Skip to content

Forbidden Love, Not Forbidden Lust: Of Course Jedi Can Have Sex

19
Share

Forbidden Love, Not Forbidden Lust: Of Course Jedi Can Have Sex

Home / Forbidden Love, Not Forbidden Lust: Of Course Jedi Can Have Sex
Column Star Wars

Forbidden Love, Not Forbidden Lust: Of Course Jedi Can Have Sex

By

Published on December 29, 2016

19
Share
can Jedi have sex Obi-Wan Kenobi sexy lightsaber

Please enjoy this encore post on the love lives of Jedi, originally published January 2016.

When we talk about the fall of the Jedi during the Republic Era, it’s common for people to cite the Jedi Order’s many flaws as at least part of the reason why they were wiped out. After all, they did wind up participating heavily in a galactic war that was specifically designed to lead to their destruction while a Sith Lord operated right in front of their Force-sensitive faces. Perhaps stagnation led to this unfortunate short-sightedness—we’re led to believe that tenets of Jedi “culture” (for lack of a better term) have been in place since their relative inception, thousands of years ago.

But what baffles me is how everyone usually translates this knightly code into an adamant certainty that Jedi never knocked anything more than their lightsabers together.

What I’m saying is… Jedi totally had sex. The idea that they couldn’t, or were forbade from trying it out doesn’t make any logistical sense. Just, follow me down a weird rabbit hole here—

The general consensus that Jedi were celibate seems to stem from confusion over Anakin and Padme’s relationship. We know what they’re doing is forbidden. We know that they’ll both get in trouble for being married, and smooching, and having babies. But we don’t actually know the specifics of why, beyond Anakin’s little talk with Padme in Attack of the Clones where she asks him about whether or not Jedi are allowed to love. Let’s have a second look at that dialogue:

Padme: Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi.

Anakin: Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi’s life. So, you might say, we are encouraged to love.

Anakin Skywalker, Padme, Episode II, Star Wars: Attack of the Clones

Notice, nowhere is this discussion does Anakin say…

  • Attraction is forbidden
  • Lust is forbidden
  • Getting my jollies is forbidden
  • Using “my Jedi starfighter and its hyperdrive ring” as a topic for tasteless, naughty jokes is forbidden

So the question is: Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?

Because here’s the thing—and it feels weird having to bring this up at all—there is no reason why the rules listed above preclude Jedi from any sort of sexual activity. We all know that, right? We understand that one does not need to be emotionally devoted/attached to someone in order to sleep with them? (You don’t need to feel possessive toward someone, either.) Sure, certain activities before, during, and after sex can lead to bonding, but it’s not a given and it’s not a prerequisite.

Since I’m sure that most of us are aware of this fact, my next assumption is that people think the Jedi are against sex due to one of two inklings: (1) the thought that Jedi must be ascetics due to the duty-bound lives they lead, or (2) connecting the Jedi to Earthly monastic orders. Where the former is concerned, the Jedi aren’t a hedonistic group and they don’t wander around burdened by non-essentials, sure. But couching sex as the same brand of non-essential as useless possessions or bad drug habits adheres to the idea that sex is a needless thingamajig with no measurable value to a person’s wellbeing—which is patently untrue. Sex is healthy, both physically and mentally, for most people, provided that everyone involved is enthusiastic on the subject and well taken care of. (There are obviously exceptions to this—I’m not trying to imply that every human being must have sex to be happy.)

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Duchess Satine, Clone Wars
I am very concerned about you. This is my concerned face. Can we head back to your place where I will continue to look very concerned?

We are set in this idea that Jedi are warrior-monk types, who lead serious, faith-driven lives. But we encounter enough Jedi during the prequel era (many more when you take a look at the Clone Wars cartoon) to know that living a life devoted to the Force is not a uniform pursuit. Many of these knights take great liberties in their interpretations of doctrine—Qui-Gon Jinn being Example #1 on that chart. Personalities run the gamut, and so do techniques out in the field. So this idea of Jedi as “super being faith warriors who have no desires at all beyond their service” is a limited vision of them at best, which doesn’t begin to account for differing needs by species; after all, anyone could be a Jedi.

Still, we might be inclined to assume against the possibility of Jedi gettin’ it on simply because religious orders in our own world typically take oaths of celibacy, and the Jedi are based on an amalgam of world religions. But this ignores one key difference between the Jedi and your average monk or nun on this planet: Jedi are recruited in infancy. They don’t take their vows as teenagers or adults who have already had some opportunity to deal with these ideas in the outside world. They don’t have parents sitting them down for “the talk.” They have a temple, and teachers and peers, for the entirety of their lives.

