Welcome back to the Warbreaker reread! Last week, Vasher and Lightsong each suffered their own form of torture. This week Vivenna and Nightblood seek Vasher, Lightsong learns more of his history, while Siri and Susebron are the rope in a tug-of-war between the real priests and the fake ones.
This reread will contain spoilers for all of Warbreaker and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. This is particularly likely to include Words of Radiance, due to certain crossover characters. The index for this reread can be found here. Click on through to join the discussion!
Chapter 54
Point of View: Vivenna, Vasher, Siri, Vivenna, Lightsong
Setting: T’Telir slums, the God King’s Palace
Timing: The following morning
Take a Deep Breath
Vivenna approaches a beggar, seeking information about disturbances in the city. For the price of a colorful handkerchief, he suggests that she look near the wharf of the Third Dock slums.
Vasher realizes it’s morning, after a night’s torture. Although experienced at it, he knows he can’t last forever. Believing that there’s still good in Denth somewhere, Vasher suggests that torturing him isn’t all that fun, and won’t bring Shashara back. Denth agrees, and picks up a knife.
Siri is rushed through hallways by the priests as she tries to figure out who is attacking the palace—not Idris, anyway. Suddenly the white in her dress begins to refract, and they enter a room where Susebron is surrounded by priests and soldiers—who no longer seem concerned about touching their God King. She demands that Treledees tell her what’s going on; to her surprise, he finally answers her. The truth is that a group of Lifeless has attacked the palace, but the he doesn’t know who is behind it.
As the priests and soldiers consult on the best way to get out of the palace to avoid being surrounded, Bluefingers enters to say that the reinforcements Treledees had ordered aren’t coming. After a moment’s thought, Treledees picks up the sword of a wounded soldier, sends half of the soldiers to accompany Bluefingers, Susebron, and Siri, and prepares to distract their pursuers with the remaining soldiers and priests. This seems according to her plan with Bluefingers, but something feels wrong to Siri. She remembers Lightsong’s advice, and tries to think who else in Hallandren might seem ordinary and might benefit if Hallandren and Idris got involved in a conflict. She finally registers that if the priests were willing to sacrifice themselves to protect Susebron, they couldn’t have been planning to kill him, and suddenly it falls into place. Bluefingers, realizing that she’s figured it out, takes off at a run, leaving Siri, Susebron, and Treledees to try to find a way out that doesn’t involve a trap.
Vivenna easily identifies the location she’s seeking—the building is surrounded by a whispering crowd. It doesn’t take long to decide that Vasher isn’t here, but as she turns away, she hears Nightblood’s voice in her head, calling her to come get it. She dashes into the building and enters the room that has black smoke coming from under the door, to find four dead bodies and a cheerful Nightblood. Sickened by it all, she barely listens to Nightblood’s chatter until it mentions that Vasher is hurt. Now holding her full attention, the sword says that Vasher went to the God King’s palace to get Vivenna’s sister, but was stopped by VaraTreledees, a.k.a. Denth, Shashara’s brother. It can’t understand why Denth threw him in the water, but Vivenna doesn’t care. Wrapping Nightblood in a dirty blanket from the room, she and the sword head for the Court of Gods.
Lightsong sits staring, not responding to Llarimar. Blushweaver’s death has confirmed everything he ever thought about “godhood”—that they have no actual power to do anything about anything—and he is furious with everyone who insisted that they were gods. Mostly he’s furious with himself for being unable to save Blushweaver. Llarimar finally breaks an awkward silence by telling Lightsong the truth of their past. Lightsong was a scribe, and Llarimar was a priest disillusioned by the pettiness and politics of the Court. Then Lightsong died rescuing Llarimar’s daughter—the girl he sees in his dreams, his favorite niece. Llarimar lost all hope and faith … and then Lightsong Returned.
Breathtaking
“You were a scribe,” Llarimar said quietly to the damp air. “And you were one of the best men I’d ever known. You were my brother.”
…
“And then you died. Died rescuing my daughter. That’s the girl you see in your visions, Lightsong. The description is perfect. She was your favorite niece. Still would be, I assume. If you hadn’t…” He shook his head. “When we found you dead, I lost hope. I was going to resign my position. I knelt above your body, weeping. And then, the Colors started to glow. You lifted your head, body changing, getting larger, muscles growing stronger.
