Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Kylo Ren didn’t just worship his long long lost grandfather. He also studied his family’s history, and realized that in addition to emulating Grandpa Vader’s cape and helm, he needs to honor his grandmother, the hair warrior Padme Amidala. Look at that coiffure! He has embraced his follicular destiny, and now looks like a glorious Sith-inspired bird. We’re so pleased that Imgur-er Cyborgcommando0 shared this with the world.
On the real though, I hope that Padme at least comes up for discussion at some point in the new tril. The prequels may be awful and the characters not well developed or executed, but as an idea within the universe, Padme is damn important.
@1, In the Legacy EU, they don’t learn who their mother was for years, and I mean years. It was only because of a malfunction in Artoo, who had put a destructive firewall around his memory banks to protect Luke from the truth that his father killed his mother, that they figure it out.
In the now canon EU, the only person I can think of who may possibly know the truth, would be Ahsoka. And so far, they’ve declined to introduce her.
@2: Obi-Wan also knew about Padmé (and so did Yoda). If they ever decided to bring him back as a force ghost, that option remains open. They did bring back Ewan McGregor for the Rey flashback, after all….
In the current canon, Dr. Aphra knows. One of her missions for Vader involved finding the man who performed Padmé’s autopsy, and confirming that he lied to the Empire about her still being pregnant in death. Though, given the timeline, I doubt Aphra will ever get to share that info with the heroes.
On the other hand, we can’t know that Anakin Skywalker’s ghost didn’t tell his kids about her. Or, since the canon comics keep finding excuses to send Leia to Naboo, maybe she eventually figured out on her own.
Theoretically Artoo/Threepio (depending on how thorough the ‘wipe’ is) could know. And I’m still hoping for the return of the Hayden Force ghost ;) I agree that it would be good to get that continuity though. While I completely understand the dramatic/thematic symbolism of the movies following the Skywalkers and the circular nature of the whole thing, it’s also a little disheartening in a way that Kylo is basically seen as having ‘too much Vader’ in him. Why Vader, and not too much Padme, or Leia, or Han (or Luke, whom he is also related to) or Shmi, etc? Why is Vader – a man he never knew, and was raised under completely different circumstances then him – the ultimate influence?
Certain traits do have some genetic underpinnings, so perhaps the Skywalker clan is just plagued with some type of genetic issues that leads to anger management issues (really, I wish we knew a little more about WHY Kylo seemed to revere his grandfather so much in the first place, and what he hoped to gain from the Dark Side. With Anakin we know it had to do with not being able to accept Padme’s death and an inability to healthily deal with attachments…is there a reason to think Kylo would have the same hang ups, or does he have totally different hang ups? Is he just an example of some disenfranchised (at least in his mind if not for real) young man who joins a hyper nationalist type organization to feel like he ‘belongs’?). He was raised by people who valued freedom and peace. I don’t know if we have enough information yet (maybe some of the other books will shed light on it) to determine if Han and Leia were really just somewhat absent (although I’m sure loving/well meaning) parents and not noticing what went on in their own home, or if they did good jobs but he still just was a ‘bad seed’ because Vader. As a parent you try your hardest to transmit your values to your kids but they are their own people and make their own decisions…
I also wonder at what point this Snoke character came into the picture. Perhaps he got his hooks into him before they realized what was going on and had already poisoned his mind.
But at the same time, it seems a little too much like you can’t escape your family history. Maybe that’s true, but I hope not!
@Lisamarie, I think that was more Han looking for a simple solution to a complex issue. And it had the nifty side effect of keeping him from examining his own actions and facing the problem. But yes, this needs more explanation
Random thought – this probably has no bearing in the canon, but maybe that’s how the old Jedi got in the habit of ‘baby snatching’ and indoctrinating from a young age. Maybe parents had such mixed results with raising Force sensitive children (it’s hard enough to teach my children to regulate their emotions and be empathetic/compassionate WITHOUT them also having huge amounts of innate power) that at some point the Jedi decided they had figured out ‘the way’ to do it and that is part of why they decided to just get them while they were young and raise them in a very regulated fashion.
Not saying it’s the right thing to do, but just a thought I had.
Hmm, really weird – I just left a second comment and it replaced my old comment. I don’t think I was in edit mode…
Anyway, what comment 7 actually used to say was something like:
@6 – I actually just had this exact same thought. It’s easy for Han to say ‘he’s descended from Vader’ and that’s the cause of it, but is that REALLY the issue? The question is if the *movie* is also going to put forth this view. There is probably a little something to it – if for no other reason than the psychological allure.
Presumably (assuming we’re not going with the ‘magical Vader gene’ explanation) it would have been possible for Han and Leia to raise a child that does not turn to the Dark Side; it wasn’t just inevitable. (And, presumably, whatever upbringing Kylo had may not have resulted in the same thing in another family; I also doubt that Han and Leia were just inherently bad parents). How do two famous, busy, important people with a mixed legacy and various galactic responsibilities manage to raise a child that doesn’t repeat the mistakes of his ancestors?
Which then makes me a bit obsessed with the question of, what was the real factor, and the turning point of all of this? Is there a point they can look back at and say, ‘this is what we should have done differently?’. Perhaps not, as humans are an aggregate of many things, but I suppose the reason I am interested in this question is having kids of my own and trying to do my best to raise them to be compassionate, responsible people that don’t have all the same flaws I do (I can already see that my oldest has a similar temperament to me). I know I won’t do a perfect job, but I’m hoping I can at least mitigate the damage and intervene appropriately if it looks like things are heading down the wrong path.
