This week, Mark, Kareen, Ekaterin, and Enrique visit the Vorkosigans’ District to look at possible new facilities for their butter bug enterprise. They also collect some rocks for Miles’s garden and some samples of Barrayaran native vegetation for Enrique, and have lunch with Tsipis. To his great dismay, Miles was excluded from this trip because there wasn’t room for him in the lightflyer. He seems to have taken a hand in the arrangements for lunch at the Count’s Residence in Hassadar. In other news, Mark and Kareen still aren’t having sex. They would both love to, but she doesn’t feel independent enough to flaunt Barrayar’s rules while living on the planet. She’s a very honest person—not the sort of person who feels comfortable leading a double life. Mark has led a double life before at several notable points in the past, and I don’t think he was comfortable with it either. He’s frustrated with Kareen’s decisions, but he keeps that to himself and respects her boundaries.
Mark also sort of respects Enrique’s efforts to rewrite the abstract of his thesis in sonnet form. This is the book that taught me that mucopolysaccharide is made of trochees (although you can use it in iambic meter if you put an odd number of syllables in front of it). Following an afternoon talking about plants and butter bug guts, Enrique is also harboring romantic longings for Ekaterin. I don’t know what it is about her—the conservative Vor mourning garb, her repeated announcement that she’s waiting out her mourning year, her diplomacy and quiet intelligence—she brings all the boys to the yard. This is why Vormoncrief has proposed to her father. In the opening of chapter eight, we learn about the Vorvane family’s reaction to this from Ekaterin’s sister-in-law, Rosalie, who has arrived in the capital to present Alexei’s proposal.
Rosalie reviews personal connections, financial standing, and career prospects before she gets down to brass tacks with the suitor’s name, so her presentation goes well until Ekaterin realizes that she’s not talking about Miles Vorkosigan. In fairness to the text, Ekaterin had some moments of ambivalence about the possibility that Miles sent the Baba. It brought the validity of her work on the garden into question, and raised concerns about falling back into another marriage trap. Alexei does not give rise to such ambivalence. Ekaterin has no interest in marrying him. At all. Rosalie presses his case by pointing to Ekaterin’s age (hardly relevant in these days of improved health care and assisted reproduction) and Nikki’s putative need for a father (I think his uncle might be an adequate male role model). Ekaterin gives herself away by admitting she thought Rosalie was talking about Miles, and the Profesora makes some revealing faces and suggests to that Ekaterin can do better than Vormoncrief. Rosalie offers to protect Ekaterin from “the mutie lord,” personally if her husband isn’t up to the task. Anti-mutant prejudice is absolutely not an effective appeal to Ekaterin, and it is certainly keeping Rosalie from noticing the writing on the wall. Ekaterin reflects on her feelings for Miles in the shower before going to work—she is far from indifferent to him. The question remaining about their relationship is not whether Ekaterin has sufficient interest to pursue Miles; She does. The question is the one Mark asked Tsipis at lunch in Hassadar—will Miles will be good for Ekaterin?
The opposite half of these two chapters deals with Lady Donna’s return from Beta Colony. Ivan was looking forward to this opportunity to revive their romance and restore his poor bruised ego. He’s been kept in the dark on the motion of impediment to Richars’s succession to the Vorrutyer’s District. Following Pierre’s death, Donna legged it for Beta Colony to get sex change surgery. Lady Donna is gone, long live Lord Dono. The late count died without an heir of the body, and Dono is his brother. This is a closer relationship that Richars claims as Pierre’s cousin. Dono’s reasons to object to Richars’s inheritance include suspicion that Richars has been involved in several crimes, although there has not been sufficient evidence to bring charges. Richars sexually assaulted Donna when she was twelve, and then drowned her puppy. No action was taken at the time, and Dono isn’t trying to press those charges now. It’s simply part of the case against Richars that is Dono’s to tell. Richars is a horrible person, and becoming Count of the Vorrutyer’s District would put more power in the hands of a horrible person until his death. This is one of the shortcomings of male primogeniture.
Dono’s plan to take the Countship for himself skirts around the problems of creating a clone or a son to inherit from Pierre. Dono is clearly an adult, and does not require a legal guardian. He would never put himself in Richars’s control. He has been involved in the work of managing the District for the last five years, so he’s familiar with ongoing projects. His resume is impeccable. The question is whether the Counts will accept him. Ivan, it turns out, has been lured along to witness the existence of Dono’s all-important male organ and to offer political advice. Ivan has long asserted that he is no one in Barrayaran politics, but he does kind of know some people. For example, he knows Gregor and how much Gregor hates being surprised. Ivan has a hard time wrapping his head around the situation, I think mostly because it’s so different from what he had in mind when he went to the shuttleport with a carefully selected flower arrangement, but he arranges a meeting with Gregor. Dono wants a public debate, a public vote, and his Emperor’s neutrality. He asserts that dealing with his case will force the counts to rationalize their traditional laws. Gregor agrees to stand out of Dono’s way and see what happens. Ivan agrees to take Dono to Miles’s dinner party as the very last favor he is going to do for Dono ever.
Ellen Cheeseman-Meyer teaches history and reads a lot.
Poor Ivan! I secretly hope that Byerly had a hidden camera to get the look on his face.
A bit of a pet peeve: Kareen has no intention of flaunting Barrayar’s rules regardless of how independent she feels. That would be showing them off. Rather, she’s not yet ready to flout them. This is a not-uncommon error that sticks in my craw all out of proportion with the severity of the offense.
Meanwhile, Ivan shows that he has both intelligence and sense: “Do not, if you value your chances, if you want this to be anything but a big, short joke, do not blindside Gregor.”
@2 Yeah….this is not the advice of anyone who could be called “Ivan, you idiot….” very often…
(Though, to be honest, you could call Ivan an idiot if you’re a close relative or family friend, because you know how he’s capable of so much more. We’ve all noticed that his non-relative commanding officers never call him that…)
@@@@@ 2
darn tootin’.
”I think his uncle might be an adequate male role model”
well, Uncle Vorthys, yes. Hugo and Vassily, no!
Mark is sensible- don’t walk down hills you don’t want to walk back up. Miles’ forward momentum, on the other hand, would take him right off the cliff.
@3 My headcanon is that Miles would lead Ivan into trouble and then either be standing at a safe distance or explain his own role while letting Ivan try and talk his way out. Ivan also had the freedom to be a normal idiot teen-aged boy where Miles and Gregor were more constrained.
Aanndd the fat’s in fire for sure….
@3: I don’t know how much Bujold was already thinking of Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance, but it’s clear that Ivan does some serious growing-up in the course of this book; I don’t think the Ivan of Cetaganda could have understood Miles’s closing advice (let alone acted on it). He’s been in Miles’s shadow for a long time (I wonder whether he is such a skirt-chaser because he’s looking for someone he can be superior to), but in this story he makes progress when he’s not playing games.
