Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.
Today’s entry is Part 36 of A Dance With Dragons, in which we cover Chapter 61 (“The Griffin Reborn”) and Chapter 62 (“The Sacrifice”).
Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.
And now, the post!
Chapter 61: The Griffin Reborn
What Happens
Jon Connington aka Griff carries out the siege against his own former hold, Griffin’s Roost. He expects heavy losses, but lack of preparedness on the defenders’ part ensures that the castle is captured with minimal casualties. He assures Homeless Harry Strickland, though, that subduing the rest of Cape Wrath will not be so easy. He climbs up to the top of the highest tower, and reflects on how he had lost this birthright after the Battle of the Bells, where he had failed to find and execute Robert Baratheon at Stoney Sept, and King Aerys had stripped him of his titles and lands in punishment. He remembers how he had insisted to Myles Toyne, in the first year of his exile, that Tyrion Tywin Lannister could not have done it either, and Toyne had replied that Lannister would have. He would have burned Stoney Sept to the ground and killed everyone in it, Toyne said. Connington knows he was right, and vows again not to fail the son as he had the father.
The inhabitants of the keep look at him as a stranger, but kneel to him without demur, though Ronald Storm, the bastard son of Red Ronnet, Connington’s cousin and former ruler of the keep, is still defiant. Connington discusses their situation with Haldon Halfmaester; half of their forces are still missing, either delayed or lost at sea or landed elsewhere, but they ought to have also captured Rain House and Crow’s Nest by this time. Haldon reports that the Lannisters and their allies are in disarray, while Stannis Baratheon remains in open rebellion and the Arryns remain silent. Dorne is nominally still allied with the Iron Throne, but has armies lying in wait in the passes, Haldon doesn’t know for what. Connington orders him to write Prince Doran immediately to inform him that his sister’s son is alive and home to claim the throne. Connington muses that without dragons they have little incentive to offer for alliance to the local lords. Haldon suggests Aegon’s hand in marriage, but Connington says they must reserve him for Daenerys Targaryen in case she returns. Then Haldon suggests Connington’s own hand instead, as the future hand to King Aegon, but Connington remembers the creeping rot on his hand, and rejects that too.
The next morning Connington bathes his afflicted hand in bad wine, and reflects that his condition must be kept a secret lest his allies desert him. Haldon reports to him that Marq Mandrake has taken Greenstone, on Estermont. Connington decides it is time to send for Prince Aegon, who has been hidden at their initial base camp, but does not want to raise his banner yet, until they secure more allies, in particular Dorne. Strickland urges him to wait and consolidate his power on the Cape, but Connington says he means to take Storm’s End, Stannis’s last stronghold in the south, within ten days, which will prove their strength. Malo asks how he intends to take the nigh-impregnable keep, and Connington replies, “by guile”.
Prince Aegon arrives four days later, with Ser Rolly Duckfield, whom Aegon had named his first Kingsguard over Connington’s objections. He takes his time coming to see Connington, and demurs when Connington would have sent Duck away. The prince informs Connington that Strickland and Flowers have told him about the impending attack on Storm’s end.
Jon Connington did not let his fury show. “And did Homeless Harry try to persuade you to delay it?”
“He did, actually,” the prince said, “but I won’t. Harry’s an old maid, isn’t he? You have the right of it, my lord. I want the attack to go ahead… with one change. I mean to lead it.”
Commentary
Mm. So baby dragon wants to show his claws, do he.
*shrug* Well, probably not the worst idea, on the face of it. In Westeros, you ain’t worth shit if you ain’t a Manly Man Who Fights Real Good, so it’s probably a sound idea for a presumptive king of Testosterone Central to show that he can, in fact, Fight Real Good. And what better way to show that than to go at a supposedly impregnable castle and successfully… er, impregnate it?
(Yeah. No “warrior strength = virility = My Penis Is Totally Large subtext THERE, NO SIRREE.)
Of course, Aegon’s Me Big Warrior Me Show You plan is probably going to throw a wrench in whatever “guile”-and-therefore-presumably-non-Big-Warrior-Fight-Good-oriented plan Connington was talking about earlier, so this should be interesting. At least insofar as any of this is interesting, which I’m not entirely sure it is.
