As we continue our groundwork for Oathbringer, the next doorstopper entry in The Stormlight Archive, we now present to you another entry in our refresher series. This time, we’re going to review what we know of the Knights Radiant—a brief synopsis of the history, the orders, and the individual members.
WARNING: Spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and Edgedancer.
Note: there are no spoilers for Oathbringer in this article, and we’d appreciate it if y’all would avoid them in the comments as well – or at least white out the spoilers. Not everyone here will be following the early-release chapters.
First, some history.
Warning: this part may will read like a history book. Primarily sourced in the text of the previous two books, it is pulled together from so many small references that, in the interest of readability, I won’t cite them all. A few details come from external sources such as signings, Q&A sessions, or the notes in Arcanum Unbounded.
Millennia ago, a conflict arose between the Shards Honor and Cultivation, who had come to Roshar together, and the Shard Odium, who came later. In the hostilities that followed, Honor created ten Honorblades, which granted their holders the ability to manipulate natural forces, locally known as Surges—ten Surges, two bound to each Blade in an overlapped rotation. These Honorblades he gifted to the Heralds: five men and five women who took on the task of leading the fight against Odium’s Voidbringers in a series of conflicts known as Desolations. Between Desolations, the Heralds went to a place they called Damnation, where they suffered torture until the next Desolation began. At that point, all ten would return to Roshar, help the people prepare for the conflict, and fight alongside them until it was over (or they died) and the cycle began again.
In time, spren on Roshar observed what Honor had done, and imitated the effects of the Honorblades by bonding themselves to humans. Ishar was the first of the Heralds to see the potential of this connection—benefits and risks—and imposed a set of rules to organize and guide the spren and the humans with whom they chose to bond. As Honor had given each Herald the ability to manipulate two Surges by way of their Honorblades, the spren bonds mimicked that effect and gave the bonded humans the use of the same pairs of Surges. Thus were formed the ten orders of the Knights Radiant, who each claimed as patron the Herald whose powers they copied. As part of Ishar’s organization, the Knights committed themselves to follow certain Ideals, according to the priorities of their Orders.
During the intervals between Desolations, these Knights Radiant remained on Roshar, trying to maintain some semblance of preparedness and training. They were centered in a place called Urithiru, but mostly lived throughout the kingdom of Alethela—what later became known as Alethkar. Cycle after cycle went by, Desolation after Desolation. Finally, most of the Heralds couldn’t face the torture any longer. At the end of what was called Aharietiam, or the Last Desolation, nine of the Heralds survived. They told the people that they had won, abandoned their Honorblades, and dispersed over Roshar to blend with the population. Only Talenel returned to Damnation to hold Honor’s Oathpact in place.
For the next 2500-3000 years, the Knights Radiant remained active, though we don’t really know who or what they fought against. However, for reasons unknown, they suddenly abandoned their oaths and their spren, leaving behind their Shardblades and Shardplate. This event, later styled the Recreance, resulted in both humans and spren believing they had been betrayed by the Knights Radiant. Over the next fifteen or twenty centuries, most of the accurate information about them was lost as various factions came to power and rewrote history to suit their devices. All that remained was reverence for the Heralds and mistrust of the Knights Radiant, along with a few vague hints that perhaps one Order had remained active but in hiding.
Now the Radiants are returning—in small numbers, and with no organization to support them, but they are back, on the eve of another Desolation.
The Orders

There are a few generalizations to make, but only a few. One is that each Order of the Knights Radiant bonds with a particular kind of spren. Another is that all ten Orders share their first Ideal in common:
Life before death; strength before weakness; journey before destination.
After that, as far as we know, each Order has its own set of four more Ideals, with one exception noted below. There is also an implication that each Order has some other skill, some quirk, unique to their members, which can’t entirely be explained by the Surges they manipulate. Finally, every Knight Radiant has the ability to draw in Stormlight, which they can use to heal themselves, utilize their Surges, and perhaps other things we haven’t seen yet. It’s pretty certain we haven’t seen everything yet, since we haven’t seen anyone go beyond their third Ideal… at least, not that we know…
(In the attributions below, TWoK is short for The Way of Kings, and WoR for Words of Radiance.)
So far, the only Windrunner we know of is Kaladin. Over the course of The Way of Kings, he comes to a slow understanding of the surges of gravitation and adhesion, from pulling Parshendi arrows towards himself to shield his allies, to sticking Lopen to the walls of the chasms. In Words of Radiance he begins to master the art of combining the surges in order to fly. Szeth also uses the surges of a Windrunner in the first two books, but not because he’s bonded a spren or said the oaths. His powers are bestowed on him due to his possession of Jezrien’s Honorblade, which he loses in his final battle with Kaladin in Words of Radiance.
Herald: Jezrien, sometimes called Jezerezeh
Spren type: Honorspren: “I am honorspren. Spirit of oaths. Of promises. And of nobility.” –TWoK, chapter 27
Gemstone (color): Sapphire (blue)
Surges: Adhesion (Pressure and Vacuum), Gravitation (Gravity)
Known Members (spren): Kaladin Stormblessed (Sylphrena)
Known Ideals:
- I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.
- I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.
Miscellaneous Insights:
- They use the three Lashings (Basic, Full, Reverse) which combine gravity and adhesion to allow them to appear to fly, walk on walls and ceilings, and apply these effects to others. (TWoK Ars Arcanum)
- They had squires, though we don’t know the abilities of those squires. (WoR, Ch. 54 epigraph)
- They usually worked in teams and had a specific hierarchy. (WoR Ch. 77, Shallan’s musings)
- A large number of the Windrunners were involved in the Recreance scene of Dalinar’s Feverstone Keep vision (TWoK, Ch. 52)
- Lopen and others from Bridge Four may be Windrunner squires, or may be proto-Radiants of some kind. In any case, they are developing an ability to use Stormlight, though we haven’t yet seen any spren bonds. (WoR, Ch. 87)
As of now, we have very little information about the Skybreakers. The only one we are certain of is the Herald Nale (aka Darkness), who has appeared several times in both books (and also Edgedancer, the novella contained in Arcanum Unbounded). He was present at the banquet at which Gavilar was assassinated, killed Ym, and hunted Lift. They share a surge with the Windrunners, and in Edgedancer demonstrated their ability to fly.
