Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week, Shallan attained a new level in her Lightweaving. This week, she uses her new skills to survive a meeting with the Ghostbloods.
This week, the reread will absolutely contain minor spoilers for several other Cosmere book that are relevant to the discussion, as well as the entirety of The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. I’ll put in extra warnings in the blog so you can avoid them if you wish, but there may also be spoilers scattered through the comments. Where possible, it would be ducky if everyone could white out their spoilers, but the best-laid plans gang aft a-gley, as they say. Be warned.
The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here. Click on through to join the discussion!
Chapter 43: The Ghostbloods
Point of View: Shallan
Setting: Sebarial’s Warcamp
Symbology: Pattern, Palah, Joker
IN WHICH Shallan goes adventuring as a darkeyes, and finds it freeing; she nevertheless manages to make herself conspicuous by behaving in ways inconsistent with her disguise; she sets Pattern to watch her back for anyone following, then leaps in fright when he reports; she successfully finds the meeting place—and a lot of strangeness; despite her nervousness, she manages a few nice bits of snark; she holds a very cautious conversation with a man called Mraize who appears to be the local leader; his companions are a peculiar lot, as are the apparent trophies on display; she receives an assignment for “Tyn”: to find out what Amaram is hiding; she is dismissed, and takes Memories of those present on her way out; she is followed by the strangest of the company, and slips her tail by a panicked Lightweaving of a wall; she finally returns to her rooms in Sebarial’s manor, and finds herself flushed with the thrill of her adventure.
Quote of the Week
The guard nodded toward an opening in the wall, and Shallan stared into the blackness there. Steps. Down.
Storms, what am I doing?
Not being timid. That was what she was doing. Shallan glanced at the brutish guard and raised an eyebrow, forcing her voice to sound calm. “You really went all-out on the decor. How long did you have to look to find a den in the Shattered Plains that had a creepy staircase in it?”
The guard actually smiled. It didn’t make him look any less intimidating.
I… don’t really have anything to say about that. I just liked it. Snark under pressure, FTW!
Commentary
Oh, Shallan, you’re so naïve sometimes. She’s so happy to be inconspicuous, and laughs at herself when she realizes that as a darkeyes, she can’t expect people to get out of her way… and then she nonchalantly pulls out an emerald mark to pay for something that costs a single clearchip. Oops.
But she is becoming more self-aware:
She had business to be about. Part of her didn’t want to go forward with it, obviously, and her mind was trying to distract her. She was becoming increasingly aware of this defense of hers. She used it, she needed it, but she couldn’t let it control her life.
This is an improvement! In fact, it’s a huge step: recognizing your defense mechanisms and then having enough self-discipline to choose not to do the thing that has been your only mental protection for many years… it’s huge.
There’s a quick hint here relating to something we talked about a while back—that the warcamps are built on the ruins of something else. The tenement in which she meets the Ghostbloods has not one, but two basement levels, in a place where most buildings don’t bother with eminently-floodable basements. The only question now is whether these cellars are left from the time when this was all part of the nation of Natanatan, or whether they are of more recent construction by the Parshendi.
Most of my comments on the Ghostbloods themselves will be in a section below, but here I have to note the reference to a flashback scene we haven’t got to yet: the bit where Shallan thinks that the man standing with his back to her (which turns out to be Mraize) reminds her of “the messenger” from her childhood. Coming soon to a reread near you…
She handles herself well in this meeting. While she may resemble jello on the inside, the outside impression is a combination of Jasnah’s self-confidence and Tyn’s boldness. Most importantly, it works; Mraize (and presumably Iyatil) find her plausible and clever, even though she misjudged their readiness to meet with “Tyn’s apprentice.” He’d simply agreed to it with the expectation of killing her and then hunting down Tyn, with or without any information she could provide. That’s cold, dude.
And so, having more or less favorably impressed the Ghostbloods, Shallan is allowed to give herself a name and receive a new assignment. (I still wonder about her choice of “Veil” as a pseudonym, because she articulates no reason for that choice. Well, either it doesn’t matter, or we’ll learn later. Looks like she’s going to have an ongoing relationship with these creepy people.) The assignment will prove interesting on several levels, but we’ll get to that in a future chapter when she manages to infiltrate Amaram’s household for a bit. For now, he’s just a name and an assignment—and an opportunity to prove herself.
There are a lot of little hints in this chapter, connecting the Ghostbloods to much, much wider Cosmere significance. (So much so, in fact, that it really makes me wonder just what they’re up to. I’m pretty sure they don’t care one clearchip about a single person on Roshar, but they do care about the conflict with Odium. The question is, which side are they on?) To keep it “clean,” I put all the Worldhopping and varied Investiture facts & speculations into “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?” Nothing in there is a plot-significant spoiler for any of the existing books, but there are a lot of Invested items from other worlds. If that kind of tidbit irritates you, you’ll want to skip a large chunk at “Haven’t We Met?” and go on down to the “Heraldic Symbolism.”
Stormwatch
Still going.
Sprenspotting
Aside from Pattern, we only see some fearspren wriggling up around Shallan while Mraize tries various ways to induce her to reveal Tyn’s whereabouts. Useless, annoying, traitorous little beasties, some of these spren. Pattern, by contrast, is useful, entertaining, and eminently loyal, if occasionally startling.
Ars Arcanum
Lightweaving is very useful indeed, especially when you can look like part of the wall. Very handy for getting rid of someone following you, though you sure don’t want to run out of Stormlight in the middle of it. On consideration, I think the most chancy part of Lightweaving disguises is that you have to carry a small fortune on you all the time—even when you’re in a disguise that shouldn’t carry more than a pittance. But then, I guess that’s true for any Surgebinder; it would be chancy to run out of Stormlight when you’re a few hundred feet above the ground, too.
Ars Mechanica
This chapter only has one fabrial (that I noticed), and it’s one I’d dearly love to possess. It’s a little gizmo that gathers the smoke from the fireplace and just winds it up like thread on a spool. Sweet.
Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?
Oh, I have been looking forward to this chapter for a long time. I’m going to tuck all the off-world references (objects included) into this one section, so anyone who wants to avoid spoilers can just skip over it and go read about the Heraldic Symbolism. MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD. You stand warned.