It’s probably just a call-back to A New Hope, when Beru says “He has too much of his father in him,” and Owen replies, “That’s what I’m afraid of.”
@1 – Briony: Yes, please.
@2 – Aeryl: What do you mean they haven’t introduced Ahsoka? She’s in Rebels. Of course, I doubt she’ll make it to the ANH era alive…
@5 – Lisamarie: Kylo is a violent psychopath like his grandfather, not like his grandmother, father, mother, etc. But let’s wait for the next episode to know WHY he turned to the dark side. I have posited that ultra dooper strength in the Force skips generations, and that it also leaves you more prone to feeling EVERYTHING and raising the risk of you turning to the dark side.
@7 – Lisamarie: We did discuss that being one of the reasons of snatchign the FS kids so young in another thread on the site, I think you were on that one too.
@10 – I feel really dense, but what is FS? I’m sure it’s some really obvious abbreviation, but as there were like 5 threads we were all on I don’t remember everything from them :)
Somebody on one of those threads actually posted an opposite idea, which was that Kylo actually ISN’T that strong in the Force (or at least, not compared to Anakin/Luke), and that’s part of where all his angst comes from and why he was tempted to the Dark Side in the first place. I think that’s an interesting twist.
And yeah, I get that he’s most like his grandfather, that’s the point, I’m just wondering why THAT is the relative he took the most after or had the ‘most of’. I do believe a lot of our personalities (perhaps more than we care to admit) – skills, temperament, etc – are inherited (although environment can also play a huge role in determining how those get expressed or what we make of it) so it’s not like it’s out of the question or anything that he would have a similar personality to him. It’s just rather unfortunate that he made the same choices.
@11, Force sensitive
Duhhhh :)
It would be nice if we could use Kylo Ren’s desire to connect with his family to learn more about Padme. Her movies didn’t really do her character justice.
@10, That’s my point. She’s one of the few commonly known characters who knew Anakin and Padme, but they aren’t introducing her in the modern trilogy. So I don’t see how they can inform the characters about this.
Turkey anus hat?
I was assuming that because Ben Solo’s parents were both heroes of the resistance etc. that he felt that he had to go completely the other way, and ended up being seduced by the dark side.
@11 – Lisamarie: Having Kylo not be strong in the Force would have been an interesting twist, but the movie kinda shows us he’s pretty strong. Or it could be that he’s not that strong, but he at least found a few specific skills that he honed (stopping blaster bolts, absorbing energy blasts, probing minds forcefully) and relies on those. It’ll be something to watch out for.
And yeah, it’s rather unfortunate that he’s followed down Anakin’s path, but if he had followed Luke’s or Leia’s… then there would have been no family conflict. An interesting twist would have been for him to follow Han’s path; the comic Star Wars Legacy (no longer canon) had Cade Skywalker, a descendant of Luke (one hundred years after ROTJ). He was one of the few survivors of another Jedi purge, and ended up with a gang of pirates, then becoming a mercenary and smuggler, who did drugs to drown out Luke’s Force ghost. He of course then begins a slow climb back toward heroicness. :)
@15 – Aeryl: Force ghost? An Ahsoka Force ghost would make a lot of people squee in pleasure.
Yes, I was thinking along those lines – he has a few unique skills but is ultimately projecting a front (or, he’s only able to be sufficiently strong when drawing on his anger/Dark side).
LOL – well, I suppose my preferred end for these characters would be them living out their lives on a resort planet somewhere but that’s kind of a boring movie :D It’s hard to say what I would have really thought about some other type of story (instead of the family drama having them fighting against some outside force, or maybe being the family drama be about somebody falling/being tempted but not having gotten there yet) because that’s not the story we got. It’s easy to say, ‘well, they should have done X’ instead when presented with a fully formed story. I guess all I can say is that it’s not what I thought was going to happen!
I’ve heard of the Legacy comics and good things about them but I haven’t read them yet. I have a New Year’s Resolution to finish off the bits of the Legend canon that I didn’t get to. It’s possibly a bit dark for me but it also sounds really interesting especially as it’s so far in the future. Poor Jedi can’t catch a break, hah.
I have mixed feelings on the Clone Wars series/Ahsoka as a character (it’s kind of growing on me) but I think it might actually be kind of cool to see her in the movies in some form (or some reference to her). Agreed that I’m not sure how that would work out though.
Do read the Legacy comics, I recommend them. And I don’t know if you read the X-Wing comics and novels, another must.
@18, There are plenty of long lived species, why would she have to be dead?
Who said anything about natural lifespan? I think it’s highly likely that Vader kills her before ANH.
Maybe she got her head tails removed and she’s Maz Kanata ;) Hahaha. (I’m joking, joking – plus, Ahsoka wouldn’t be a thousand years old anyway. Unless that was an exaggeration.).
(Heh, l the more I think about it, the more I think that would actually be kind of cool and explain her not being a Jedi yet still knowing the Force and having a reason to have/be interested in Anakin’s lightsaber. And by that I mean not that she got her head tails removed (doubt that’s possible) but that the character had been written in such a way that it could feasibly have been her. Then again, maybe it would be kind of a fanservicey thing and not actually cool…)
Yes, I LOVED the X-Wing novels! I don’t read a lot of the comics (I don’t have time to follow the novels AND comics) although there are a few select ones I’ve read/am reading (the Ulic Qel-Droma ones, Dark Empire, Soldier for the Empire, etc).