@0: I think different men are attracted to Ekaterin for different reasons; Miles knows the whole person, Enrique may be a little dazzled that someone of rank will be civil to him (notice his expectations of Barrayar getting reset in chapter 6), and Vormoncrief figures a widow with a son will be desperate for male support. Add to this the fact that she’s living in the sinful capital with much-older relatives who Vormoncrief et al figure aren’t keeping her on a short-enough leash and she may look like easy prey to their no-track minds.
Fielding isn’t on the list of dedicatees, but I wonder whether Sophie Weston’s inspecific discussion with her priggish guardian, and the way it goes south on finding the guardian is supporting Blifil instead of Jones, was on Bujold’s mind during chapter 7.
@6, @7
Yeah, having that freedom to be a normal boy, who can screw up and make mistakes explains a lot about Ivan’s AND Miles’ and Gregor’s behavior.
I think males in Western society are allowed to act more immaturely for a longer period than women. The immaturity is tolerated a lot more. But…eventually….a lot of people do manage to grow up. Being handed a responsible job and doing well with it is something that allows Ivan to grow up and be an adult (not to mention that being a young fool gets BORING after a while, particularly if there’s no one else to be a fool with….).
To be fair, Ivan started out (in The Warrior’s Apprentice) as kind of an idiot. You get a reputation for that sort of thing. I had quite a well earned dumb blonde reputation growing up myself, for good reason.
Some men are…easily attracted. Some men will go head over heels if they think a woman is giving them attention, some others will go head over heels if a woman doesn’t actively spit on him upon meeting him. I have run into such trouble from those dudes.
I love the Lord Dono plot. You go, sir. Though in retrospect the “don’t surprise Gregor” is a lot funnier after reading CVA. Ivan apparently needed to tell his “stepda” this fact….
Ekaterin wonders why the thought of never having physical contact with Miles makes her want to cry. Oh that girl is so far gone it ain’t funny. Not to mention the wholey unnecessary mental image of a nude Miles wrapped in sheets like a present to be unwrapped slowly….
Concerns about whether Miles would be good for Ekaterin are quite valid. If she does the doormat thing with him she will be bulldozed flat. It’ll be a disaster for them both.
Mark continues to set a magnificent example of how to do a relationship right. What a shame his big brother isn’t watching.
Other priceless moments:
Enrique looked like he had circulation.
Mark doesn’t like the image of himself in red and chartreuse, ‘Like a short traffic signal’ but thinks he’d look great in black and silver with Kareen all golden on his arm.
Ivan to By and Dono, ‘Blindside my cousin, please, I want to watch -“
I admire the ingenuity of Donna/Dono is seeking to claim an inheritance, but this whole plotline always left me feeling somewhat dejected. I was hoping that lady Donna would somehow be another iconoclastic revolutionary figure… Her gambit is very bold, and obviously very seriously considered, but… ultimately unsatisfying, imho.
I wonder if the Betan doctors had some concerns about the motives for her sex change which are purely political. He admits that he’d never even have considered it if it hadn’t been a matter of saving the district from Richars. Even more interesting is he expects no problems with having successful sex with women. Was Donna always bisexual? Is Olivia?
My headcanon is that young Ivan discovered he had a much smoother relationship with Miles once he started playing the dumb-but-healthy foil to Miles’ “smart kid.” He could get minimal punishment for some pretty outrageous stunts, so long as he allowed Miles to “persuade” him first. So Ivan in The Warrior’s Apprentice is the result of many years of positive reinforcement for acting stupid.
He does grow up a bit… but even in later books, Ivan seems sharper whenever Miles Vorkosigan and Alys Vorpatril are far, far away.
11: being Barrayar’s first public transsxual with a seat for life in the Council of Counts isn’t iconoclastic and revolutionary enough for you?
It would have been better if she didn’t have to alter her gender for it. There are no suggestions that she self-identified as a man, or was attracted to women her whole life. In all honesty, I was hoping for (whited out for spoilers)…. I was hoping for a big reveal where she gets installed/inducted as Lord Dono, then has a presto-chango reversal back to being a female and then challenge them to disenfranchise her after finding all her other qualifications eminently suitable.
That would have been a fine time for Gregor to step up and show how truly molded by Cordelia he actually was.
@15,
Give them time.
All known evidence indicates Donna was enthusiastically heterosexual. She might have had girlfriends too but apparently that never made the gossip circuit. As I said above he seems to expect no problems performing with a woman. According to Dono many Betans shift back and forth for the heck of it.
@12 – apparently, Betan doctors have some experience with patients who switch back and forth.
@15 – My reading of the decision was that the idea of Richars inheriting made being female intolerable.
@17 – I agree. Same sex relationships between women have often flown under the radar – Donna could have had just as many female partners as she did male ones. We hear about her love life mostly from heterosexual men.
I also think that Donna/Dono is too angry to be willing to fight from the ”lesser’ position. In my future Barrayar, Dono and Olivia have only female children. Dono helps one of them to be the first female Count.
To be clear about Mark’s respect for Kareen’s consent, this is something new to him, and something learned.
Pre-therapy, the only real sexual contact we see is his assault of the young clone child during “Mirror Dance” and a great deal of self-loathing, as well as reports of him being sexually assaulted by Galen.
Betan therapy has taught Mark how he should act about Kareen’s sexual reluctance, and he’s working very hard to practice all of the things his therapy has taught him.
But this isn’t inherent in Mark’s nature and understanding of sexuality. Which, if this was real, would be hopeful that men who were prone to ignore consent could be taught to respect it.
***
For Donna, the idea of Richars inheriting was intolerable, and in her anger and grief, she was willing to undergo a sex change to stop it.
That isn’t the same as being trans*, or her finding her own femininity intolerable.
We see her in her initial anger and determination. But I do wonder how it will work out long-term, when it is no longer an act fueled by rage, but the reality of daily life as a man.
And Donna/Dono’s sexual attraction to women is besides the point – one can be both trans* and sexually attracted to the gender one identifies as. Sexual orientation and gender identity are independent of each other. Given that Count Dono would be expected to marry a woman and father a legitimate heir, some romantic attraction to women would probably be helpful, although not essential in a world where the upper class use replicators.
Although I do wonder if Count Dono and his Countess would face an unusual amount of pressure for a natural conception and body-birth, to further prove Dono’s maleness.
i loved the scene where Ekaterin got her marriage proposal and how you could misinterpret the groom. Knowing her feelings for Miles here make the events after the dinner party more satisfying IMO.
IMO, the technology for biological and psychological manipulation that we see in the Vorkosigan novels strongly suggests that Betan doctors would be able to alter Lady Donna’s sexual orientation, as well as her anatomy, and what we know of Betan culture suggests that they’d probably be willing to do it if they think she is competent and her request is uncoerced.