I don’t honestly know how many of these people are actual Worldhoppers, and I haven’t identified all of the objects, but I’ll list all of them, and speculate when I don’t know. Surprise.
The people: The Horneater guard, Mraize, the rat-toothed man, the creepy woman with the carapace mask, and four nondescript “other people.”
The Horneater I’m inclined to take at face value, given his way of speaking; he talks like Rock. Rat-tooth seems like he ought to be recognizable if we’d ever seen him before, but I don’t remember him, so I’ll take him for a Rosharan native. Any other suggestions?
Mraize—which appears to be a title rather than a name—is a confirmed Worldhopper, but I’ve seen no proof of his planet of origin. He might be Rosharan; he uses terms like “babsk” very readily. I’ve seen speculation that he’s Thaylen based on that alone, but given the lack of eyebrow mentioning I doubt it. He might be someone we’ve met elsewhere, though the only person I can think of that might fit his appearance is Clamps (from Alloy of Law), and he doesn’t really seem the type. In fact, the only similarities I can point to are that each is heavily scarred, and each is willing to kill anyone who proves to be inconvenient. Not much to bet the rent money on.
Iyatil, the creepy woman with the carapace mask, is certainly a world-hopper… but I don’t know who she is. She’s short, tan-skinned, darkeyed, and has an affinity for carapace, whatever that proves. It’s described as “red-orange” similar to the Parshendi “orange-red” – is she using actual Parshendi carapace? The way it’s described (“it looked like the skin had started to grow around the edges of the mask somehow”) almost makes me wonder if she is Parshendi, but of a form (or tribe) we’ve not yet seen. Perhaps, being a Worldhopper, she’s an ancient Parshendi who has been elsewhere and has returned? We do have this rather cryptic WoB:
Well, that’s kind of a hard thing to say. She has three planets she’s “from”. For example, she’s living now on Roshar, but then she’s from a different planet, but that’s not the planet that her people are from.
So probably not a Parshendi, but she might share roots with them… or something… Oy.
The objects: Several enormous (un-infused) gemhearts; vaguely-recognizable shells; a tusk “probably from a whitespine;” an eye socket that looks like it might have belonged to a santhid; a vial of pale sand; a couple of thick hairpins; a lock of golden hair; the branch of a tree with writing on it; a silver knife; an odd flower preserved in solution; a chunk of delicate, flaky crystal. Quite the assortment, and most of them seem to be Invested—or at least capable of being Invested.
The gemhearts, to be that big, must come from an extraordinary species. Could these be the gemhearts of some of the Tai-na? That would be… kind of awful. Likewise, the (partial) santhid skull – though a little less awful because we already know that the occasional dead santhid has washed up on shore. What are the implications, though, of having a santhid skull in this collection?
The shells and the tusk just don’t give us enough to go on, though I wonder what would make a whitespine tusk sufficiently notable to be included. Are whitespines more significant than I thought, or is she wrong about the source? Skipping ahead a bit, I can’t yet identify the branch with writing on it, though I think I should. Any thoughts?
A vial of pale sand: this is absolutely Invested sand, from the planet Taldain (in the as-yet unpublished novel White Sand). Note that this is also the planet of origin for “Blunt” (of the Ishikk Interlude) and Khriss (the woman who knows more about the Cosmere than Hoid). We don’t know what the Shard there is, but the fact that the sand is pale means it is actively Invested.
A couple of thick hairpins: I can’t find WoB on this, but I’m reasonably confident these are actually Hemalurgic spikes. Ick. I wonder if they’re Invested – and if so, with what?
A lock of golden hair: This could be from several different locations; it’s been significant here on Roshar (the Iri have golden hair, and some consider it lucky), on Sel (royal individuals both in Elantris and in The Emperor’s Soul), and then on Nalthis there are the royal locks from Warbreaker. Could be anything!
A silver knife: Best guess, this is from Threnody (Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell). Silver is extremely important there, and a silver knife invaluable.
An odd flower preserved in some kind of solution: IMO, this is obviously the flower known as Tears of Edgli from Nalthis (Warbreaker), which are related to Endowment; they give the best dyes, thus being very helpful in Awakening.
That chunk of pale pink crystal: I think it’s from Aether of Night, and I hope I don’t get too much fetch for saying that. Another unpublished book, but in this case IIRC Brandon doesn’t intend to publish it; he may rework it later in a completely different form, or just borrow all the good bits to use elsewhere.
Maybe the branch-with-writing-on-it is from Yolen? It would make a certain amount of sense.
Heraldic Symbolism
This is an interesting pair: Palah and the Joker. Palah, associated with the role of Scholar and the attributes of Learned and Giving, patron of the Truthwatchers. Are the Ghostbloods aligned, or opposing? And the Joker… I can’t help connecting that masked face with the masked woman in the chapter. She’s a wild card if ever I saw one.
The chapter title couldn’t possibly be more obvious.
Words of Radiants
And thus were the disturbances in the Revv toparchy quieted, when, upon their ceasing to prosecute their civil dissensions, Nalan’Elin betook himself to finally accept the Skybreakers who had named him their master, when initially he had spurned their advances and, in his own interests, refused to countenance that which he deemed a pursuit of vanity and annoyance; this was the last of the Heralds to admit to such patronage.
—From Words of Radiance, chapter 5, page 17
Nalan strikes me as an arrogant sort. I’m trying to figure out how someone who seems to be so haughty and egocentric ends up with the role of Judge. I’m also still trying to parse this moderately convoluted sentence.
Shipping Wars
Just one little note, at the very end of the chapter, when Shallan is considering the tasks ahead of her: the one involving Adolin is certainly the most appealing!
There. That ought to keep us busy until next week, when Kaladin returns to the practice grounds to take up Zahel’s offer of training. And it will finally be a different day.
Alice Arneson is a long-time Tor.com commenter and Sanderson beta-reader. With Sasquan 2015 only nine weeks away, it’s not too late to become a member—or even join the staff! There are rumors of especially good Con Suite and Staff Den provisioning; possibly even bacon chocolate chip cookies. Look for Wetlander at Registration—she’d really like to meet you there.
Agree on the sources of some of the more interesting items in the collection including the pink crystal.
I usually associate the Joker with Wit, who has a theoretical connection with this group in many ways.
