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Rereading Frank Herbert’s Dune: Dune, Part Fourteen

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Rereading Frank Herbert’s Dune: Dune, Part Fourteen

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Rereads and Rewatches Dune

Rereading Frank Herbert’s Dune: Dune, Part Fourteen

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Published on February 28, 2017

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Cover of Dune

This week we’re going to fight in a gladiator arena (and cheat), and attend a funeral.

Index to the reread can be located here! And don’t forget this is a reread, which means that any and all of these posts will contain spoilers for all of Frank Herbert’s Dune series. If you’re not caught up, keep that in mind.

*     *     *

God created Arrakis to train the faithful.

—from “The Wisdom of Muad’Dib” by the Princess Irulan

Summary

The cave is unsealed for their trek to the sietch and Jamis’s funeral rights have begun with chanting. Jessica is deeply cognizant of how uncomfortable she is in the stillsuit, and remembers that Stilgar told her that the suit would become more comfortable once she adjusts to a lower level of water in her body. She wants to be sure that she warns Paul about the Fremen women—he must be reminded that one of them might make a suitable concubine, but not a wife. Paul approaches and explains that they have asked him what is to be done with Jamis’s water; a person’s water belongs to their tribe, but this is forfeit if they die by combat because the person who fought them will need to replenish their water due to fighting without stillsuits. Paul doesn’t want the water, but Jessica tells him that he will take it. Water is more valuable than money here and Paul should not break with their traditions.

The Stilgar has the friends of Jamis step forward and circle what is left of Jamis. Stilgar tells them all of a memory where Jamis pulled him to safety, then takes his robe. He takes other items for Jamis’s woman and guards. He takes his coffee service marker to give to Paul in the ritual later. He takes the crysknife handle for the funeral plain. In turn, each friend of Jamis shares a memory of the man and takes a possession of his. Paul realizes that they expect him to do so, though he cannot see how he can call the man his friend, having taken his life. Jessica stands and takes a handkerchief from the body, saying that she was a friend of Jamis and his spirit spared her son. Paul realizes what he must do and takes Jamis’s baliset (it reminds him of Gurney), saying that Jamis taught him that when you kill you pay for it. He cries and they are astounded that he gives moisture to the dead. Jessica realizes that in a place where water is so scarce, Paul has given a sacred gift. The Fremen begin to touch his face.

What is left is Jamis’s water, which Chani blesses and then offers to Paul. He comes forward to accept the water, each amount of it represented by a different metal ring known as watercounters. She then tells him that she will teach him how to carry the rings tied together so that they don’t rattle. In the meantime, Paul asks if she will carry them, and Chani looks to Stilgar. He reminds her that Paul does not know their ways yet, and asks her to do this for him for now. Paul realizes that he missed something, and figures out that asking a woman to carry watercounters for you is a courtship gesture. The group head move further underground to an area where the air is moist and sealed off. Jessica realizes that there are windtraps there, set up by the Fremen. They empty the water into a cache where it is carefully measured. There are millions of decaliters there, and Stilgar tells Jessica that they have thousands of these caches and only a few of them know where they all are. None of them would take from those caches no matter how in need they were of water.

They plan to someday use these caches to change the face of Arrakis. To ground the water with grass and trees, and leave only the desert for the maker and the spice. Jessica sees that this is Liet’s work, and that the Fremen are perfectionists in the pursuit of these dreams. She knows they will be useful to Paul. Paul keeps thinking of the coming jihad, though, knowing that even if he were to die, the thing he senses is coming would continue through his mother and unborn sister. He plays Jamis’s baliset for the group, an old song of Gurney’s that is romantic. Jessica wonders why he would play that for Chani, concerned again. Paul thinks that his mother is his enemy and that he must be wary of her.

Commentary

These points in the narrative are never high on action, but retain a great deal of intrigue to my mind because all sections where we learn about Fremen customs and planning are relevant and also beautiful in their own manner. Herbert’s interest in ecology and history are always present in his writing, but I think his anthropological leanings are equally fascinating. He enjoys exploring culture from the inside out.

The funeral rites are a unique moment to explore Fremen traditions and beliefs. Like many funerals around the world, the Fremen share stories about the deceased—though in their case, they seem to focus on tales where the deceased did something to aid them, tying into the idea that Fremen exist to serve the good of their tribes. There is no room for aggravation now that Jamis is gone. He may have been a hothead in life, but his passing is marked with nothing but respect. Especially from Paul, as the man who took his life.