I very much enjoyed the Lord Dono subplot, and it was fun to consider all the ripples that it would set off throughout Barrayar’s society. It certainly turned some long-cherished notions on their head.
Nikki’s putative need for a father (I think his uncle might be an adequate male role model)
Great-uncle, presumably, but yes, though I envision some conflict later over clothes, as Mother’s “natural style and taste” runs headlong into Great-uncle’s “baggy! for comfort! And make sure the pockets are big enough!”
I concur that we have no idea if Donna liked women Like That or not, but also we’re only hearing it from her male ex and they are on Barrayar, where that information is unlikely to be thrown around. (Have we heard of any lesbians on Barrayar, at all? Don’t think so.) I assume that Donna knew going in that s/he’d have to get it up for a lady, though (or get a replicator anyway for it), and being sexually repulsed by one wouldn’t help the cause go through. I just assumed s/he was flexible. And also after 40 years of sexism, I think being a guy would be very appealing. Hell, that attracts me. If I could be six foot tall and not have to worry (in general) about the things women have to worry about? I don’t consider myself a man at all inside, and I’m very femme, but I’D SO CONSIDER IT AT LEAST if growing a penis was an option.
I do wonder sometimes how “liberal” Gregor is (I mean, is it really all just “I have to go with what all the counts want or they will mutiny on me” or not?), though, since women are so behind the times still here.
@25 Jennifer – It’s worth noting, though, that Lord Dono does not turn to some old flame, the love story with Olivia is mostly in the background but seems intense. And almost on first sight.
@24 – I’m pretty sure that Ekatrin, as a busy working woman, feels the need for More Pockets.
Although Barrayan women’s styles, which seem to feature longish full skirts, have more pocket potential than most styles for women now. You can put quite large pockets into the side-seams of a full skirt, or wear a pocket under the skirt. And a bolero or vest can have smallish pockets on the inside.
Being a Vorkosigan, Ekatrin now has access to a level of fashion, and budget, that far exceeds what her uncle, as a university professor, enjoys. I suspect there will be gifts of tailored suits, ones custom designed for both comfort and pockets. I suspect half his problem finding clothes is that he has to buy off the rack, and therefore must deal with what is offered, rather than being able to order what he wants.
@@@@@ 25, as near as I can tell the traditional male only comitial succession is the main remaining glass ceiling. Even the military is changing and we see women in the professions and even in non hereditary positions of power. Barrayar is rolling right along.
@@@@@19, I love the idea of Count Dono naming a daughter his heir. He’ll probably succeed in pushing it through too.
@25 Gregor is known to favor the progressives in private. While he’s probably as liberal as Miles or Aral, I wouldn’t be surprised if a fast-penta interrogation revealed a certain fondness for anti-Vor radicalism.
Sex changes don’t make you six foot tall.
@30, I betcha Betan sex changes could. It’s just another body mod.
@@.-@, @24 – Definitely Great Uncle Vorthys! Young men have different uses for their clothes than old men, but I suspect that a preference for baggy clothes won’t be a hill that Ekaterin chooses to die on.
I know, that bit was wishful thinking :p
@31 – They are quite clear in the book that the Betan sex change didn’t change Donna/Dono’s height – but the reaction of Barrayans gave the impression that Dono was taller.
I bet you can get a height change at the same time.
If the Betans could control and change height, they’d have a great deal of control over the ability of bones to grow and form.
And that, in turn, would have affected Miles. If there was radically better bone growth treatment on Beta Colony, surely Aral and Cordelia would either have imported it, or arranged for Miles to stay with his grandmother to get treatment.
We hear about Miles getting education on Beta Colony. But no mention of medical evaluation or treatment, despite his complex medical history. Also no mention of Aral and Cordelia hiring Betan-trained physical therapists, or other medical professionals. They seem comfortable that Miles is getting the right care on Barrayar – Cordelia seems comfortable with Barrayan treatment for Miles, despite her own negative experience with Barrayan medical care.
Well, when Miles is talking about Mark back in Chapter One he says:
so the optiona are there. But remember that Mark had been sculptured down, so probably his reaction to more chirurgical body modifications is like „Hell NO” – if Killer wouldn’t react first.
Also I think Miles’ complex medical history is exactly the reason why any height-increasing treatments had been rejected by his parents. There is no standard treatment for solotoxin-antidote damaged children. Every medical procedure is in fact an experimental one and the goal is at first an ability to walk at all. Add a growth hormones treatment and you could end with a Miles few inches taller, but with even more brittle bones. Not a good idea.
IIRC Miles had gained some height thanks to Duronnas repair work after the needle grenade incident, but I think he would gladly give them back in exchange for no seizures.
@19, @28 – While I think Dono would be capable of advancing a daughter to a Countship, I suspect he might hesitate because of the way his own Countship was attained. “I am playing exactly by the old rules” Dono tells Gregor, and might feel honor-bound to carry out the implicit promise of siring a suitable (meaning male) heir. Plus the price of trying and failing to advance a female heir would be having the Vorrutyer Countship falling to one of Richars’ younger brothers or sons. We don’t know much about them, but what we do know doesn’t sound very nice and I’m not sure Dono would take the risk of any of Richars’ line inheriting the Countship he went to such pains to gain.
If I had to pick a candidate from the youth of Barrayar (about whom we know little at this point) to be its first female Count my money would be Helen Natalia Vorkosigan. The girl nicknamed “Hellion” seems much better suited, personality-wise, to the rough and tumble politics of the Council of Counts than her introspective brother Aral Alexander. I’m guessing the considerations there would be how would being disinherited affect Lord Alex, how would being thrust into such a groundbreaking and controversial role affect Helen, and would Count Helen be better for the District than Count Alex?
@38 Presumably Lord Dono could try pushing a female heir through the council at a good moment well before succession becomes an imminent problem. If he failed, he could still pick a suitable male heir or unsuitable (as far as the Counts are concerned) male heir who looks like a better alternative than a Countess.
If nothing else, he could always leave the Countship to Byerly. Though the Counts would have to really piss him off first.
(@20) Considering Dono’s cheerful description of how the relative amount of space and respect he gets increases the closer he gets to Barrayar, he’s likely to be pretty comfortable with the reality.
@25 (re how liberal Gregor is): I don’t think he has the slightest sympathy for the conservatives — given his personal history I’d expect him to have serious antipathy — but it’s clear that he has limited power; cf discussion about the finagling to get money for work on Komarr. We don’t see him personally horse-trading with counts, or even summoning them to his office — but there’s never been a book sufficiently focused on him that this wouldn’t be a distraction (assuming he does this himself, as (e.g.) the US President sometimes does, instead of having senior emissaries do it).
