Well, here we are. Rand and company have come to the end of their first adventure, and so have I. There are many more to come, of course, but for the moment, evil is beaten down and spring has come again to the world spun into being by the Wheel of Time. And yet, there is much loss and sadness too, and the future of our heroes, especially the boys, contains more questions than answers. This installment of Reading The Wheel of Time covers the final two chapters: 52 and 53.
Rand awakes on the top of the cliff, surprised that he can think again, and seems to be coming slowly back to himself. He realizes he is lying in a pile of greasy ashes that was once Aginor and scrambles backwards, only to nearly tumble off the edge of the precipice. He vomits, then edges backwards and rolls over on the grass, pulling the heron-marked blade from its sheath. He examines it, remembering the significance of the blade but also noting that it is only steel. Either it had been something else before, or it was another sword entirely that he wielded against the Dark One.
“My name,” he said after a while, “is Rand al’Thor.” More memory crashed back into his head like a lead ball, and he groaned. “The Dark One,” he whispered to himself. “The Dark One is dead.” There was no more need for caution. “Shai’tan is dead.” The world seemed to lurch. He shook in silent mirth until tears poured from his eyes. “Shai’tan is dead!” He laughed at the sky. Other memories. “Egwene!” That name meant something important.
Staggering to his feet, Rand walks back down the slope, weak, wavering, barely able to hold himself up. He can’t remember who Egwene is, only that she is important and he gains first speed, then stamina as he runs, until he crashes into the clearing where the oak that grew where the Green Man died stands, and finds a pretty girl who looks up at him when he calls for Egwene. Only then does he recognize her, and the rest of memory return.
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The Eye of the World
Rand goes to her, asking if she is alright, recognizing Nynaeve beside her and Moiraine lying on their folded cloaks, her own spread over her. When he touches Egwene’s face, he feels like she pulls away slightly, but she assures him that she’s unhurt and asks if he’s okay. Rand answers that with a little rest he will be “newmade,” and then checks in with the other women. Nynaeve tells him that only Moiraine was really hurt, but Moiraine insists it’s mostly just her pride, and while she looks worn, she seems alert and her gaze is strong. She explains that the seal around the Dark One’s prison must have weakened just enough to let Aginor and Balthamel, trapped nearest the surface, to escape, and that they are lucky that only two of them were freed.
Rand tells her that it doesn’t matter anymore, because they are both dead, and so is the Dark One, who he starts to name as Shai’tan before Moiraine cuts him off and tells him it would be best to continue to call him the Dark One, or at least Ba’alzamon. Rand doesn’t care, but as he starts to explain how the Dark One died he realizes what it means, that he, a man, wielded the One Power, and he can see in the women’s faces that they have realized it too. He reaches for Egwene again, and this time her pulling away is obvious, but the next moment she throws her arms around his neck and hugs him close, apologizing. Nynaeve tells him that he is still Rand al’Thor of the Two Rivers, but that he is also too dangerous now.
Moiraine demands that Rand tell her everything, and he finds himself leaving nothing out, crying as he talks about his mother, telling them about the sword of Light, cutting the black cord, and Ba’alzamon burning. Egwene hugs him tightly as he explains how it didn’t feel like it was really him performing those actions, but rather the Light just pulling him along. Moiraine tells him that she suspected this, although she wasn’t sure, because of the way that Rand resisted the bonding through her coin, and then more so because of Bela’s unflagging strength the night on Watch Hill.
“She could have outrun Mandarb, that night. I should have thought of who Bela carried. With Trollocs on our heels, a Draghkar overhead, and a Halfman the Light alone knew where, how you must have feared that Egwene would be left behind. You needed something more than you had ever needed anything before in your life, and you reached out to the one thing that could give it to you. Saidin.”
Rand asks if he might be okay, not go mad, if he never touches saidin again, and Moiraine says it might be possible, through a supreme effort of will, and that it would be easier if he had someone to teach him. She can’t, because saidin and saidar are opposites of each other, and it would be like a fish teaching a bird to swim. But Rand is stubborn enough, and his will might be strong enough.
Rand learns that the others went back into the cavern to see the Eye of the World. Now drained of the pool of saidin, the Eye now holds a pillar with steps leading up to it, and Lan took them to investigate, after Moiraine forbid anyone from looking for Rand for fear of disturbing him. Rand is horrified that they all know, but Moiraine explains that she only told Lan, and of course Egwene and Nynaeve.