Then his water is specifically accounted for (though we pointedly do not see how it is done here), and Paul is given counters as a form of safeguard. The system is genius on a number of fronts, and while Jessica knows that Kynes is behind the plans to reshape Arrakis, the outline of how this all works must be Fremen by design; the watercounters, the reservoirs to store the water so that one is not obligated to carry it everywhere, the precise measurements of a person’s water and the ability to break a person down to nothing but that substance. These things had to exist before Kynes and his father arrived and someone had to create them.

I do wonder a bit at how Paul’s prescience comes off to him in moments where he cannot see clearly. He thinks at first that he can see paths to Gruney Halleck again, and worries if there’s something he might do that could prevent their meeting again. But then he later wonders if Gurney is dead. Either this is an error on Herbert’s part, or Gurney is literally occupying the place of Schrödinger’s Cat in Paul’s mind—he could be dead or alive at this moment, because Paul cannot be certain of how clear his prescience is at any given time. He thinks on the flow of time in these particular instances, how it’s sort of like an ocean, but he is in different parts it at any given moment, sometimes able to see beyond the crest of one wave to another, and sometimes not.

We get glimmerings of things to come here, particularly Paul’s relationship with Chani, which he can’t seem to help falling into it already by accidentally asking her to carry the watercounters. But we also get Paul’s upset toward his mother, who he believes is his enemy in these moments. He decides this is because she gave birth to him, which seems an unfair assessment until we consider that this might be his prescience gaining a little insight into another being that Jessica will give birth to—his sister. So while Paul’s hot and cold feelings toward his mother seem perhaps unfounded, when you take Alia into account, his distress makes a bit more sense.

*     *     *

The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

—from “Collected Sayings of Muad’Dib” by the Princess Irulan

Summary

It is Fyed-Rautha’s birthday and he has killed his 100th slave-gladiator in the arena. The Baron has made the whole event a holiday on Geidi Prime, and slapped a fresh coat of paint on the place, giving the people a day of rest. But Count Fenring notes how run-down the planet is. He waits to meet Feyd with his wife, and the baron presents the boy to him. Feyd doesn’t like the count at all, thinks the man very adept at saying things in such a manner that they are insulting, but fall short of a person’s ability to say anything against him. He tells the baron that it’s impressive that his heir is such a fine looking boy given his stock (but in a slightly politer fashion, of course). Feyd is taken with his wife and says that he would make a kill in the arena in her name with her permission. She does not give it, and the baron tells Feyd to leave and gets his rest before the match.

The count asks to speak with the baron privately and his wife leaves. He directs them to a cone of silence where no one will hear them and tells the count that the Emperor is not happy with the way he handled the Sardaukar, and that Rabban is not seeing properly to the Fremen problem. Baron Harkonnen insists that most of them must be dead because the southern reaches are uninhabitable, but Count Fenring is adamant that someone on Arrakis (he hesitantly calls them a smuggler) did a flyover of the area and saw vegetation. The baron does not believe it.

The conversation turns to questions about the baron’s accounting and the fact that the Emperor is displeased that Paul and Jessica were lost in the takeover. Baron Harkonnen insists that nothing could be done about it, and they engage in a back-and-forth for leverage. The baron says that he could reveal the Sardaukar’s part in his plans, but Fending tells him that the Sardaukar would claim that they acted without orders for the chance to fight the Fremen. The baron takes no issue with having his books checked; he knows they are in order, and after bearing up under that scrutiny, any accusation leveled at him afterward would not seem credible once he’d already been vindicated. He asks why the Emperor wants the Fremen eradicated and Fenring tells him that the Sardaukar merely want practice killing. The baron suggests that he might want to use Arrakis as a prison planet to get more money out of it, and the count tells him it would be an unwise move without the Emperor’s permission.

Fearing asks after Hawat, who was supposed to be dead according to what the baron had told the Sardaukar. The baron insists that he needed a Mentat and that the man was useful. Count Fenring tells him to kill the man, but the baron refuses unless he gets sealed orders from the Emperor himself on that account. Fearing makes it clear that the Emperor is concerned about Baron Harkonnen’s behavior and is considering charging him with treason. The baron pretends to be worried and hurt over the words, knowing that if he were ever formally charged, all the Great Houses would flock to him and he could overtake the throne. They head out to the arena with the spectators and Fenring makes it clear that he’s come to observe Feyd-Rautha as the Emperor has not yet sanctioned him as the baron’s successor. The baron is irritated that the Emperor had promised him free selection in that regard.

Feyd-Rautha enters the arena with his two knives; white for poison, black for purity. He dedicates the fight to his uncle and thinks of the true plan thought up by Hawat—the black dagger does have poison. The slave-gladiator in this fight will not be drugged the way the others always are, and when it’s discovered, all eyes will be on the slavemaster who will be killed so that Feyd can promote his own man to the position. There is a key word that will immobilize the man on utterance. The slave turns out to an old Atreides fighter, and Feyd wonders if this was a plan within a plan on Hawat’s part, but goes into the fight anyway. He has poisoned barbs as well and entered the arena as the slave challenges him, not usual for his fights.  Everyone knows that the man is not drugged. Feyd buries both barbs in the man despite his clear skill as a fighter.