I mean, it’s not un-interesting, exactly, but… well, I think my problem is that I can’t really pinpoint yet to what extent I even have to care about this entire very-recently-appeared new storyline. Like, maybe Connington and Aegon are destined to become major players in the ongoing hot mess that is Westeros at the moment, but maybe they are all going to be dead by the end of this book instead and it’ll all turn out to have been a mostly pointless flash in the pan.
And the thing is, I think I’ll be mildly irritated no matter which of those two things this turns out to be. Because if they are new major players, then my reaction will kind of be: great, that’s exactly what this story needed, more major players. And if they aren’t, then my reaction will kind of be: well why did I have to waste brainpower on this, then? I use the phrase “kind of” advisedly in this case (though probably way too much as a general thing), because (a) I recognize I’m setting up a pretty unfair Catch 22 there, and (b) I don’t actually have very strong feelings about this storyline at all, either negatively or positively.
Well, not yet, anyway. I’ve learned not to underestimate Martin’s ability to get me het up about things by this point. So, we’ll see, I guess.
And… yeah. Exposition exposition set-up set-up.
The only other two things that jumped out at me about this were, first, Jon Connington’s disdain of Ser Rolly as “blindingly adequate”, which I found hilarious, and secondly (and much less hilariously) Connington’s beratement of himself for not being as much of a giant pulsating asshole as Tywin Lannister was.
Because, okay, I get what’s being said here, which is that Connington’s (relative) show of mercy to the inhabitants of Stoney Sept is what made Robert’s whole coup and the ensuing civil war and blah blah blah possible, but for fuck’s sake, man. If the only way to achieve an objective is to slaughter an entire town in cold blood, then I submit to you that that objective is not worth achieving.
“But,” you begin, and point out the probably vastly higher number of innocents who have died as a result of all the hoopla since then, and I will merely shrug at you and counter that it doesn’t matter, because playing the Might Have Been game is a fool’s racket, and definitely should not be worth a person’s soul, which in my opinion is what razing that town ought to cost. And then I will probably add something about how even if Robert had been killed before he could effect his coup that something generally as heinous and innocent-killing would probably have happened anyway, thereby proving that idealistic cynicism is totally a thing and I have it, a lot.
Sigh.
Chapter 62: The Sacrifice
What Happens
Aly Mormont urges Asha not to watch the sacrifice being prepared before them, but Asha refuses to leave, knowing that the queens’ men want to burn her just as much. Artos Flint argues that it is the old gods they should be appeasing, not R’hllor, but Corliss Penny says it was their “demon trees” that brought on the snow. Asha wishes a pox on all their gods. She watches Ser Clayton Suggs prepare the pyre, and knows he takes part in the burning for pleasure, not piety. Asha thinks on how they’ve been mired in the crofters’ village for nineteen days now, with food becoming more and more scarce, and is not surprised that some of the men have resorted to eating their own dead.
The four Peasebury men who had been caught doing it, though, were condemned to die, and the queens’ men declared that burning them as a sacrifice to R’hllor would save them from the storm. One of the four men, the serjeant, goads Suggs into killing him first, which Asha thinks very clever and notes it should her turn come. Stannis has confined himself to his tower for days—some said that he spent his time calling to Lady Melisandre for help—but he emerges to watch the burning, accompanied by Arnolf Karstark, who had found them eight days earlier but had not shared with them any of his company’s rations. Ser Godry Farring conducts the ritual, exhorting R’hllor to accept their offering and show them the way to Winterfell. Asha is sickened by the burnings, but does not turn away. After, Suggs manhandles her and says the crowd will be twice as big at her burning. Aly Mormont intervenes, but Suggs says a sacrifice of royal blood would be more powerful. Aly asks if they will burn her next, and Asha suggests that maybe burning a true believer like Suggs would be more effective. Ser Justin Massey arrives and laughs, and Suggs flounces off.
Asha thanks Massey for the rescue, and Aly points out it will seem that he has lost faith in R’hllor. Massey mutters that he has lost faith in more than that, and offers to take Asha to dinner at the longhall. Asha notes that the southron men look considerably more sickly than the northmen, and there is a bitter fight among the factions as to what they should do; Asha thinks that all their options—press on, stay, or retreat—mean death, but Karstark assures the men that they will take Winterfell and “bathe in the blood of Freys and Boltons”. The northmen cheer this, but Asha notes that the southron lords are silent. Massey initially engages the Karstarks, arguing against their plan, but when they challenge his piety he becomes nervous and soon quits the hall. Asha reflects that her champion is “made of suet”.