Qui-Gon and Shmi Skywalker, Episode I, Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
I am super sorry to be taking your kid away. Also, you are a fine-looking woman.

The Order sounds like it’s full up with rules and codes and mantras where all that messiness is concerned. But as far as we know, all of those rules are focused solely on preventing one-on-one emotional attachments which can lead to possessive thoughts and to emotions associated with the dark side. So, what is more effective for the Order in that regard—telling kids to tamp down urges and wayward thoughts and refusing to address them in a healthy manner, or discussing them with proper guidance and support, and assuring the Padawans that it’s fine for them to feel that way? That, provided they don’t take those feelings and translate them into darker, more possessive ideas, it’s okay if they decide to try some stuff out?

It’s not simply healthier that way—it’s easier to manage. If you refuse to sweep Padawan puberty under the rug, you mitigate other messier risks. You know, like, pregnancy. Because abstinence-only education does not work, kids. (Before it’s suggested, no, they don’t want the Jedi to breed to make tiny Jedi; Force-sensitive kids can come from anywhere and don’t require a Force-sensitive forbear.)

Yoda, Clone Wars
The presence of the candles is open to interpretation.

By the way, this means that half of the convos Yoda is having in those shadowy confessional apartments of his in the Jedi Temple? Yup. He’s giving uncomfortable dad advice to confused teens. And probably trying not to giggle because he knows full well that his giggling unnerves the older kids. Mace Windu probably opted out of having to give those talks after a certain point—he’d just rather not. And Force help whoever got their birds and bees explanation from Quinlan Voss; you know that wasn’t helpful. On the other hand, I bet Luminara was great at it.

Never mind the kiddies, this makes even more sense for the older Jedi in the Order—they’re often away on missions, either working side by side, or encountering new peoples and making friends across the galaxy. Are you seriously telling me that Qui-Gon Jinn never made a move on anyone? Ever? I find that harder to believe than the idea of Ewoks successfully wedging spears through stormtrooper armor. If you’re a truly centered Jedi Master, there’s no reason why a little R&R during a spaceport layover is going to get in the way of your lifelong dedication to the Force.

If we want to the discuss the various ways that the Jedi Order failed and brought about their own downfall, I’m all for that. (Meet me at the bar later, it’s one of my favorite topics to rant about loudly among innocent bystanders.) They made many mistakes in the days of the dwindling Republic, and Anakin Skywalker was honestly just the tip of a very large, icky iceberg. The insistence that there is no possible way to sort out romantic inclinations from possessiveness is something that I’ve always felt bears a closer examination. But deciding that No Romantic Attachment = No Sex seems needlessly risky and simplistic at best.

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Asajj Ventress, Clone Wars
These two are ALWAYS flirting.

So, let’s be realistic about this—Jedi had sex. (We’re not allowed to hear tell of it because we’re in the realm of family entertainment don’tcha know.) Bringing that to the table adds a whole new level of complexity to Jedi culture, and is something that should at least be considered when examining their social structure. Don’t you want to know more about the legendary exploits of Obi-Wan Kenobi? The really legendary ones?

I sure do.

Emmet Asher-Perrin is pretty sure that she hasn’t yet written a 100,000 word fanfic titled “The Really Legendary Exploits of Obi-Wan Kenobi,” and she would like to apologize for the depriving that world of that. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.

About the Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin

Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin is the News & Entertainment Editor of Reactor. Their words can also be perused in tomes like Queers Dig Time Lords, Lost Transmissions: The Secret History of Science Fiction and Fantasy, and Uneven Futures: Strategies for Community Survival from Speculative Fiction. They cannot ride a bike or bend their wrists. You can find them on Bluesky and other social media platforms where they are mostly quiet because they'd rather talk to you face-to-face.
Learn More About Emmet
Subscribe
Notify of
Avatar


19 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Avatar
8 years ago

:)

Avatar
8 years ago

I always assumed that even if they had rules against it, they still got it on every now and then.  After all, Catholic priests take vows of celibacy and still fall off the wagon occasionally. 

Its human nature.  And don’t even try to tell me that all those alien Jedi conformed physically and mentally to the human standards.

Erkhyan
8 years ago

You just had to put the mental picture of Quinlan Vos dispensing relationship/sex advice in my mind.

You just had to.

I’ll send you the bill for that giggling fit.