Feyd attacks the man with the blade that the slave believes carries the poison while tying to get a hit in the black blade that truly carried the poison. But the man has lashed the barbs to his arms and uses them to shield himself from the blow. Finally, Feyd manages to scratch him with the poison blade and revels at how everyone will see this (including his family) and know something about him—that they will never know which of his hands carries the poison blade. The Atreides man manages to impale himself on his own dagger before succumbing to the poison and Feyd finds himself impressed in spite of himself. The baron believes that the plan intended that the slave undrugged was an attempt to get to him and that Feyd uncovered the corruption of the slave master. To reward him, he tells the men that Feyd can have the gladiator’s head.

But Feyd does not want it. Instead, he places the man’s knife in his heads and asks that he be buried with it because he earned it. The baron thinks that he’s insulted the crowd, but Lady Fenring knows it’s the opposite—the crowd adores him for the gesture. The baron orders a fete in his name to reward him, knowing that the people are enamored of him tonight. The count and his lady speak in their code language (the humming they both do in the midst of their sentences is its own hidden language); now that they’ve seen what the boy is made of, Lady Fenring agrees that they must preserve this bloodline, and that she will seduce the boy and have his child. The count wonders how impressive Feyd might have been raised by the Atreides, and laments the death of Paul. But Lady Fenring tells him a Bene Gesserit saying: that you can never count a human dead without seeing their body, and even then you can make a mistake.

Commentary

Yeah, that quote at the start of this section. That’s messing me up this week.

Weird aside to begin this section: Herbert makes a point of noting that the hall that Count and Lady Fenring are standing in isn’t all that large, but that the pillars have been tapered and the ceiling arched to give the effect of a bigger space. Tricks like this are one of my favorite little tidbits about architecture and again harkens back to ancient Greece and Rome; the Greeks perfected that subtle curve to make a space or building look larger, and the Romans were all about their curved ceiling basilicas. But in the case of the Harkonnens, everything that they have is tainted with an underlayer of grime and mistreatment. They keep their subjects frightened, dirty, and overworked—even in a time of celebration it is clear that this is a carefully controlled state.

Yet again, we run into the baron’s fatal flaw in all of his scheming; he completely refuses to give any credence or thought to the Fremen, and is sure that Jessica and Paul are dead. The baron is an overall logical tactician, but he has his limits, places where he cannot conceive of being wrong. During his conversation with the count, he is far more concerned with whether or not the Emperor has plans to try and undermine him, which he believes would only strengthen his position. And to that account, he may have been right had Paul not survived. But it is also deeply intriguing to consider how the baron functions in regard to how the power comes to their house—because he’s not intent on gaining all that power and wealth for himself if it doesn’t happen to come their way for some time. He is doing this so that Feyd can eventually be the Harkonnen in charge of everything. And he tells Feyd that he shouldn’t be so quick to want power because he still has much to learn from his uncle (and he’s right), but the point is that the survival and rise of the Harkonnen line is what matters to him. He doesn’t care if he dies before he gets to see the fruit of all his plans.

Extending the Romanesque feel of Harkonnen rule, we get gladiator games, a favorite pastime of the Romans. And, of course, many Roman gladiators were slaves or criminals sent to die in the arena. (Although I’ve never come across an account of them being drugged, so that just makes Feyd-Rautha extra specially awful.) We learn that Hawat is helping Feyd independently of the baron, and that he is clearly hoping to get rid of the man by backing the nephew, sowing suspicion so that the baron doubts his own staff and raising his paranoia.

As Count Fenring notes that they are observing Feyd to learn about him on the Emperor’s behalf (and Lady Fenring is doing the same on behalf of the Bene Gesserit), we are also observing Feyd more closely than the narrative has ever allowed us. And he is pure ambition and cunning. Like, he’d be one of those kids who barely had the Sorting Hat touch his head before it shouted “Slytherin!” More importantly, he has no compassion for anyone and no inclination to anything but power. Still, he has enough intelligence to note when a “softer hand” will elevate him in the public eye. It’s an odd moment where the baron forgets what he has been training Feyd for; he presumes that the crowd will be angry with him for refusing the gladiator’s head, but Feyd knows exactly how to play the scene, insisting that the man be buried “respectfully.” (Still extra bemusing considering the conniving way he was murdered, but I’m sure that if you live around the Harkonnens, any gesture at all amounts to kindness.)

