The last time I had anything of length to say about the Culture novels of Iain M. Banks, I remarked with regard to Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and the novella The State of the Art that “one of these four works is, in my opinion, Banks’s finest; which one and why I think so is a matter for another, longer examination.” Well, the time has come for that longer examination and … I’m afraid you’ll have to wait a little while longer for the details. But I hope to make it worth your while.
Over the next several months (well in to 2019 and possibly beyond, if I’m honest, given a biweekly publishing schedule and novels that get increasingly doorstop-like as we progress), I’ll be making my way through the Culture novels, in order of publication. We’ll kick things off properly in two weeks, but before we begin, I thought I’d launch with a little background on the series and why I love it, and some remarks on how I’ll be going about this.
The first published Culture novel was Consider Phlebas in 1987, though Banks had made an earlier stab at writing a Culture story in the 1970s, with a draft of a novel that would eventually be shaped into 1990’s Use of Weapons. At the time of Phlebas’s publication, he had already made a splash with the memorably upsetting non-SF novel The Wasp Factory, and until his death in 2013, he would publish with hair-raising regularity and speed; he left us with nine Culture novels and a collection of stories, as well as a brace of non-Culture SF novels and an entire body of non-SF work published as “Iain Banks”, sans the M.
Of the Culture’s origins, Banks, in an interview with Jude Roberts published at Strange Horizons, said, “Partly it was in reaction to a lot of the SF I was reading at the time. The British stuff mostly seemed a bit miserablist and the US’s too right wing. I wanted SF that combined what I regarded as the best of both: the thoughtfulness and sense of proportion of the UK’s and the energy and optimism of the US brand.” Earlier, in an interview with Spike magazine, Banks had also claimed that, “It’s basically a lot of wish fulfilment, I write about all the things I would like to have … I’d had enough of the right-wing US science fiction, so I decided to take it to the left. It’s based around my belief that we can live in a better way, that we have to. So I created my own leftist/liberal world.” I rather think Banks sells himself a little short here. If the Culture novels were simply about the pleasures of a post-scarcity socialist utopia, they’d have gotten really boring, really quickly.
There’s no denying that Banks’s sympathies and ideals lie with the Culture—he says as much in the Roberts interview: “let’s face it; La Culture: c’est moi.” But the complexities of his project are readily apparent from the start. Consider Phlebas doesn’t begin within the Culture, or even with their allies—the protagonist is an agent for a different spacefaring civilization that is at devastating interplanetary war with the Culture. Our first glimpse of Banks’s utopia is through the eyes of someone deeply skeptical of it, who finds their entire civilization to be soft, suspect, and far too dependent on the artificial intelligences that, he suspects, run the show to the detriment of the Culture’s humans. (In the Roberts interview, he self-deprecatingly claims that this was bending over backwards to present the opposing view, but I’d argue that his having done so actually makes his worldbuilding more effective. More on this in the coming weeks.)
To live within the Culture, if you take Banks at his word, is to be comfortable, to have the freedom to pursue your interests without the burden of financial dependence, to be treated equally regardless of gender or biology, and to never be exploited. But how does such a civilization sustain itself? How does it react to opposition? How does discontent manifest in a setting in which opposition is simply another valid point of view? What is your responsibility to others whose lives are subject to authoritarian rule, famine, disease, or other hardships, and how do you fulfill that responsibility without becoming a colonizer?
A few years back, Mordicai Knode remarked here that the Culture’s answer is to essentially turn the Prime Directive inside-out; interference in civilizations with the potential for improvement is treated as a moral necessity. This is the zone where the Culture, to a writer and to a reader, becomes truly interesting. Thus, the Culture novels chiefly involve the arm of the Culture known as Contact, and particularly the subsection called Special Circumstances, a dirty-tricks organization that puts any real world spy organization in the shade. Here is where the ethics of the Culture’s philosophies become grey; here is where its very structure can be interrogated. The Culture way of life, it’s argued, is a net good—but, Banks suggests through his stories, the citizens of such a society must always examine the costs of how they got there and how they sustain themselves; they are obligated by their privilege to help those less fortunate, but in going about it, the answer to “what is permissible” is rarely clear-cut, and there are always consequences.