Avatar
Austin
8 years ago

Instead of a whole article, you can simply quoted George Lucas himself:

“Jedi Knights aren’t celibate—the thing that is forbidden is attachments and possessive relationships.”

Avatar
Warwick The Wild
8 years ago

I’m here to be that guy.

So, what is more effective for the Order in that regard—telling kids to tamp down urges and wayward thoughts and refusing to address them in a healthy manner, or discussing them with proper guidance and support, and assuring the Padawans that it’s fine for them to feel that way?

Counterpoint: a) the old Jedi Order embraced an extremely high level of detachment from the world and probably discouraged sex even if it did not outright forbid it. b) the old Jedi Order was arguably dysfunctional, as evidenced by its inability to effectively handle students that didn’t enter at an extremely young age.

The ‘no attachments’ thing is clearly unhealthy already. “Don’t form any strong emotional attachments to anyone” is – for the human members, anyway – already an express ticket to crazytown (I wonder how many depressed Jedi there were). I think it’s entirely plausible that puberty was handled by encouraging discipline and self-control.

Avatar
8 years ago

#5 – Seconded.

I think the image people have of Jedi as celibate is because the “love ’em and leave ’em’ playboy (or playgirl) attitude doesn’t fit their role as knights committed to the light side of the Force. Our culture these days insists that separating sexual relations from emotional relationships is normal (and ignores the completely foreseeable consequences that result). I know there are some people (both male and female) who can do this. I know there are a lot more people who lie to themselves about being able to separate the two. The reality is that for most people the two aren’t separate. Either the Jedi knew this, and discouraged physical relationships, or they were a bunch of sociopaths willing to inflict emotional damage on others just to have a good time now and then. 

* Please note that I’m not saying that people who can enjoy sex without it being part of a relationship are sociopaths. I’m saying that a person who is that way and doesn’t care about whether the other person in a physical relationship feels the same is exhibiting sociopathic behavior.

Avatar
8 years ago

Well, this is an easier to question to think about then the fact that slavery is perfectly acceptable to the Jedi Order. I mean after all, they’re the one using a massive army of slave soldiers. Which no one questions the ethics or morality of in any of the material. I’d say the Separatists are better, but then their droids clearly have concepts of pain, fear and death. So, yay, more slavery.

Avatar
8 years ago

“they don’t want the Jedi to breed to make tiny Jedi”

Maybe they do. I hate to bring this up, but MIDI-CHLORIANS! If midi-chlorians are in any way similar to genetic material, then it would make sense for Jedi to spread the wealth. Love ’em and leave ’em would be right up their alley, since you can’t really have attachments to children you never met. They get the benefit of spreading midi-chlorians throughout the galaxy without the problems of raising Jedi children from birth in the temple.

Please understand, I’m not advocating the position. I really like Star Wars, but I agree that there are serious issues with how the Jedi philosophy has been expounded.

Avatar
Kasiki
8 years ago

In discussions with friends over this it seemed that celibacy was more a symptom of the teachings and not directly addressed by them.  To that end many things are possible.

Avatar
8 years ago

Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?

I think because it is uncomfortable to imagine a situation where brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner are permissible, but any deeper commitment and affection is forbidden.  

It also means that you have to either completely divorce sex from reproduction, or else you have Jedi possibly having children but not having the protective, intense relationship between parent and child – essentially neglecting the children emotionally.  

It also suggests an awkwardness to any relationships with non-Jedi, who don’t have such limitations.  

And it is just as arbitrary and horrible limitation to children brought into the Jedi, to say that their only sex must be in brief, non-committed relationships, as to say they can’t have sex at all.  What about those who want love and commitment?  They’re being set up for an emotional frustration as profound as demanding celibacy from those not inclined to it causes physical frustration.

The only model I could see maybe working would be something like the historical  Oneida Community.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community  But that was a community of adults who chose that type of relationship, not people who were born into it and expected to live that way – it is noteworthy that the community did not extend into a second generation. 

They Jedi code seems to demand a sort of emotional celibacy, which is the truth behind speculation of physical celibacy. 

Avatar
8 years ago

I think the downfall of the Jedi started when Odan-Urr came back from the Great Hyperspace War as a hero, rather than getting hustled into therapy. He takes the very understandable trauma from facing down the Sith and rewrites the Jedi Code from:

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.

to:

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

If the Jedi had a policy of putting all their romantically entangled members into relationship counseling and requiring that their partners attend the Centaxday evening “so you’re dating a Jedi” support groups, things would have played out rather differently.