@27: how much does being a professor at the capital’s university not pay? IIRC there’s no specific pay for Imperial Auditors, but at least in the US someone in that position would be able to get bespoke clothing if they wanted; I suspect he’s just unworldly/humble enough not to think of it — or even to think it would be outright improper if someone suggested it.
@34 (re height) just so — we’re told later that Olivia is taller than Dono, but Ivan is so unused to Donna-in-command that he’s sure Dono is taller than Donna. And see above re personal space; I expect Barrayarans bias impression per gender more than “galactics”.
@40, I get the impression that Donna hasn’t been all that happy and successful as a woman. Dono seems to regard his new life as a man as a second chance to get it right.
At the age of 46, I also appreciate the fact that Donna/Dono is neatly sidestepping perimenopause. Don’t blame her in the least for that.
@40 CHip137 – We know that the Vorthys had stayed in the University slums despite expectations that they would move someplace more befitting a Lord Auditor. Presumably someplace like Vorkosigan house. So they must have been able to afford the move.
@38, I don’t see Miles and Ekaterin passing over their legal heir against his will.Or for that matter his twin urging it. Being tied down to the Countship might be the last thing she wants. A good first step to eliminating the males only clause might be for a count or two to appoint a female voting deputy – bet there are no laws against that.
@44 – Probably not, but from what little we’ve seen of Aral Alexander he seems at best ambivalent about becoming a Count someday. Part of that may be discomfort with the fact that he’s being groomed to replace his father when he dies, but I never get the sense (from the limited text available) that he has any real passion for being a Count. He’s been trained for it from birth and it’s certainly his expected destiny, but it’s possible somewhere in his teenage years he may decide to defy expectations.
@45
I just thought about how soon this was likely to become an issue and got a little sad.
I feel like there’s definitely a book there though. Lord Aral Vorkosigan suddenly becoming Count Vorkosigan when he’s unsure he ever wants to be Count, and most especially not now.
@46 That story could fit nicely in a convenient novella-sized package. [/innocent comment]
While there are definite problems with systems that make one child based on gender/birth order the chosen successor regardless of ability and/or interest, systems that allowed any child to inherit tended to have kids who all saw each other as rivals. Some even required the deaths of rival heirs.
Just saying all systems have their downsides.
I found the birth of the new son to William & Kate to be interesting in respect to this discussion. The new succession law of 2013 means that Princess Charlotte remains 4th in line to the throne instead of being bumped down the line by her brother’s birth. Charles, William, George, Charlotte, & unnamed baby boy. It seems that in this case of the Heir & the Spare, the girl gets to remain the Spare & her new younger brother is even more of a spare :)
I’m not sure that Aral Alexander doesn’t want to be a Count- we do know he doesn’t want a military career.
One of the things I really enjoy about this pair of chapters is that Bujold neatly flips the “trans panic” reaction on its head.
Ivan is made deeply uncomfortable by finding out that Donna is now Dono – especially, on two specific occasions: when Dono plants the bunch of flowers over his face, covering his beard, and Ivan sees Donna’s face in Dono’s body: and when Dono quite deliberately strips down in front of Ivan so that Ivan can bear witness that Dono has a penis. Both times of course Dono has his Armsman to hand to commit violence as required (and we know Donna was a fighter) and Byerley to mock if Ivan reacts: but Ivan’s reaction is – while transphobic – very civilised: the trope that a man strikes out and then throws up is nowhere seen or even considered.
Reading the discussion upthread about Donna not being trans: well, I doubt if she was by our 21st century Earth standards.
Right here and now, on this planet at this time, transitioning from the gender assigned at birth to the gender you feel is properly yours, is difficult, painful, and many steps are completely irreversible.
On Beta, as in John Varley’s Hotline stories where I first encountered the idea of a painless and reversible transition, anyone who wants can decide to be male or female just as they prefer and switch back and forth as many times as they wish/can afford.
I identify as cisgender. I am comfortable in the gender I was assigned at birth. BUT, if I could transition to find out what it’s like to be a gender I was not assigned at birth, yes, I would. Being comfortable in the gender I was assigned at birth doesn’t, to me, mean I wouldn’t be fascinated to try on other genders if that was an easy and straightforward – and reversible – option. And I’ve thought this ever since John Varley first suggested it to me in fiction, which is to say, about thirty years ago now.
I found it entirely plausible that while Donna may never have identified as trans – if Donna could have inherited in her assigned-at-birth-gender, she would – that she would nonetheless see becoming Dono both as a political solution to the intolerable problem of Richars inheriting the District, and as a fascinating opportunity to experience the gender she was not assigned as birth.
I also think Dono may find life easier given that Dono still has essentially the same body Donna has lived in all her previous life: the only difference is penis/balls and hormones. Dono isn;t dealing with the problems Varley’s characters have of a cloned body which is them as they would be if they had been born with a different chromosome set – different height, muscular build, etc.
The one thing I really don’t enjoy about this chapter is how much Ekaterin is enjoying being a working gardener and garden designer, creating her first professional assignment, because Miles is just about to take that all away from her. And yes, she is attracted to him and fascinated by the idea of his proposing marriage: but oh, Miles: Ekaterin was loving that garden so.
@39 …I now want Byerly to get the Vorrutyer countship, if for no other reason than the introduction of a blue Countess Vorrutyer. The Council of Counts would never know what hit ’em.
As someone else already mentioned, Ekaterin is attractive for a lot of reasons, many of which reflect the characters of her suitors better than her own attractions. Miles sees the woman who risked her life to thwart a gang of Komarran terrorists. Vormoncrief sees someone attractive who checks all the right biological and social boxes. Enrique sees a person who is kind to him and attempts to understand his all-precious research. (I suspect Martya will be a lot less kind, though possibly, for that reason, healthier for him and his bank balance.)
One of the things I love about the scene with Rosalie is what it implies about traditional female roles on Barrayar. Like a middle-class Alys Vorpatril, Rosalie Vorvayne acts as broker to her sister-in-law’s romantic prospects, surveying the social situation, presenting the realities of the proposal, and giving unwanted suitors the side-eye. (I never thought I’d end up comparing Duv Galeni to Alexi Vormoncrief, but man, this reread.) The fact that she’s willing and able to take on Lord Auditor Vorkosigan on the matter of Ekaterin suggests that women are far from disenfranchised on Barrayar. Their powers, in selected (genetic) spheres, are mighty.
I suspect half his problem finding clothes is that he has to buy off the rack, and therefore must deal with what is offered, rather than being able to order what he wants.
Not at all – it’s in the text that he drives his tailor close to a nervous breakdown by insisting on getting exactly the fit he wants, which is baggy, comfortable, many-pocketed, and utterly contrary to the tailor’s most dearly-held beliefs about tailoring…
Cordelia seems comfortable with Barrayan treatment for Miles, despite her own negative experience with Barrayan medical care.