Herald: Nale, sometimes called Nalan
Spren type: Highspren
Gemstone (color): Smokestone (grey)
Surges: Gravitation (gravity), Division (destruction and decay)
Known Members (spren): Nalan (Herald, no spren)
Known Ideals:
- I will put the law before all else. (This is not 100% canon; it was written in someone’s book at the Philadelphia signing on the Words of Radiance tour in 2014.)
Miscellaneous Insights:
- Skybreakers had a reputation for putting “justice” above everything, including honor. (WoR Ch. 22 conversation)
- They were the last Order to be accepted/acknowledged by their patron Herald. (WoR Ch. 43 epigraph)
- They judged innocence and guilt (WoR, Ch. 54 epigraph) with an “almost divine skill” which no one could attribute to either Surge or spren. (WoR, Ch. 55 epigraph)
- Nale in his current mindset thinks that justice can only be achieved when uncorrupted by emotion. (WoR, Ch. 88 conversation)
- Szeth is told by Nale that he will make a good Skybreaker, and is given Nightblood (WoR, Ch. 88). There is no evidence of a spren bond.
- Helaran Davar sought out the Skybreakers (according to Mraize, WoR, CH. 88), but there is no indication that he actually was a Radiant; his Shardblade was a dead-spren-blade, not a living spren, as evidenced by the fact that it was left lying beside him when he died.
- In Edgedancer, Nale is seen with three trainees (including Szeth) who have some of the Skybreakers abilities—Lashings, for example—and yet do not have full Radiant status. Nale refers to them as “initiates” who will only advance to Shardbearer when they earn the trust of their spren by proving their worth.
- As of the end of Edgedancer, Nalan realizes that he has failed in his mission to destroy anyone who shows signs of a Nahel bond.
We know of no Dustbringers (yet).
Herald: Chana, also called Chanaranach, Chanarach
Spren type: unknown
Gemstone (color): Ruby (red)
Surges: Division (destruction and decay), Abrasion (friction)
Known Members (spren): none
Known Ideals: none
Miscellaneous Insights:
- They preferred to be called Releasers, and were sometimes very angry about the term “Dustbringers”, as it was very similar to “Voidbringers.” Some people thought there was a little too much similarity in the powers. (WoR, Ch. 36 epigraph)
- They could apparently make even stone burn. (TWoK, Prelude)
- Chana has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books. (Word of Peter, Oathbringer Prologue Pre-release discussion, in response to the suggestion that she might be disguised as Liss, the assassin hired by Jasnah in the WoR Prologue)
We only know of one Edgedancer: Lift. She uses the surge of abrasion to reduce her personal friction and “skate” along floors and objects, as well as making herself slippery in order to evade capture. She also has used the surge of progression to heal her friend Gawx, bringing him back from the brink of death.
Herald: Vedel, also called Vedeledev, Vev
Spren type: Cultivationspren (Edgedancer)
Gemstone (color): Diamond (clear or white)
Surges: Abrasion (friction), Progression (growth, healing, regrowth)
Known Members (spren): Lift (Wyndle)
Known Ideals:
- I will remember those who have been forgotten.
- I will listen to those who have been ignored.
Miscellaneous Insights:
- They were not the most demanding of orders, but they were graceful, limber, and deadly. They were the most articulate and refined of the Orders. (WoR, Ch. 46 epigraph)
- They could ride the thinnest rope at speed, dance across rooftops, move through a battlefield like a ribbon on the wind. (WoR, Interlude 9)
- They can perform Regrowth. (WoR, Interlude 9)
- Vedel was responsible for training surgeons in preparation for a Desolation. (WoR, Interlude 7)
- Adolin’s Shardblade originally belonged to an Edgedancer. (WoR, Ch. 50, Word of Brandon)
Renarin Kholin claims to be a Truthwatcher, seeing visions throughout Words of Radiance which led him to begin writing the numbers on the walls of his father’s room. As of yet we haven’t seen him use his surges of Progression or Illumination. It is also likely that Stump, the proprietor of the orphanage in Edgedancer, is a Truthwatcher. She has been unconsciously using stormlight to heal the orphans in her care, then mistakenly accusing them of only pretending to be sick. Prior to his death at the hands of Nale in WoR Interlude 2, the shoemaker Ym was developing into a Truthwatcher. He healed the feet of a street urchin under the pretext of fitting him for new shoes.
Herald: Paliah, also called Pali, Palah, Pailiah
Spren type: unknown
Gemstone (color): Emerald (green)
Surges: Progression (growth, healing, regrowth), Illumination (light, sound, various waveforms)
Known Members (spren): Renarin (Glys); Stump (unknown); Ym (unknown)
Known Ideals: none
Miscellaneous Insights:
- Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, never writing or speaking of what they did, making it difficult for anyone outside their Order to understand them. (WoR, Ch. 52 epigraph)
- Truthwatchers see the truth. (WoR, Ch. 89 conversation)
- It appears that some of what Truthwatchers “see” is the future, assuming Renarin really was the one who wrote all those countdown dates. (WoR, Ch. 85)
- The old woman seen pottering about the Palaneum archives in TWoK may be Paliah. (TWoK, Ch. 33)
Shallan Davar is a Lightweaver. She uses the surge of illumination to create complex illusions both stationary and mobile, and the surge of transformation to soulcast objects into other objects—most notably water into blood when she fools Jasnah into thinking she’d tried to kill herself, and her infamous failed transmutation of a stick into fire.
Herald: Shalash, also called Ash
Spren type: Cryptic
Gemstone (color): Garnet (red)
Surges: Illumination (light, sound, various waveforms), Transformation (soulcasting)
Known Members (spren): Shallan (Pattern)
Known Ideals:
- 2-5 Beyond the first Ideal, Lightweavers do not have specific Ideals they must speak. Rather, they speak truths “as an approach to a threshold of self-awareness.” (WoR, Ch. 57 epigraph, Ch. 87 conversation)
Miscellaneous Insights:
- Lightweavers were able to provide “spiritual sustenance” to the other orders, encouraging them to continue their battle. (WoR, Ch. 47 epigraph) (Also, what on earth does this mean? It almost sounds like the Lightweavers created illusions that everyone followed against all better sense.)