These ideas can get very heavy, but of course, Banks is also funny. The Ship names are practically legendary among SF readers (just ask a Banks fan about the “Gravitas” running gag), and the dialogue and narration sparks with jokes and humor that can be delightfully dry or shockingly dark. And Banks probably delivers more eyeball kicks per chapter than some writers manage in entire novels. His imagination is capacious; little ideas that might spawn whole other novels are mentioned in an aside and let go in the next chapter. A Culture novel may be excessively twisty, or rambly, or long, but there is always something exciting to be found, something you probably haven’t read or thought of before. And—one should note—some of it can be absolutely nightmare-inducing. Just wait until we get to Fwi-Song in Consider Phlebas, or the identity of the Chairmaker in Use of Weapons.
All of these factors are what make the Culture novels classics—this unusually heady blend of politics, philosophy, psychological drama, humor, and sheer imagination, all wrapped up in truly excellent prose. And there’s so much more to discuss; I haven’t even mentioned the intriguing complexities of gender in the Culture novels, for instance. Over the coming months, I’m looking forward to discussing all of these things, exploring how Banks develops his themes through his novels, and just generally sharing my love of these books. Each post will tackle two to four chapters at a time; depending on the structure of a given book, I’ll adjust my approach as necessary. (I already know that I’ll be taking on Use of Weapons in two-chapter segments, for instance.) There will probably be some spoilers mixed in there, though if you happen to be reading the Culture novels for the first time alongside my re-read, I’ll try to be circumspect.
So join me here again in two weeks, when we dive into Consider Phlebas, and wade into the Culture’s war with the Idirans. I hope you enjoy it.
Karin Kross was introduced to the Culture novels by her husband, who she met by way of a shared affection for William Gibson and Jane Austen. This is clearly proof that all good relationships should be founded on shared love of literature. She can be found elsewhere on Twitter and Tumblr.
Gravitas…running joke? I must be a member of that other Iain M Banks fanclub. The ones that really likes Feersum Endjinn. I’ll be watching you.
Have been wanting for a long time to read these novels. This gives me the perfect excuse to actually carve out time to do so. Looking forward to it!
I think this and the Oathbringer rereads are the first ones for books I’ve read or am in the process of reading that I’m here for the start of, so I might actually participate in discussion rather than read ones that happened years back.
Started the series last year. Only read through Use of Weapons so far, but it was one of my favorite books of 2017.
I rather think Banks sells himself a little short here. If the Culture novels were simply about the pleasures of a post-scarcity socialist utopia, they’d have gotten really boring, really quickly.
First let me say I have enjoyed reading most of the Culture novels and I am happy to see this series review.
With that said lets be real clear for any readers who have never read any of the books. The Culture is all about a liberal socialist utopia society.
Humans have really evolved past what we consider human today. People routinely change sex, ending any real difference in the sexes beyond the body parts. Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll, anything goes. Very few rules or cultural pressure to adhere to any kind of moral or societal norms. In effect a true liberal socialist utopia society.
Being I lean a bit to the right and consider myself conservative, I find it surprising I enjoy these novels. The entire premise is fairly unique and the stories are well written. I am really looking forward to going through these novels with the TOR community.
i’m confused as to why The Culture is classified as Leftist in a post-scarcity setting,which lacks ‘division of resource’ issues required to define the liberal-left and conservative-right. I accept that it fits both Socialist and Libertarian dreams but cannot fit its functionality ( governance, rights, resources, influences, etc. ) with any ‘real-world’ political spectrum.
I don’t know what it is, but I’ve tried really hard to like the Culture series. I just can’t seem to care about it. I thought Consider Phlebas was decent. I did enjoy Player of Games, but I kept nodding off during Use of Weapons and gave up halfway through. I do appreciate the sassy drones.
There’s a political science concept (don’t know if it’s still in use) where the political spectrum is not linear, but circular. The ideologies meet at a place that’s roughly libertarian. Liberal social issues bump up against the no-to-little government crowd.
That’s why in previous discussions here about Banks see some of the novels as libertarian. Banks wasn’t one and, at least at the outset, developed his work as a counter to American libertarian writers like Heinlein.
The problems in Culture novels (as was said) arrive when it interacts with other civilizations, especially when it has to use Special Circumstances, which bends or breaks the rules to achieve its goals.