Cordelia’s last experience with Betan medical care, though, was it being used as a threat, which she was prepared to use force to escape…
@52: I don’t want the scene of Rosalie confronting Miles to happen in A Civil Campaign – it wouldn’t fit the story at all – but as concept art, oh my – Rosalie walking into Vorkosigan House to give Miles a talking-to about his behaviour to Ekaterin, oh, someone should fanfic that.
@51 – While reversible, Betan gender transition is not painless, as we are told by Miles in an upcoming chapter. Miles’ own familiarity with how painful body-modifying medical procedures are, even with access Galactic-grade medical care, is one of the things that convince him how deadly serious Dono is about pursuing his claim.
@56, Exactly. Donna put herself through hell to become Dono, he is deadly serious.
@52, I have been saying all along that traditional gender roles give Barrayaran women genuine formal power though mainly in the area of family. They even seem to dominate certain professions, Baba of course but also the law. I suspect their economic power was enormous given men were supposed to be soldiers.
@57 I think there’s several references to women running the castle when all the men are off at war. Since the Vor are a military caste, I expect all the adult male Vor would be expected to go off and campaign. They couldn’t put a prole in charge so that leaves the Vor ladies.
@3: Haroche made an allusion to believing that Ivan was an idiot in Memory (Haroche remarks on how intelligent Alys is and then says something on the order of “One wonders how Lord Ivan…” and then trails off).
On a different note: Since the Council of Counts has 60 members turnover by death (or retirement) should take place pretty often (somewhere between once a year and once every other year). What’s new about the Vorbretten situation is that there’s an unexpected change that may result in a change in party for the Vorbretten district (in most cases, surely, “Count’s Choice” is someone with the same preferences as the Count).
@59 It’s noted that having two seats up for grabs between a conservative and progressive heir is fairly unusual. Both Vorbretten and Vorrutyer seats could change parties. No wonder the conservatives were willing to tolerate Ritchers.
@51 It is stated over and over that Body Mods are far from painless and probably come with an appreciable risk. Basically you have to be either dumb or very committed to have one.
Several comments from Dono imply that he regards this as a ‘second chance’ and he means to do it right this time using all the negative experience he gained as Donna.
@56: Unless there’s a chapter in Miles’ life Bujold’s not telling us about, Miles himself has no personal experience of whether Betan transition from male to female / female to male is painful or painless. We know it involves surgery, and surgical wounds aren’t absolutely painfree / instant healing even on Beta. But from other descriptions of surgery in galactic medicine, it seems clear that pain management and wound healing is way beyond what we have on 21st century Earth.
@61 Where exactly is it stated that the simple and routine body modification of transition between genders, performed (as it is on Beta) by competent and experienced medical personnel, carries any appreciable risk? Or is any more painful than any other instance of (relatively) minor surgery?
“Basically you have to be either dumb or very committed to have one.”
I think that pair of alternatives is rather insulting to the Betans who, as Dono mentions, were very helpful to him after he became male: who transit between genders several times in a lifetime.
I think that Donna / Dono made a huge and fearful transition, indeed, but I don’t think it had anything to do with the physical pain of surgery or any appreciable risks to his life or his future health.
I think it had to do with the huge risk – the leap in the dark that Donna made, to go to Beta and come back as Pierre’s brother, Count’s Blood and effectively Count’s Choice, and hope that he could manage to win in his case, fully aware that if he loses, Dono Vorrutyer will not be able to live in his District for fear of Richars’ vengeance, and will be a laughing-stock in Vorbarr Sultana for years afterward. But knowing that if he wins, Count Vorrutyer doesn’t have to care who laughs: he has a seat for life on the Council of Counts and despotic control over his District. Donna gave up being Donna to win the District and the Countship: I don’t think that should be minimised to mere physical pain or imagined risks. That was a huge emotional step and the cost of losing would be tremendous.
(Note that Miles’ experience of organ implantation surgery shouldn’t be considered on all fours with Donna’s/Dono’s: Miles was having life-support organs implanted after being shot in the chest, and had to be woken before the organs were fully functional. Donna/Dono had a routine medical procedure, removing/replacing organs which the human body does not depend on for life-support.)
@62 – Chapter 12, where Miles informs Richars “that sort of surgery is neither trivial nor painless“. He then muses internally that “If there was techno-torture on which Miles was an expert, it was modern medicine“, so Miles at least is convinced that there’s an equivalence between, for example, replacing bones with synthetics and removing one set of reproductive organs and connecting up a different type.
I’d say that pretty clearly indicates that what Donna underwent to become Dono doesn’t qualify as “minor surgery”, unless it’s in the sense that the only “minor” surgery is one that happens to someone else.
@63: I would find it understandable that Miles’s experience of modern medicine is hugely distorted into fear/pain. I think Miles’ response to Richars’ was a perfect shut-down, not a neutral assessment of Donna’s/Dono’s experience in Beta’s gender-change clinic (which, again, unless Miles experimented with gender-change when he was on Beta as an adolescent, he cannot possibly be described as an expert on gender-change surgery).
No surgery, not even minor surgery, is painless; no surgery involving bits taken out of a human body is “trivial”: I’d agree with Miles so far. I just don’t see that as a statement that Donna’s/Dono’s medical treatment on Beta was anything other than a routine and perfectly safe surgical/medical experience – which many people on Beta choose to repeat & reverse several times in their lifetime.
@60: Thanks. Good point regarding Richars’ appeal for his party.
@62, Why is it insulting to say Betans who trans between sexes are committed? You don’t transform your body unless it matters to you.
@64 – Miles is certainly an expert on surgeries involving removing organs and replacing them with others. Leaving aside his cryo-revival, which is in a class by itself since the damage Miles was recovering from was traumatic rather than surgically induced and much more extensive than any of Miles’ other surgeries, he’s had just about every bone in his body replaced with synthetics. I’m not sure why we shouldn’t consider, for example, replacing all of the arm bones with synthetics and re-attaching the appropriate muscles to be of a similar order of magnitude as surgically removing all of Donna’s reproductive organs and completely reconstructing the pelvic floor on a new layout. (Do you know how many muscle attachments there are to the uterus alone? Loss of core body strength is a big problem for women who get hysterectomies in the early 21st century, and while I’d expect advances have been made by Miles’ time it doesn’t seem like an inherently simpler problem than re-attaching a bicep to a radius, which involves fewer attachment points.) We know from the framing story of the Borders of Infinity collection that replacing Miles’ arm bones involved a lot of pain and bed rest. It’s a reasonable extrapolation from this (and Miles’ comments to Richars) that Donna’s transition to Dono was roughly similar.