“I knew it at that moment. I knew that if a man like you were chosen to Return—a man who had died to save another—then the Iridescent Tones were real. The visions were real. And the gods were real. You gave me back my faith, Stennimar.”
He met Lightsong’s eyes. “You are a god. To me, at least. It doesn’t matter how easily you can be killed, how much Breath you have, or how you look. It has to do with who you are and what you mean.”
This was so good. While I still can’t think of them as actual deities, I can certainly understand Llarimar’s (and hence others’) renewed belief in the Iridescent Tones. Like the Shards on other worlds, Endowment holds part of the deific powers. Those she touches, and so obviously, would definitely be given a higher place in society, whether they all deserve it or not.
Local Color
The first part of the annotations cover a handful of minor notes about Vivenna and Old Chapps, plus a little clarification on how Nightblood’s mind works. This is followed with a short piece on the fact that Vasher is saving his strength, and that Denth is frustrated with the torture almost as much as he’s frustrated with his life. The bulk of the notes are dedicated to the process of creating just enough—and the right kind of—confusion regarding who is behind the war movement; Siri’s growth in both perceptiveness and self-control; and finally, Lightsong finally acting like what he’s been claiming all along—that he’s useless.
***
Chapter 55
Point of View: Siri, Vivenna, Lightsong, Siri
Setting: The God King’s Palace
Timing: The following morning
Take a Deep Breath
Huddling near the front entrance, the priests and soldiers decide they might be able to get out. If they can reach the city, Treledees is sure that the people will rally around Susebron. In the interests of coming clean before he dies, apparently, Treledees tells Siri a bunch of stuff she’s already figured out—that they don’t believe she can get pregnant, that they already have a child, that they’re planning to make him the new God King. He’s completely stunned by her accusation that they’re going to rob Susebron of his Breath and kill him, though: he only needs to pass on Peacegiver’s Treasure, and then he can retire and live as long as he wants in peace. Any time an infant Returns, the priests take it as a sign that the God King has done his duty and should be allowed to be finished with the burden.
Inadvertently or not, Treledees also reveals that any of the gods—and especially Susebron—would be able to use extra Breaths to Awaken, if they chose to stockpile them. Siri accuses Treledees of keeping the gods from realizing what they could do—keeping them ignorant of their potential; he says they only do what they must to protect the Treasure.
A noise from the next room reminds them that they don’t have time to chat, and Siri realizes that she didn’t ask the critical question soon enough—Treledees doesn’t have time to tell her how Susebron can pass on his Breath without speaking. Lifeless soldiers burst through two doors, and when they throw open the third, Bluefingers is waiting with more Lifeless. Siri and Susebron can only watch helplessly as the soldiers and the priests are slaughtered to the last man; Susebron puts Siri behind him, back to a wall, when Bluefingers steps around the Lifeless and summons her.
Vivenna finds that the Court of Gods is closed to all comers, no matter how much Breath they hold, and wonders what Vasher did the night before to create such a stir. As she turns away, Nightblood advises her to just go around the side like Vasher—he never asks to enter. She follows the sword’s directions, waiting until a patrol passes, then Awakening a tapestry to lift her to the top of the wall—where, of course, she’s instantly spotted. She has the tapestry deposit her inside the wall, and runs for the palace. Nightblood can feel Vasher’s presence, and gives Vivenna an image and location. The entrance is well guarded, and as she considers possibilities, more soldiers approach from behind. She flings the blanketed sword at the group in front of the building, and as they focus on it, she dashes past them and to the side. Using her Awakened clothing, she climbs the side of the palace, glancing down to see the soldiers, still fighting over Nightblood, moving into the palace. Nightblood continues to send her directions on which room Vasher is in, but as Vivenna climbs, arrows start to hit the wall near her. Protected by her Awakened cloak and strengthened by her Awakened sleeves and leggings, she keeps climbing.
Lightsong sits in his cage, overwhelmed by the events of the last hours. As the group of priests confer on the other side of the room, he finally realizes what had been bothering him: to his fifth-Heightened senses, the color of their skin is, consistently, slightly off from the normal Hallandren skin tone. Abruptly it all comes together: though they wear the right robes, they are not priests at all. They’re Pahn Kahl, and they’ve played the entire Court for fools.