- Many Lightweavers pursued the arts (writers, artists, musicians, painters, sculptors); there were rumors of strange mnemonic abilities. (WoR, Ch. 49 epigraph)
- They had an affinity for the Cognitive Realm, presumably due to the Transformation surge. (WoR, Ch. 53 epigraph)
- Lightweaving has a powerful Spiritual connection, involving both the imagination and the desire of the Lightweaver. (WoR, Ars Arcanum)
- The Soulcaster enters (or partially enters) the cognitive realm to convince the soul of an object to change materials, transforming it into something else if successful. Some transformations are more basic than others, with more complicated transformations requiring a more skilled Surgebinder.
- Shallan’s Memories, where she takes a mental snapshot to draw in perfect detail later, are an artifact of her bond; it’s a “quirk” of Lightweavers. (Seattle signing event, 6 Jan 2015)
- Cryptics and Honorspren have a complex sort of conflict in Shadesmar. (WoR, Ch. 3)
- The Mistress in TWoK Interlude 7, Baxil, is in fact Shalash, going around smashing artwork for some reason; she seems to be focused on art depicting her as a Herald. (Orem signing event, 6 Dec 2014)
Jasnah Kholin is the only Elsecaller we are currently aware of. She uses the surge of transportation to travel into the parallel world of Shadesmar to fake her own death in Words of Radiance, and shares the surge of transformation (soulcasting) with Shallan. Over the course of The Way of Kings, she was using a fake soulcaster as an excuse to explain her abilities, but Shallan learned the truth when she stole it and discovered that it didn’t work.
Herald: Battar, also called Battah
Spren type: Inkspren
Gemstone (color): Zircon (blue/grey?)
Surges: Transformation (soulcasting), Transportation (motion, Realmatic transition)
Known Members (spren): Jasnah (Ivory)
Known Ideals: none
Miscellaneous Insights:
- Elsecallers were masters of the Cognitive Realm, and were the primary liaisons between humans and the greater spren. They were quite gracious with this gift, allowing others to join them on visits to Shadesmar. (WoR, Ch. 53 epigraph)
- Elsecalling provides some method of transportation via the Cognitive Realm. (WoR, Epilogue)
- During the time Jasnah was gone from Roshar’s Physical Realm, she apparently spent some time in the Cognitive Realm, interacting with the spren. From the Epilogue, it appears that she at least had conversations with the Highspren. (WoR, Epilogue)
We know next to nothing about the Willshapers at this time, except that they share the surge of transportation with the Elsecallers, so theoretically they should be able to travel between realms as Jasnah did.
Herald: Kalak, also called Kelek
Spren type: unknown
Gemstone (color): Amethyst (purple)
Surges: Transportation (motion, Realmatic transition), Cohesion (strong axial interconnection)
Known Members (spren): none
Known Ideals: none
Miscellaneous Insights:
- They were enterprising but erratic, and some thought them “capricious, frustrating, unreliable.” They were the Order whose members were the most varied in temperament, with no common characteristic but a general love of adventure, novelty, or oddity. (WoR, Ch. 50 epigraph)
- They have an affinity for the Cognitive realm, presumably due to the Transportation surge, though they are not true masters of it. (WoR, Ch. 53 epigraph)
- Kalak knew the arts of metalworking. Taln says Kalak would teach them to work bronze; steel would be better but casting is easier than forging and they would need something that could be produced quickly. (WoR, Interlude 7)
- It is possible that the “Alethi-looking man” accompanying Nale at the treaty celebration may be Kalak. (TWoK and WoR Prologues)
- There may be some connection between the Horneaters—the Unkalaki—and Kalak, at least in name.
At this time, no members of the order of Stonewards have been revealed.
Herald: Talenel, also called Taln, Talenelat, Stonesinew, Herald of War
Spren type: Unknown
Gemstone (color): Topaz (amber)
Surges: Cohesion (strong axial interconnection), Tension (soft axial interconnection)
Known Members (spren): none
Known Ideals: none
Miscellaneous Insights:
- The Stonewards considered it a point of virtue to resemble their patron Herald by exemplifying resolve, strength and dependability. They were, apparently, stubborn to a fault at times, even when proven wrong. (WoR, Ch. 37 epigraph)
- The “Ancient of Stones” (Taln) is credited with the peace and prosperity for over four millennia. (WoR, Ch. 83 epigraph)
- It seems that the reason this Desolation has been so long delayed is the iron will of Talenel; as the only Herald maintaining the Oathpact, it held until he could no longer withstand the torture. (Implied in WoR, Ch. 83 epigraph) Apparently one of the quirks of the Oathpact was that it held so long as the Heralds voluntarily stayed in “that place of torture,” but they were free to leave at any time. When any one of them couldn’t stand it anymore and left, they were all returned to Roshar to prepare for the Desolation triggered by their departure.
- Talenel was the one who trained the regular soldiers in preparation for a Desolation. (WoR, Interlude 7)
- A large number of Stonewards were involved in the Recreance as seen in Dalinar’s Feverstone Keep vision. (TWoK, Ch. 52)
- A man who identified himself as Talenel’Elin appeared at the gates of Kholinar in the TWoK Epilogue, and was transported to the Shattered Plains by one of Dalinar’s most trusted men. During that trip, the presumed Honorblade he arrived with was somehow exchanged for a regular Shardblade, albeit one that is not in the archives. Sanderson has been extremely cagey about whether or not this man is who he claims to be.
At the end of Words of Radiance, it was revealed that Dalinar Kholin is a Bondsmith. He bonded the Stormfather (the spren embodying the highstorms) himself. There seem to be a limited number of Bondsmiths as opposed to the other orders—historically only three, perhaps a few more. We have yet to see Dalinar use either of his surges.
Herald: Ishar, also called Ishi
Spren type: Stormfather, other great spren? See notes
Gemstone (color): Heliodor (golden)
Surges: Tension (soft axial interconnection), Adhesion (pressure and vacuum)
Known Members (spren): Dalinar (Stormfather)
Known Ideals:
- I will unite instead of divide; I will bring men together.