@67: Well, clearly the only way we could be mostly certain of deciding between “which is worse”, would be to hear testimony from someone who had had both a hysterectomy and two broken legs (or two broken arms) and ask them which was the more disabling/painful.
I’ve never had a hysterectomy. But, I’ve talked to/heard from many people who have, and from what they say, no, a hysterectomy is not as painful or disabling as breaking even one bone in your arm or leg, let alone both legs or both arms.
And bear in mind what someone pointed out: with Miles, all his treatments are experimental surgery. Including having his arm and leg bones removed and replaced with synthetics.
Whereas Donna/Dono had routine treatment which is clearly not considered risky*, and which the analogy you yourself called up, having a hysterectomy, doesn’t appear from anecdata to be as crippling/painful as having two broken arms or two broken legs.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Miles to analogise from his experiences in surgery to assume it’s that painful for everyone: I do think it’s unreasonable if he’s assuming he’s an expert on Betan gender change surgery, but as far as I know, he isn’t.
(*I hypothesise this as Betan protective attitudes enshrined in law, q.v. Corderlia’s experience with psychotherapy, appear to be such that if there was an appreciable risk in changing gender I bet people would be allowed to do it once only and only if the risks of not changing gender were worse.)
Dono’s transformation was also a rush job which implies more discomfort. Having to present as authentically male in a few months means not only having the new parts finish growing in place but could also mean a much more aggressive hormone therapy. He may not have had time to heal between the removal surgery and the implantation surgery. It still seems like losing a knife fight while unconscious take a while to heal even with galactic tech.
Richars is someone from a culture where transformations like the one that Dono went through are not possible. It’s probably natural for him to assume that in a place where it’s possible, it’s also easy (and Richars, of course, wants to trivialize the issue, too). Miles has spent a lot of time on Beta, beginning when he was quite young, so he has reason to be aware that possible doesn’t mean easy. Indeed gender change may be well-known enough on Beta that any native (or near-native like Miles) Betan would be aware through common knowledge that gender-change is safe but still not entered into lightly.
I’m not sure we can conclude that Miles’ bone replacements are “experimental surgery”. They have to be commonplace enough (and standardized enough) that Mark’s synthetic bones are indistinguishable from Miles’ in Brothers in Arms. This implies a both standardized materials and standardized procedures. Also the bone replacement procedure is inherently painful even if the bones themselves are not broken, as Mark attests in Mirror Dance.
So I’m not sure broken bones are necessarily analogous to replacing bones for the comparison to be meaningful.
Also, the procedure that Donna undergoes to become Dono is a lot more comprehensive than a hysterectomy so I’m not sure that’s a valid basis of comparison. I only mentioned it because the attachment point issue seems relevant to a bone-replacement-to-gender-reassignment comparison. If replacing bone (as opposed to letting a broken bone heal in place) is a “stunningly painful” procedure it seems reasonable to conclude that surgically removing all primary and secondary sexual characteristics and grafting in new ones would be similar in terms of invasiveness and pain.
@71 : Miles remains (I think) the only human being alive whose bones were affected by the soltoxin antidote in gestation. What may be normal surgery on people with normal bones, is experimental surgery in his category-of-one. He has multiple other unique.unexpected reactions to medication, including fast-penta, suggesting that some surgical and medical drugs may not work on him either
I stand by the point that Miles’s assessment of modern medicine as “techno-torture” cannot be assumed to be typical experience of most: but it would be typically Miles to assume that it can.
Again, while we could debate to the ends of our lack of experience how painful it would be undergo this body mod, we have multiple internal proofs that on Beta it is a routine procedure and not regarded as risky: Dono was asked as a matter of routine if he wanted the clinic to retain his original organs to swap them back in again if he decided to come back, and swapping back and forth is something Betans do.
(It would also be fascinating if Miles had gender-transitioned on Beta twice as an adolescent and thus was speaking from experience, but I don’t really think that’s probable: though Miles doesn’t talk much about his time on Beta, I think that would have come up.)
I wonder what Ekaterin would have answered if Miles had sent the baba? She had just begun thinking of the implications for Her Garden when Rosalie named the suitor – would she, sober, have decided that the deception was forgivable?
@74: I think she’d have said Yes. I think she’s veering that way in the conversation.
I think the deception over the garden might still have angered her, but it would have been ameliorated by Miles’ using a means of proposing that ensured Ekaterin could think about it, say yes or no at leisure – and still carry on working on the garden, without necessarily saying one word to the suitor she’d rejected, if she decided to say no.
Looked at that way, maybe Miles should have tried sending a Baba…
(Would Rosalie have expected Ekaterin to say yes to the “mutie-lord”?)
@75 jcarnall – I think Rosalie’s doubts would have worked in Miles’s favor.
@73 Routine or low risk does not equal low pain. Pulling teeth is low risk and routine but still hurts.
I would point out that pain and a measure of risk don’t keep people from having cosmetic surgeries today. If you really want something you take the consequences.
@77: True – tooth-pulling may be a good enough analogy, between today’s medicine and Betan medicine in whatever-century. Not something you’d do casually, not painless, but the pain is manageable and it’s routine/low-risk. The key difference being that on Beta a pulled tooth can be replaced, good as new….
@74: Ooh, in the au where Miles sent the Baba, Rosalie trying to talk Ekaterin out of marrying the “mutie-lord” – that would be a conversation and a half. as Ekaterin, only half-convinced herself at the start, actually talks herself into it…
Regardless of how far medical science has advanced, the human body will remain the same, which will tell us something about the pain levels one can expect. The greater the cut/damage to parts of the body with nerve endings, the greater the pain.
The pain level from a hysterectomy has gone way down since the surgery started being done by laparoscopy. Tiny wounds, rather than the classic abdominal incision.
Replacing bones will always require major wounds, because you need to get the new bone in. So that will mean significant pain. Hopefully, pain management is better in the future. But I expect a lot of that will depend on where you are – Barrayar is clearly importing as much medical technology as it can, but being able to fix something major is a higher priority than getting the most sophisticated pain management. They can stun an area to numb and immobilize it, but not manage the pain while allowing mobility. Perhaps Beta Colony or Earth could do better, perhaps not.
***
Regarding getting treatment on Beta Colony – yes, Miles’s specific condition is unique, so no one has direct experience with it. But doctors on Barrayar are clearly struggling to figure out, from textbooks and professional journals, skills and treatments that are routinely practiced on Beta Colony and elsewhere. (e.g., they could not find anyone who had done a placental transfer procedure when Miles was born.)
If Beta Colony can restart the growth of an adult to add height, they clearly have a sophisticated and well-practiced understanding of the mechanisms of healthy bone growth. There will be experts who have treated a wide variety of bone growth conditions, and who could approach Miles’s case with expertise and understanding, where his Barrayan doctors were clearly struggling to learn the same concepts from books and articles.