Rand asks if he is to be gentled, to which Moiraine replies that he is still ta’veren, and that maybe the Pattern still needs him. Defensively, Rand replies with Ba’alzamon’s suggestion that Tar Valon means to use him as a tool, and that he refuses to be used in such a way. Moiraine tells him, harshly, that a tool is not demeaned by being used for its intended purpose, and that Rand is letting Ba’alzamon use him by allowing his lies and trickery to direct his path.
The others comes out of the cavern just then, Lan bandaged and walking stiffly, Loial carrying a large, heavy chest, Perrin a bundle of cloth, and Mat what looks like shards of pottery. They are glad to see Rand safe, and when Loial asks what happened to him, Rand lies and says he ran until he fell and hit his head. He tells them that he found ashes and burned bits of cloth, and that he thinks Aginor is dead, but he is surprised when everyone accepts the story.
They lay their burdens down before Moiraine and she looks them over carefully. First she fits together the pieces of “pottery” to reveal the symbol of the Aes Sedai, and when she gives Lan her knife to strike it, the blade snaps.
“Cuendillar,” Moiraine said. “Heartstone. No one has been able to make it since the Age of Legends, and even then it was made only for the greatest purpose. Once made, nothing can break it. Not the One Power itself wielded by the greatest Aes Sedai who ever lived aided by the most powerful sa’angreal ever made. Any power directed against heartstone only makes it stronger.”
“Then how . . . ?” Mat’s gesture with the piece he held took in the other bits on the ground.
“This was one of the seven seals on the Dark One’s prison,” Moiraine said.
Moiraine asks for the chest next, and inside it she finds a golden curved horn inlaid with silver script. She says it must be carried to Illian, and when Loial gasps, she hands it to him for him to read the inscription in the Old Tongue. Loial translates: “The grave is no bar to my call.”
Even Lan is shaken to realize that this is the Horn of Valere, made to call the all the heroes of the Ages back to the present to fight the Dark One. Loial puts it away carefully, and Moiraine begins to muse on the fact that the Eye of the World was made in anticipation of the world’s greatest need, but was that need the use they put it to, or if was it made instead to guard these treasures. Lastly, they unroll the cloth Perrin is carrying, revealing a white banner with a red and gold figure like a serpent on it, except the serpent has legs with gold-clawed feet and a golden mane. Moiriane tells them that it is the banner of the Dragon.
She rests for a while, telling them they must all leave early as the Blight has already begun encroaching upon their haven now that the Green Man is dead. Rand asks if it is finished, and she replies that they have done what they came here to do, and tells him to sleep, and dream of home.
The next morning they can see how much devastation the Blight has brought to the place; leaves fallen and most of the flowers gone, only a few clinging to the trunk of the Green Man’s tree as it stands valiantly against the corruption. But it too is failing, the birds and butterflies gone, and everyone is somber as they mount up, Moiraine carefully secured in a litter Lan has built.
But Loial refuses to leave the tree that way, saying that it is not right that his Treebrother should fall to the Blight. He begins to sing to the tree, a beautiful song like the earth itself singing, though Rand cannot tell if it has words or not. It seems to last only a few moments but actually lasts much longer, and when Loial is finished the trees leaves are thick and green again, the oak standing strong, and the flowers growing at its trunk are bright and vibrant. He tells the others that he could not have done it if something of the Green Man was not still there, but now this little clearing will not sink into the Blight with the rest.
They don’t have to fight the Blight on the way out as the did on the way in, it is still, almost as if it is cowering away from them. Mat asks about it as they make camp, while Moiraine has Egwene and Nynaeve help her set the wards, but Lan will only explain that they struck a great blow upon the Dark One. When they reach the edges of the Blight they find the unblemished trees and foliage suddenly in the full bloom of spring, as if racing to make up for the too-long winter. When they reach the tower they hear news that there was victory at Tarwin’s Gap, and the men are amazed and laughing in the springtime air. Then they come to Fal Dara, where soldiers are wearing flowers in their hair and rejoicing at the victory, and only Ingtar, who was an hour too late to participate in the battle, isn’t in high spirits.