The collection of items makes me think of Robert Jordan’s habit of sprinkling relics from ages past around fancy buildings. With that in mind, I thought the tusk might be from an elephant before I remembered Earth isn’t in the Cosmere :p
So the tusk and eye socket might be from creatures similar to a whitespine and santhid and Shallan is just making a best guess based on the fauna she’s familiar with. Also, Roshar would otherwise be overrepresented in this collection, which would offend my classical sensibilities. Not that that’s anything like an effective argument, but still.
Do worldhoppers have a longer lifespan than the average populace of a worldhopper’s home planet? (In the same way that a channeler has a longer lifespan than a non-channeler in Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series.)
Alice, I think that she chose the name Veil as a pun. Veil is a cover that goes over her true personage, Shallon. Much the same way that a veil covers a person’s face. Such wordplay would be within Shallon’s character. She is quite fond of such wordplay.
Do we ever find out whether the blowgun is a weapon native to Roshar? The answer to that question may provide a clue as to the home world of either Mraize or Iyatil. Mraize (and IIRC Iyatil as well) is very proficient with the blowgun.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
WinespringBrother @1 – I normally think of the masked-man icon as Wit, but Peter reminded me at one point that sometimes it’s him, but sometimes it’s there for a wildcard element, like a Joker. The more I think about it, though, the more I think maybe instead of Iyatil, the Ghostbloods en masse are the wildcard element here. They apparently represent off-world interests, and they’re here interfering in Roshar’s battle against the Desolations/Odium. (The same could be said of Hoid, of course; he flat-out told Dalinar somewhere that if he thought other purposes would best be served by letting Roshar implode, he’d stand by and let it happen.) But I have to wonder what effects their meddling will have on Roshar.
noblehunter @2 – I know what you mean about the classical sensibilities! That’s probably the biggest reason I’m less sure than Shallan about the “whitespine” tusk, and even the santhid skull. I don’t have any other reference for them, though; perhaps Roshar is over-represented because they’re still sorting through the local artifacts to determine which are important.
I’m really curious to see what the rest of you make of the golden hair, the branch, and the knife.
I’m more interested in the name that Mraize gives her than the one she has given herself. He starts to call her ‘little knife’ which suggests an assassin rather than a thief. I wonder why.
My theory on the “Veil” pseudonym was that it related to the “veil” entryway into the Palanaeum. The veil is the entryway to knowledge and this disguise is Shallan’s way to gain information??
Another point is that Shallan is the epitome of an unreliable narrator. That’s literally her superpower. Makes me awfully suspicious of looks like and “probably”.
Have we heard of suitable creatures from elsewhere in the Cosmere? Especially Sel, since the hair seems more likely to be from Warbreaker than Elantris.
The branch also sounds familiar. Maybe from Sixth of the Dusk?
This day is basically an episode of 24 minus the torture. We even get the reveal of a new layer of villains.
I can’t remember why, but I have an idea in my head that the Ghostbloods are here to acquire one or more of Roshar’s shards, Saruman style.
@6 I definitely buy that explanation. Also it just sounds cool and secretive.
AndrewHb @3: In the next Mraize chapter, he tells Shallan that it is a Parshendi blowgun and asks her to analyze what that choice of weapon means about the Parshendi. It’s how he discovers that she is trained as a scholar.
There’s a case to be made that Iyatil is Khriss. She fits the basic physical description but the WoB suggests Iyatil was part of some sort of exodus…hard to say.
Branch: is it possible it’s Forged?
Pink Crystal: remember, there are Aether’s on Yolen, too, or there were (Liar of Partinel). That would help with the abandoned Aether of Night situation.
Thanks, Alice, for the rundown on all the artifacts. I like your ideas on each. Now for some random thoughts:
For the golden hair I’d like to believe it comes for the Iri. IIRC there is a WOB that hints they are from a different planet.
Despite the way the Ghostbloods operate, I don’t believe they are villains in the Cosmere.
I think that Iyatil is a pre-odium influenced Parshendi that world-hopped before things went south for her poeple (making her a candidate for the person Hoid’s age that is mentioned later). I don’t think the Parshendi are native to Roshar either.
If I world-hopped from Roshar to Scadrial, spent thirty years thievin with a crew, then world-hopped back to Roshar how much time would have passed on Roshar? Has Brandon said anything about that?
These Cosmere easter-eggs are a big reason I love Sanderson’s work.
For those who haven’t seen Brandon’s latest tweets…
It appears that the next book will be the Dalinar (not Seth) book with working title Oathbringer.
And this time the assassinatio will be from Eshonai’s point of view.
The golden lock of hair… somehow I have always thought it was related to Shshshshshsh… After all, Kaladin thinks she may have been from Iri.
I had never thought of it before, which is why I love these rereads, but perhaps The Ghostbloods are a faction of the 17th Shard. Or maybe they are rival groups? Perhaps an derivative? I don’t know, but it is something to think about. I’ve long since felt The Stormlight Archive is the main stage for all things Cosmere related. A story within a story. Chapters and scenes like this harken towards that idea heavily. The Ghostbloods are definitely an interesting. If the assumption is correct they have off-world aspirations, then they are the first group we know have an impact throughout the Cosmere. .
I almost always assume the Joker chapter icon is Hoid related. I’m not going to say 100% it is, but I feel it is his icon but serves a dual purpose( as it should). Yes the wildcard elemet\nt is in effect here with The Ghostbloods, but there is a reference to Hoid in this chapter.
I lost my mind when I read that line the first time. I knew it had to do with Hoid and was ecstatic there was some connection between him and Shallan.
>Another point is that Shallan is the epitome of an unreliable narrator. That’s literally her superpower. Makes me awfully suspicious of looks like and “probably”.
Her lies are delicious, after all.
I’m convinced that the pink crystal is from Yolen, a la Liar of Partinel (unpublished, and only a few chapters given out when asked). I also believe the hair is Royal Locks from Sel.
@3 AndrewHB and 11 airsicklowlander
IIRC Brandon once said that Hoid’s travels have spanned centuries, but he hasn’t actually lived through all the years. My guess is being a world hopper (assuming the other world hoppers use the same or similar methods to Hoid) is a lot like being The Doctor.