How much of Miles’s treatment was “experimental” only in the sense of the doctors in Barrayar having to experiment to figure out how to implement treatments already developed elsewhere, and not knowing the things that experts elsewhere assume “everyone knows”?
**********************
Regarding Miles sending a baba – do parents sometimes say “no” without consulting their child? And would Ekaterin have even gotten Miles’s proposal-by-baba, or would her family have taken it upon themselves to reject the offensive proposal from a “mutant”? And not told her of it, to save her from the perceived insult?
@79:
In a little while, we’ll come to the bit of the story in which Ekaterin recognizes that Hugo and Vassily’s opposition to Miles may be a factor in her growing acceptance of the idea of marrying Miles.
Ekaterin’s thoughts when she believes it’s Miles who’s proposed, the fact that she even assumes it’s him rather than one of her other ‘suitors’ shows just how far gone she is on him.
DAMN Miles’ insecurities! He had this woman. She just needed time to work through her own set of issues and insecurities. He nearly destroyed his own chances by being underhanded and manipulative. I hope and trust he recognizes and internalizes this lesson.
@80, I’d say such a decision by parents on behalf of a young daughter living at home would be very likely. However, to give the Vorvanes what credit they deserve, Ekaterin seems to have been let to make her own decision and that decision respected in the case of both her proposals. I also think if Miles had decided to be honest and send a Baba he would have sent it to Ekaterin herself.
Actually that might not have been a bad move. Not an actual proposal perhaps but an open statement of interest along the lines of ‘I respect your desire for time but I feel you should know I have feelings for you. Please at least consider me when you are ready.’
NobleHunter @@@@@ 58,
“I think there’s several references to women running the castle when all the men are off at war. Since the Vor are a military caste, I expect all the adult male Vor would be expected to go off and campaign. They couldn’t put a prole in charge so that leaves the Vor ladies.”
Additionally, and I think this out and out perplexing, back in Barrayar, whey Aral et al were musing who would be a suitable regent for the minor Emperor Gregor, when Princess Kareen was suggested, the idea of a woman regent was not dismissed out of hand by virtue of her gender, but because that she (Kareen) lacked the appropriate toughness to stand up to the counts and generals.
Which interestingly suggests to me that there might be a precedent for a maternal regent over a minor emperor, which in turns suggests that maybe a dead count’s widow could be a regent for her minor son?
Ezar’s opinion of his daughter in law might have been mistaken judging by events but it wasn’t unreasonable of him to assume a young woman like Kareen might have problems controlling older and more experienced men. A middle aged empress or countess with a decade or two of political and social experience under her belt would be a very different matter.
@83, 84 Isn’t there a line in this book or CVA that the only people Pierre Le Sanguinaire was afraid of was Dorcha Vorbarra and Countess Vorrutyer? I would hesitate to suggest that she could not head a regency government for her children. I would hesitate long enough that they could reach their majority, in fact.
at the time I read this, there was a typo, a duplicate word: will Miles will be good for Ekaterin
@82: Not an actual proposal perhaps but an open statement of interest along the lines of ‘I respect your desire for time but I feel you should know I have feelings for you. Please at least consider me when you are ready.’ Have we seen anything suggesting that a baba can present such a tentative case? Present-day US semi-traditional Jewish matchmakers may have the liberty to be discreet introduction services (if Crossing Delancey is to be believed), but that’s a more-adapted culture and a different case; the little I can recall of babas is that they’re called in for final presentation (or at least negotiation, as we see Cordelia acting later). This is the first rereading I’ve been following; has anyone seen a different interpretation of the role in another book? (Miles & Ekaterin is beginning to feel like a less-comic version of Robin & Rose from Ruddigore.)
@87: The Baba is evidently (traditionally) the person by whom proposal is sent and either refused or accepted, among Vor.
We never see directly what the Baba does, but Alys Vorpatril, in going to bring the personal news of their daughter’s decision to marry Gregor to the Toscanes, is clearly acting as a Baba (she may even have specifically said that was her role, I can’t remember). In Gregor’s case, even if he had selected a perfectly conventional Vor maiden, he presumably wouldn’t have called up the Baba Network and just rented the next available Baba to carry the formal request for Vormaiden’s hand in marriage: he would still have asked Alys Vorpatril to do it, to be Baba.
(Presumably being a Baba is the kind of job thought suitable for a Vor widow: Alys Vorpatril demographically fits right in, though she doesn’t need to do it for a living.)
Ekaterin says, when Rosalie is wondering how to phrase the refusal, “That’s the Baba’s job”. I presume they will carry any appropriate kind of proposal, even a “Please tell me you’ll consider me as a suitor once your mourning year is over” for the appropriate fee.
Presumably some people just ask an elderly female relative to carry out the formal role of the Baba when everything has actually been settled between the couple already and the Baba just makes it official: and some people hire a professional Baba to be a negotiator between the families about dates, marriage settlements, and other things: and if you’re Gregor Vorbarra you ask your chief lady of protocol to be the Baba: and if you’re Miles Vorkosigan it never occurs to you to send a Baba at all because you’re convinced that unless you’re hustling her into it no Barrayaran woman would want you.
Oh damn Miles’ insecurities….
Consider also that Bujold is not an expert on genital reassignment surgeries, present or future. I’m not an expert either, but I have got an intimate interest in the matter and a number of first hand accounts from friends to supplement my research. Based on this, reasonable forecasts based on developing technologies, and specific descriptions of the nature of Dono’s transition, Miles is almost certainly exaggerating the physical hardships Dono went through, either for dramatic effect or because his own experiences coloured his assessment.
Routine or low risk does not equal low pain. Pulling teeth is low risk and routine but still hurts.
Quite. Also remember that Miles has a great deal more knowledge and experience of 28th-century medicine on both Beta and Barrayar than any of us will ever have; if he thinks some medical procedure is extremely painful, we should probably take his word for it.
@88 – The closest we get is the satirical/comedic rendering Miles does of serving as Baba between Baz and Elena at the end of The Warrior’s Apprentice. Obviously not a true representation of the process, but just as obviously hitting enough of the well-known cultural touchstones of what’s involved in sending the Baba to be funny to the Barrayarans involved.
@90 – We don’t have to rely solely on Miles’ word on this question. We’ve also got Mark’s assessment that the procedure is “stunningly painful”. As Miles’ non-poisoned clone with healthy bones that’s about as good a control group as you could hope for with such a small sample size.
@87, My guess is a Baba will deliver any message you hire her to but Miles doesn’t have to use a professional though I doubt he’d want to send Cordelia! The Countess’s area of expertise is straight talking couples who’ve gotten themselves into unnecessary difficulties. She has all the delicacy of a charging elephant and would probably try to straighten Ekaterin out and mortally offend her.