Avatar
Sibylla
8 years ago

While I do like this write up I’m going to geek out here for just a sec on the notion of attachment. While you’re suggesting a separation between 1) the sort of healthy physical maintenance of the body that includes sex and 2) romance, marriage, and romantic love, etc. I think you’ve kind of missed the point. Both of those are founded on attachments to the bodily existence. And admittedly I’m not as embedded in Star Wars fandom so I don’t know the exact conversations about Jedi as celibate, but even Anikin’s quote above can be read with that understanding.

Attachment as it’s discussed in Jedi philosophy is far closer to attachment as it’s discussed in Buddhist practice, so I was bewildered why your article didn’t mention the connection at all.  Of course there are differences, BUT, the notion that attachment and possession are forbidden can be seen as part of a constellation of sensations that are part of bodily existence — things that draw attention away from or distract from being one with the force — just like in Buddhism those things are distractions that are produced by the body to make humans ignore the possibility for enlightenment. Enlightenment is only possible once one renounces attachment, renounces the world, renounces physical passions (including desires for rich or elaborate food, rich clothing, sumptuous lodgings, sex and love both lusty and reverent, and the desire to do thinks like continue one’s line through children).

It’s not that Jedi can’t, it’s that Jedi choose not to.  And Jedi kids are like kids who are apprenticed to Buddhist temples too. It’s an little bit of an appropriative philosophy, though I guess since George Lucas calls himself a Buddhist Methodist it’s his to work with.

Avatar
8 years ago

Again, this is just my previous comment, since it’s easier to copy paste than to re-formulate what are basically the same ideas…and this always leads to interesting discussion so I want to stay on the comment thread :)

Oh, I totally want to meet you at the bar for this, haha.  

I also am fairly sure I remember George Lucas saying at some point that the Jedi were forbidden from MARRIAGE, not necessarily sex.  Which is not to say that I think the ideal Jedi is just sleeping around with everybody to the point where they have no sense of self control (or are just using people for pleasure since they know they can’t commit), but there’s a pretty wide spectrum between that and no sex.  Not to mention, in the (no longer canon) works, it was pretty clear that ancient Jedi were married.

When I thought about this a lot in the past, my conception was that there very well could be some high level Jedi that choose celibate lives because that is how they focus the best on the Force and want to completely devote themselves to service, more esoteric things, exhibit that type of self control, etc.   (And there probably is also a distinction between people who may not be against sex per se, but would still choose to remain single for the Order or so they could more widely serve all and have as few of their own ‘interests’ to distract from that).

But then you’d also get lots of Jedi who just would choose a happy medium (perhaps married but still more tightly affiliated with the Temple – because I never agreed that was inherently bad either), or maybe would never totally finish their training, but go off and live ‘in the world’ and have other jobs etc, only coming back occasionally (kind of like Benedictine oblates who are basically laypeople, haha).  Of course, in my conception, the main point was that these were not baby-snatched people who literally have no choice in a celibate life or not.  

But, while I never really bought the whole ‘a good Jedi is a celibate Jedi’ thing (nor do I think George Lucas necessarily intended that), I was never a fan of the whole ‘celibacy is the reason the OT Jedi were bad’ (which I don’t see you saying but have seen elsewhere). I don’t think celibacy is an inherently bad state at all, and in fact I think can be a perfectly legitimate and beneficial vocation – for those who are called to it/choose it.  

Although, no, I don’t find it hard to believe (at least in general) that Qui-Gon or any other particular Jedi never made moves on anybody because I don’t think that’s an inherently unbelievable thing, in an inherently general sense.   Not knowing what Qui-Gon’s particular views on sex are, I guess I couldn’t tell you if I believe it for him specifically:)  “If you’re a truly centered Jedi Master, there’s no reason why a little R&R during a spaceport layover is going to get in the way of your lifelong dedication to the Force.” – I suppose this would be up to a particular Jedi’s interpretation of various things.  If they view sex is primarily a physical/fun thing that’s more or less separate from the spiritual (whatever that means for a denizen of the Star Wars universe) then maybe it wouldn’t matter to them – although on the other hand, if you are one of the more ascetically minded Jedi, you may just, on principle, still avoid it the same way you might avoid rich foods, etc. Maybe there are some Jedi who are more hedonistic because they celebrate the physical manifestations of life/the Force and view the spiritual/physical as integrated, so no problem there for them.  But if for some people it’s a more significant thing that unites the physical and spiritual but also has some type of more lasting significance, then maybe they would be more cautious about something that casual*, since I think little moments CAN get in the way of whatever we are dedicating ourselves to. But all of that is going to vary for a particular Jedi so that’s just a long way of saying some Jedi probably had sex and some probably didn’t and t here’s probably a lot of room within Jedi philosophy for what is acceptable, as long as you’re not flat out using other people. So I can find the whole spectrum believable.