I have a weird liking for Count and Lady Fenring, I think maybe because of their secret language. The fact that they use the odd hums in their conversations to relay information back and forth is one of my favorite bits in the whole novel. While I wouldn’t trust the duo in a pinch, they are intriguing in their dual goals as a married Mentat and Bene Gesserit. They work together expertly, and it’s fun to observe how they manipulate others with so little effort. Which is really just an odd way of noticing that when so many characters in a book are so expertly manipulative, it’s easy to latch on to the characters who embody these traits, but are slightly less awful than, say, Baron Harkonnen.

The more you learn about the Bene Gesserit breeding program, on the other hand, the more disgusting it gets. Really just from the top down. So while the Fenring’s are fun from a certain standpoint, as soon as Lady Fenring brings up seducing Feyd, my brain just nopes right outta there. Ugh.

And then we end on an old Bene Gesserit saying, which also happens to be a saying for anyone who enjoys fiction: you can never count someone dead until you see the body, and even then, something can always come up. She knows it. We know it. We also know that Paul and Jessica are alive anyhow, but the irony is still funny.

*     *     *

And here is your weekly audiobook corner!

Emmet Asher-Perrin is interested in a tradition that allows your enemies to know where you are carrying poison, though. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.

About the Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin

Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin is the News & Entertainment Editor of Reactor. Their words can also be perused in tomes like Queers Dig Time Lords, Lost Transmissions: The Secret History of Science Fiction and Fantasy, and Uneven Futures: Strategies for Community Survival from Speculative Fiction. They cannot ride a bike or bend their wrists. You can find them on Bluesky and other social media platforms where they are mostly quiet because they'd rather talk to you face-to-face.
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8 years ago

The funeral scene is one of the more touching scenes, I think.  And it always makes me kind of sad when I read about these types of societies that have such an honor based/warrior type of feel.  It’s nice that they can have such a touching ceremony to honor their dead, but why do they have to die in the first place.

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Flypusher
8 years ago

I think your description of Paul’s visions as Schrödinger-esque is a good way to imagine them- he sees all the most likely possible outcomes until events happen that preclude all but one of them.

I also wonder whether Feyd was ever in a fair fight before he faces Paul in the last chapter.  Probably not.  I raised an eyebrow over his thoughts that treacheries practiced against drugged opponents were supposed to work to his advantage there.

Totally agree with your take on Lady Fenrig’s “assignment”.  Ugh.  The BG demand a lot of those they train.  But there was something touching about her conversation with her husband about that- there is respect and affection between the two of them.

 

 

 

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8 years ago

I’ve always felt that what Herbert describes as “prescience” in the Dune novels is really more of a way of visualizing all of the possibilities and probabilities as a kind of gestalt than it is a matter of having “visions” of the future; this is why Paul’s ability is related to the ability the Guild’s Navigators have to chart paths through folded space and to the computational abilities of Mentats.  His abilities aren’t psychic, they’re a kind of human supercomputing.

Which ties to what Flypusher just said @2.  Paul can see all (or really just most) of the possible outcomes from an action (we’ll later learn there are things Herbert’s prescients can’t see, because of psychological blind spots or matters in which they are so wholly ignorant of a necessary fact that their ability to see and choose paths fails).

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Aussiesmurf
8 years ago

My goodness, I love these chapters.

The burial of Jamis shows (1) anthropological details of the Fremen society. (2) Emotional growth for Paul, showing his remaining humanity, in regretting the necessity of death, and (3) The constant, constant planning and thought given to their infiltration of the Fremen tribe.

And The Giedi Prime chapter is right up there with my favourite section of the book.  The scheming and counter-scheming is masterful, with the Fenrings, the Baron, Feyd and Hawat all having their own plans and motivations, all of which can be followed and comprehended on an individual basis.

It is interesting to note that, if Feyd hadn’t (independently of Hawat) switched the poison for his blades, he seemingly would have died in the arena…I wonder if that was part of Hawat’s plan?

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8 years ago

@3, I’ve only read up through God Emperor, but in that book, Leto II has managed to breed a strain of Atreides who are invisible to prescience, including his own.  That doesn’t square with the idea that it’s just highly advanced, (Foundation-like) computation.

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8 years ago

@5 Good point, I’d forgotten about that….

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8 years ago

In my memory Feyd beats the Gladiator using the special word that renders him immobile. Not from the poison, but I need to get the book to be sure.

wiredog
8 years ago

“we pointedly do not see how it is done here”

We do!  It’s poured through a measuring device into the cistern.