She tries to follow him anyway, but loses him in the storm, and encounters Suggs instead, who hurls epithets and threats at her. Asha reminds him that Stannis gelds rapists, but Suggs chuckles that he’d rather burn her anyway. They are interrupted by approaching horses, which they both first think is an invading force, but Asha sees that two of them are Night’s Watch and calls out, asking who they are. “Friends”, one replies, and Asha sees to her shock that it is Tristifer Botley, along with five more of her former company, and a Braavosi man who introduces himself as Tycho Nestoris, a servant of the Iron Bank. He explains that he paid the Glovers a ransom to liberate the ironmen to serve him as escorts to find King Stannis. He identifies her as Lady Asha Greyjoy, and tells her he has a present for her, found beneath the walls of Winterfell with Mors Umber’s men. Two figures come forward, and Asha identifies them as a young girl and an old man.
The old man… no one would ever think him comely. She had seen scarecrows with more flesh. His face was a skull with skin, his hair bone-white and filthy. And he stank. Just the sight of him filled Asha with revulsion.
He raised his eyes. “Sister. See. This time I knew you.”
Asha’s heart skipped a beat. “Theon?”
His lips skinned back in what might have been a grin. Half his teeth were gone, and half of those still left him were broken and splintered. “Theon,” he repeated. “My name is Theon. You have to know your name.”
Commentary
Omigosh, a family reunion! Those are the BEST. They make everyone so happy!
*mops up small lake of sarcasm*
Yeah, pretty sure this particular sibling meet-up is not going to make anyone’s Most Awesome Reuniting Moment list anytime soon. Or at least I will be vastly surprised if it does. But even so, I am also fairly vastly interested in seeing what will happen as a result of it.
Assuming everyone involved doesn’t all die, of course, which is even less a guarantee than the last time we saw this sorry pack of folks. Starvation and hypothermia: not getting any more fun over time! Shocking, I know. But, as Asha points out to herself, it’s not like they appear to have any options which don’t involve a whole lot of very grisly death, so there’s that.
Although perhaps now Theon might be able to point them to that secret passage through the catacombs into Winterfell that I’m 85% sure I’m not hallucinating Theon knows about? That might be a thing. I hope it (a) is true and (b) happens, because even though R’hllor and his followers and their human sacrifice bullshit can take a long walk off a short pier, I would still on balance far rather see Stannis and Asha and etc. survive and get to Winterfell than let the Revoltin’ Boltons continue to have it, because duh.
So, um, go, Theon, go! I guess! Sort of!
(Though of course I am aware that if Theon does have a way into Winterfell, it can certainly be interpreted that his arrival was a direct result of the sacrifice to R’hllor, and that is certainly how Godry et al will take it. For my part, I will just roll my eyes and point out that Theon was rescued and on his way to Stannis’s camp long before they burnt up those guys, so whatever with your mystical/religious ambiguity thing, Martin! Nyah!)
Re: the cannibalism thing, well. Gross and wrong and utterly unacceptable under 99% of circumstances? Yes, obviously. In this circumstance? Prooooobably, maybe not? I mean, if it’s a choice between “eat this dead dude” or starve… I dunno, I just feel that as a general rule I am very pro-me surviving things, sooooo, yeah. I don’t know if I could actually eat another human being, but I don’t know that I would condemn someone else for doing it in this situation, either.
And I certainly wouldn’t burn them at the stake for it. Though I guess there’s an argument to be made that there must be a strong deterring punishment, lest people get it into their heads to move on from just eating people who have already died to actually killing live people for food, but that’s a slippery slope argument that… I hope is over-exaggerating things?
Look, my vote is, let’s not starve and/or freeze and have to deal with this problem in the first place, because ugh. Lush tropical island living for all! There, look, I fixed it.
In other news, well hey, the Braavosi banking dude actually found Stannis! Well done, man, I am impressed. I totally thought his quest was doomed to failure, but apparently “banker” is way more badass a profession in Braavos than it tends to be round these parts. I mean, my bank is prepared to be a total shit about charging me a whole passel of bullshit fees just for the heady honor of letting them dry-hump my money while I’m not using it, but I’m pretty sure even they wouldn’t be down for hunting me down through a pre-apocalyptic blizzard from hell to collect said fees. At least, I sincerely hope not.