Btw, the link to previous article appears to be broken.
@7 – The link has been fixed, thanks!
This is going to be great. I’m excited to explore the Culture with you as our guide.
I really like the Culture series, but I didn’t like every book in it. I didn’t like Consider Phlebas very much (I think I had trouble following its plot); I thought Use of Weapons was a bit ruined by cheap tricks; I didn’t much like Matter.
On the other hand I loved Player of Games, Inversions, Excession, Surface Tension, and especially Look to Windward, which is my favorite of the Culture novels.
I am also a member of Poortambo’s fan club of Feersum Endjinn. And of the Algebraist, especially the part set on the gas giant. Against a Dark Background I had trouble getting through.
@5 Well from an economic standpoint, in a strict since there really is no left/right in an economy like the Culture. When everything a person wants they can have, in a larger since there is NO economy.
There certainly is a liberal slant to the social structure of the Culture. NOTHING outside of violence against others was even frowned upon let alone against the rules. I can’t see how it can be seen as anything other than liberal.
I started Consider Phlebas a few months ago and planned on reading some additional Culture novels this year. I have never read them before. I’m currently writing a YA sci-fi series with a “liberal socialist utopia” so I figured it would be excellent research. So I’m in on this re-read and the associated discussions, quite looking forward to it actually.
@12 If you want an older, and what I consider a better example of human nature vs post-scarcity setting, try Kurt Vonnegut’s Player Piano. I really do enjoy the Culture books but I think Player Piano is a more realistic possibility.
Look to Windward is my favorite, Surface Detail is the one I’ve never been able to power through. I think Matter has the most interesting idea.
I am super excited about this. I love the Culture novels, though I discovered them late and am only up through Excession in publishing order (I slowed down to savor them when Banks died; I dread when I eventually finish them and have no more to look forward to).
@sdzald
The Culture is not liberal; it would be more more accurately described as leftist, and more specifically anarchist. It would place far bottom-left on the political compass (as limited a tool as that is for understanding political positions).
It is pretty much the ne plus ultra of what is referred to by the meme Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism.
@Sunspear
I believe you’re getting at horseshoe theory, but you don’t have it quite right. But that’s okay as it’s a pretty discredited way of describing people’s politics. It states that the far left and far right converge, but claims that they converge on authoritarianism. Wikipedia has a summary of some basic criticisms, but basically it relies on the notion that there is a simple, one-dimensional political spectrum from left to right and ignores what the (again, insufficient itself) political compass uses as a separate axis, the authoritarian to libertarian spectrum (libertarian here NOT being synonymous with the parties and ideologies that currently use that name, which would be bottom-right on the compass).
I’ll leave off here to avoid arguing politics too much, as I already do that more than enough other places, but I imagine it will necessarily come up again in discussing the Culture.
@15. xaaronx: “I believe you’re getting at horseshoe theory.”
Don’t think that’s it, but it’s similar enough. What I studied was in the ’80s and the wiki says earliest “horseshoe” reference was in 2002. Of course, the political spectrum has shifted a lot in 30 years.
May have been something closer to this: open-closed political spectrum
he left us with nine Culture novels and a collection of stories, as well as a brace of non-Culture SF novels and an entire body of non-SF work published as “Iain Banks”, sans the M.
Nitpick: three non-Culture novels; Against A Dark Background, Feersum Endjinn, The Algebraist. And I’d put Transition in there as well, even though it was published by “Iain Banks” rather than “Iain M. Banks”.
Kind of stumped why Tor discontinued things like the Malazan re-read but will freely start up other ones? Anyway, at least this will be a good one.
For those who’d like a more in depth discussion of space politics (and I imagine the re-read will be avoiding this just to keep the comments section under some kind of control), there’s the works of Bank’s long time friend, Ken MacLeod.
By all accounts they spent all the time they weren’t talking about sci-fi instead talking about politics. His Fall Revolution books explore future societies at various extremes of socialism, communism, libertarianism, liberalism and anarchism. If you look carefully, you can spot the character based on Banks pop up.
In fact, the area they both grew up together, near the Forth bridges appears in both of their writing.
Few protagonists of Banks’ Culture novels spend a great proportion of their time in the Culture (in the case of Inversions, the Culture is entirely off-screen). Utopias, whatever their charms for the hoi polloi, make for uninteresting stories and characters.