Siri tries to get Bluefingers to explain what’s going on, but he ignores her. Eventually, her badgering wins the response that he’s sorry for her pain, but the Idrians and the Hallandren both treated his people badly in the Manywar. Suddenly Susebron punches a Lifeless, motioning Siri to run. She instead tries to grab Bluefingers, but in moments the Lifeless have both of them under control. A Pahn Kahl man in priests robes informs Bluefingers that they have tested Lightsong’s Command phrases, and have changed it. Bluefingers acknowledges this, and tells them to order the Lifeless to march on Idris.
He looks morose, and when Siri challenges him, he explains that his friends who now hold the Command phrases will send the Lifeless to Idris, with orders to destroy everything there, and then will kill themselves so that no one can stop the assault. His men then haul Susebron away to the dungeon; eventually, they will stage a scene in the Lifeless barracks so it looks like Susebron was murdered by Idrians, that Lightsong and Blushweaver sent the Lifeless in retribution, and were then killed by Idrian rebels. Any Pahn Kahl scribes who survive will confirm the story, and no one will try to hold back from the war. Bluefingers believes that the Idrians will do better than most people think, but they have to want to fight—and Siri realizes with horror that plans to use her death and that of her supposed baby to draw the Idrians into an all-out war of hatred. All of it will be based on lies, and no one will suspect that it was designed by that quiet province to the south.
Breathtaking
An arrow snapped against the stone beside her, making her jump. Several guards below had bows.
Colors! she thought, pulling herself up to the next block. She heard a whoosh behind her, and cringed, feeling as if she should have been struck, but nothing happened. She pulled herself up onto the block, then twisted around.
She could just barely see a corner of her cloak holding an arrow. She started, grateful that she had Awakened it. It dropped the arrow, then returned to normal.
Handy, that, she thought, climbing up the last block.
Hah. I’d almost forgotten about the cloak. Handy, indeed!
Local Color
Siri is in command of herself and others, Treledees is lying again—he knows how Susebron could have a child—but he does intend to tell her how to pass on Breath without speaking; Sanderson apologizes for leaving the methods for a sequel; Treledees was not lying about letting Susebron live in peace as long as he want. The priests show themselves to be dedicated to Susebron. Vivenna is bad at sneaking; Yesteel is finally mentioned in the text; Nightblood has a Connection to Vasher from having fed off his Breath in the past. The men distracted by Nightblood are Denth’s mercenaries; the rest of the Court is a chaos of priests trying to protect their various gods; Bluefingers is frustrated because they’re all in his way. Lightsong’s recognition of the fake priests is valid, and this is the only place they’re seen. Bluefingers is right that Idris would do well, mostly because the Lifeless were sent with no support or planning, but also because they would have support from other nations and Yesteel would make more Awakened swords and it would all be very, very bad.
***
Snow White and Rose Red
Siri and Vivenna have finally both grown out of their youthful weaknesses and have developed into strong women with genuine power. They still have their moments, of course—they aren’t perfect—but they’ve grown up. A lot.
Siri has learned to control herself—as evidenced by her hair—and can convey anger, authority, and command when she needs to. There are a couple of places where she lapses into fear and helplessness, but they’re short-lived and she refuses to be that person. (Given the situation, a little fear and helplessness is pretty understandable….) She can’t command the Lifeless, unfortunately, but at least she manages to get some answers out of Treledees and Bluefingers.
Vivenna, on the other hand, is no longer interested in authority and command; she’s more concerned with competence and autonomy. (It was pretty funny, though, when she was telling the beggar that she’d lived among them because she thought it was important to know what it was like. Sure, Vivenna. Your choice all along.) In any case, her Awakening of the clothing she borrowed from Vasher is super effective, whether it’s due to her skillz or to the clothing retaining an imprint. She manages to not only get into the Court over the wall, she climbs up the side of Susebron’s palace using her enhanced “fingers” and “legs,” all the while protected by her cloak.
And she hears Nightblood in her head, even from a distance. That’d be frightening.