Hoid probably travels through time as well as space, and may not always know exactly where or when he will end up. My guess is the amount of time he spends on any given world just passes normally for him without greatly influencing the length of his next jump one way or the other.
Brandon has stated that his travelling occasionally takes him to some place where he has nothing to do and he ends up just sort of standing around for a while before leaving.
So he may not actually be physically any older than he looks (leaving aside any Yolen-style Light Weaving shenanigans).
I can’t help but feel slightly disappointed. After the emphasized spoiler-warning, I hoped that you might have figured out … more. But basically we still have nothing more than guesses. Nothing (maybe excepting the hair-pins) seems really clearly recognizable from previously published books. I wonder if Brandon is playing with us, because he knows we’ll search all his books for hints.
IIRC the jocker-icon only appears in this chapter without Hoids appearance. The later Ghostblood-heavy chapters don’t, so I don’t think it is for them, but as @14 pointed out for Hoid’s reference (the messenger from Shallan’s childhood).
When Shallan walks the streets (before she arrives at her meeting) she “regrets” that she can’t stop and sketch what she’s seeing. I know this is partly stalling and I know that at the end of the chapter she takes memories of the Ghostbloods, but I still think it odd that she didn’t “Blink” at the earlier scene. She seems to do it a lot less now, than in the beginning.
travyl @18 – I’m oversensitive to spoiler possibilities now, because I’ve discovered that there are people for whom those little snippets would be HORRIBLE BOOKSPOILING TERRIBLE SPOILERS!!!!!! I don’t get it, myself, because to me they don’t spoil anything; knowing about them would just make me recognize them when I read them in the other book, and I’d think it was really cool. But other folks have other strokes, so I’m trying hard to be aware.
What I was really hoping was that we’d somehow figure out Iyatil’s actual identity, but no joy on that so far. :)
Minor Elantris spoilers in white text:
The creepiest possible explanation of the “branch” I’ve seen online is speculation that it is actually a petrified bone of a Dahkor monk (from Elantris/Sel). We have evidence in WoR of Shallan (semi-intentionally?) assuming that some bones in the chasms are actually branches, and we know that Dahkor bones a) are deformed and b) have writing on them. Like I said, creepiest possible explanation, but I could see how it would work. I also think that the hair is Royal Locks from Nalthis.
Since you said the title couldn’t be more obvious, I had to try and think of ways it could be less obvious. On Silence’s world, Ghosts and blood are a deadly mix. I wonder if they see themselves that way or have links to that world? Or if the name has some other, extra meaning?
Speaking of that, the knife could be from Silence’s world, although silver knives are also useful against Mistborn, whose powers won’t effect it. But, is interesting that the leader of the “Ghostbloods,” a name that could imply summoning destructive ghosts, should have a knife handy that could be used to ward off ghosts and that he calls Shallon “little knife.’
Just to add a third (totally random, probably totally wrong) thought, I was trying to think of other things “little knife” could mean. I looked up Latin words for knife (because, like I said, random; also, Latin dimunitives could completely change word meanings). Gladius came up (although that might better translate as sword). Dimunitive would be gladiolus, which means both “little sword/knife” and gladiolus flower.
Here’s where it got kind of interesting. The gladiolus symbolizes strength of character, faithfulness, and honor, all qualities Shallan has. It can also represent remembrance, which is part of Shallan’s artistic “super-power” in the memories she takes.
Probably nothing. I just thought I’d pass it on.
I like to think (and this is almost certainly wrong) that the Ghostbloods work for Harmony and Iyatil is a Kandra.
When you called him ‘The Joker’, I had a sudden thought that his appearing at the start of the chapter was a meta reference to Batman. The Ghostbloods are, essentially, the cult-like type of Batman villain, after all.
Also, the vial of Sand is for an Occulator lens. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it! You cannot convince me that Alcatraz is not the Cosmere version of Earth!
Re: Shipping Wars
I can’t be the only one to see the possibility of Shallan/Mraize right? I mean it’s not a relationship that would hit people over the head with it and as far as I can tell, Sanderson isn’t going that direction within the books. But it’s has possibilities. At a later point Shallan does point out that how she is Mraize is similar to how she is with Adolin because she needs to make both men interested in invested in keeping her. (I think she succeeds at that by the end of the book. Although, whether or not that’s a good thing is up in the air.) — Also it has the added bonus of making the Adolin vs Kaladin question moot.
@13 I thought that the lock of hair was the Royal Locks from Warbreaker. It once again makes me worry for Vivenna because she and Siri are the only ones I know with the Royal Locks.
Would you mind saying *which* books there are spoilers for? I was caught off-guard by the sand bit, assuming it was only published books.
Personally, I like seeing something and thinking “hey, it’s that thing from that other book”, but much less so “hey, it’s that thing someone on the Internet told me would show up”.
Iyatil is definitely creepy. I like the idea she might be Kriss.
Somebody definitely inhabited those craters before the Alethi arrived on the Shattered Plains. I’m having a mental revolt at the thought of modern-day Parshendi digging basements, but who knows what they did when the desolations were in full force. The fact that a basement survived highstorms and wasn’t filled with hardened crem for such long time seems a little incredible though. So, I suspect any basements are of fairly recent construction by someone other than the Parshendi.
wcarter @17
World hoppers can only travel forward in time. There’s WoB on that out there somewhere in cyberland. Hoid may be older than your average Cosmere human, but he isn’t necessarily on par with the Heralds–thousands of years old–when he is on present-day Roshar. We do know The Liar of Partinel/Dragonsteel predate all other Cosmere books, but not by how much (afaik). From Elantris (oldest-occurring published Cosmere book) to WoK is roughly 350 years (Coppermind). If Hoid was doing a lot of forward time travel from his Liar days, then he might be just a youngster. So, yeah, I agree with you. Except I believe Hoid isn’t just world-hopping randomly. He has a plan.
Haven’t we met…
I was embracing the idea of the branch with writing coming from Yolen–perhaps invested to resist skullmoss (a trune-ring wand?) or some such. Then I read jeremyguebert’s whited-out text (@20). Both explanations sound good.
ETA
scm of 2814 @23
Good on Alcatraz. Heh, heh.
@21 Illyene
That’s a common misconception with allomancy but it’s not true.