@20/Gerry_Quinn: I’ve only read Consider Phlebas, and found the main character so unlikeable that I didn’t care whether he lived or died. This made the story rather uninteresting. Guess I’m one of the hoi polloi.
@21. JanaJansen: yeah, many people can’t get past the protagonist in Phlebas. It put me off for years till I read somewhere that the Culture were supposed to be the good guys, or at least, the sympathetic ones.
Possible spoilers for those who haven’t read Phlebas yet:
The book is basically told from the point of view of a Culture enemy and religious zealot to boot. It’s like a Federation/Starfleet story told thru the eyes of Klingon. The inversion in perspective doesn’t come till the end of the book. Been awhile since I read it, but it may not even become clear till the epilogue or appendix that the Culture ship AIs are the good actors in the war.
Note: spoiler whited out by moderator.
Thank you. Also, for anyone who wants a well-written critical overview of Banks’ books, I recommend the recent volume by Paul Kincaid from the Masters of Science Fiction series.
I can’t remember exactly my first reading of Consider Phlebas, but I think it became clear around halfway through that Horza wasn’t working for the good guys and wasn’t a good guy himself. The Culture may have been his opposition, but it seemed that the author treated them more sympathetically than Horza’s employers. I found the book interesting for that alone; I don’t always need to read about the good guys, sometimes I want to look at the bad guys to see how bad they are.
In the end, despite the middle of the book very entertainingly resembling a bad session of the Traveller RPG where the party nearly get totally killed, I found it a bit of a downer. However, since I was already a fan of Banks from reading The Wasp Factory, I carried on reading his work, devouring Walking on Glass as soon as it was published, and loving The Player of Games when that came out. And Use of Weapons just blew me away. UoW still gets my vote for his best, though I think The Hydrogen Sonata comes close.
The above description is one view of what Banks’ Culture novels are about, but there are others. Banks himself said “La Culture: c’est moi,” and that’s pretty accurate. What we have in The Culture is a liberal/progressive wet dream without the consequences or nasty problems with conscience. The solution is brilliant: numerous ultra-powerful and semi-autonomous AIs do the dirty work necessary to keep The Culture humming along, at the behest of a few humans who don’t fit in to the nonstop narcissistic hedonism of The Culture mainstream, who have instead gravitated into Special Circumstances, which is where the licenses to kill are handed out and extreme prejudice is a familiar tool. Comparatively few pages are devoted to The Culture proper, where even nonstop orgies had become boring centuries before. Some of these novels are better than others, but this is the overarching theme.
@25. rico567: “The Culture is a liberal/progressive wet dream without the consequences or nasty problems with conscience.”
To a degree, that’s true. but it’s also science fiction. It’s not just post-scarcity in current political terms, it’s literally post-scarcity. Banks doesn’t spell it out much, but something along the lines of unlimited hydrogen mining from gas giants. These days astrophysics would allow for even more exotic forms of harvesting energy or turning it into matter.
It’s not ultimately important how the Culture thrives. But they are beyond our current ideologies (based on limited material and energy resources), or are supposed to be. The grinding edge happens when SC has to deal with less evolved civilizations, where in essence, the Culture is brought down to their level, like in Inversions. That’s where the interesting stories are. If it were Star Trek, not sure people would watch a show about Starfleet operations on Earth. We want to be out there, where the exciting things happen.
It is fascinating that this brilliant writer wanted to create a ‘liberal/left’ socialist Culture and present it as a positive yet the only way he could imagine making it work was by having the humans become dependent pets of a superior and essentially god-figure AI group. The AI’s have their own life, death and conflict –including mental illness and war. The Humans–toys at best and afterthoughts most of the time.for the Ai’s , are really superfluous and I you go through the books waiting for the AI’s to just get rid of them .In the later books, banks presents alternate societies that solved the ‘culture’ issue totally differently and actively disdain the Culture for the humans essentially giving up autonomy for coddling.
The Culture books are massively ironic in that by series end, you see even Banks came more and more to be disdainful of the Culture Humans.The Hydrogen Sonata is really Bank’s own rebuttal of the socialist/liberal Culture.