And, last and really, really least:
“That prancing fool? What do you want with him, cunt? If it’s a fuck you need, I’m more a man than Massey.”
Cunt again? It was odd how men like Suggs used that word to demean women when it was the only part of a woman they valued.
“Odd” is not how I would put it, but otherwise, word.
And that’s our show, kids! Have a lovely week, and I will see you next Thursday!
There is a typo in your summary, Leigh saying that Tyrion Lannister was the one who would have burned the Stony Sept to the ground instead of Tywin.
There has been several comparisons between Connington and Tywin now, including Tyrion almost calling him father. And with greyscale causing madness and desperation I feel Connington could end up using Tywin’s tactics in the future.
As for the importance of Connicton and Aegon, I feel they could end up as semi-important characters in the end like Robb and Renly whose actions matter, but not people who will make it to the end of the series or have super important futures so it does not bother me they were introduced late. I have not read the entire book btw, if people do not like prediction making.
I don’t mind the Jon Connington chapter, or his and “Aegon”s storyline, even though it does seem sort of extraneous. But then again, I think it ties to the main story in a way that you haven’t written about, Leigh. Can’t say more on that score, obviously. But otherwise, there are some interesting bits in the Golden Company storyline. JonCon himself is a quite interesting character: the exiled Lord, friend of Rhaegar, former Golden Company member who left and faked his own death to raise the boy Aegon… He’s fascinating.
Asha’s chapter has a few interesting bits, too, though pretty much every chapter in the vicinity of Winterfell has been awful throughout this book, even a few miles away like in her chapter. Cannibalism, torture, burning people alive, starvation, threatened rape, death…the fun never ends! I’d still rather be there than in Slaver’s Bay, though. At least they’re not suffering the Pale Mare.
We’re entering the home stretch of this book now, and I’m really excited for the next several posts… Woo-hoo! Any word on what you’ll be doing once you’ve finished ADWD, Leigh?
If Aegon is to win this rebellion and conquer Westeros, he has to prove that he is a decent warrior. This isn’t the U.S. Army where soldiers respect the rank and follow orders even if they think the officer himself is a complete cheese-dick.
He has to convince men to rally to him and risk their lives for him. Won’t happen unless they judge him worthy. Doesn’t mean he’s in the front rank of every fight, but if they think he’ll shirk, they won’t follow.
Hm, yeah, someone sounds a tiny little bit fed up with this book and I can’t really blame her. But only 10 chapters to go and those are not too shabby, we promise. ;-)
…Stannis and Asha and etc.
That should “et al.” instead of “etc.”
Hey everyone, I know what will make life better for the population of Westeros, another arsehole who wants to sit on the Iron Throne! Hi Aegon!
Well, there is kind of a slippery slope when people disrespect the dead. In AFFC, Septon Meribald commented that outlaws began by stealing gear from the dead and soon they were robbing the living as well. If a despairing, starving man eats people who have died without consequence, what’s to stop him from thinking “well, Jake here is as good as dead, so I guess he won’t need that leg”? When Stannis had to endure starvation during Mace Tyrell’s siege of Storm’s End, he also managed to avoid letting people eat their dead (even if Donal Noye lost his arm in suspicious circumstances). Besides, the R’hllorites were demanding sacrifices, so Stannis decided to be pragmatic and burn people who were going to be executed anyway.
Not deserving of a “#1 King” mug, but still better than Joffrey, IMO.
I had forgotten that Theon and Asha actually meet at Stannis’ camp in this book. I’m glad Jayne was rescued but the men in Stannis’s army may be as much a threat to her safety as being at Winterfell. Nah. Compared to Ramsey, Suggs is practically a gentleman.
I’m thinking Aegon is a fake off and a nod to the Yorks trying to take the throne of England from Henry VII with a fake Richard Duke of York in Perkin Warbeck during the tail end of the Wars of the Roses. This attack on Storms End will end probably as well as the Lannister/Tyrell attack did.
Yes it was Tywin not Tyrion. Tywin would have burned the whole village down but Tyrion would have talked the Village elders into giving up Robert and Ned. Too bad he was a kid then.
