, not Bran. Other people hear her weeping, too, and aren’t happy about it.

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9 years ago

re: Ramsay Snow Funeral Parade 

And then GRRM goes ahead, kills him off gruesomely and makes us feel sorry for the guy. Just you wait. I certainly wouldn’t put it past him, and if anyone can pull it off, it’s Mr. I’ll-make-you-like-Jaime-Lannister-after-Operation-Defenestration..

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Sean M
9 years ago

southern ambitions

This tiny phrase ends up having huge implications when you re-analyze all of the events leading up to Robert’s Rebellion. We’re so used to thinking of marriages as being between two people that we forget that in this world, every marriage is a political alliance. Lyanna was more important than you’ve been lead to believe

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9 years ago

I’ve never read the Dunk and Egg stories, so I paid no special attention to the name Bloodraven. So seeing you mention it here surprised me, as I’ve since read about him on the ASOIAF Wiki (although I suggest you stay away from that page as there are spoilers; if you want a refresher you might just want to read those stories again).

 

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9 years ago

Bloodraven is really interesting.  A Targ-Old Gods mix, a rumored sorcerer with “a Thousand Eyes and One” (whatever that means), warrior who chose the Targ side rather than the rebel side chosen by other the Great Bastards, Hand to a Targ King, exiled by another King (Egg’s father) to the Wall, Lord Commander there, etc. 

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HeySwanSong
9 years ago

@17 to be fair, she thinks all the Stark boys are dead at this point. There’s still a possibility open for her to out-creep even Baelish once Rickon re-emerges (ok, not very likely but still…)

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Sean M
9 years ago

@31 Dunk and Egg is an awesome read if you’re caught up with the series. GIves a great impression of what Westeros was like 100 years before Robert’s Rebellion.

 

@32 “thousand eyes and one” is a reference to (roll over for spoilers) both Bloodraven’s partial blindness and the fact that he warg’d into the weirwood trees and created a network of spies more impressive than Littlefinger or Varys. He was an incredibly good at knowing what the other houses were doing, and because of his connection to “sorcery” the child-rhyme implies that it’s magic. But they don’t understand what it actually is

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9 years ago

@32 RobM- Tiny correction:Egg himself imprisoned Bloodraven, then later  sent him to the wall (along with Aemon). Egg’s father Maekar kept Bloodraven as Hand to the King. 

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9 years ago

Good catch, MDNY, thanks. 

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DougL
9 years ago

@35 Not sure how long he spent there though. He did effectively end a huge threat to the realm, but like Tywin just didn’t understand that without honour, no peace can ever be made. Nobody would trust Bloodraven after that.

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Drunken5yearold
9 years ago

@32: Bloodraven was supposed to have spies everywhere (a thousand eyes). However, he only had one, since he lost one at some point (during the Blackfyre rebellion I think?). So it’s just sort of a dry joke, that he has “a thousand eyes and one”.

I always thought Bloodraven was just a little too indulgent of Martin. He’s Awesome McAwesome in a way that Martin didn’t allow any other character in his story to be (except maybe Jon Snow).

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Drunken5yearold
9 years ago

@34: Is that confirmed somewhere or just speculation?

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Sean M
9 years ago

@39

I think just speculation? Given Bran’s experiences in ADWD, it’s assuming Bloodraven can do the same things only controlled. It’s what makes the most sense. So, speculation, in the same way that R+L=J is speculation. (Roll over to read.)

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biropg
9 years ago

Theon Stark, the hungry wolf. famous for always being at war with someone and for always winning his wars.

defeated the final andal invasion of the north by making common cause with the kings of the dreadfort to oust the technologicly superior forces of the invading andals at the white knife.

he then built a massive fleet, sailed with his army to the homelands of the andals, killed about half the population, cut of their heads, took them back home and mounted them on pikes all along the eastern coast of the north as a warning to future invaders. it worked rather well and there would not be another andal invader until stannis baratheon.

he was also at war with the ironborn at various points. most notably he took back all coastland that his predcessesors had lost to the reavers and killing the ironborn’s royal heir at the time in personal combat.

he was also one of the many northern kings that invaded the three sisters(currently part of the vale) to put an end to/take revenge for the reaving and raping the islanders has commited against the north. wether he was the first king that invaded the isles(and therby being the one who lead the event known as “the rape of three sisters”) is unknown.

however given that Belthasar Bolton was said to be one of the invaders, it seems likely, as the boltons were not actually vassals to the stark until sometime after the first invasion of the isles. given that theon had allied with the boltons before, it seems likely that they also joined forces with him to put an end to the pirates of the sisters.

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9 years ago

@33: Also, she wanted Brandon more than Ned. If Brandon had lived to marry Catelyn, and had a son reminiscent of himself…who knows.

@34: Whoa. (roll over to read) /// It hadn’t occurred to me that BR was warging weirwoods before he went to the Childrens’ Cave. I guess I assumed he had some other form of possibly-sorcerous spy network while Hand.///

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9 years ago

Bloodraven probably warged ravens, that fits his name.

ed_mcn
9 years ago

Hi Leigh! Loooong time reader, first time commenter. I want to thank you so, so much for providing this wealth of supplementary ASOIAF material. For the last couple years, you helped make my experience of the series that much more rich, wonky, wondrous, and alive. Kudos.  

It’s so great that these two chapters both take place in the North, only miles apart, on two opposing sides of a pending battle. And both sides are wondering what the other’s up to. These are amazing moments for the reader, when we get to be taken from one vantage point to the other. Reminds me of some other really good duo chapters. (Bran in the tower, Jon on the ground. Remember that boom bang symmetry from ASOS?)

Theon’s arc in this novel is probably my favourite of any character in the series. He’s twisted up inside, and you feel him unwinding with every chapter.

On my first read, I really grazed over the Lady Dustin bits. She just seemed kind of irrelevant, and yeah, like you said, shut up you bitter old whiner. But the more I get to know her, the more fascinating she becomes. Her motivations are so complex.

I know the dick/sword thing made you roll your eyes… but come on!!  “A bloody sword is a beautiful thing.” That’s the type of perverse one-liner I’ve come to love and expect from this series.

Re: Abel… What’s with this dude who just showed up completely uninvited with a bunch of nosey washer-women?

Last thing I want to mention is that it is incredible how you are covering chapters that directly coincide with major themes erupting in the show right now. Makes me want to scream. Yet I am so, so happy that you have not watched the show and are actively avoiding all talk about it (as I’ve heard you profess a few times.) Please keep it up. Remaining unsullied is an honour and a burden, but I am here to say that I support you every step of the way.

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9 years ago

Another member of the “I hate the Stark boys cuz they didn’t marry me” club inducted. Between Lady Dustin and Catelyn’s sister Lisa, it sounds like the Stark boys were rock stars in the ASOIAF world and collecting maidenheads instead of notches in the headboard.. That and Catelyn was nothing but a trollop breaking hearts. 

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9 years ago

@46: When did Lysa ever have a thing for a Stark? She was into Littlefinger. Are you maybe thinking of Ashara Dayne?

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Roxana
7 years ago

I too find Morgan’s apology decent as well as funny as all heck. Trying to kill Asha was totally appropriate behavior given they met in a battle, shouting sexual slurs was however NOT appropriate in that situation or any other. Full credit to Morgan for realizing that.