I love these novels, and Banks was a fantastic writer. His ear for dialog was excellent, I could often hear how the characters talked in my head (the best example being the non-Culture novel, “The Algebraist”; the dialog just really flowed). I love the absolute gonzo future technology he created, and the ship names are hands down the best in the industry.
The first of his I read was Use of Weapons, which is a topsy-turvy confusing story, and I fell in love almost at page 1.
Regarding the Gravitas running gag — I had to look this up myself. It was hitting some of my memory cells but couldn’t dredge it up until I poked around. From an interview with the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/11/iainbanks-science-fiction) I found the following description
This will be an interesting series. I’ve always liked the Culture novels. My personal favorite was Excession because it seemed to have the best ship bits.
Always wanted to read this series and a Tor re-read is a good time as ever! Just borrowed it from the library, can’t wait to start!
The “humans as pets of the Minds” interpretation is of course a perpetual debate. it’s an issue any fiction with strong AI needs to deal with, whether it’s a socialist utopia or not.
I tend to think “pets” mischaracterizes the relationship. “Consider Phlebas” says that the war with the Idirans was the choice (later implied to be through voting) of the non-Mind inhabitants of the Culture, and a lot of Minds died in that; there are relatively few instances in Earth civilization of people going to war for the wishes of their pets.
The book also points out that the accumulated intelligence of the vastly larger number of humanoids can be comparable to the resources of the Minds. This becomes less clear later on, though there are still examples of individual humanoids outhinking individual Minds. (Ironically, war-driven shipbuilding probably also led to a significant decrease in the human-to-Mind ratio, though.)
It’s clearly not a peer relationship, but I think “pets” or “gods” doesn’t really state it properly either. I’m sure it’ll be revisited repeatedly as we go forward.
It will be wonderful to revisit these! I stumbled upon The Bridge first, and I had to read anything else I could get my hands on, which was difficult 20 years ago.
What a fitting tribute to my favorite author!
Thank you.
@27. Alan: “The Culture books are massively ironic in that by series end, you see even Banks came more and more to be disdainful of the Culture Humans.The Hydrogen Sonata is really Bank’s own rebuttal of the socialist/liberal Culture.”
These are both highly debatable statements. Yes, Banks interrogates the Culture’s ideals, more and more with each book. But it’s misleading to say he ever rebutted the fundamental good he saw in the Culture. If anything, the main issue with the Culture is why it refuses to Sublime and insists on staying on the material plane past the point where other Involved civilization go bye-bye. Perhaps it’s a fear of the unknown, of what comes next.
The Hydrogen Sonata is a rebuttal… of the civilization that has voted to Sublime/become immaterial/ascend to another plane of existence. But not of the Culture. That other civilization is corrupt and it’s whole society possibly based on a false religious text. So why does it think itself worthy of the sublime?
In fact the Culture’s displeasure with the shenanigans perpetrated by that other civilization is represented by the actions of my favorite ship ever, the Mistake Not…, whose full name is Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath.
Sounds like you could use this re-read to perhaps re-examine these books.
@@@@@ 26 The grinding edge happens when SC has to deal with less evolved civilizations
Now see here is a REAL problem I have with a build in Bias for this Utopian Society called the Culture. Just because a society isn’t like the Culture it is assumed to be “less evolved.”
Words mean things and although my communication skills really suck, that statement implies any culture that has not adopted the “anything goes, no morals, no right and wrong” level of the Culture is inferior and it is the duty of the Culture to insure they do evolve.
In my opinion the best thing that could happen to the humans of the Culture would be for the AI’s to realize what a total waste of resources they are and eliminate them. The funny thing is that most likely these ‘evolved’ humans would not even fight their own extinction.
@34: sdzald: “Just because a society isn’t like the Culture it is assumed to be “less evolved.”
This kinda sounds like you haven’t read the novels. It’s not assumed. It is. The Culture universe acknowledges levels of technology, one of which is space flight, all the way to control of very exotic tech, weapons, and energies. The Culture is classified as a Level 8 (I think). There are both less developed and more developed civilizations in the galaxy.
For example, in the novel Inversions, the society depicted is at a medieval level. They still engage in court intrigue, siege warfare and so on. No indication they are even aware of other planets or entities in space. That is quantifiably less evolved.
As the novels progress, the Culture encounters things even beyond their ken, like in Excession.