On Moiraine’s command they are brought immediately to Lord Agelmar. There, she is helped into a chair as she asks him about the victory in Tarwin’s Gap. Agelmar is troubled, explaining how some believed that the Light itself, or perhaps the Creator, fought in the Gap, burying the Trolloc hordes under earth, but that Agelmar himself saw a man, and what that man did must not be. Moiraine replies only that the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and asks after Padan Fain, who is still imprisoned on her orders. She explains that the Green Man is dead, though they managed to win, and suggests that The Last Battle has yet to be fought.
Then she shows him the Horn of Valere, and Agelmar is eager to use it, but she tells him sharply that it must be taken to Illian, and orders him to put together a company of men to take it. Agelmar agrees, though with visible distress.
A week later, Rand and Lan are practicing swordplay at the top of a tower, Rand holding the void as he fights. Lan tells him that he is improving, but not to push it so hard. He can’t become a blademaster in a few weeks. Rand replies that he doesn’t want to be a blademaster, only to make his father proud of him, and reiterates that he is leaving soon. Lan doesn’t argue, just leaves after catching sight of Egwene.
When she asks, Rand admits that he’s planning to go away, somewhere. Egwene explains that she, Nynaeve, Mat, and Perrin are going to Tar Valon. Egwene and Nynaeve to be trained, Mat to be healed from his connection to the dagger, and Perrin just to see the great city on his way back to the Two Rivers. She asks him to come, but Rand points out harshly that the Aes Sedai would just find out what he is and gentle him. Egwene reminds him that Moiraine said he would be okay if he didn’t touch the True Source again and Rand agrees that he never will, while secretly thinking that he never meant to touch it any of the other times he did, and tells Egwene again that he has to go away. Not home, just away.
In Agelmar’s private garden, under a thick bower dotted with white blossoms, Moiraine shifted on her bedchair. The fragments of the seal lay on her lap, and the small gem she sometimes wore in her hair spun and glittered on its gold chain from the ends of her fingers. The faint blue glow faded from the stone, and a smile touched her lips. It had no power in itself, the stone, but the first use she had ever learned of the One Power, as a girl, in the Royal Palace in Cairhien, was using the stone to listen to people when they thought they were too far off to be overheard.
“The Prophecies will be fulfilled,” the Aes Sedai whispered. “The Dragon is Reborn.”
—
The Green Man’s death in last week’s chapters really broke my heart, and I came to the Read this week thinking about duty and the things that we undertake for the sake of causes bigger than ourselves. It is a common theme in epic fantasy, because any great war against evil entails a good deal of sacrifice. From Lan clearly loving Nynaeve but not being able to commit to her because of his duty; to Moraine, who chose the path to fight against the Dark One long ago; to Rand and the Two Rivers folk whose ta’veren status or connection to ta’veren leads them to a destiny that they cannot deny, so many people in this story find themselves constrained by duty and the need to sacrifice for the greater good, and this is only in book one. Surely there is more to come. But within all these important destinies and threads coming together, there is the Green Man, who by his own admission was never intended for a duty like guarding the Eye of the World, and who accepted the charge only because there was no one else to do so. And for the rest of his life he carried that charge, just because he was the only one who could. It’s sad, but also beautiful, and it made me feel a lot better when Loial’s song ensured that the oak would survive. In nature, there is no death without rebirth, after all. The Green Man lives on.
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The Ruin of Kings
Meanwhile, Rand knows he can channel and believes he single-handedly killed the Dark One, but he doesn’t realize he’s the Dragon? That seems odd to me, somehow. I mean, isn’t the whole point that the Dragon is the Champion of the Light against the Dark One? He’s got to be the only person who can destroy Ba’alzamon.
In the post and the comments last week, I talked about trying to understand how the One Power and channeling actually work, and I think it’s worth noting, before I get too harsh on his reasoning skills, that neither Rand nor I understand much about it. But he seems so convinced that Ba’alzamon is dead and I have to wonder why he’s so confident. I know he saw Ba’alzamon burning, but it’s hard to believe that the human-like form was really all of the Dark One. I could see it as a piece, certainly, or maybe a projection of his power. The fact that there was that dark cord running out from him the way the Eye of the World’s light cord ran to Rand suggests that Ba’alzamon was drawing from some kind of source as well, which I don’t suspect the real, whole Dark One would do. I think Moiraine knows better, too.