@4 Funny, this is where I really started to like this book. Stuff is happening! An army has landed in Westeros and is taking castles! Between the Golden Company in the south, Ironmen in the Reach, Stannis in the north, and everyone in King’s Landing distracted by Cersei’s bumblings – this is going to get interesting.
Our word for today is “demur.” Heh.
Can’t stand Asha, most of Stannis’ men, or the Boltons. Is there any way they can all lose the upcoming battle? Meteor FTW!
Funny, this is where I really started to like this book.
Me too, Black Dread, me too (which is a bit late if we’re honest).
Re #7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sljSf7KVlQ
As for Jon Connington and his regrets over not burning down the town to make sure Robert died, regardless of collateral damage, one thing to keep in mind is that for him, the end result of all that is very personal to him due to his BFF/bromance/hero worship of Rhaegar.
He failed to stop Robert when he had the chance. Robert’s Rebellion proved to be a success. Robert killed Rhaegar. Put all that together and he essentially is living with the fact that, while he did the right thing on a human level there, those actions not only led to him being discredited, but also led to the death of his favorite person.
I think people tend to have the deepest regrets over actions they take that have an end result of causing them to lose someone they are close to. I doubt Jon would seriously regret not eating kittens, kicking dogs and burning down orphanages just because not doing so got him demoted; but knowing his admirable actions led to an important person in his life dying is causing those regrets.
Sort of a comparable image to Barristan, who did the “right” thing by bravely single-handedly freeing Aerys when he’d been captured…only to realize that by doing so, he essentially single-handedly paved the way for the Mad King to commit any number of extra atrocities before said rebellion, leading to a good bit of the angst and regrets we read about in his chapters.
So much to comment on, where to begin…
Ok, first of all, if I have a choice between eating a dead guy or dying myself, I’m gonna request some of the rib meat because it’s probably the most tender; although maybe the rump roast would have some nice marbling. I guess it depends on the dead guy. Then again, if I’m that hungry maybe I wouldn’t be so picky.
Leigh’s bit about being annoyed with the Griff thread regardless of how it turns out goes directly to a qualm I have about the way Martin, Erickson and other stellar authors (I’m sure) approach epic fantasy. And that is jumping from thread to thread because the events in the various threads are happening at the same time. The Griff thread brings my issue with this approach into sharp relief. If it ends up not being a major factor in the “main thread” (which at this point, I assume, is the frozen zombie apocalypse), then you get to the end of it and you’re annoyed that it wasted your time distracting you from the main story. If it does turn out to be a major factor, it’s annoying that it was introduced so late in the series.
I much prefer the world-building approach used by authors like LE Modessit. Each book, or sometimes pair of books, focuses on one main character, and that character might occasionally hear about or meet one of the other historically important characters, but we save their story for another book. So each book is cohesive and linear.
I won’t be surprised if we get to the end of the SoIaF and I find myself pointing to at least 5 different story-arcs and saying, “that should have been taken out and made into a stand-alone novella or something.”
Take Quentyn, for instance. I could picture taking all the Quentyn chapters (so far) out of the series, and having him be a guy that we just see in a couple of Dany’s chapters, and getting left with that feeling of “I feel like there’s a story there, I wish we could see a little more of it.” And then a year or two after the last book is published, wallah! A book or novella or something about Quentyn’s whole arc leading up to when he meets Dany (and maybe past that, but just from his group’s POV). SO much cooler, IMO.
Well that’s how I’m gonna do it when I pick up my writing again, anyway. hmph.
Is the Iron Bank trying to collect from Stannis?
@15 Aeryl- Eventually. They are offering him aid in return for his promise to fully repay the Iron Bank if he gains the Iron Throne. Example # 4,315 of Cersei’s idiocy, in denying the Iron Bank its due…
Iron Bank thinks Stannis will pay more then Cersei if he has the Throne. So, Stannis!
Re various – I really enjoy the JonCon chapter. Great worldbuilding, brings some significant players back to Westeros (finally) and advances the plot. All win, as far as I’m concerned. Also, really nice points above about JonCon’s regrets (he’s had a few) and his chance to make things right now. Really interesting hints about Jon’s feelings about Rhaegar and how we should incorporate the data into our own partial and conflicting info on his character. The chapter stands on its own and I’m looking forward to how it plays out and whether there will be a Jon/Aegon-Dorne alliance in play in upcoming chapters, and whether that is enough to secure the Iron Throne.