As I Live and Breathe
Vivenna is the only person who actively uses Awakening in these chapters, but we do get a bit of solid clarification from Treledees regarding the enormous amount of Breath Susebron holds. Most of it is already understood by the reader—or at least the rereader—but that’s mostly because we’ve had more chances to learn than either Siri or Vivenna alone. To spell it out, then, there are differences in the kinds of Breath Susebron has (which we’ve only seen elsewhere in Denth and Vasher, and we didn’t know it at the time with them). He’s got his own Divine Breath, just like all Returned, which grants him the fifth Heightening. He’s also got Peacegiver’s Treasure—the mass of 50,000 Breaths which Peacegiver gave to the first God King and which has been handed down the line intact. On top of those, he’s got the extras of the two or three Breaths per week which are given him, after using the one-per-week necessary to stay alive. Presumably he’s only required to pass on the 50,000 to the infant, leaving him with his single Divine Breath and somewhere around 3000 extras. He could live a good while on those…
Clashing Colors
Well, we finally learn a little more about these Pahn Kahl characters, and the distinctives they possess. First of all, their skin coloring is slightly different than the Hallandren, We can infer from this that they haven’t intermarried much, or the slight difference would be gone, right? Second, we learn that they are associated with a peaceful, quiet province to the south of Hallandren. Third, we can infer from what Bluefingers says, along with what we learned from Hoid, that the problem probably goes back a long way before the Manywar. To some degree, it goes back about six hundred years, to the time when the rest of the world “discovered” this area. That’s a long time to hold a grudge.
Does it stand up to the believability test? I suspect different readers have different answers to this question, but overall, I’d say it does—with the caveat that people do some very stupid things for reasons that don’t seem justifiable to anyone but themselves. While I don’t think the Pahn Kahl have a grievance valid enough to set the world at war, I can believe that they think they do. I can also readily believe that they could be short-sighted enough not to realize just how bad it would be, and that they themselves would be damaged or destroyed by the resulting carnage.
In Living Color
Let’s see… we have Vasher and Denth, busy being enemies but not much else this time. We have Lightsong, angry at the world for calling him a god and angry at himself for being exactly what he always claimed to be. And we have Susebron, watching and thinking, and only once lashing out in the hope that his beloved can escape—which she doesn’t, of course.
More interestingly, we have Lightsong’s history. Not quite all of it (that will come next week), but enough to know that he had died to save someone else, and Llarimar perceives his Return as a reward for such courage.
Then there’s the snippet of background for the God Kings buried in what Treledees tells Siri. From the wording, I now wonder whether the Returned infant had to be stillborn or not. I get the impression that he doesn’t—just that he has to be an infant. And to answer a question someone asked many weeks ago, it would appear that there have only been four infant Returns in Hallandren in the last three hundred years. Or at least only four that the priests found out about. There’s a critical part of my brain that wonders where they came up with the notion that the Return of an infant is the sign to change God Kings; it’s not like there have been that many! So I’ll suggest an in-world answer: perhaps the first God King dreamed it, explained it to the priests, and established it as orthodoxy.
Don’t Hold Your Breath (Give it to me!)
Most of the interesting things to say about Nightblood have been said already, so I’ll just point out the strength of its ability to reach Vivenna’s mind. It can even, apparently, see through her eyes, since it can tell her which window leads to Vasher based on her position, though it is busy in the lower level of the palace, well out of reach and view. That’s a little… creepy… How does it get this access to her mind? Is it because of her Returned ancestry, or does it just get to decide who it can touch? I suppose we’ll have to wait for the sequel to learn any more about this.
Exhale
Well. That was… extensive. And exhausting! So we’ll put the avalanche on freeze-frame until next week, when we’ll tackle chapters 56 and 57, not quite finishing the book. Ooof.
See you in the comments!
Alice Arneson is a SAHM, blogger, beta reader, and literature fan. In Oathbringer news, the gamma read is complete and the copy-edited manuscript sent in. Closer it comes, and closer; the tour stops have been announced, and the review articles will be coming shortly.
One of the dangers of narratives comes from the limited viewpoint of the protagonists. We never get a look inside Bluefingers’s mind, so we’re limited to what Siri, Vivenna, and Lightsong think. None of them know anything about the Pahn Kahl, and their knowledge of how Hallendren actually works is practically nonexistent.
Before we say that the Pahn Kahl are wrong, we should stop to ask ourselves whether we’d be happy living under the theocratic rule of a religion we didn’t believe in. Six hundred years of having no say in their own government, trapped in an Empire that treats them as if they’re invisible, provides plenty of justification for rebellion in my eyes. This isn’t about holding a grudge over something that happened six centuries ago; it’s about the ongoing subjugation of the Pahn Kahl to an Empire that has no actual right to rule them.