A misting or misborn could not burn silver for any allomantic power (and trying might make him or her quite sick), but Allomancy can affect silver such as with a steel push or iron pull.
Coming at a coin shot or mistborn with a silver knife would be just as useless as most other metal blades. It’s aluminum and some alloys with a very high aluminum content that allomancy can’t work on directly.
That being said unlike silver, aluminum can be burned it just takes away all of the mistborn’s other ingested metals
Wow, I guess my imagination just ran rampant on this chapter, and none of my imaginings tie into any of what is posted so far. I’ve always been an outlier, so I guess this is not difference, eh?
First, great chapter summary, Alice! I have so little background with the Trophy items, that I was hoping someone would clarify. Thanks!
My first divergent thinking: Mraize/Wit
Ok, why isn’t anyone saying that Mraize is Wit? It was almost baldly stated right at the beginning of the chapter, from Shallan herself. Just because he doesn’t LOOK like Wit doesn’t mean he isn’t, does it?
I kept remembering that he always says “I never lie”. So, what view does Shallan see first, the non-disguised back side. She thought she recognized him, then decided she didn’t because of his disguised front side. (He has Lightweaver abilities, right?) Can we trace any of the disfigurement to episodes in Wit’s long life, so they wouldn’t really be lies either if you knew more about him? I don’t have the background in the Cosmere to know, but some of you do! Am I crazy? Do we know what color Wit’s eyes are? Here are the disfigurements:
I also kept wondering why the tenement was so ancient looking, and thought right away that it must be Lightweaved. Again, truth in advertisement – it is ancient because it’s built on top of the ancient basement. The second basement that contains Trophies. Wit collects things from all around the Cosmere.
The Guard at the Door – high-pitched voice made me think disguised. And he smiled when she was snarky but accurate about how they must have looked long for just that spot to build their hideout. Who is he really? Does the Cosmere include a small man with a large axe???
That statement Mraize/Wit made to Shallan: Tyn “sent someone she knew I would not kill. She always has been clever.” seems like a clever way to tell Shallan she was never really in any danger. But ??? Why would he say that to her? Truth again.
He uses the reed with blowdarts. I took this as a reference to his flute. It also is a great means of goosing Shallan as he ‘barely’ misses her repeatedly throughout the chapter. I took to be synonymous to his ‘sinister’ pleasure at verbally ragging the Princes. I think he recognized her from the beginning and was testing her throughout the chapter to see just how clever she was.
Mraize – he tells her up front it’s a title. Anyone good with anagrams?
He’s interested in Amaram. Amaram hides secrets, including his flute! So, he gives Shallan/Tyn a simple assignment of inventorying Amaram’s home, and gets so much more. Did he get the inventory, though?
He calls Shallan/Veil “little knife”. Wit knows about what happened to her as a child. He knows what she did, even if she doesn’t remember yet. This seemed a direct hint to me. Does he know she doesn’t remember? Could he be trying to connect with her? Could he be trying to give her another hint about who he is? He doesn’t really seem to be in charge of the Ghostbloods to me. To me the woman seems to be in charge. Is Wit in disguise and an infiltrator of the organization? Maybe he’s trying to figure out what the heck Shallan is doing there in disguise.
Well, that’s what I was thinking as I read the chapter. Comments?
Hmm. I don’t think Mraize is Wit/Hoid. He creeps me out in a way Wit does not. Moreover, I think if he is Wit then he has lied in this chapter: namely, when he says he had been expecting to kill Shallan — I don’t think Wit kills people. (Rock says in chapter 46 that “Lunu’anaki (Hoid) cannot hurt man. Is forbidden by other gods. Everyone knows this.” I am, admittedly, assuming this also applies to women.)
@27, good point. It’s that part in a certain book (trying to avoid spoilers) where there is a LOT of frustration over silver being the only metal available that probably accounts for it. I know it’s what I was thinking of.
More Divergent Thinking: Ghostbloods.
‘the strange little woman’ – why is she in a mask?
My thought as I was reading this chapter again was that she sounds a whole lot like Mistress. And our description of Shalash. It could be she wears a mask because she would be recognized otherwise. She’s the Herald of the Lightweavers, and this hideout is full of Lightweaving, at least there’s some evidence for that. She could make the mask look like it was blending in with her skin “like the skin had started to grow around the edges of the mask”. Mask gives a mosaic of anger and rage.
Certainly we know someone is going around destroying images of Shalash in rage and anger. It could be, if it is Shalash who’s been destroying statues of herself, that she’s destroying the statues because they are a corruption of her true visage, and she really looks like what Shallan sees. If she’s starting to reclaim her identity, she might be pretty angry that everywhere she’s portrayed is wrong.
Ghostbloods – then I began to wonder if the woman was Shalash, could the Ghostbloods be a group of the Heralds, trying to hold onto their purpose or regain their purpose, after relinquishing their Honorblades.
We know that Honor gave the Heralds blades with special powers so that they could protect the ‘world’ from the Voidbringers. Right? Once the Heralds walked away from their swords, do we know if they can be injured, and if so, what happens to the injuries (ala Elantris and never healing)? Could the mask be covering up an injury to Shalash’s face? Do they never age physically but are still prey to injuries and atrophying mental and physical faculties?
If the Ghostbloods are the Heralds, which Herald would be:
Just musing along….
Final musing.
Shallan’s progression as a secret agent.
I agree with you, Alice, that Shallan is coming along. She is more careful, and she is more self-aware, as you said. I really enjoyed watching her cope in this chapter. She wasn’t perfect, and that was refreshing after seeing how quickly and effortlessly she’s picking up the Lightweaving. She actually made several mistakes this chapter.
When Shallan hopped off the ladder and turned to see Mraize she froze. An experienced spy wouldn’t have frozen. Granted, she had the wherewithall to look behind her when she saw someone pointing a blowreed at her, saw the target on the wall, and guessed what was going to happen next (I don’t think I’d have done all that so swiftly), but the next thing she does is ‘yelp and jump’ to the side. Bond would have suavely turned back and smiled wryly at Mraize. heh
The biggest mistake Shallan made in suave spyness is that she reacted like a lighteye by raising her safehand to her breast and taking a deep breath. I don’t see Tyn doing that or any darkeyed woman. Screams lighteye Brightlady reaction, to me.