The most interesting question of all for the end of this series is the question of the true purpose of the Eye of the World. Moiraine raises it herself, wondering if the pool of saidin was meant to be used or merely to protect the artifacts hidden in it. Speaking of protection, why is it that they would be protecting a broken seal? Unless it was super necessary to hide the fact that it was broken for some reason? Maybe to keep people from panicking? Or Darkfriends from getting too worked up and confident? But then, I don’t actually know how the seals work. It’s possible that they are supposed to be somewhere specific, actually clamping down the Dark One’s prison, but it’s also possible that this is a more metaphysical situation, where their physical location is not important. And if that’s the case, maybe the seal was deliberately hidden in the Eye to keep anyone from tampering with it.
Obviously it is supposed to be unbreakable, but something did break it and you can imagine that the Aes Sedai who made the Eye during the Breaking knew that nothing, not even cuendillar, can be one hundred percent foolproof. It’s even possible that Aginor broke the seal by pulling the saidin from the Eye, which would mean that Rand also had a hand in that. Was that Ba’alzamon’s plan all along? If he or one of his followers discovered the seal was in the Eye somehow, it would make sense of why they were seeking it, something that hasn’t been otherwise explained, as far as I can see. As powerful as it was said to be, it seems unlikely that Ba’alzamon would move on the Eye without having at least some idea of what he could do with it once he found it.
The inability to trust anyone has been an ongoing theme in this book, and it feels like first Nynaeve’s experience, then Perrin’s, have led us up a ladder to the even more dramatic struggle that Rand will now have to face coming to terms with his abilities and what people will think if they find out, now that his channeling carries the danger of the taint’s madness. Although he hasn’t yet realized that he is the Dragon Reborn, he knows from Moiraine’s hints that he isn’t just a channeler but a powerful one, and that will certainly haunt him in the next book. He’s not only worried about what will happen to him if the wrong people find out about his abilities, but he’s also worried about what he might do to them, if he does go mad from the taint. (I assume in one of these books they’re going to fix the taint, because it’d be hard—although interesting—to have a 14-book series in which your most powerful hero can never use his abilities. Or maybe there are a bunch more secret pools of saidin out there, who knows.)
And then there is Egwene. Although we the readers know it’s probably Rand’s destiny as the Dragon that will keep them apart, no doubt Rand is remembering Min’s words and thinking that it is the danger of madness that means he can never be with Egwene, or anyone, for that matter. How lonely he must be feeling, and even Moiraine, the one person who might have useful information, seems to be avoiding him. The narration doesn’t get into it very much, but there is something in the tone that makes me feel that loneliness too.
“Not home.” Someplace where there aren’t any people to hurt if I can’t stop myself. Somewhere alone. Suddenly it felt as cold as snow on the balcony. “I’m going away, but not home.” Egwene, Egwene, why did you have to be one of those . . . ? He put his arms around her, and whispered into her hair. “Not ever home.”
And yet he keeps learning to use the sword, to keep Tam close to him. I think there is a beautiful symbolism in Rand’s decision that as long as he carries it, he can call himself Tam’s son, even though he seems to have accepted that biologically he is not. I believe family is what you make, not just what ties you by blood, and it’s nice to see Rand embracing that.
I hope we get to spend some time with Egwene’s POV in the next book. I find her charming, in a Hermione Granger sort of way, a little sharp with people who aren’t as quick as her, but she has a warmth that attracts people. When Moiraine mentioned how Rand channeled for the first time to help Bela, needing to save Egwene more than he had needed anything in his life, the phrasing suddenly reminded me of how Nynaeve also channeled for the first time because she was frightened for Egwene’s life. In the ensemble Egwene hasn’t had as much to do yet, and I’d like to spend more time with her and learn more about what makes her so special to the people around her.
I was actually expecting Mat’s dagger problem to come up again before the end. The suggestion that Aginor and Balthamel were “led” by Mat to the Eye could suggest that they followed the dagger’s corruption, but perhaps it was because he picked up the statue of himself in the dream that they were able to form such a connection. I actually think that is the more likely explanation. I wonder if it’ll be easy to get him to Tar Valon in the next book and get him fixed up quickly, or if another series of unexpected events sidetrack our heroes and leave that problem unsolved. Possibly-Mordeth-Padan Fain is still down there in the dungeons, too, and you know he’s too slippery to stay there.