Miscellaneous Insights:
- There are very few Bondsmiths; a total of three was not uncommon for them, and they did not appreciate being pushed to grow larger as an Order. (WoR, Ch. 44 epigraph)
- The Bondsmiths had a unique ability relating to the nature of the Heralds and their divine duties. This seems to have included some insight into the nature of the Voidbringers. (WoR, Ch. 58 epigraph)
- As a Bondsmith, Dalinar will not have a Shardblade; the Stormfather refuses to be a sword or come when Dalinar calls. (WoR, Ch. 89 conversation)
- Ishar was the “founding father” of the Knights Radiant, the one who organized them and established the precepts and laws which bound them. (WoR, Ch. 42)
- It is not known whether the Stormfather is the only spren associated with the Bondsmiths, or if there is/was a small group of mega-spren or god-spren who bonded with them. According to Brandon, it’s possible for a single powerful spren to bond more than one person, so it’s possible that the Stormfather was always the sole spren of the Bondsmiths. (Yes, I know this needs a citation, but I can’t find it. When I do, I’ll edit to include it!)
Oathbringer Hopes and Expectations
Where will we go from here? It’s a fairly safe bet that the Knights Radiant will grow—personal growth, as well as numbers. But what will we see in Oathbringer? What do we want to see? In no particular order, here are some of the things we’re hoping for:
Alice:
- Information on Voidbinding. It’s been mentioned, mostly in the Ars Arcanum, and I want to know if it has the kind of levels Khriss postulates, and how they work, and if they’re parallel to Surgebinding or completely independent.
- The other Orders we haven’t seen yet: Willshaper, Dustbringer, Stoneward.
- More about what the Truthwatchers and Bondsmiths actually do. We’ve seen some of what each of the other five can do, and I’d like to see these two in action.
- Proof of Renarin’s Order. There’s been much debate about whether or not he’s really a Truthwatcher, since we haven’t seen or heard from his spren other than what he little he says about it.
- More Radiants!! With the Everstorm coming around again, and parshmen apparently turning into Voidbringers by the thousands, Roshar is going to need more than the five we’ve seen and (more or less) trust, if they’re going to defend humanity.
- Squires. How does this work? Who will they be? We’ve seen indications that some of Bridge Four may be squires already, but we don’t know what the effects are (other than the ability to draw Stormlight for healing). I’d love to see all of Bridge Four flying over the chasms or the countryside.
Lyn:
- Shardplate! Is it created from the spren/bond in the same way that the Shardblades are? Is it linked to an Ideal? If the shardblades being wielded these days have “dead” spren in them, does the shardplate as well?
- What about the rest of the Honorblades? Supposedly the Shin have most of them (WoR Interlude I-14). What are they doing with them? Will they be showing up?
How about you? What do you want to see? Did we miss anything important? Questions and comments welcomed below! Just a reminder: please avoid or white out any spoilers for Oathbringer.
Lyndsey wants a shardblade in the WORST WAY. When she has time, maybe she’ll just build one of her own… You can follow her writing or cosplay work on her website or follow her on facebook or twitter.
Alice has decided to become an Elsecaller, because instant transportation (once we figure it out) would be SO AWESOME. She hopes you have all had the opportunity to participate in the Kaladin project kickstarter by The Black Piper. If you do Facebook and aren’t already a member, do join her in the Storm Cellar group. Mention that you’re a Tor rereader and you get past any other questions!
Good stuff! Here’s my thoughts:
1. Alice – did you mean Voidbinding instead of Voidbringing? :)
2. I’m curious to see what Tension and Cohesion can do. I’m guessing tension increases the tensile strength of an object and cohesion does the opposite. I’m picturing Stonewards melting the ground beneath enemies’ feet and then hardening it to trap them.
3. I hope Squires don’t gain the full abilities of the Radiant. That kinda seems like cheating to me. It gets around the spren bond. I prefer if they can just use stormlight to heal and increase their physical abilities.
4. Does anyone know if Brandon has an official term for the “quirks” that each Order possesses? And what can we guess so far? We know for certain that Windrunners have Strength of Squires and Lightweavers have the mnemonic abilities. I’m guessing the Skybreakers’ ability to divine guilt is their quirk. Truthwatchers can see the future. Any others?
5. I wonder if the Stormfather will let Dalinar know what he can do or if Dalinar will have to find out for himself.
Regarding the Edgedancers:
I think this shows that the author of the in-world WoR is somewhat unreliable. The Ideals we’ve seen from Lift are not easy to do. People are ignored and forgotten for reasons. If further oaths require direct action rather than imply it then members of this order might face significant challenges. Especially if they exist in hierarchical societies like Alethkar or Azir.
I hadn’t realized it before, but Dalinar will probably be flying in Oathbringer.
@Werechull (great name btw) – Dalinar has the surge of Adhesion, not Gravity. He can stick one-armed Herdazians to the wall but can’t fly.
This might be helpful:
It is a wonderful article, I already linked it o my friend saying she has to read it. Thank you Alice and Lyndsey for all your work putting it together!
her infamous failed transmutation of a stick into fire *snickers* Stick lives!
Austin @@.-@ and of course also Werechull @3 – it IS a great name, I have chuckled at it since I first saw it a few years (I think) back. One day I found myself thinking, if you had been in Ilona Andrew’s “Kate Daniels” world Atlanta, you would definitely have belonged to Mahon’s Clan Heavy :)
Sorry for nitpicking but 1) Windrunners don’t use adhesion to fly, just gravitation. Though it does seem that maybe they use it somehow to avoid messy landings (cutting the rope under the bridge). and 2) Shallan doesn’t soulcast water into blood, she soulcast a solid goblet into blood (not the contents but the thing itself).
@6 – Ugh, you did not just drop an OB spoiler! Nowhere is safe anymore…
@6 and @8–it looks like the whiting out of the spoiler didn’t stick on the first try, and has now been removed by Celebrinnen. Please remember to flag the mods for technical problems or spoilers, if they come up–thanks!
Austin @1 – 1) Yes. Ooops. Will fix – thanks!
Celebrinnen @6 – Well, the authors have both read the entirety of Oathbringer, so not really… but in this is, by definition, spoiler free for a book that’s not out yet.
Also: Editing the original post to remind everyone to avoid Oathbringer spoilers.