Bluefingers’s plan is going to kill a lot of people, but there’s no reason it can’t work. If Hallendren loses their army, they won’t have anything to stop the Pahn Kahl from seceding. There’s plenty of historical precedent for small nations securing their independence out of a massive war and the collapse of old empires; look at the number of independent countries before and after the First World War for an example.
The Pahn Kahl may have a real grievance but one that justifies starting a major war? Not IMO. And as I pointed out before the PK are fooling themselves if they think they can just sit out Manywar II. They are going to suffer and die with everybody else.
The Hallandren government isn’t my idea of ideal but on the other hand the PK aren’t being forced to worship the Returned. They are not visibly discriminated against except that they can’t be priests (obviously) but positions of great power are certainly open to them. Unfortunately from the Hallandren POV. And the Idrians haven’t done a damn thing to them but they’re being thrown under the bus in the name of FREEDOM. Freedom or just a chance to be on top I wonder?
I feel like it’s come up here before, but the similarity in names between Treledees and VaraTreledees was initially pretty confusing for me.
@3: You are not the only one. Your question made me think there was a WoB about the use of the two names. But I can’t find it. I’m asking friends that are better are remembering / finding WoB. I want to say Treladees is a last name, and the priest is a descendant of Denth – but I could be totally wrong and just confusing things.
This whole scene. Oh the feels. It also highlights in retrospect the real lack of adult siblings I see in books. This whole book is a contrast between two sisters – but how often are they talking together?
Besides Keliser and Marsh, the other two bother sets I can think of quickly are Raistlin and Caramon Majere , and Mark and Miles Vorkosigan. None of which have very loving family dynamics.
Well now we can see why Llarimar has always been so patient with Lightsong and hasn’t resented his nickname or other leg pulling. He’s had decades of experience dealing with this stuff from his younger brother. I get a strong impression that personality isn’t changed much by Return. Lightsong was as impulsive and smart mouthed as Stennimar.
Rather than gods I’d see the Returned as something between angels and saints, messengers and channels of the divine rather than divine themselves. I assume Endowment doesn’t let just anybody come back and that people have a powerful reason to choose to come back.
Calmseer saw her daughter dying of the same disease that killed her and came back to save her. Lightsong and Blushweaver had a larger and less immediately personal reason to come back; to prevent a war, though I don’t doubt that concern for those they’d left behind was also a powerful motive. My guess would be that most of the present pantheon also came back because of the war, or possibly to take a hand in the reconstruction the Hallandren government and society that will follow.
Speaking of limited view… the Pahn Kahl may not exactly understand what kind of wasp’s nest they’re stirring up either. I’d hope not, anyway. According to the annotations,
Of course they have no way of knowing this. At the same time, Bluefingers’s own justification for the havoc he expects the Lifeless to wreak on Idris is that “three hundred years ago, your people treated my people like a lower class.” That’s a pretty lame excuse, in my book.
There are further questions to be asked, which I don’t recall seeing answered: How many of the Pahn Kahl people actually care about rebelling against Hallandren? Clearly there’s an ongoing element that does care, but what percentage of the people really want their lives to be different than they are now? Sure, in the Court of Gods the career paths are limited to servants and scribes, but how much are they limited outside the court? I’d like to know the answer to this – are they actually limited in everyday life, compared to other ethnic groups, or do they only perceive themselves as being limited? Without knowing that, it’s hard to say whether they have an ethical basis for rebellion at all. And personally, I’d have to see severe and/or violent oppression before I’d believe that putting two (and more) nations into a war they didn’t even want was remotely justified.
@2 princessroxana, @6 Wetlandernw
Yeah, “your ancestors were bad three hundred years ago” is a pretty weak justification for anything. Bluefingers has decided to sacrifice the Idrians because they’re less important to him than his own people, and he’s grasping for justifications to make himself feel better.
The most unethical part of the Pahn Kahl plan isn’t the assassination of the God King or his priests, who are part of an imperial government ruling them without their consent. It’s the way they view Idria as a convenient sacrifice to bring down the Halledrens.
We know that there was an earlier Pahn Kahl rebellion led by the man who gives Vasher his Breaths at the start of the book. Clearly, there are a decent number of Pahn Kahl who don’t want to be ruled by Hallendren; just as clearly, the Hallendren are willing to use violence to keep the Pahn Kahl under the rule of a foreign theocracy. If you invade another people, rule them without their consent, and kill anyone who tries to leave, then you really don’t get to complain when they plot against you.