All in all, there are a lot of loose ends left in this book; it definitely feels like a novel that was written with the knowledge that there would be others, which means on it’s own the ending is a bit unsatisfying. But it’s also immensely satisfying because I am just chomping at the bit to get on to the next book. And I am sure you all are too.
And can I just say, I feel so lucky to have had the opportunity to share this book with all of you who love it so much. It has been quite the discovery, and I am very excited to keep moving forward and seeing what other wonderful adventures and complex world building The Wheel of Time has to offer. Stay tuned for The Great Hunt, coming soon!
Sylas K Barrett would pick a favorite character, but he loves protector characters the most and that’s almost everyone in The Eye of the World.
Sylas, as usual, your comments are spot-on. Particularly your ruminations on the nature of Ba’alzamon. But I can say no more. As far as Egwene is concerned, you can put me in the column of the Egwene haters. In my opininion, she started out as the least likable character and only went downhill from there. So I completely agree with your wondering what makes her so special but for very different reasons!
Nice call on Matt possibly revealing himself to the Forsaken by picking up his figure in the Dream. Never thought of that!
Here was my favorite part of this post:
“I think there is a beautiful symbolism in Rand’s decision that as long as he carries it, he can call himself Tam’s son, even though he seems to have accepted that biologically he is not. I believe family is what you make, not just what ties you by blood, and it’s nice to see Rand embracing that.”
As an adoptee, I couldn’t agree with you more.
In Rand’s defense for not realizing he is the Dragon, he’s a 16-17 year old boy from a rural town who just fought two of the 13 worst people in the history of his world and believes he just killed the devil of his world with an “evil” power that he has been raised to fear and the use of which is expected to drive him mad. He’s probably in shock and his reasoning skills aren’t working at optimal levels.
Ahh early Egwene so much potential. // Too bad she turns out to be the WORST main character. Head strong and arrogant with no warmness or loyalty left for her friends at the end. Power ruined her as a character. // Interesting rumination on the question of why everyone likes her so much. // Personally I never understood it. I was very happy she died. Some main character needed to die to give the ending gravitas. It made sense for it to be her. There was no happily ever after for her. Even if Gawyn had lived she couldn’t be happy it just wasn’t in her nature.//
Rand is in denial to the point of delusion but who can blame him? Being a man who can channel is a nightmare in this world. Moiraine is lying like a rug and handing out false hope like candy but I can’t blame her this time, she’s got a terrified teenager on her hands The last thing Rand needs at this point is more pressure.
I am not fond of Eye of the World, it never really captured my interest and I found the climactic battle tedious, which is not at all how one is supposed to feel about a confrontation between good and evil. I did however want to know what happened next so on to The Great Hunt!
@4 She’s definitely not lying, LOL. Spoon feeding him knowledge in amounts he can handle sure. Speculating about stuff she doesn’t know definitively, of course. But definitely not lying. She probably wouldn’t be able to tell most male channelers these things but, as she believes he is the Dragon reborn, she most certainly has to believe that there is some way for him to avoid madness.
Of course, I forgot about the oaths. She’s just decieving him, not lying
Ah yes, the worthless, self-defeating Three Oaths. If you need to swear an oath not to lie for people to trust you, that ship has already sailed.
This is early Robert Jordan. Like really early. He didn’t have everything mapped out. Later on in the series, stuff tends to contradict or overlook stuff in Eye of the World. Channeling and the mechanics behind it become much, much more detailed later in the series. This book had kind of a mythical quality to it, but later books it’s much more clinical.
If you need to swear an oath not to lie for people to trust you, that ship has already sailed.
@7 – Remember that practice was instituted immediately after the Breaking as a way to maintain the trust of the non-channeling population after they had just, you know, broke the damn world. //And also it was apparently done under the direct influence of Ishamael.//
The 3 Oaths were anything but worthless. Of course people had no trust for Aes Sedai. They had just gone mad and ripped the world apart. Anyone not connected to the Power would have known no more than that. The remaining Aes Sedai had to find some way to begin mending bridges with the survivors of the Breaking and the Oaths gave them something people could hold on to as a way to begin some sort of relationship, lest they be completely wiped out of society. It was the following 3,000 years that shaped the way in which society views the Tower and Aes Sedai in general that we see in our setting. And that is neither the fault of, nor does it change the necessity of the actions of, the ancient Aes Sedai who put them in place.