Ditto re the Asha chapter. Lots of very human foibles on display (such as her put down of Massey as “suet.” Ouch.) Very nice work showing how Northerners appear to be much tougher than the obnoxious Southern knights – a lurking theme of the entire series and an important one.
I really can’t think about cannibalism without Cannibal! The Musical being in my head.
Anyway, lots of good things to ruminate on, but I can’t adult today.
@18: “The sky is gray, and all the trees are bare…”
(Well, except for the conifers, obviously.)
IMHO, Toyne overstated Tywin’s bloodthirstiness. From everything we have seen from him, he would have threatened the villagers with burning them first, and given his reputation, they likely would have surrendered Robert to him. There is PR value in incontrovertibly capturing and publicly executing a rebel leader that destroying him along with a whole village and without witnesses of their demise doesn’t provide.
Also, Connington clearly didn’t have good sentinels/outriders either, or he would have been warned of approaching enemy army in time. And, of course, he shouldn’t have been personally involved in the search, etc.
Personally, I am OK with characters, who have an important role to play plot-wise appearing later in the series. Isn’t it how history seems to us? Movers and shakers dying and formerly relatively obscure people suddenly finding themselves at the levers of power/in the limelight? How many more important people had to die before Henry Tudor got his shot? Reserving importance only to people who have been present and prominent in the series from the beginning often seems very contrived and/or leads to bloat.
RobMRobM @17:
The Iron Bank knows that Stannis won’t be able to pay more, given that he’d need a few more years of devastating war to plunk himself onto the throne if he is very, very lucky. And the world is already in the grip of what looks to be a very severe winter. But they have a strict policy of punishing defaulters and also, they may just use their support of Stannis as a means of applying pressure on the Lannister regime until somebody willing to pay comes into power.
As to northeners being generally tougher – yea, no. That’s just the usual propaganda. But they are in their own element here, so of course they are much better equipped and adapted. Also, Stannis’s people are hardly the best that the South has to offer.
Right! If Pedro Oberyn Martell was there in Stannis’s army, he would just have to lace up one button on his shirt, two at the most.
@7: At least Stannis had been more open to the option of cannibalism at that point, IIRC. Now he’s in thrall to the Red God — the one who mandates bonfires on wooden ships — and has lost all common sense to the point where his lower underlings must choose between starvation and burning.. PLANETOS TO STANNIS, WINTER IS HERE. (rollover) ///Take a hint from “Lord Too-Fat” if you don’t want to starve. ///
Yeah, I don’t care too much about JonCon/Aegon. At least not yet. Even with this new background info. However, I hate the idea that any plot is a “waste of time”. Whatever end the JonCon/Aegon plot has, the journey would never be a waste of time to me. It can only be satisfying or disappointing.
I do have a problem when authors introduce new important (POV) characters in the middle of an ongoing series. But it’s mainly because we have less time to grow attached to them. It’s part of the reason why I never liked Cadsuane in WOT. GRRM actually did a good job here by introducing us to them with Tyrion’s POV, but once they’re separated we’re forced to care about these new characters on their own merits. I’m more curious about Septa Lemore, but maybe it’s due to the lack of information.
The Tywin discussion is interesting, but it’s basically debating whether the ends justify the means. I read Machiavelli’s Prince, but it was a version commented by Napoleon. Which made the whole experience much more hilarious than it was intended. For a more modern view, I’m reading the third book in the Maze Runner series. And this ends/means dichotomy is discussed rather heavily there.
In my view, you can’t judge an action based solely on its consequences. Especially because nobody can predict the future with certainty. So no, the ends aren’t justified. They don’t even exist yet. The means matter more. Man, this is getting alliterative.
Revoltin’ Boltons… that was funny. Tycho did come off looking pretty good here and in Jon’s earlier chapter when he showed up. I guess GRRM must have a high opinion of bankers.
@7: Being better than Joffrey isn’t a very strong endorsement.
@9 and @11: This is where I started to get bored with the book. Everything after Dany’s flight was just “meh” for me. Well, almost everything.