This is another reason why I think Mraize is Wit because Mraize (a consummate spymaster) would have noticed and been suspicious.
Then Shallan jumps again when Mraize blows a dart again. Giggle, but not very spy-ish.
Shallan makes up for everything, though, by being able to verbally spar with Mraize, and she is very impressive in that. I would never have been able to come up with the explanations she did, so readily. And she’s very good at keeping the darkeye attitude toward Mraize, with all the “Brightlord”s, something that takes clear thinking for a lighteye Brightlady.
And thank goodness for her foresight in having Pattern watch for trackers on the way to the meeting, because she was a bit too flustered to remember when she left. Pattern is worth his weight in gold! Her Lightweaving skills just get better and better!
Revv Toparchy??? Anyone want to guess what this means? Actually, I can guess at Toparchy (synonymous with Hierarchy?) But what is Revv?? I agree with you, Alice, Nalan is a prick. But that does seem to be consistent with judgement without justice, doesn’t it?
Oh wow, lots of good things in the re-read. As people have already pretty exhaustively gone through the trophies, I’m just going to comment on how I really like this introduction to Mraize in general. The Cosmere goodies are great, but even discounting their Cosmere significance his trophies paint a vivid image of the weight behind Mraize, of all the experience he has. I’d argue that out of all the potentially-antagonistic forces we see in Words of Radiance, Mraize is the most intimidating: his agenda is probably the hardest to parse out (really all we know is he has some issue with Amaram, which seems like it is less revealing than say Nalan going around and killing proto-Radiants), yet he almost takes on the role of Shallan’s mentor in the latter half (which…wow Shallan, you really pick them girl). Plus he sets into motion this plot arc for Shallan, which is a fun way for her to focus on her powers while still learning stuff.
So yeah really like the Mraize stuff (and when we get to it later the Iyatil stuff). It does make me wonder how hard it’s going to bite Shallan in book 3 (and possibly beyond): as fun as it is to see her interacting with them, this isn’t the first time Shallan has made the mistake of just jumping into this kind of thing, and there’s only so long you can keep making the same mistake before you finally learn your lesson.
I think Pattern is worth more than that — does he even weigh anything?
Toparchy would be from topos “place” and archy as in monarchy, oligarchy, anarchy etc. So either “a government ruling over a place” or, more interestingly but perhaps also more unlikely, a government where a place *is* the ruler.
@18 travyl: I wondered, too, why she didn’t just take a Memory so she could. But in this case, I think it’s because she was using her desire to draw as a way to distract herself from paying attention to what she was doing, and she deliberately didn’t want to ‘give in’ to the distraction. As Alice mentioned in her commentary, I think this a sign of growth in self-control and self-awareness and all for the good.
Oh, and did anyone else notice, Shallan was able to “stifle a blush” when she noticed that the strange little woman wasn’t wearing a safehand covering of any kind. Another BIG step in self-control and self-awareness for Shallan who is always plagued with involuntary blushes.
@21 Ellynne what is Silence’s world? Is it published somewhere? I LOVE all the possible meanings you uncovered. Considering “little sword” that can be so evocative of Shallan’s childhood disaster. To pair that with gladiolus symbolism reflects where Shallan has come from and how she has thrived. It’s so witty, too.
@24 kei_rin:I like Shallan/Wit. But he’s too old for her.
@26 Ways: Can you share your mental revolt on the thought of modern-day Parshendi digging basements? I am curious. They had Shardblades, now they only have one. They could use those to dig the basements. I’m assuming that’s how it’s done? In the hideout’s case, I think there’s a magical explanation for why it isn’t flooded (since it keeps being mentioned) because it feels to me when reading the chapter like it’s been there for a long time.
Are The Liar of Partinel/Dragonsteel published? I’m having problems finding them.
@29 Zizoz: Yeah, I agree with you that Mraize is creepy in a big way and in a very different way than I’ve encountered Wit. But my only real interaction with Wit so far has been through these SA books (just cameos in others) so I don’t think I know that much about him. He is pretty ruthless about his plans when he is talking to Dalinar, showing a side I hadn’t expected. If he’s “undercover” in the Ghostbloods then he has a reputation to uphold that he created for a purpose I don’t know.
As for lying – is it a lie to say you were considering having expected something? Sounds like obfuscatiion, sleight of hand…. He says in the next breath that he would not have killed Tyn had she come. Further, he tells her that Tyn would have known he would not kill her messenger.
@35 Mnmama, Silence is the main character in “Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell,” a novella Sanderson wrote for the anthology Dangerous Women. It’s a Cosmere world where ghosts are real and deadly. They’re also everywhere. Silence is the name of the main character.
@34 Zizoz: ::facepalm:: LOL. There’s more than one way to skin that cat. How about “Pattern is slicker than goose poop!” It’s hard to come up with a positive idiom. There are so many negative ones!
I thought the masked man icon simply means worldhoppers.
It makes sense that there are more local artifacts in the collection. They probably could only take the most important things from other worlds with them, but have enough room for several thing from the world they are in.
The Parshendi did once live in the place that is now the warcamps and they know about the ruins, but they probably are not the original builders.
@@@@@ 11 Small note here, We know pretty much for certain that when Wit says ” there is only one woman his age around here” He is talking about cultivation. Wit/ Hoid was present at the shattering and knew all the holders of the shards. I.e He knows cultivation and they dont really see eye to eye
My first thought was that the branch was Sel-ian as well (what is the toponym, there?), since it’s the only writing-based system.
Also, mnmama @31 — if Talenel is Mraize, it would be quite a test to send Shallan to go find himself in Amaram’s HQ ;-)
@35: Are The Liar of Partinel/Dragonsteel published?
No. Brandon has released selected chapters when people ask him about it. And part of it was his master’s thesis at school, so BYU has a copy.
Current word is that he will release a reworked version, waaaay in the future. Because it is a very important Cosmere book, but would apparently give away things for the other worlds.
Re:“Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell”
You can now get it as an ebook. I asked him about the world at JordanCon in 2014. I was happy to hear that no other works are planned for that world. He needed it and its magic in place, but doesn’t have plans (as of then) to write more from that world. The world bothered me.
A world where the ghost outnumber the living is a world condemned to death. There is no ‘happy ever after’ because at some point all the ghost will win.