Sylas, Its worth noting that I always assumed that the seal wasn’t placed into the eye in pieces but it broke due to passage of time and nature of what it was put in place to seal away.
I don’t think this counts as a spoiler but if anyone else disagrees let me know and i’ll edit my comment.
I wonder if Robert Jordan had called Egwene a Tav’eren too she would still get all the hate.
The Dragon is not quite as hated as the Dark One, but it’s probably not too far off. The “dragon’s fang” (symbol for the male half of the power) is intended as a curse when drawn, after all. He’s a hugely tainted figure in history, whose actions Broke the World and caused all the male channelers to go insane and destroy what wasn’t already demolished from the War of the Power. And then he murdered his entire family. Sure, it was done in an effort to save the world from the Dark One and he was the greatest general–but these actions get a bit overshadowed by the devastation and total societal breakdown.
So when you’re told you’re the Dragon Reborn (and worse, have to confront the fact that you can channel–and are therefore inevitably going to go utterly insane and destructive) as a young man…desperate, irrational denial is perhaps a bit more understandable a reaction.
@10. Bah. First of all, // the Three Oaths were inspired by Ishamael and were one of his successes.//
Second, consider the following: // Wise Ones ; honored and respected in their culture. No Oaths. Windfinders: honored and respected in their culture. No Oaths. The Kin: honored and respected in their culture. No Oaths. Plus all live hundreds of years longer than the Aes Sedai who have no clue that their “Oath Rod” was a binder for criminals in the Age of Legends. //
Finally, it was only the males who ripped the world apart. And that wasn’t a secret.
Sylas – Nice summary of the wrap up to EOTW. Misc thoughts:
I vote we pass on any more Egwene commentary, as it is inherently spoilery. Let’s let Sylas make his own judgments.
Agree – nice catch on the sword-Tam connections.
I assumed it was Mat’s knife that drew the Forsaken, rather than the dream, but all is possible under the light.
Agree with others – RJ hadn’t figured out channelling rules at this early point in the story.
I liked the Moiraine tease – that she grew up in the royal palace in Carhien.
I really think we need to post the ISAM summary of EOTW, albeit with a couple of redactions that would delete jokes that reference future books. Do all agree? They are hilarious and Sylas would enjoy them. (I’ll be on vacation and can’t redact them myself but I re-read them last week and couldn’t stop chuckling.)
@13 – //The Kin’s ability to channel was a secret from everyone except the Aes Sedai. The Aiel and Sea Folk cultures did not exist at the time of the Breaking, or for about a thousand years thereafter. That’s why their channelers ended up as respected members of their societies.//
When an oath to speak the truth gets you a reputation for twisted speech and deception it’s not working as intended. The idea of placing limits on powerful channelers was a good one, but it doesn’t seem to have helped the AS reputation as much as you’d expect.
@13 – No, it was no secret that male AES SEDAI broke the world. But, how much difference do you suppose simple folk who did not consort with them understood about those men and the other people who could work such miracles? The reputation of ALL Aes Sedai was destroyed, just no to the same degree.
// right BAH at you!
Wise Ones – desperate to lead a culture that was born out of having their way of life utterly destroyed, “sentenced” to live out their lives in a deadly wasteland and have no contact with anyone not sort of already adhering to their beliefs. Also, the descendants of people who revered Aes Sedai.
Windfinders – leaders in a society that isolates itself from EVERYONE else the best they can.
Kin – not really a culture. They can all touch the Source, why would they have trust issues amongst themselves? And again, all members revere Aes Sedai as near demi-gods.
These are obviously special cases that fall outside the idea of a society of people TRYING to put themselves forward as leaders and councilors for the world en masse.//
@@@@@ 15. // Still doesn’t answer the point that the Oaths were Ishy’s idea, and subtracted centuries from the Aes Sedai’s lives, making it more difficult for knowledge to be retained. //
@@@@@ 17. See my reply to olethros6.
@13 // Consider Seachan (pre- and post- Consolidation) and Shara. The Land of Madmen also presents a problem. The Aiel and Sea Folk also had the opportunity to create new places for women who could channel as they rebuilt their societies basically from scratch. The Oaths might have been Ishy’s idea but there was a reason it worked. //
@16 The AS needed better PR.
@20, Totally. Unfortunately good PR doesn’t seem to have been a priority with the AS, they preferred being seen as fearsome and unhuman.