@14: I liked your suggestion. It’d make the main books much shorter and to the point, while keeping the readers entertained in the long wait between books.
I love the bit in this chapter about the clans aching to face their deaths fighting for “the Ned’s girl.” It’s a nice rebuke to everyone who worships at the alter of Tywin. Anything Tywin build is gone before he’s in the ground but the Starks can come back from nothing because of the equity they built with their people.
I liked the part where the Hand’s hand was decided not to be offered in marriage to Dorne.
Somebody above mentioned Connington’s bromance with Rhaegar. I interpreted this section even further along that line. When I first read this, I was sure Connington was actually in love with Rhaegar. My reread didn’t change my mind here.
Re: cannibalism.
Older readers may remember the crash of an Uruguayan Airliner in the Andes, in 1972. The 16 survivors had remained alive and had to start eating dead passengers in order to stay alive. They were rescued after two (!) months. The 1993 movie ‘Alive’ was based upon this.
Regarding cannibalism: I think the point here is that the men aren’t starving at this point. Food is scarce but still available. Too early to start with the desperate measures.
@26 – Hunger and Cold are a vicious combination. Your body burns a tremendous amount of calories when it is truly cold. Cold weather infantry units put their troops on double rations (if possible) when they are exposed to deep cold for extended periods. It’s literally like throwing more wood on a fire.
The cold and hunger together would really cause a feeling of desperation in men not used to it.
@@@@@15. Aeryl
As he explained to Jon, if the current ruler of the Seven Kingdoms refuses to pay, they will seek out the other claimants to the Throne.
So, in order to show everyone that eating dead people is bad, mmkay, they light the culprits on fire so that everybody can enjoy the delicious BBQ smell. That’ll show them.
As to northeners being generally tougher – yea, no. That’s just the usual propaganda. But they are in their own element here, so of course they are much better equipped and adapted.
Exactly. To turn the tables, a Northern army invading Dorne in high summer would not be having a very good time of it.
Iron Bank thinks Stannis will pay more then Cersei if he has the Throne. So, Stannis!
Well, it’s more that they think he’ll pay at all. Cersei’s already announced her intention of defaulting on the debt. Stannis, on the other hand, is seen as a much better credit risk even if you discount the chance of payback to take account of the probability that he’ll never be king, and if you include the additional funding the Bank has agreed to give him. Having a reputation for always paying your debts is an excellent thing. It’s saved Tyrion’s life at least once already, way back in AGOT.
Great commentary this week, both Leigh and commenters.
@20 While it’s true in history that major players can show up at any time, this isn’t a history (as much as Martin might like it to be). It’s still fiction, and as such it’s main purpose is entertainment which means you can be “unrealistic” when writing to better serve the work.
And while I am certainly an advocate of writers writing how they want to write, that doesn’t mean it will appeal to all readers. In general, adding a character so late in the game can be a huge misstep, most often because it will prompt the eight deadly words: “I don’t care what happens to these people”. Which seems a lot like what’s happening here with most readers.
And related to @23, I think plots can be a waste of time if they do not accomplish anything other than evoking apathy in the readers, and do nothing to serve the main plot other than sidetrack it. Sometimes less is more and it’s the job of a writer to edit what really doesn’t need to be there.
Now this isn’t all to say that I hate what Martin’s doing here. I don’t really mind the JonCon storyline. But I do feel similar to Leigh in that the way it is going it seems like it’s going to be an irritating mess no matter what plays out with him and Aegon. If Aegon does end up being some major player — let’s assume the most extreme that he ends up conquering Westeros and marrying Dany — then I will be annoyed for many reasons, least of which that this random guy who showed up two-thirds through the books ended up winning over our other already beloved choices like Tyrion or Jon (or Sansa or Arya or whoever you are rooting for).
But if his story just peters out? Well, I’d be happier there at least. However since it’s Martin I do have faith that his storyline isn’t going “nowhere” — there are already some tenuous threads to Dany’s plot that I think will become more important later.
But really here I think the frustrating part isn’t just this one character, it’s the fact that Martin’s introduced a ton more so late (like Victarion and Quentyn) on top of the already bloated cast of characters. If it was just Aegon I probably wouldn’t be as annoyed/concerned at this point.