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Mike E.
8 years ago

@8…I think she means we never learn how they reclaim the water content from a body.  Like how we never truly know what an axotl tank is throughout the main books until Brian Hebert reveals it in one of his spin-offs.

I think either the movie or the mini-series has them putting the body in a creche or device of some sort that performs the actual process of pulling the water from the corpse.

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8 years ago

@8 – “It’s poured through a measuring device into the cistern.”

 

The extraction, not the measuring.

Jason_UmmaMacabre
8 years ago

@9, if memory serves, Frank Herbert reveals what the axotl tanks are either at the end of Heretics of Dune or the beginning of Chapterhouse: Dune. I don’t have my books handy to verify.

wiredog
8 years ago

@9,10

“Then his water is specifically accounted for (though we pointedly do not see how it is done here), and Paul is given counters as a form of safeguard.”

But we do see the accounting as it’s poured through the measuring device.

 

IIRC, the axolotl tanks are revealed in either Chapterhouse or Heretics to be human uteruses, still in the humans.

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8 years ago

The line about Paul thinking his mother is his enemy is very odd to me.  His hot and cold view of her after their escape is odd too.  I hope it is merely in regards to Chani, but it didn’t seem that way to me.  Then in the rest of the book, all is well between them.  Odd.

Nice to see the foreshadowing of Count Fenring disobeying the Emperor at the end of the book, by wishing that Paul was not dead, since he admired the Atriedes so much.  

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8 years ago

@13. I always read Paul seeing Jessica as his enemy because her ambition would push him in the direction of the Jihad. Something which he tries to avoid at all cost.

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8 years ago

(can somebody in editorial please fix up the typos?  they are highly distracting)

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8 years ago

Really enjoying the reread.

“they are intriguing in their dual goals as a married Mentat and Bene Gesserit.”

who is the Mentat? Fencing is an almost KH, but I do not recall him being a Mentat

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Agent 99
8 years ago

The Cone of Silence.

What I would give to have had Don Adams play Count Fenring inviting the Baron into the Cone of Silence. Such a missed opportunity. 

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BookBarbarian
8 years ago

@14 I think you’re absolutely right.

@16 I wondered the same thing. I don’t think it says anywhere that Fenring was a mentat. 

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8 years ago

johnnywireless@14:

Was the breeding goal of the BG ever really revealed?  I can’t imagine that it was uncontrolled jihad, since they have been controlling breeding for eons.  I know they wanted the Man that could go where no Reverend Mother could go, but why?  Prescience?  

I thought maybe Paul’s antithesis towards his mother might be a combination of normal teenager separation/becoming his own man, and resentment for having been created as a Mentat/ BG tool.  Although, he does know she defied the BG Mothers and gave her Duke a boy, when ordered to produce a girl.  

I still find it rather at odds with their interactions though.  Jessica has always had his back, and supports him unequivocally as she realized who/what he has become.  And his feelings for her at the end of the book are very touching.  

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jgtheok
8 years ago

One thing I’ve been keenly aware of on this reread is just how gutsy the villains can be. It may not have been explicit in the early chapters, but the Baron certainly realized that the reward for acting as the Emperor’s hatchet man against Duke Leto (and burning through decades of House resources to do so) would be to become the next target for suppression. In his generation, the Harkonnen will either become unassailable – or be destroyed. His decision to go ahead despite the massive risk could be an episode worth of material for something like Game of Thrones; in Dune, it’s just part of the backstory.

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Ian
8 years ago

Perhaps some of Paul’s animosity towards Jessica stems in part, as Emily suggested, from his concerns regarding his unborn sister. He might see her as a major confounding factor, or as another innocent upon whom their mother has heaped problems as the result of her choices. Either aspect could make Paul justifiably irritated (and both end up to be partially true).

I don’t recall offhand whether the BG’s breeding gambit was ever fully explained, but it has long struck me as: (1) produce the Kwisatz Haderach, (2) ???, (3) profit!!

As I’m rereading this time, I’m noticing more clearly the contrast between this BG ‘plan’ and that of the Fremen, whose (more careful) plan to transform the climate of Arrakis isn’t meant to establish control but rather is a goal unto itself. Importantly, the Fremen (at least in this book) seemingly wish to remain part of the result rather than leverage the change for some other purpose. Herbert’s implications that the Fremen’s plan will likely work out a bit better seems to reinforce a theme of ecological stewardship as a Good Thing.

(And since the parallels between prescience and psychohistory have been mentioned…how about the parallels in goals and methods between the BG and the Second Foundationers? Asimov presented a fairly optimistic, better-living-through-science scenario, but Herbert was clearly more pessimistic that the feedback mechanisms of a complex system like a species or society would allow as a subset of it to be bent to a particular purpose without causing unexpected—even detrimental—side-effects. Ecological commentary through comparative literature!)