@8, OMG, I am SO, so sorry! :( I truly am. I saw up in the beginning that includes spoilers about this and that and that and since the chapters are up here for all to see, it totally slipped my mind that some have chosen not to read them before the whole book comes out. I tried to white out that particular sentence but since something went wrong after I added that there is something whited out below and it kept showing the whole thing, I deleted my little observation altogether for the sake of the next readers. I realize it is too late for you and I can only apologize and hope I did not spoil anything too much.
Edit: Alice @10, yes, I realize this now and apologize. Usually by the time I get to the comments section, all the things I have managed to catch from the texts have already been pointed out. I should have realized there was a reason why it wasn’t mentioned in the article or the previous comments, but that’s me – tend to put my foot in my mouth any time I think I have managed to finally say something significant. Sorry once again, it bore no ill-will whatsoever.
@11 – No worries; it happens. I quickly averted my eyes when I realized what you were writing about. I saw a couple of names and a “wrist”, so I guess I know a small spoiler about surges being used. It’s ok :)
@12 thank you :)
I asked the question about spren being able to bond more than one person on Alice’s behalf in a panel at Jordancon. Brandon said yes they could, if they were very powerful. He then went on to say, “You’re on to something there.”
Ivory is an Inkspren huh? I like it. If my thought process aligns with with what Brandon will write, maybe her plate gets made from consentrationspren.
Kal/Syl-Honorspren(Blade)/Windspren(Plate)
Shallan/Pattern-Cryptic(Blade)/Creationspren(Plate)
Lyft/Windle-Cultivationspren(Blade)/Lifespren(Plate)
Jasnah/Ivory-Inkspren(Blade)/Consentrationspren?(Plate)
Last, I am beginning to suspect that different Orders get their augmentation differently during their Oath Path. With Windrunners and Honorspren being so strict, it seems logical that their path would be the most structured. Conscious Stormlight Healing and limited access to Surges after 1st Ideal, conscious access to Surges and increased Healing after 2nd Ideal, Shardblade and manifestation of special “quirks” specific to Order after 3rd Ideal, and that’s all we’ve had so far on screen. Lyft seems to follow the same progression at the same rate. We handwave Shallan having a blade at 11 years old because Lightweaver but *spoiler* if Glys is turning Shardblade already… It seems inconceivable that Renarin has spoken 3 Oaths in the short time he’s known about his Abilities (at least not without some pretty significant trauma).*end spoiler* Then we have Jasnah. She’s held continuous control of her bond the longest of all known proto-Radients but she’s not pulling an Ivoryblade until after her jaunt into Shadesmar. What Oath is she on now? The order Ishar forced upon the spren seems less like structure and more like a loose set of guidelines that maybe they follow sometimes when they feel like it.
Note: message edited by moderator to white out spoiler.
Moderator – I flagged @15 for the spoiler in the last paragraph. He’s got *spoiler* at beginning and end.
@ALL – If you wish to include a spoiler, please select the spoiler text and then select the color white from the editing selections just before you hit Post (or Quick Reply). If you Preview to see if it worked, it won’t work when you post it.
Thank you for this. It’s a nice recap.
What I want to learn at some point is why the Oath Pact was so horrible for the Heralds. That has bothered from the very start of the first book. Why would Honor of all shards, make a deal that placed “honorable” men and women into eons long torture? It is just so unfair.
@@.-@. Austin “Dalinar has the surge of Adhesion, not Gravity. He can stick one-armed Herdazians to the wall but can’t fly.”
Ah. Thanks. Good. For some reason I don’t like the idea of Dalinar flying around everywhere. As for the other matter, sadly there’s a lack of one-armed Herdazians now. I’ll miss those jokes.
Just commenting so that this will be in my conversations
@17 – My guess is that the Oath Pact has something to do with Odium being bound to the Roshar system. That’s pure speculation, though.
@17 goddessimho
Every pact has two sides. Honor was able to trap Odium into a contest that prevented him from simply splintering Honor in the same way he had destroyed other Shards. However, Odium had to have a way to win the contest. In the conflict between the ideals that both Shards represent, the Heralds stood for Honor; as long as they kept their vows and refused to surrender, Odium would be unable to break free and destroy mankind. If they were unable to bear the burden of torment, then Odium would be freed from the confines of the pact that Honor forced upon him.
Talenal held out for three thousand years. Clearly, the agreement “worked” from everyone’s perspective except the Heralds, and I don’t think Honor had the opportunity to secure a better deal.
BTW, Nice to see you on the Kaladin Kickstarter stream Alice.
Anyone here Not looked at it yet? because there are only 7 hours left. I have a vague hope of Brandon personally swooping in at the end like a De-Calamityed Epic… but I’m not holding my breath.
It was fun to see you too! Glad you were using the same handle, so I recognized you! :) It sure would be nice if someone would swoop in with that last 20K, wouldn’t it? I raised my pledge as much as I could… Sure would have been nice to win that flute, though.
ETA: I see it’s broken 90K now. I wonder what the odds are of getting the rest in 7 hours? Probably only with the aforementioned swoop, eh?
Ah, another stream in 1.5 hours and only just over 11K left. See you there.
I read that Szeth was given Nightblood. Is this actually confirmed or just supposition? It’s something I’ve wondered about. Szeth’s new sword has the same effect on people as Nightblood (Edgedancer).
Also, the figures that Ellocar sees as his “assassins”….. It’s mentioned in TWoK that he sees them as symbol heads. Is he seeing cryptic spren just as Shallan did before Pattern revealed himself? Somehow I can’t see Ellocar as a Knight Radiant
ChocolateRob @24 – not sure if I’ll be on. When it starts, I’ll be driving a 15-passenger van full of middle school girls. I may or may not have any sanity left when I get home.
Vanessa @25 – yes, it’s Nightblood.
Well that’s perfect, One MS girl to type comments for you and 14 more to read everyone else’s to you…
Question – and I might have missed the answer somewhere in the books so far – are the people of Roshar aware that the Heralds are still around and just assimilated into society? Or is this not known to Dalinar, Kaladin, etc. If so, why has no one thought to seek out the heralds for training the Knights Radiant?
WOOOOO!!! FUNDED!
Thanks for laying it all out so neatly!
WOOOOOOOOT!