But then again, maybe I am just too sensitive to it in this work since book 4 and 5 felt loose and wandering and already instilled the sense of ennui most readers experience. So where I would normally not mind extra characters and stories, maybe my patience is starting to wear thin here.
@8 Allegedly fake Richard Duke of York. There is no proof either way on whether he was or wasn’t who he claimed to be.
When it comes to Aegon, however, I’m sure he is fake, though he believes he is Rhaegar’s son.
I see Aegon as a mix of “Perkin Warbeck” and Henry Tudor – and no, the latter does not mean that I think he’s going to win the throne and rule for decades; some of the spoilery (sort of) reasons include the strong possibility he is a descendant of a line of legitimized bastards who were barred from the throne – Blackfyres/Beauforts) – but if we move away from the history of England, his circumstances also bear strong resemblance to the original False Dmitry, aka Tsar Dmitry I, and while I don’t see Aegon ending either as “Perkin” or Henry, I can see his story developing and ending exactly like Dmitry’s.
@10: Asha is awesome.
And far from making me Not Care About These People, ADWD not only made me care even more for people I already cared for (like Asha but also Jon and Dany, due to trying to do the right thing even while they make mistakes – opposite type mistakes – because they’re human), it also made me incredibly interested in Bran’s storyline the way I hadn’t been before, and it made care a lot for someone I never thought I’d care for – Theon, who I couldn’t stand after A Clash of Kings, but in this book he has an incredible and moving storyline.
And in fact, I’d say that was one really moving family reunion – with a callback to their meeting back in Pyke in ACOK, which couldn’t have been more different – and the line “You have to remember your name” was used perfectly, as it used to be about him being terrified of Ramsay and brainwashed to think of himself as Reek, but now it has obtained a completely different meaning for Theon, as he announces himself as “Theon”. It’s as if he’s now finally learned who he is, after having always struggled to come to terms with his identity crisis, even before Ramsay got his hands on him.
I don’t care about Aegon, he is just a plot device IMO, but JonCon is interesting and sympathetic – because of what I believe about Aegon, I see the story as JonCon’s tragedy, however things turn out for them.
Hi, all–unfortunately, due to unforeseen circumstances, there won’t be a new post this week. Hopefully the Read will be back on track next week (Sept. 24th). Thanks for your patience, in the meantime!
@33 – Re: Asha
I feel that Martin spilled lots ink trying to convince me of the awesomeness of a character involved in a storyline I care little and less about. My main interest in the Ironborn was how their actions illustrated the contrast between Robb’s tactical brilliance and strategic failure. Otherwise I find them all tedious, although I suppose Victarion might still do something useful with Dany’s storyline.
@@@@@35. Tyler Soze
I agree 100%, the chapter where she gets captures is so freaking ridiculous I rolled my eyes quite a few times as it made the Ironborn out to be super peerless warriors each of them killing 8 or 9 Northmen before being overtaken, it was pretty laughable. The rest of her chapters were pretty good though, a nice look at Stannis and how his men see him from someone spending time with them, rather than Davos who has variably spent time in prison and travelling or amongst the lords of the realm.
Did I miss something? No new post today?
Hmmmm.
@37 Tor moderators posted in the spoiler thread that there’s no AROIAF post this week “due to unforeseen circumstances”
Well Auntie Leigh became a real life aunt again last week. So maybe helping the family out has taken more time than planned.
Booo.
I guess it’s okay since we have something like 2 years before the next book, but still, sad. Have a good week Leigh.
I hope everything is okay.
@39 – Was it really a spoiler?
Black_Dread @44: Well, since they also posted it here (Comment #34)…
Hope all is ok leigh we miss you!
I know Clayton Suggs is a loathsome brute with zero redeeming qualities, BUT, no mention, from Leigh or anyone, of his epic badassness taking on the camp invaders by himself? I remember reading it and thinking “there’s a story there” in regards to his history and what brought him to that point.
Is Connington gay?
@48, I was I impressed by Sugg’s willingness to face what could have been an incoming army alone. And so was Asha, both of us reluctantly and grudgingly but still it was badass
Ain’t no party like a Donner Party
@23 Wasn’t Machiavelli’s the Prince a satire?
@24 THANK YOU. What many people seem to miss is that the main theme of A Song Of Ice And Fire seems to be about the danger of extremes. Going too far in ANY DIRECTION in dangerous.