@21 True…but // Not by choice… we know that channeling dehumanizes the channeler… even Nynaeve… eventually… to remove their feelings is the only way to channel… to tamp down the euphoria that they feel while channeling to not enjoy it too much… and the giant separation in power, authority, and life-span that the channelers have that the common rabble don’t. //
In addition to what has been already pointed out regarding why Rand does not realise he is the Dragon Reborn, we should remember that he comes from a small village, and he has only heard approximate and vague wordings of the Prophecies. The Dragon is said to be bound to bring another Breaking, after all, and that is not something you’d want to think you’re capable of! So he won’t understand (and believe) until he is forced to.
Question about something brought up here: //How do we know Ishy was behind the Three Oaths? Was that in a book or revealed by RJ?//
Considering the debate that was had many posts ago about whether or not Egwene was Hermione-like, it gave me happiness to see that reference come up here.
It’s a structural feature of all fantasy coming of age stories to somehow remove the hero’s support systems. Gandalf, Dumbledore, and Zed can’t be the ones to save the day at the end. You can already see it working here.
I think this is a perfect time for the Indiana Jones question. What would have happened if our heroes had not been there? The villains would not have found the Eye of the World. The Two Rivers would not have been attacked. But on the other hand, there’s a strong impression that the forces of light would have fallen at Tarwin’s Gap. Any other good they did in this story? (Not counting future books.)
@25 Well there are two dead Forsaken that wouldn’t otherwise be dead ……// (you said don’t take future books into account so don’t come back at me with the impermanence of death )//
@24 IIRC // it was from a Forsaken POV scene where one of the Forsaken (Semirhage?) was ridiculing the current Aes Sedai for binding themselves like criminals. //
@8: Jordan used a tight 3rd limited viewpoint in this series so the reader only knows what the POV knows about things (such as channeling the power).
In this book I’d say 90% or so are POVs from Rand with the other 10% from other Two Rivers folk (except for Moiraine’s short bit at the end).
In later books we’ll learn more about channeling the power in the same pace as our POVs learn about it. // Example: We don’t see the glow around people channeling until the girls/women learns it themselves. //
That’s a clue right that Rand should have picked up on….
@9:
I don’t think the Oaths were sworn until after the Trolloc Wars. But I could be misremembering.
@29:
He was already disoriented. That’s didn’t make him disoriented. And disoriented people don’t think clearly, or remember things, or even experience the world in a rational manner.
If you think about it from Rand’s point of view, all he has done the entire story is run away and try to escape whatever is chasing him. Talk about a reluctant hero, he doesn’t even have control of his own power, but was used pretty much against his will to kill an entire army and what he believes is the dark one himself. He is hoping it is all over, but realizes he has this power that he can’t control, that will drive him mad, and possibly kill anyone around him.
His only possible rational thought is that he does not want to be used anymore and doesn’t want to hurt those he loves. And of course Moraine does not help him by telling him that she cannot help or teach him. Her only offer is to take him to Tar Valon so that he can be controlled and used as a tool. Are there really people who complain that all Rand wants to do is run away by himself?
@14 ISAM’s stuff while rib breakingly funny needs to be held off until he has read deeper into the series. But at some point we need to get Sylas’s reaction to them because they’re a near perfect spoof of WOT.
Congrats on finishing EotW Sylas, I really enjoyed it. I never commented much (I’m prone to accidental spoilers) but never missed a week either. Can’t wait to see what you think of the next books and IMO the second best in the series
Great ending post, Sylas! I agree that Egwene stuff gets really spoilery, and she is one of the most polarizing characters in the series, but don’t be intimidated by all the hate. Many of us love her despite her flaws. I can’ t wait to see what you think of her throughout the series.
I also think we have to remember that Rand doesn’t want to be the Dragon and doesn’t see him as a champion of the Light, but as a monster. I also personally think he does realize on some level that he is the Dragon but is denying it, hoping if he does it will not be real (similar to the way he denies the Dark One to prevent him having power over Rand). This will be a theme in the next bit of the series, as you have surely picked up on.
Thanks so much for this series. I wholeheartedly enjoyed it and am saddened that it is over. I have that same bittersweet feeling I get when I finish a good book; sad that it’s over but happy for the experience.
Very much looking forward to The Great Hunt.