Are there any theories on why the various orders are connected to other orders in the diagram? Each one is connected to the two others that share a Surge with it, which makes sense, but each is also connected to at least one more.
David @32 – There is SO MUCH about this diagram that I don’t understand yet. I want to sit down with the Dragonsteel team and get a Complete Explanation from them… but I doubt they’d give it to me!
I don’t think that’s what the “spiritual sustenance” means. Lightweavers deal in truth as much as falsehoods/illusions. My interpretation is that it’s something akin to what Shallan did with Gaz and Co, giving people something to aspire to, showing them a better version of themselves, give them hope and resolve to go on when the battle goes poorly.
tkThompson @34 – My bad for not including the whole quotation:
It’s actually the wording of that second part that brought on the question – especially “they were enticed…” That just sounds deceitful and manipulative to me. Perhaps it’s similar to what Shallan did; Stormfather knows that some of the men were very much affected by seeing themselves as what they could be, rather than what they were. It would have to be done on a much larger scale, if they’re affecting entire orders, though, so probably not drawing idealized pictures of each person.
@35: It seems clear to me that once Shallan adds Transformation to her Illumination skills, she will be able to create things at a whole other scale. She’ll basically have control over both matter and energy. Her creations would be impressive indeed then. Perhaps even create things that can help with assaults, etc.
Wow! I needed this! I have handwritten notes (in pencil) in my copy of WoR, trying to out-line this! But I couldn’t figure out what surges some of the orders used.I have updated these accordingly.
Who is the Herald who still exists? And what order does he represent?
Maybe my biggest burning question is, how does Cultivation feature in Surgebinding?
Of the dishardic systems we’ve seen, there is Sel, where there are two dead Shards and a bunch of mostly unrelated magic systems, Scadrial, where both Shards have remained alive and unSplintered, with three deeply intertwined (but still distinct) magic systems, and Roshar, where one Shard is Splintered and one is not. Plus Odium.
Voidbinding is, presumably, Odium’s magic, but omgwtfbbq is Cultivation’s? It’s killing me.
Something I was thinking about on my drive to work today. So when Windrunners (and presumably Skybreakers) use Gravitational lashings, their perspectives shift so that the world is always under their feet. For instance, when they lash themselves to the wall, the wall becomes down for them, the opposite wall becomes the ceiling, the floor becomes a wall to one side and the ceiling (or open sky) becomes the other side.
So how does the perspective thing work when they fly? They lash themselves to the sky above, which becomes down for them as they start “falling” right? So the ground is now above them in their perspective? But they fly up headfirst, so I’m assuming it looks like, to them, that they’re falling into open sky headfirst, like a skydiver, except they’re moving away from the ground…And once they hit a desirable height, they stop lashing up and then lash sideways. So now they would think they’re falling headfirst into the horizon, which is now down for them? Which means the opposite horizon is the ceiling, the ground to one side and the open sky to the other? I’m just having trouble visualizing how flying would work with the perspective shifts.
@1 The order unique abilities are apparently called Resonances.
@2 The Edgedancer are not demanding of other people. Compared with the Skybreakers.
@25 Yes there was a WoB confirming it but refusing to explain how Vasher/Zahel and Nightblood got seperated.
@28 No. Gavilar thought he needed to start a Desolation to summon them. Hoid, Taravangian and the Skybreakers presumabley know, but not the Sons of Honor or the general public.
@38 The Knights have to develop and grow to get through their Oaths.
My guess as to the WoR epigraph quotes is that outright alterations aside, it’s being read through multiple sequential translations and meaning can get distorted, particularly if one of the translations used a euphemism to convey information. The Lightweaver quote could have started out by plainly stating “they tricked the other Knight into rallying by using illusions” in as many words and a few translation iterations later we a very polite, uncritical and unwieldy statement that mentions spiritual sustenance. I could also see the Elsecaller quote starting out as something that specifically chastised that order for jealously controlling diplomatic access to the spren by filtering it through themselves, and ending up as an endorsement of their behavior as nuance is stripped away by serial translation.
@39:
To paraphrase Woody from Toy Story, “That’s not flying! Its falling, with style!”
@Wetlandernw, someone got an ideal written in their book “I will stand when others fall”
Probably a stoneward thing, but could you add it with a theoretical tag?
JDD @43 – We debated trying to fit that quote in somewhere, but finally decided not to. It’s too speculative.
Thanks Alice/Lyndsey, Great Summary,
I love Brandon’s complex and nearly scientific magic systems. The system is almost like a character itself, one that I can’t wait to see fleshed out.
The biggest question I have right now is how unique is each order? Are two different orders that share a surge able to utilize that surge in the same way? Does the combination of surges create some unique ability? Can knights of one order interact with the abilities of others?
I’m also excited to see how creative Brandon can make the characters in using their surges. This is part of what I think make Vin such a powerful mistborn. She wasn’t necessarily stronger or technically proficient then others, but she used the abilities in very creative ways. In what creative ways will our Knights Radiants use their abilities? I’m particularly excited to see the various orders work together creatively combining their abilities (kind of like how Wax and Wayne work together)
@39 I assume they orient themselves so the enemy gate is always down…
Just a word of caution about whiting out spoilers. The best way is to just NOT POST SPOILERS. Whiting out the text doesn’t prevent people from being spoiled if:
• They are using screen readers to assist them
• They come across your post in an RSS feed
• They’ve adjusted the color of the background using a plug-in or CSS to reduce eye strain.
• They see your post on your activity page, which doesn’t carry through styling changes.
Whiting spoiler text out is a hack, not a solution, and its a limited hack that doesn’t cover all the ways people consume the comments here on Tor. Its best to just not intentionally post spoilers, even whited out.
@45 – Re: Surge use differences between orders – I wonder that myself. As of end of WoR/Edgedancer, we’ve only seen 2 Surges (Regrowth and Transformation) used by 2 different Orders (Regrowth – Lift/Edgedancer and Ym/Truthwatcher; and Transformation – Jasnah/Elsecaller and Shallan/Lightweaver). Admittedly, I’m ignoring the use of Gravitation in Edgedancer for now as that was a very quick and incomplete glimpse.