I don’t see how there can’t be serious pain involved in a series of major surgeries. Of course pain thresholds vary and Miles/Mark may have a low one. I think we can all agree that Dono’s interlude on Beta was at least seriously stressful.
@91:While, jokingly, I said we can’t know if Miles undertook gender change (twice) in his time on Beta, we do know Mark didn’t, so Mark also has no knowledge if gender change surgery on Beta is “stunningly painful”.
@92: Two hundred years ago, surgery consisted of lopping bits off a conscious patient who had – if lucky – consumed enough rum to be completely muzzy while the surgeon cut away with knives and saws. The advent of anaesthetics meant surgeons could undertake far longer and more complex operations than anyone could have imagined possible or plausible in 1818.
What we do know about gender change surgery on Beta in the time of Miles Vorkosigan: It’s regarded as routine, safe, and entirely possible to get done in a 30-day month: and Betans – who have, remember, a planetary government that is extremely safety-conscious to a paternalistic extent with regard to people voluntarily putting themselves at hazard – are able to switch back and forth multiple times in a lifetime.
That doesn’t mean trivial and it doesn’t mean painless, but it does mean, I suggest, that Donna/Dono’s primary trauma in changing gender wasn’t “medical techno torture”, but the mental experience of ceasing to be Donna and becoming Dono, giving up a life she had done and understood in order to achieve a goal she had no guarantee she would reach, where the cost of failure was seeing Richars acquire despotic power for life over the District Donna/Dono think of as their own. (Their here used as singular neuter pronoun.)
Actually, the concept of baba is always used to refer to someone hired to propose marriage and facilitate marriage negotiations. A marriage go-between.
You can hire someone to deliver any message you wish. But they are only being a baba when you have hired them to propose marriage.
I suspect that someone who works as a professional baba would avoid getting involved in other sorts of negotiations and messages. In particular, you’d want to avoid getting involved in the courting itself – your job is a defined one, at the point where someone is ready to propose, and get a definitive answer. Getting enmeshed in relationship-formation is a totally different skill-set, and one far more likely to lead to resentment and recriminations if things go badly.
we do know Mark didn’t, so Mark also has no knowledge if gender change surgery on Beta is “stunningly painful”.
Right. Similarly, I’ve never broken my leg so I can have no knowledge if a broken leg is painful. I have this uninformed belief that it might hurt a bit but really I’ve no way of knowing.
@92 Oh my guacamole, Cordelia as Miles’ baba. I can see it now…
—
Cordelia: I’ve come as a social-sexual ambassador for Lord Auditor Vorkosigan, who is seeking formally sanctioned familial relations.
Sasha Vorvayne: Pardon?
Cordelia: I’ve come as Baba on my son’s behalf.
Sasha Vorvayne: (faintly) … of course, Countess Vorkosigan…
—
Cordelia: Good day. I’m here as a representative of Lord Auditor Vorkosigan.
Hugo and Rosalie: What?!?!
Cordelia: As his Baba.
Hugo and Rosalie: (very relieved) Oh.
Rosalie: Wait, what?
Cordelia: My son wishes to make his honorable proposals to your sister Ekaterin. Barrayarran-style, hence this baba situation.
Hugo: Um, we are- Ekaterin is, um, very honored to have received a proposal from Lord… Auditor? Lord Auditor Vorkosigan. What does he propose?
Cordelia: Aside from marriage? Oh, well, there’s this term sheet. It was Mark’s idea and Miles decided it was better than the poem he’d started.
—
Ekaterin: Welcome, Countess Vorkosigan. Are you here to discuss the garden?
Cordelia: Ah, the garden. It’s very nice, you know.
Ekaterin: Thank you.
Cordelia: None of us are especially aesthetically inclined- family of soldiers, you know- but even Aral was impressed with its shape, particularly good for trench warfare, he says. We’d like to keep that kind of talent in the family.
Ekaterin: You mean as a staff gardener?
Cordelia: No, as Lady Vorkosigan. You can garden all you like, of course, we’ve got lots of district to terraform and improve- but mostly Miles wants to marry you. Something about you being the most useful hostage he’s ever encountered, and he should know, he’s seen so many. Did you really destroy a novel wormhole-collapsing device engineered by Komarran terrorists to strand Barrayar?
Ekaterin: Actually, I’m told it was defective- excuse me, did you say Miles wants to marry me?
Cordelia: Badly. He’s hyperactive, and you won’t have a quiet life, but he does love you and wants to give you everything he is, which is at least two people for the price of one. It’s almost a bargain, really. Though you may want to think over the politics before you agree to anything- I have absolute faith in your ability to deal with any threats, but I understand if you’d rather live a life without them.
Ekaterin: Threats…?
Cordelia: Well, for most people, “Heads will roll” is just a metaphor.
—
Cordelia: My son wishes to marry Ekaterin.
Professora Vorthys: Oh, my. I thought it might come to this.
Lord Auditor Vorthys: My pardon, Countess Vicerienne Vorkosigan, but which son…?
Cordelia: Miles. Not that Mark doesn’t admire Ekaterin for her merits, but Miles is the one that’s besotted.
Professora Vorthys: And has he mentioned this to Ekaterin, it are we still pretending it’s all about the garden?
Lord Auditor Vorthys: Though it does give her a real occupation, and something to think about other than the mess Tien left behind.
Cordelia: Well, that’s why I’m here. He said something about me being the most high powered baba on the planet.
@96: I love you. That is all.
@96: Thank you, that is delightful – and just the sort of things Cordelia would say in that situation!
@96: Thank You! That’s going to keep me smiling the rest of the day!
@96, Like I said, all the delicacy of a charging elephant
Though I suspect Cordelia and the Professora probably had a frank discussion of how to repair this relationship after the infamous Dinner Party.
Alert! Alert! New Vorkosigan novella!
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/16734418-the-flowers-of-vashnoi-bloom-in-may
@101 – I’m so excited!
Ekaterin! Gardening! Vashnoi!
Radioactives-concentrating butter bugs?
Just as a point of medical fact, while gender and orientation are separate, about 20% of people who get sexual alteration surgery/treatment change orientation afterwards. Nobody really knows why, but it might be a sociological effect, in which case it might be different for Barrayarans or Betans.
I’m coming at this way, way late in the game, admittedly, but it seems this is the right time to point out something I’ve noticed about Ivan: One of his most important jobs through the series is to be an evaluator and advisor regarding dealing with Gregor. If he decides to give you the benefit of his advice, he’s going to tell you what NOT to do (basically “don’t try to pull a fast one, Gregor will see right through you and you will not like the results”). Both Lord Dono and Ivan’s in-laws receive this benefit and heed it wisely, justifying Ivan’s trust.