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Ellynne
8 years ago

My take on Paul’s reaction to Jessica is that she doesn’t realize that what she’s doing (establishing themselves among the Fremen, developing a power base for survival and possible reeastablishment of their house) leads to the jihad.

I like how Herbert sets up the contrast here between Feyd and Paul. As much of a monster as Feyd is, we’re not allowed to forget that he’s the other side side of the BG breeding program. He lacks the training but, like Paul, he’s only one generation away from what the BG thought would be the finished product.

Just before this chapter, we have Paul’s first killing in a dual. We see him almost desperate to avoid killing and how close he came to dying. While Paul knows plenty about manipulating people, it’s his honest reaction at this death and the “gift” he offers the dead that awes the Fremen and cements his position.

For Feyd, this is the latest in a long line of killings. But, it’s perhaps the first fight where he truly risked death. Like Paul, he offers the man he’s killed a rare gift of respect. Unlike Paul, his is deliberate manipulation, although it has the same end result. While Paul has literally been given Jamis’ water/blood (the Fremen often equate blood with water), the Baron says Feyd could walk safely in any corner of GP that night and, if necessary, the people would offer him their own blood to drink.

But, we also get the commentary from the Fenrings. Feyd is a monster–but, if he had been raised differently, he might have been like Paul. It makes me wish we could see what Feyd might have been with a less socio-pathic upbringing.

About the Fenrings: There are three BG relationships we’re shown in this book. Irulan’s parents seem almost like the Baron and Emperor, allies of circumstance who would kill each other in a heartbeat if politics or their different loyalties demanded it. 

Leto and Jessica were deeply in love, but Leto couldn’t marry her for political reasons. Jessica may have loved him and done things for him that were forbidden by the BG, but it’s just as clear there were things she always kept hidden from him.

The Fenrings are married and have no secrets. They work together like a well-oiled machine with the same goals and agenda. It’s wonderful how well they go together.

And Count Fenring is a eunuch. I’ve assumed “genetic-eunuch” means he’s a true eunuch and that it’s considered DNA based instead of being a physical flaw based on other factors, although it could mean that he is sexually functional but infertile. What we eventually learn is that he’s a failed KH. He may have survived the spice-agony, but his gifts took a different form than either the BGs or Paul’s.

But, this means the healthiest relationship we see a BG in is one that very likely has no sex and that certainly will have no children by her husband.

Ick factor aside, Fenring either understands his wife’s devotion to her sisterhood (which, in some ways, is like his loyalty to the emperor) or shares it. Whatever he feels about his wife (or any woman) being with Feyd, he accepts this as her choice and may accept her reasoning, that Feyd’s line needs to be preserved (while Feyd nearly got killed in this chapter, this also suggests Feyd is in more danger from the Emperor than the Baron would like to admit).

But, all that leaves not knowing how to feel about the Fenrings. In some ways, they’re a very admirable couple. In other ways, not so much. They’re even downright creepy on a few points.

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8 years ago

@19 I was more thinking along the lines of what is said in comment 22.

This is not so much with regards to any BG breeding program or that fact that Jessica gave birth to either Paul or his sister. It’s more that Jessica is trying her utmost to establish a place for her and Paul with the Freemen and wants to cement Paul’s status. She doesn’t know about the Jihad. Paul’s prescience apparently shows that the path that Jessica is intent on following for Paul (with the best intentions) leads directly to the Jihad.

As such, at that moment in time, Jessica is his greatest enemy, for her actions have the greatest chance of resulting in when Paul is trying to avoid at all cost.

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8 years ago

@23

I think you’re right, although i didn’t get it in the text, but yes, between the lines, it could be that Jessica’s vision for establishing a place with the Fremen is what Paul sees as leading to the Jihad.  But, I do think Paul also wanted a place with the Fremen, and that he saw the Jihad down many different futures.  So….?

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8 years ago

If Feyd was supposed to be the other parent of the KH, doesn’t that make him a Second Stage Lensman equivalent at least? Shouldn’t the Bene Gesserit have tried to see what happened if he was given a spice overdose? 

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8 years ago

@24

Yes I agree that their goals are the same. However, it is the way that Jessica only has eyes for Paul’s (and her) status with the Freemen. Whereas Paul is also balancing the oncoming Jihad. Jessica’s strong desire for Paul to “use these people as a fighting force” has no nuance in it whatsoever.

But in general I find this initial contact with the Freemen tribe so fascinating because every person has their own agenda, and the balance is extremely delicate.