(*This is my own personal belief on the topic but I’m trying not to impose my own beliefs on that into a fictional universe ;) )

Avatar
8 years ago

@7 – Karen Traviss’s Clone Wars books are amongst my favorites for addressing this very topic.  ANd so far, what I’ve seen of the Clone Wars series (which IS canon) does I think in some ways address it (or not outright).

But I agree with you about the slavery – although I guess the question is if Tatooine is truly part of the Republic or not.  Shmi says it’s not but she might mean that more metaphorically.

@5 and 6 – I totally get what you are saying.  I think it’s easy to believe that the Jedi WOULD insist on that kind of detatchment, perhaps in a heavy handed way.  Note that this does not mean I think the concept of celibacy is inherently unhealthy – just that I can believe the Jedi (or at least some Jedi) would go about it unhealithiy!

@10 – also good points. I also wonder about the idea of sexual relationships between a person who can use the Force and a person who can’t. Of course we would hope that a Jedi would be above mind tricks, etc…but honestly, that’s a skeevy line of thought to go down. And it’s possible a Jedi may do it somewhat subconsciously. So again, may be best to discourage it entirely.

@12 – and more good points :)

Avatar
jlassen
8 years ago

I had always assumed the jedi were like the spartans in this reguard.

Avatar
Cybersnark
8 years ago

We also “know” (from the EU, but it makes logical sense) that the Order is okay with certain species/culture-specific exceptions; Ki-Adi-Mundi had several wives and children (because Cereans have a population imbalance and are under a social obligation to reproduce). Plo Koon also had a niece (that he openly acknowledged as such) in the Order.

One of the more Shakespearean elements of the prequels IMHO is that Anakin & Padme’s relationship probably would have been accepted (albeit grudgingly) if A) they’d been open about it and B) Palpatine hadn’t been whispering poison into Anakin’s ears.

Anthony Pero
8 years ago

So the question is: Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?

Because for many people, the concept of sex without any form of attachment is unknown, or even vulgar.

Avatar
8 years ago

I think the real source of the confusion, unfortunately, is simply that George Lucas, when he was working on the prequels, needed to have a Marcia or Lawrence around to help straighten out his thinking and/or explain it to the audience.  I don’t want that to come across as another example of George-bashing, because I really consider it a small tragedy that there are a lot of good ideas buried in the prequel trilogy that somehow got muddled in execution, and I wish it weren’t so.

I think what Lucas meant to convey was probably that Jedi are prohibited from jealousy, and maybe that marriage isn’t in the cards for them but relationships based on selfless partnerships are still possible.  And I think he probably meant for Anakin and Padme’s tragedy to be that they–mostly him–were too immature to attempt the kind of relationship they committed themselves to.  I have heard that scenes got dropped from Revenge of the Sith that would have depicted Anakin suspecting Padme and Obi-Wan of an affair, and that this was probably something else that Lucas meant to convey more strongly.

Setting aside Lucas’ problems with dialogue and working with actors, it probably doesn’t help that he launched himself into a story aimed at divergent audiences–kids and grown-ups–and for the former you might feel pressure to express sexual ideas in the context of marriage, which leaves the latter scratching their heads over the hows and whys of adult characters attempting to have a “secret marriage” that couldn’t possibly be hidden from any of their closest associates.  Oh, and then to throw jealousy and suspicions of adultery into the mix, something the adult audience might grok but you might want to obscure from the child audience, and so you end up with this sort of weird talking around a clumsily-set-up subtext? 

It’s a tough task; not necessarily an insurmountable one (just watch some Hays Code-era movies), but… but I wish Lucas had sought help to accomplish it.  He’s a very capable director in many, many underappreciated respects, and an exceptional film editor; but the story he wanted to tell in the prequels is one that, I fear, played to his weaknesses more than his strengths.

Anyway, so yeah: I think it’s kind of easy to figure out that Jedi ought to be having sex and sex–and love–aren’t what Lucas meant to be talking about in Attack of the Clones and Sith, but he got himself into a messy corner.  That’s my opinion, anyway.

Avatar
Roxana
8 years ago

So basically casual sex is okay but commitment is totally forbidden. Interesting moral reversal there.

Seriously, don’t we all know this is an issue because so many Jedi are so utterly hitable?