I found it noteworthy that Ym heals the child differently then how Lift heals people (Ym by touch, Lift by breathing on them). The qualifier being that Lift isn’t your standard, everyday Edgedancer, so we don’t know if the difference is just with her or with her entire Order. As for Transformation/Soulcasting, we haven’t seen a lot of it from Shallan, but when she does need to do it she requires Pattern to intercede on her behalf (except for the goblet-to-blood action, I think). With Jasnah, she did not seem to need Ivory to facilitate anything in Shadesmar, based on what we’ve seen in WoK and WoR. However, we didn’t really get a complete picture of the process in those circumstances, either.
Bottom line: we still need to get more information, but from what little we’ve seen, there do appear to be some differences.
Also, I love the Ender reference…
@45 & @47 – There’s always a WoB :)
And I believe that the “side effects” Brandon is referring to are the Resonances (is that term official?) or the unique ability for each Order that results from the blending of the two surges. But basically the surges themselves act pretty much the same for the two Orders that overlap.
I also want to know more about squires, and especially how they work in different orders. While we know that Windrunners have the most, and also the strongest squires, they aren’t the only order who has them. Has anyone speculated about which orders will end up with squires or not?
The orders we know for sure are I believe the Windrunners, and also the Dustbringers (if the radiant in the lake vision really was a Dustbringer, which seems likely). Stonewards also seem the type to have squires.
A lot of people have been talking about Shallan getting Vathah and Gaz as squires, but I don’t believe her order is going to be one of those who has them. They just seem too.. individual, and personalized. Vathah and Gaz won’t really be able to live according to Shallan’s truths the same way Bridge Four can with Kaladin’s oaths.
I think other orders that are unlikely to have squires are the Bondsmiths (there’s only three of them), Truthwatchers (also too individual) and the Willshapers (always wandering off somewhere). Could be the Edgedancers as well, but then again maybe the Edgedancers also gather a random collection of people they run into, much like Kaladin. :) We’ve seen some suggestions that Edgedancers are very good at talking to and connecting to people on their own level, like Lift. (That’s probably why the very fancy scholars thought those Edgedancers were so refined.) Their oaths involve listening to those who have been ignored, and making these people squires might be a good way to give them a voice as well. :)
Then what we have left are the Skybreakers and the Elsecallers. Those two are interesting, because to me it seems they are very much based on a more externalized system of living (laws and logic), compared to a very personal morality (Windrunners can apparently disagree about whether an oath has been kept or not) or personal truths. This makes these two orders the most ‘teachable’ in a way. We know Nalan had a small group of Skybreaker.. minions that were progressing under his tutelage, and he said he could train Szeth to be a Skybreaker as well.
Elsecallers are a very logical, rational order, and you could train people in this method of thinking. So Elsecallers might have a ward/squire that they are training, much like how Jasnah was teaching Shallan.
@21 dptullos, where did you get this information about the Oathpact and the Heralds’ role in it? Is this from the Oathbringer sample chapters or your own theory? Or is it Word of Brandon?
Shallan doesn’t try much soulcasting, but she uses transformation in other ways, to improve people through her art.
@47, I’m glad someone got my Ender reference:)
And good points about Ym and Lift seeming to use progression differently. This whole question has arisen for me because it just seems odd that if each order can do something that another order can do why do they seem to be so specialized. The in-world Words of Radiance quotes make each order sound so different. Why were edgedancers so graceful, that they could “ride the thinnest rope at speed, dance across rooftops, move through a battlefield like a ribbon on the wind” while dustbringers sound like they are anything but graceful even though they share the surge of friction which is what would allow an Edgedance to be so graceful. If friction worked in the same way for dustbringers it seems like they could be just as graceful.
It also seems curious to me that the Kaladin hasn’t shown Dalinar how to use adhesion. Similarly, Shallan has not worked with Renarin on illusion.
@48, thanks for the WOB, that does pretty much clear it up, although I do still have my questions above, or rather, I’m interested to see how Brandon reconciles the two. none of my observations mean each order actually does use each surge uniquely, they just kind of give me a sense that they don’t. But I suppose I do have to admit that your WOB trumps my gut feeling
Good article, just one thing some of us Sharders would like to point out. In the article you say that Ishar gave the Radiants the Ideals, presumably sourcing the in word Words of Radiance, but that epigraph does not say that Ishar did any such thing, that’s an inference that you guys are presenting to people as fact. I myself asked Sanderson if anyone conciously created the Ideals and he answered pretty much in the negative:
BLIGHTSONG
Were the oaths of the Knights radiant consciously chosen, or did they happen naturally.
BRANDON SANDERSON
*apprehension*. This is one of those vague ones in that yes and no. They are a natural outgrowth of the spren, but the spren are a natural outgrowth of human’s perception of natural forces, but the spren are sentient, so I would say it’s a little more by instinct than not. For example to Knights Radiant in the same order might speak the words differently, but the concept is the same. You will see this happen in a future book, where a Windrunner will speak the oaths. It’s a slightly different take on the same concept. Some are moreso, like Shallan’s oaths are very individualized truths, so.
If you’re looking outside the books, here are three more pieces of information that are relevant:
Tension is the ability to take something flexible and make it rigid. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1108#24
Cohesion is altering things at a molecular level, so you can push your hand into a table and leave a handprint. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6584-seattle-signing-orders-and-surges-confirmed-d/#comment-107583 This may be what is referred to through the myth of Radiants ‘melting stone.’
There are three spren that can bond to create a Bondsmith. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/4r6ds5/oathbringer_spoilers_stormlight_three_update_3/d69n5a5/?context=3
Thank you Alice and Lyndsey! This clears up a lot of straggling questions I have had in mind. This is so concise and to the point and much easier to grasp in this way than having read about these in various chapters. I appreciate it.
I haven’t…Didn’t see….anything about the King in there except once. Is it possible he could be something related to the Radiants? The way he described the ‘figures’ sounded like they were Cryptics.
Faile @57 – we removed all the speculation of who might be where… there’s just too much.
Note that this speculation is not a spoiler (haven’t read beyond the beginning of the preview Oathbringer chapters), and also not a request for spoilers.
Stormfather doesn’t want to be a blade? What if Dalinar repeats his earlier trick and bonds a blade nobody expects … the Honorblade Kaladin brought back? It would give him four Surges.