End of why…
Can the Royal Locks be infused after they are cut off a person? Once again I feel like I missed about a thousand important details while reading Warbreaker.
@40: It’s “Selish”
I doubt Mraize is Hoid. If Hoid wanted Amaram dead, Amaram would be dead. Period.
@5 – Anybody else think that Mraize calling Shallan a knife, other than foreshadowing future assassination attempts, sounds like Vin? That might indicate a Scadrial connection. However, I’m not entirely convinced there’s a correlation… If Sanderson wanted to get the weapon point across, what else would he have Mraize call her? Little Shardblade? Little spear? Doesn’t quite have the same connotations.
Still, it does remind me of how Vin sees herself.
So, here‘s Brandon’s assistant Peter apparently confirming Mraize is Thaylen. (Hat tip to WeiryWriter for pointing me to this.)
It seems that if one of the Ghostbloods was a lightweaver, he/she would recognize that Shallon was light weaving and point it out. Iyatil was genuinely put out that Shallon was able slip her tail. Mraize was impressed with her ability to get in and out of Amaram’s place without their knowledge. Yet, he is rather haughty, if you ask me, and would definitely throw out an “I see what you did there” to let Shallon know her place in the scheme of things.
mnmama @35
Please have a look at the first two paragraphs of the Dragonsteel entry in Coppermind. It’s more succinct than my thoughts at the moment, and explains the subtleties. The first 6 chapters/90-some page of a rough Liar of Partinel can be read on docstoc.com. There is also an alternate beginning posted, to thoroughly confuse matters. None of it is canon, but it is an interesting read. Aether of Night and White Sand are the other 2 unpublished books you’ve seen mentioned upthread (there are Aetherlins in Liar too). Brandon might email copies if asked nicely, but doesn’t really want them out in public or discussed in these forums. I haven’t read either of those novels, but a very few of the commenters herein have copies.
Spren-diferous @39
Yeah, Cultivation fits the bill, but I wonder about Khriss too. Maybe the “around here” bit knocks Khriss out of the running. We just don’t know enough about Wit and Khriss. And is Wit really as old as all the years that have elapsed since he was born? If his world-hopping involved huge leaps forward in time, then perhaps not.
Zizoz @44
I thought that was out there somewhere. Thanks for the ref. “Apparently”–yep, Peter is sneaky like an Aes Sedai, so the qualifier is appropriate.
Heh. Peter? Sneaky?
::snort::
For some reason, the suggestion that Khriss might be Iyatil hit me wrong, though I couldn’t say quite why. Partly, I have a vague recollection of a WoB or WoP that Khriss doesn’t actually travel – she just sends Nazh to do research for her – and partly I had an idea that Khriss is tall. So… Now I’ve gone off to reread White Sand and find out whether I’m right, wrong, or unjustified in my concept of her height. I read until my eyes went blurry last night, and it’s all your fault! ;)
Also, I’m pretty sure that Wit was referring to Cultivation when he said the bit about only one woman hereabouts being his own age. If nothing else, lay that side-by-side with his comment about “Tanavast was a fine enough fellow – bought me drinks once – but he was not God.” Add in the two epigraph letters, in which he discusses with “you old dragon” some of the Shardholders as people they both knew, and it only makes sense that he was referring to Cultivation’s holder.
I was intrigued by the suggestion that Iyatil might be Shalash, though I don’t think it fits. If nothing else, Shalash is described as “tall and lean, with light violet eyes, dark skin and long black hair,” once again spoiling an otherwise fine idea by being too tall to fit this description of Iyatil.
And mnmama @35 again
Parshendi digging basements just feels wrong to me. Why would they, or any other race for that matter, want/need them and the hassle of keeping water and crem out? We don’t see any evidence of basements in the Eshonai interlude where she speaks with her mom (iirc). Eshonai, being the only current Parshendi shardbearer, could certainly carve out a basement for her mom as Kaladin cut the cave when he is trapped in the chasms with Shallan. It would probably be a better idea to go sideways to make more room in your Shattered Plains home than to go down though. Unless you are trying to hide something, like the Ghostbloods. And the Parshendi weren’t living on the Shattered Plains until after Gavilar was assassinated and the Alethi declared a jihad war. Of course that’s not very substantial evidence and I could be wrong.
The Ghostblood’s basement may well be magically protected to keep it from filling up with water and/or crem. Is there anything in the text to suggest the Ghostbloods did not build it themselves? That explanation or that it is a magically protected relic from Natanatan seem like more reasonable explanations (imho).
I didn’t see red (flags) about the basement the first time I read WoR, but I definitely am this time through. Maybe it’s just a red herring instead.
@@@@@ Alice
My fault or Spren-diferous’? XD a bunch. No matter, you probably wanted to read White Sand again anyway, didn’t you? XD some more.
Now that you mention it, the WoWhichever about Khriss not traveling rings a bell. Let’s roll with Cultivation’s holder as Wit’s reference.
As far as Iyatil = Shalash, I agree that it doesn’t fit. But…Shalash is presumably pretty proficient at Lightweaving. (Or did the Heralds lose their surges/magical abilities when they broke the oathpact and abandoned their Honorblades? Good question for BWS if it hasn’t already been answered.) Could Shalash make herself look smaller in stature with Lightweaving? My question is why would she be disguising herself like that and running around with the Ghostbloods. I can’t come up with an answer right now, and it doesn’t fit her MO in the Baxil interlude.
ETA – and, of course, Shalash masquerading as Iyatil would also have recognized Shallan was Lightweaving the wall to her hidey-hole. I guess one could respond that she understood what Shallan was doing and decided not to blow her cover b/c she might want to draft Shallan into another intrigue later.
Are we certain that one Lightweaver can definitely see through the work of another? Especially if he or she doesn’t know to look for it?
I know in WoT channellers can see through illusions made by others of the same gender because they can see the weave. And they can cut the illusions of any channeller if they’re obvious, but that’s a completely different system made by a different author in a different world.
I highly doubt those same rules apply. Even Shallan sees exactly the illusions she makes rather than some sculpted blob of storm light.
@50
Good point. Maybe Shallan would have seen through Shalash-as-Iyatil too, right?
Two comments
1] Mraize has to sound awfully like Rayse when you say it.