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Ian
8 years ago

Drawing a straight line from future jihad through Jessica’s current actions to Paul’s (momentary) animosity might be giving him a bit too much credit here. Remember that at this point in the story he is still just 15, maybe 16, and has only had conscious access to his prescient abilities for a few days—during which time his entire life has been completely upended. A flash of anger and frustration was probably inevitable at some point. He’s got multiple past, present, and future sources for that feeling, and it just so happens that Jessica is tightly associated with many of them.

melendwyr
8 years ago

It’s worth noting that Mentats are valued but seen as less than fully human – they’re tools of the rulers, not the rulers themselves.  It was a remarkable humility that permitted Duke Leto train his son as one.

@3:  It’s noted (I believe in one of the chapter quotes) that prescients could gain knowledge for which there was no possible explanation within conventional spacetime.  Clearly Mentat hypercomputation is required for Paul to make best use of his facility of vision, but the vision itself goes beyond that.  He’s not merely a human supercomputer instead of a human computer.

Keep in mind that it’s established the Fremen have a little bit of Paul’s gift, but lacking his training, they are unable to make full use of it and ultimately repress the ability.  Paul – for a variety of reasons – is unable to repress it.

Now, that’s an interesting view of Paul – that his gift is a disability, an inability to leave prescience buried in the unconscious.

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LH
8 years ago

Why did I all of a sudden fall down the Harry Potter hole? I’m comparing Feyd to Draco. Although I think a better comparison is to Lucius, because I think at this point Feyd isn’t redeemable.

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8 years ago

For those who are wondering why Paul thinks his mother is his enemy it is stated pretty clearly in the text if not in the above summary.

Paul sat silently in the darkness, a single stark thought dominating his awareness: My mother is my enemy. She does not know it, but she is. She is bringing the jihad. She bore me; she trained me. She is my enemy.

Page 312 of the 40th anniversary edition of Dune

 

So basically what johnnywireless said @@@@@ 23.

Also, I do not believe that it is ever stated that Count Fenring is a Mentat.

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8 years ago

@25 — I assume the BG didn’t try to spice Feyd up either because there was still some final characteristic they were hoping to cement by wedding him back to Jessica’s daughter with her Atreides genes, or because he’s fundamentally kind of a monster.  Or some combination thereof.

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8 years ago

I’m enjoying this reread so much. I wait every week (not so patiently) for the next part. Thank you so much for this, Emily. :)

Also, I have to mention that I was pleasantly surprised to see Croatian/Serbian in Dune (the chant at the start of the first chapter, I think). :)

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Ellynne
8 years ago

A large dose of regular spice might waken prescience in Feyd, or he might keep it in his unconscious since he lacks Paul’s training. Either way, the BG want to use him, not recruit him. Prescience would just make him harder to manipulate.

Also, Feyd is already pretty monstrous. If this had been the first time he killed someone, I might have said there was still hope for him. He’d been taught all his life to see others as things to be used or destroyed for his own benefit. Killing in the arena was just supposed to be an extension of that. Instead, it all turned very real. If this was the first time, I could buy into the idea that, even if he told himself he was doing it to manipulate the crowd, that treating the dead man as a human being represented a real change in his perceptions, even if he couldn’t admit it yet. 

Instead, Feyd is a scary killer with a long history of dead bodies. He’s also got an uncle who’s working to make him the next emperor. Why give someone like that more power?

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BookBarbarian
8 years ago

@33 Exactly.

Feyd has genes that are desirable to keep, but his upbringing leaves a lot to be desired. It’s much better from a BG point of view to preserve those genes and try to cultivate them in an environment they have more control over. Like where the mother is a BG. 

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Nathan
8 years ago

Wait, #22, Count Fenring did the Spice Agony? I don’t remember that.

What about “They tried and died”? Of course, the Reverend Mother also lied to Paul about dying by the Gom Jabbar if he ever removed his hand from the box, but … I don’t think she was lying about the Spice Agony. 

Siona’s descendants were meant to be invisible to prescience in all circumstances, right? The Golden Path doesn’t neuter the prescient stagnation trap if everyone in the population has to get Spiced Up (thank you, #31, for that phrase!). That doesn’t prove Count Fenring was congenitally invisible, but it does mean congenital invisibility is possible.

#19, #21: I think the BG plan was to secure the Imperial throne. The Harkonnen here, and earlier the Atreides, are each said to have very real prospects of toppling the Emperor, thanks to their own military, wealth, and influence in the Landsraad. Join them together in the KH, and it’s a lock. And he owes the BG for arranging that marriage and keeping the Emperor from conceiving an heir of his own.