We know that the Nahel Bond makes spren sentient in the physical world, and that as the Radiant says more oaths, the spren gets smarter. So … what will a smarter Stormfather be like?
@38: what makes you think Cultivation is not splintered? I had assumed that she was.
Note the Radiant terminology of “knights” and “squires”. Roshar was never medieval Earth, where does this terminology come from exactly? Is it like “hound” (as Hoid muses), words that were actually imported from Earth somehow?
@53, Up until the end of Words of Radiance, which is as far as I’ve gotten having chosen to abstain until the whole of Oathbringer comes out, there just wasn’t that much time for people to share. But there’s also the question of whether Dalinar and Kaladin know about the Surge they have in common.
@51 tkThompson
I do have text evidence for the idea that the Heralds’ torment is connected to the Desolations. There’s a Taravangian snippet where he discusses how the return of the KR doesn’t trigger the Desolation, and that only Talenel’s determination has has kept the world safe in the thousands of years since the “Last Desolation”.
From that, I guessed that the Heralds can somehow prevent Odium from returning as long as they resist his torment, as Talenel has prevented Odium’s return in the many centuries since the previous Desolation. The stuff about the pact was guesswork, though. The Desolations are definitely connected to the Heralds’s torment, but I don’t know exactly how.
The in-world book Words of Radience is currently in Shallan’s possession. It should have descriptions of the various Orders and their Surges. It ought to be required reading for the new proto-Radients. Assuming it is then Dalinar should know he shares a surge with Kaladin, at least by now he should.
EvilMonkey @@@@@ 62 … of course Dalinar can’t read, but someone could read it to him.
Thanks for this – it’s a lot of good information (especially about the Honorblades, which I was always fuzzy about).
Reading about the Lightweaver’s assistance in battle kind of makes me think of ‘Battle Meditation’ in the old Jedi Knight comic books.
Let me know if I’m wrong here, but I thought Ym was an Edgedancer? Isn’t it Wyndle that he is talking to? And later I seem to remember Wyndle talking about how he could have bonded with a shoemaker instead of Lyft?
Great summary post, here is my personal list of wishes:
1) I want to see more Radiants. They do not need to be viewpoint characters or major protagonists, but I would love to see new ones pop by.
2) I want to see more than one Radiant per order. Having just one makes us think all future members need to be carbon copy of the first one. I want to read how different various members from a given order can be, how different their progression can be and how the same oaths can be said in different ways through different ordeal.
3) I want to get a better visibility as to why some characters were made (or on the verge of being made) Radiants. If I find the rational easy to figure out for some characters, I find it lacking for others.
4) I want to get a stronger understanding of why some characters were left out of being made Radiants. It is not always clear and the process seems either semi-random or arranged for main narrative purposes. I therefore want the choosing criteria to be explored in more depth.
Sorry to comment so late but I have been thinking about the links between Lightweaving and Soulstamping. Soul casting is practically permanent soul stamping. I believe that soul casting is permanent because it includes a cognitive change instead of a physical stamp. Also, it requires spiritual power from stormlight which prevents the transformation from degrading. I think those are the main two differences between the systems.
I also notice that some of Shallan’s work with different personalities such as Veil is like mini Essence Marks, changing her history and thoughts while she takes on that persona. This is what Shai can do in Emperor’s Soul.
Both of these thoughts leads into my next thought on the “spiritual sustenance” Lightweavers provide. Especially with Bluth, Shallan draws him as he could have been, another similarity to Soul Forgery. It’s almost like a mini essence mark that allows him to choose to become that version of himself if he wishes. I imagine that the spiritual sustenance is similar. Lightweavers could encapsualte spiritual attributes like courage, strength, or energy in their drawing and let others draw on / become like them. Magically, I think Lightweaver are creating a Connection between an Identity and an attribute, (likely an Identity of its own in the spiritual realm as well), that lets people draw on that attribute to overcome hardship and strengthen themselves.
I think this is Brandon exploring the transformative and inspiring power of Art. Illusions are usually deceptive and he is playing on that here, especially with Pattern and telling lies to tell the truth. What if the stories we tell about ourselves can become reality? Since Lightweaving has Illumination and Transformation, this order not only transforms physical reality through soulcasting and illusions, it can also transform through inspiration. I suspect Truthwatchers with Progression will combine healing with illumination, possible healing mental diseases like the Mad Herald and helping people come to grips with who they are instead of who they could be.
Thanks for reading my thoughts.
Vulcronos
@65 – Ym was watched by both types but apparently bonded by a Truthwatcher spren (I think this was a WoB) which shows a person can be a candidate for multiple orders (the exact selection process would be interesting to know).
@67 – mmm, interesting :) I like the connections.
@65 – To the interview database!
Ahhhh, thanks!
@38 i have this theory (which might or might not have been spoken before) that Cultivation is the one that gives the Boon & Curse thing (Night…something… i suffer from some kind of memory lapse right now. :) ) We know that Cultivation is a woman from one of Dalinar’s visions. Also, Hoid says at some point that the only woman close to his age nearby might not be very fond of him. The one with the Old Magic (B&C system) is also a woman and … well… old, hence the Old Magic. Seems to me that it can only be cultivation.
So you have surges from Honor, Voiding from Odium and Old Magic from Cultivation.
@71 – That is some excellent thinking. Now I’m debating whether I should shoot down your theory with a quote from Brandon…let me know if you would like to hear what he has to say on the subject :)
@72 Sure…shoot ahead. Those are only some connections i’ve made that might or might not be correct.
So please, do say. :)
@73 – Lol ok
And this:
So…there is a connection. Oh well.
I wonder…does that mean that cultivation i also dead?
@75 – Cultivation is still alive. It’s kinda funny going through the interview database because Brandon said a few years ago that she is still alive. But then more recent questions got a RAFO. And then finally last December he said:
“It is not known whether the Stormfather is the only spren associated with the Bondsmiths, or if there is/was a small group of mega-spren or god-spren who bonded with them.”
Ok, so what if the water-column spren (I want to say “Chalicesh”?) from the interlude with the guy who studies new types of spren (e.g. intoxicationspren, etc.) bonds with Bondsmiths???
With Oathbringer out can we get an update on this