2] The fragile pink stone has a possible source in print. Soulstone from the Emperor’s Soul.
Hoid burning bronze might be able to detect lightweaving, but I don’t think there is a native sense magic ability. Even if an allomancer can tell that someone is using magic, he can’t necessarily see what’s really under the illusion.
If Iyatil and Mraize are world travelers, aware of the Cosmere, and proficient in light weaving, they would also be intelligent enough to look for subtle signs of its use in those who might be either enemies or allies. They both seem genuinely flummoxed by Vail’s abilities at this point. So, while they may be aware of the complex magic system on Roshar, I doubt they have figured out how to use it themselves. Yet.
edit: Subtle signs of its use might be the faint glow of stormlight like a pale aura.
@54 Marbelcal
You’re probably on to something, but it’s more likely the “subtle signs” would be along the lines of flaws in the creations themselves, especially in unpractised Lightweavers–Veil’s “fuzzy” nose for instance.
The more I think about it, the more an aura on all illusions visible to the naked eye of anyone seems like way too massive a weakness for Lightweaving to ever work .
If they did glow, Shallan wouldn’t have lasted a minute of his first meeting with the Ghostbloods. At least some of these people are killers, and they are all paranoid, detail-oriented strangers in a basement with no natural light.
The human eye isn’t particularly strong compared to some animals, but it is specifically designed to pick up on very subtle shifts of color and light to warn us of predators, particularly in the corners of our vision. The moment she moved, her “aura-outline” would shift within someone’s field of vision.
That would be something they couldn’t not see. The smaller/quicker the change, the less the brain understands what “it” is, the more it screams to the conscious mind “Pay Attention To That!”
Still, it will be interesting to see what illusions look like to the eyes of another confirmed Lightweaver down the road. It’s far more probable (though not confirmed) that auras or other stormlight related clues would be visible to them.
The problem I have with assuming that the red crystal comes from Aether is that that substance is described as “cracking and dissolving into dust” almost immediately after being released from conscious control. Of course, since it’s not canon, Brandon may simply have tweaked how it behaves.
I just got finished reading White Sand, so when I saw the reference to the carapace mask, my thoughts immediately jumped there – that whole book is “carapace this” and “carapace that.” Unfortunately, after a quick scan back through it, the only color I could find for carapace was black.
Could someone refresh my memory on the significance of yellow hair from Sel? I’ve read Elantris once, and I’ve read Emperor’s Soul a few times, and nothing is coming to mind.
@49 – Per Brandon, the heralds only have access to Surgebinding with the Honorblades, so she wouldn’t be able to lightweave.
Nazrax @56 – IIRC, in The Emperor’s Soul, the Emperor Ashravan is described as having golden hair; there’s no particular indication that it’s significant, but there it is.
In Elantris, the Patriarch Seinalan is described as having long golden hair; again, no indication that it’s significant.
So… we don’t know if golden hair is significant elsewhere besides Roshar, or if Brandon just happens to like that description. :) We do know, of course, that the golden hair of the Iriali is significant on Roshar, and IIRC it’s implied that the Iriali originally came from a different planet.
The Ghostbloods seem to be obsessed with hunting so I assumed all of these objects were dangerous to acquire. I haven’t read Aether of Night, White Sand, or Dragonsteel, but I assumed the crystal to be an Atium crystal. Also the skull that she thought might be a Santhid I thought could be from Sixth of the Dusk.
@52 Adam Canning, your suggested connection between Mraize and Rayse in terms of their similar sound is augmented by considering a Hebraic language convention. The preposition ‘from’ in Hebrew is a letter prefix having the sound ‘m’. Thus, Mraize could be taken as ‘from Rayse’. Thus far, the rather chilling character, Mraize, who loves to intimidate and speaks of hunting prey, could be considered a possible emissary of Rayse/Odium. He does begin to show another, more reasonable side in his last conversation with Shallan, however. So we’ll just have to wait for the next book to see what develops.
I note that neither Mraize nor Iyatil – both taken as world-hoppers, according to my recollection of WOB, detected Shallan’s surgebinding abilities, i.e, lightweaving, until they became obvious in the end. Yet, Wit/Hoid and Zahel/Vasher appeared to have no problem with identifying the young Shallan as a (proto)surgebinder (Hoid) or that a spren is connected to Kaladin (Zahel). While Hoid may have special detection abilities, the distinction between the visibility of Syl and Pattern is that Syl is a moving 3-D apparition or hologram, while Pattern Is normally a 2-D geometric figure who can appear to be part of a dress design.
The thing that strikes me most about the Ghostbloods is, why would they be compiling a collection of artifacts and bringing them to Roshar, and to the Shattered Plains specifically ? What if these relics are either local in nature (Tusk, Zanthid eye) or taken from another worldhopper on Roshar, not affiliated with them (Hair, stick, crystal, etc…). I wonder if the Ghostbloods and 17th Shard aren’t working against each other across the Cosmere? Just a thought that occurred to me as I was reading this thread.
#59, atium is a metal.
@62 I think 59 is refering the crystal which the metal atium precipitates (I think that’s what happens) out of. The crystals were what slices up the hands of prisoners at the Pits and shattered in the presence of allomancy. Which you probably knew already.
@63 Bingo
Did Mraize’s scars remind anyone else of Kelsier’s scars from his time in the Pits of Hathsin?
Alice, I wouldn’t think the hemalurgic spikes would be invested and sitting behind display glass. They lose their investiture pretty quickly outside a body
Bellaberry @66 – Hmm. Good point. It’s faintly possible Mraize (or whoever is collecting stuff) wouldn’t know that, and collected them anyway. But what else might they be? Unless they’re metalminds, but in a different form than we’ve mostly seen them. That’s the only other thing I’ve got for them. Anyone else?
Just looked back at the discussion on Chapter 42, and the thought occurs that these spikes may indeed be duds by now… but might be used on someone from Roshar. Either, as suggested, used on a stormform to give power to a human, or used on a Radiant to (attempt to) give power to another.
You know, the more I learn about Hemalurgy, the more it creeps me out.
Heh. It’s amusing now, after having read Bands of Mourning, to see all the terribly inaccurate guesses as to the origins of Iyatil.
Yet more evidence that drawing conclusions when having insufficient evidence is an exercise in futility.