@@@@@ 35 IMO there is more to a culture then just its level of Tec. Besides who is giving these ratings? Yep the oh so perfect Culture.
Which culture is more evolved is a very subjective thing. I would argue that the Native American culture that the Europeans wrecked with their superior tec and numbers could be argued to be more evolved way of life.
Once again THE Culture deems itself the most evolved based on its own self biased understanding, not what is necessarily true. For the reader to come to the same conclusions only means they are agreeing and I am certainly not one of those readers.
@36. sdzald: One example that may help you is the novella where the Culture visits Earth during the 1970s. They essentially decide not to announce themselves as we’re not ready yet. As a planet we’re not evolved enough. Guess we’ll get to that in due course.
As to who decides, the community of other cultures do. It’s a consensus system, not self-bias. They could shout all they want about their level of civilization. Means squat if others don’t recognize it. The Culture is not the end-all-be-all of galactic existence. There are older, bigger small “c” cultures, and more ancient long-lived entities that go far beyond human life spans. It’s true that the AIs, the Minds, will likely outlast all the humanoids living within the Culture systems.
But machine life outlasting organic life is nothing new in SF. Many writers have travelled similar paths.
I just finished Consider Phlebas a week ago! I’m really looking forward to a reread and analysis. Please don’t go too heavily into spoilers for future novels in the series, though.
I’ve read about half of the Culture books, I think.
This in-order (re-)read sounds great!
I don’t think that humans are, in any way, “pets” of the Minds; while the Minds are obviously running things, they are not, in any manner interfering with how people live day-to-day: the Minds aren’t selectively breeding humans, exhibiting them in shows, etc, and the Minds do consider human agency and consent to be highly important. It’s probably more accurate to consider the Minds to be the sort of wise, moral aristocracy that’s never happened in human history.
Overall, I think that Banks’ Culture novels are indirectly examining the Culture and the flaws that it’s overcome by looking at the societies with which it’s interacting via Special Circumstances: the Randian/Libertarian Sichultian Enablement, which enshrined Veppers, the violent and militaristic Affront, where the males modified the gene lines of females to make sex and reproduction even more painful, the fanatically religious Idirans who wanted to acculturate or exterminate non-believers, the hierachical, albeit quasi-democratic Pavuleans, the government of which used terror and blackmail to suppress dissent.
Banks isn’t so much writing about what’s right with the Culture, but what’s wrong with current culture. After all, there are people living in a post-scarcity economy now. It’s just that they are a very small minority well protected by barriers of [largely] inherited wealth.
I was lucky enough to stumble upon Player of Games in a London bookshop in the late 90s. It was everything I wanted science fiction to be: smart, funny, and mind-bending–quick to make me realize that my assumptions were wrong. I picked up the rest of Banks’ Culture novels somewhat willy-nilly, enjoying Consider, Phlebas for the sly wink of a story it is. (I remember reading that Banks once described it as a ship-wrecked sailor story.) Use of Weapons is tough, and Against a Dark Background loses its narrative thread at various moments, and while I agree that Look to Windward is crystalline in its form and execution, my favorite remains Excession. (I re-read it and Player of Games regularly all on my own.)
Am I alone in believing that there are sly nods to the Culture in some of the non-culture novels? E.g. Feesum Enjin? Just curious. Delighted with the re-read.
@41,
I don’t remember any sort of Culture Easter eggs in The Algebraist, but I’d likely miss them unless I were actively searching.
The first draft of Consider Phlebas was written when Banks lived in London in the second half of 1982 during the period when The Wasp Factory was being rejected by publishers. Use of Weapons first draft was from c. 1974/5 and The Player of Games first draft from c. 1979. After The Wasp Factory, Walking on Glass and The Bridge were published Banks returned to his science fiction and reworked them but started with Consider Phlebas so that ended up the first published Culture novel in 1987.
The Hydrogen Sonata is really Bank’s own rebuttal of the socialist/liberal Culture.
I’d really like to see a link to any statement at any time by Banks himself saying something along these lines, but I doubt you’ll be able to find one.
Am I alone in believing that there are sly nods to the Culture in some of the non-culture novels? E.g. Feesum Enjin?