Note that Bluefingers helped bring down Vahr because he didn’t like the competition with HIS little revolution.
@@.-@ I feel like I did read something about it, maybe in the annotations of an earlier chapter. It didn’t help until I was in “reading for a second time” territory obviously. Google isn’t helping me much from mobile. I may try to find it from my computer when I have access.
Re: the Treledees/VaraTreledees question, I haven’t found any solid answers yet. The best I’ve found is a fan speculation that, as VaraTreledees was one of the Five Scholars, it’s a name of historical significance (in a positive way). A bit like naming your son Patrick as a hat-tip to Patrick Henry or something.
The Pahn Kahl people were conquered against their will. Justice doesn’t have an expiration date…
Nah, I’m kidding. That sounded pretty cool, right? That should be a movie tag line or something.
@11: Thanks you inspired me to go look up a quote.
If you don’t read the Vorkosigan books, I highly recommend them.
@12 mmmmmm Profesora Vorthys is one of my FAVORITES, and that whole scene just gives me chills. She’s so good.
@8 princessroxana
Bluefingers knew that Vahr couldn’t defeat the Lifeless, and he had no intention of letting a failed rebellion interfere with a plan that had an excellent chance of seizing control of Hallendren’s army and bringing the Empire down. If I was a deep-cover mole who’d finally worked my way into a position to achieve my plans without anyone suspecting, I’d be pretty annoyed when someone started an uprising that drew attention to the otherwise invisible Pahn Kahl in the palace. Ruthless though it was, sabotaging Vahr made sense.
@11 Austin, @12 Braid_Tug, @13 SunDriedRainbow
Imperialists tend to assume that, once the conquest is over, time will magically heal all wounds. This is like a burglar breaking into a man’s house, eating his food and sleeping in his bed, and assuming that the man will be all right with it in a couple of weeks. Professora Vorthys, like the Hallendrens, sees the world from the burglar’s perspective; what they’ve taken is somehow theirs by right, rather than simple theft on a grand scale. Komarrans and Pahn Kahl tend to see the world differently.
The question of what is justified for an oppressed/subjugated/assimilated population is definitely one that we’ve been trying to answer in our own world, I think. On one hand, I really hate the idea of violence, and just continuing the cycle of pain, etc. On the other hand, simply appealing to the better natures of those in power rarely gets real results so…what to do? As a fairly privileged person more or less free to be who I am in terms of culture and religion it’s not something I’ve had to really think about.
@15 Lisamarie
The ideal is negotiation. But as you point out, people in power rarely want to negotiate from a position of strength, and once the formerly oppressed group has power, they’re usually more interested in imposing their own rule than in creating a better solution. The actors may change parts, but the story remains the same.
Hallendren had plenty of opportunities to talk with the Pahn Kahl about a solution that would be more acceptable to both parties. They just didn’t want to. Bluefingers is wrong to sacrifice the Idrians, and his plan to kick off another Manywar is going to kill huge numbers of innocent people, but he’s not wrong to say that Hallendren wasn’t going to listen. They have a nice empire, and the Pahn Kahl make good taxpayers, servants, and scribes. Why would the Hallendren give up their wealth and power just because someone asked them nicely?
I wouldn’t adopt Bluefingers’s approach because it kills too many people. But I don’t really have a solution, either; are the Pahn Kahl just supposed to give up? Pretend to convert to a religion they don’t believe in so that they can gain some measure of representation in a theocracy? When peaceful paths to change are closed, it invites change through violent means.
@14 At least Barrayar recognizes it’s oppressing Komarr (even if some characters minimize it). Hallandren doesn’t even notice it’s got occupied territory.
@15 One thing the Pahn Kahl and Komarrans have in common is choosing methods of resistance that don’t work. Whatever extremes are justified by oppression, certainly extreme action without results is unjustifiable.
And that is the real problem with Bluefinger’s plot, it’s going to bring down destruction on the Pahn Kahl themselves and Bluefinger should realize it. Remember his key complaint is everybody thinks Pahn Kahl’s are just more Hallandren. So WHY does he assume their lands will be ignored by the vengeful Idrians and their allies? I mean seriously dude, you’re going to kill their princess to enrage Idris into destroying bad, bad, Hallandren and you expect them to make a fine distinction most Halllendren don’t? That Siri has informed you Idrians don’t know exists??