I presume additional situations are in the works that will deepen his attachment to the BG during his formative years — they were certainly very very good at getting the loyalty of all the women they trained, until Jessica. And/or they thought that only they knew how to use the Water of Life to unlock his powers. Anyway they were counting on his allegiance. Politics put him on the throne, and genetics keep him there: He needs neither Mentat by his side nor Guild at his helm to rule and roam as he pleases. (He won’t directly need a Truthsayer either, or any of the other roles in which Reverend Mothers are so useful, which is why his personal loyalty is essential.) And voila, the Bene Gesserit become de facto rulers of the Known Universe.

Whether they were seeking power for power’s sake, or had it in mind to rule for humanity’s benefit — making “we exist only to serve” a crude early intuition of the Golden Path — I am uncertain. But I’m pretty sure they were gunning for the Golden Lion Throne.

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Nathan
8 years ago

“The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.”

This works better as a conclusion to the Paul/Jessica section than an introduction to the gladiator fight. As they become closer and closer to the Fremen, Jessica is working within the concept of progress, and Paul is thrust into the terrors of the future. What it has to do with anyone in the Harkonnen bit, I’m not sure. It does put some ironic bite on the Baron’s confident plans for his House’s prosperity, I guess.

 

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Ellynne
8 years ago

#35, I could be wrong. Paul, when he meets Fenring, realizes he has never been able to see him because “Fenring was one of the might-have-beens, an almost Kwisatz Haderach, crippled by a flaw in the genetic pattern — a eunuch, his talent concentrated into furtiveness and inner seclusion.” I always took this to mean he’d gone through the spice agony, but the result was different than what a non-genetic eunuch’s would be. I suppose the BGs decided he belonged in his own category apart from female Reverend Mothers and male Kwisatz Haderachs.

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Ian
8 years ago

@35/Nathan: Your theory of the BG’s goal is plausible, as the Emperor was certainly the most efficient mechanism for leveraging the powers of the KH onto existing populations. While your theory doesn’t contradict the main text, however, I think it may be seriously at odds with Appendix III, in which the agents of Lady Jessica (who were in a position to know) called out the BG for its many blunders in their quest for the Kwisatz Haderach—hardly what one might expect from an organization that had a clear and distinct end goal in the works for millennia.

Personally, I’m more inclined to apply Liet-Kynes’s insight—“the most persistent principles of the universe [are] accident and error”—to the Bene Gesserit too, but YMMV. :-)

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Nathan
8 years ago

#38/Ian: I recall that Appendix III concludes that the BG’s many missteps, right at the culmination of their plan, was because higher-dimensional forces [1] were steering their outcomes, not because they were inherently bad at scheming. I think that leaves “take the throne” as a viable possibility for their endgame.

[1] Which I take to be humanity’s collective need for upheaval, as Paul senses early on. 

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Ian
8 years ago

@39/Nathan: My read of Appendix III was that Jessica and her agents concluded that the higher-dimensional forces steered things towards Paul’s nexus despite the BG’s missteps and failures to recognize what was happening. To-may-to, to-mah-to I suppose; Herbert may very well have intended that aspect of the text to be subject to interpretation.

I have no doubt the BG would have made the KH the Emperor had the opportunity presented itself (or had Paul not taken the choice away from them!). All I’m suggesting is that it would have been an opportunistic grab more than a long-planned choice. Besides, there are two more things pointing away from the possibility of KH-to-emperor being a significant part of their long-term plans:

1. The BG are well-established to prefer manipulating things from the background. Clearly making themselves kingmakers wouldn’t help in that regard at all. (Several of us argued about this very topic over in the comment thread for part four.)

2. The BG effectively already had possession of the Golden Lion throne: Shaddam IV’s late wife was BG and Irulan (along with her sisters, presumably) was BG-trained! I suspect that he was not the first emperor to have a BG consort. Arguably, the type of influence the BG wielded at the Imperial court and in the various Houses Major through wives and concubines was probably more helpful in helping manipulate the bloodlines towards producing the KH than anything they could have achieved by scheming to make the KH emperor.

Jason_UmmaMacabre
8 years ago

@40, they had a hold on the throne, but Shaddam was still the emperor. I think the BG assumed that the KH would be one of them, only he would be a dude and able to take the throne. The KH program probably started as a goal to perfect the genetic lines and devolved into a power grab due to BG politics. 

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Ian
8 years ago

@41: Backing into a goal to control the throne less as theresult of direct planning and more as one emerging from a combination of scope creep and bureaucratic imperatives? Yep, I can totally get behind that theory!

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7 years ago

The subtext of Count and Lady Fenring’s conversation about seducing Feyd is clear. Each is telling the other how much they hate this but agreeing that they must do it for reasons higher than their own wishes. They are mutually reinforcing their commitment to the breeding program but at the same time revealing to the reader that they have doubts they don’t want to face.

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