I think you’re confusing it with The Bridge – which, like Feersum Endjinn, has large parts written phonetically. The Bridge has mention of a “knife missile”.
the “anything goes, no morals, no right and wrong” level of the Culture
The Culture is definitely, explicitly not an “anything goes, no morals, no right or wrong” society. What’s moral and immoral is discussed at length by Culture citizens in every Culture novel.
I am tempted to assume that you are taking the view (alas, all too widespread in some countries) that “morality” is a concept which relates entirely and exclusively to the question of which body parts and/or neuroactive organic compounds consenting adults are allowed to stick in their own bodies or the bodies of other consenting adults.
@45. ajay: took me awhile to read back up the thread, since it wasn’t clear who you’re responding to, but you’re right. @Alan is esp. wrong about Hydrogen Sonata. Probably confusing the small “c” culture about to sublime, the Gzilt, which Banks does condemn for its hypocrisy, with the Culture itself, which tries hard to get at the truth.
At the risk of being redundant, I think that a) it’s fallacious to assume the Minds treat humans as pets; they don’t. Humans in the Culture are granted more autonomy than 99.99% of the humans or the equivalent in, for example, the Sichultian Enablement, at least half the Affront, most of the Pavuleans, any of the peoples conquered by the Idirans, most non-aristocrats in terrestrial human history, and many, if not most, employees in modern capitalist economies b) the Culture isn’t perfect; Banks regularly has its characters worrying about the morality of Special Circumstances, interfering with other cultures, or even the concept of war — a large portion of the Culture refused to have anything to do with defending itself against, I believe, the Idirans, so they simply packed up and left*. c) again, I think Banks is using the Culture as a contrast to cultures which are \ structured to promote inequality, e.g., the Sichultian Enablement or the Affront.
—-
* I can’t see any contemporary terrestrial culture tolerating this, especially given the sort of rhetoric that follows any criticism of any military action, no matter how ill-considered or immoral, ordered by a fairly long sequence of elected officials sitting in a non-rectangular office in a painted sandstone building. Since I don’t hear a lot of the noisy rhetoric from places where the elected or unelected heads of government sit in rectangular offices, I don’t know if that sort of rancidness exists in those places. I would expect so.
Not that you’re even remotely likely to run out of material, but if you ever needed a brief filler interlude, it could be interesting to cover Ben Aaronvicth’s 1996 New Adventures Doctor Who novel “The Also People“, in which the Doctor meets an extremely-thinly-veiled analog of the Culture (drones, AI ships, anarcho-socialism, and all). Sort of like fanfic, but Aaronvitch is of course a pretty good writer who wrote for the original series too, and I would say clearly gets the Culture. Manages to tell an interesting story with a mystery, political tension, leisure, and reactions of Earth humans with the Culture-analog. I’ve always been curious what Banks thought of it.
“Just how technologically advanced are they?” The Doctor frowned. “Let me put it this way: they have a non-aggression pact with the Time Lords.”
This will be an interesting series. I’ve always liked the Culture novels. My personal favorite was Excession because it seemed to have the best ship bits.
Yes, yes, yes!! Excession was the first Banks book I read and I fell completely in love with the Culture. But more than anything it was the AIs – the ships and their (little c) culture that fascinated me. I have a definite fondness for books that explore conscious artificial intelligences. Particularly when it is done well and complexly. Excession has ship Minds that are traitors which think they are saving the Culture and eventually have to deal with their own equivalent of mental illness. Minds that are – for all practical purposes – stuffy-by-the-book-types, who are offended when muscled out of the way by a secret cabal of “old-timers” who don’t play by the rules and don’t care. But all that transplanted into a clear different type of being, for lack of a better word. It’s wonderful.
I ranged between very disappointed and mildly disappointed with all the other Culture novels because none of them are quite as AI/Mind focused as Excession. But all of them are interesting and imaginative and some are wonderful in their own right. Some are just … not great novels, frankly – to diffuse and lacking clear plots or unified stories; but still … always interesting characters, Minds, drones, alients, and just good sf written by Banks: so worth it.
I haven’t found another book quite like Excession – anyone else?
Cheers, Thanks
Enjoyed these, looking forward to the final one…
@50. Adrian: Well, it’s been a year… so, likely not happening.
>Ben Aaronovich’s 1996 New Adventures Doctor Who novel “The Also People“
Thank you for the pointer.