@17 noblehunter
The Hallendren Empire isn’t that high on the “Evil” scale, as empires go. In terms of arrogance, they may be the worst I’ve ever heard of.. Anyone can dismiss or sneer at a rebellion, but the Hallendren priests don’t even seem to have noticed the Pahn Kahl uprising; they don’t investigate any of the scribes and servants in their God-King’s palace, even though Vahr shows them that at least some of their Pahn Kahl subjects are less than happy with the current state of affairs. There’s something particularly annoying about a ruling class so arrogant that even open rebellion can’t make them notice your existence.
If every revolutionary waited until they had a plan that was guaranteed to work, there would never be any revolutions. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you have. Ireland had plenty of failed uprisings before they had a successful one, but the failures laid the groundwork for the success. The rebels in Eastern Europe couldn’t be certain that 1989 would be different from 1956 or 1968; they had to rise before they could learn whether they would win.
@18 princessroxana
Very few wars end in the total destruction of one nation’s civilian population. And though I haven’t looked at a Warbreaker map lately, I believe that the Pahn Kahl are on the end of the Empire opposite from Idria. It’s not unreasonable to believe that Idria will focus on the capital and the ruling class and ignore the sleepy southern province that doesn’t have anything important they need.
Just as importantly, nationalists are willing to make sacrifices for their nation’s existence. We see Bluefingers’s associates kill themselves so that they can’t be forced to give up the codeword that controls the Lifeless. They’re willing to die themselves, and they’re probably willing to accept the deaths of innocent Pahn Kahl civilians if it leads to a free Pahn Kahl nation after the war. If violent rebels weren’t willing to accept the risk or even certainty of civilian deaths, then the state could prevent any uprisings by simply threatening to kill civilians.
thank you
One of the weaknesses in the book is that we don’t have a strong sense of what the Pahn Kahl are rebelling against. We don’t know how bad their situation is or what their grievances are. For all I know, maybe their a bunch of pseudo-Nazis who would be outraged at anyone who isn’t Pahn Kahl claiming a right to exist. On the other hand, maybe most of them make Mother Teresa look cruel by comparison (I’d be a little hard-pressed to say that about the ones killing people in the book, but is could be the majority’s norm [not that I’d argue for it, but you never know. . . .]).
However, I can’t feel good about the rebel Pahn Kahl’s willingness to slaughter huge numbers of Idrians, who aren’t their enemies. The orders given are going to get children and noncombatants massacred. They’re knowingly committing war crimes. They’re also willing to create what looks like it could turn into a world war–dragging in other countries who will feel threatened by Hallandren’s apparent aggression and slaughtering of civilians.
They’re also likely betting that they’ll be left alone, that Pahn Kahl won’t be drafted into fighting or that Hallandren may not decide to ruthlessly crush an uprising when they’re already facing enemies on the other side. That’s assuming no one figures out they were the ones who started it. If that leaks out, the anger they’re hoping will be aimed at their enemies will come down on them.
@10 I was sure there was WOB that Treledees was definitely the descendant of VaraTreledees, but if you can’t find it I wonder where I would have read that, hmmm?
It’s possible that there is a religious component in the Pahn Kahl’s rebellion. They are not forced to worship the God King or the Returned but according to their own religion, as I recall, Returned have been rejected by the real gods so basically the PK are being ruled by the Damned.
princessroxana @23 – Not quite that bad, actually.
But we also know that they aren’t forced or even expected to worship the Returned, and Bluefingers was quite clear that they accept Susebron as their king – just not as a god. Which isn’t to say that there is no religious component; it’s always frustrating to be subject to people who follow a different religion.
Rereading the prologue it seems Vahr’s rebellion was less a Pahn Kahl revolution than a united front of the poor and exploited including Dye field workers and other immigrant labor regardless of place of origin.
This annotation is more about Hallandrean and Idris then about Hallandrean and Phan Khal bt in some ways can PROBABLY go towards explain them both.
Like I said the annotation is about Hallandren and Irdis but I can’t help but wonder if it explains the feelings about Hallendren and and the Phan Khal as well. I seem to remember at some point that Brandon Sanderson said that the Phan Khal’s main problem is that they are obsessed with what they have lost. Maybe I am reading to must into it, but it seems to me like that means they still have a lot they could make things of if they focused on their future instead of the past. That being said the axiom of writing is show don’t tell and I feel like Brandon Sanderson did too much tell not enough showing in this case.