Thanks for another great read, Sylas. As others have pointed out, it seems unlikely that a broken seal to the dark one’s prison would be locked away- I always assumed that this was the second definitive sign that the seals are weakening (the first bring the presence of 2 escaped forsaken). Until recently, that seal was intact…
Two circumstances in these chapters, combined with the previous chapter, form a paradox that I’ve never been able to solve.
In the previous chapter, Rand moved rather mysteriously from the cliff to Tarwin’s Gap, and the chapter ended with Rand passing out in Ba’alzamon’s lair, wherever that is located. When Rand regains consciousness he’s back on the cliff, as if he had never left it. There is no hint at any person or mechanism that could have brought him back there. This suggests that Rand moved about “in the spirit” somehow, while his body remained on the cliff. But then we’re told that the Shienaran soldiers saw Rand in the Gap. They didn’t just see the effects of what he did; they saw a man. Noboby seems to have recognized Rand, but Agelmar saw him well enough to be sure that it was a man and not a woman. This seems to suggest that Rand was really there in the flesh.
Things we learn in later books allow for some more educated guesses about what actually happened, but the paradox remains: If Rand was corporally on the cliff the whole time, then what did the soldiers see? If not, then what brought him back?
//Why is there suddenly a big discussion about the Oaths? I don’t think they have been mentioned yet.//
The Forsaken in the first book have to kill themselves (at least Aginor does) because the heroes aren’t yet able to fight them. That doesn’t make the Forsaken look like terrible bad guys who are used to frighten children because they are so powerful. Rand does fight Ba’alzamon, but he doesn’t really know what he is doing, and Ba’alzamon is more interested in villain monologues than in fighting anyway //and that doesn’t change even when Rand becomes more powerful, maybe because Ishy was a philosopher//.
It never made sense to me that everyone seems to know the names of evil antagonists when it is forbidden to say their name (Voldemort is another example). Writing isn’t really a good excuse: why should writing the name be safer? Often the written word is considered even more powerful.
The seal wasn’t broken when the Aes Sedai made the Eye, presumably it was the breaking of the seal that let Aginor & Balthemal free, as they were closest to the edge of the prison. We are to understand that the “Seal” is merely one of the focal points to the weaves that seal the DO’s prison and therefore are not location sensitive, as the prison is everywhere and nowhere at once, though the thinnest point in reality is at Shayol Ghul.
Mat’s dagger will be…integral to the next book. And no, it was the taint of the Dagger that lead the Forsaken to the Eye. Mat being identified had nothing to do with it; by this point they were all identified (Rand had immediately gone to the figure with the sword and ended up getting the sword as a sliver in his finger thus identifying himself).
@27 I must have missed something but I don’t remember /Semerhage ridiculing Aes Sedai for their stupidity it wasn’t implied that Ishmael had a hand in 3 oaths. I remember from Verin note that he forced his Dark Ajah to remove them and replace them with his own oaths. Which was a jerk thing to do and obviously part of way to dominate those women. Since they were loyal to him, he could’ve just removed those oaths thus prolonging their lives but he wanted no competition so back to binding rod and short lives. He probably didn’t bother with Males since their lives were already shortened by Taint./
@37:
Because children always do what is forbidden. And there’s probably not usually any real consequences to saying Shai’tan, because he’s not able to touch the world prior to the events of this story. So, take a place like the Two Rivers. Mat likely hears a Coplin say the name as a curse, and by the end of the day, every child in the Two Rivers knows the name. This pattern will repeat itself for generations.
The very fact that everyone knows the name means that every one has heard it said, and there’s no real lasting consequence during the Third Age to saying it. Just enough spookiness to make it forbidden, and enticing to try, at the same time.
Well done, Sylas. It’s been fun to follow your comments each time. I’m looking forward to the next series.
Regarding Rand’s seeming confusion and inability to recognize the obvious, I’ve seen that over and over again in teaching undergraduates. After all, that’s the right age for the Two Rivers folks. I’ve watched really bright people struggle to overcome prejudices and everything they’ve been taught as they learned more of the world than their sheltered childhoods revealed to them. And I went through the same process when I “left the farm” and moved on at that age.
It’s part of growing up, even for the Dragon Reborn, I think.
Seeing that growth happen and those lives blossom was one of the most exciting parts of my career. And I got the same enjoyment reading the series, thanks to my grandson.
Now someone tell me why I keep going back to it, please. ;-)
@39 //I think people would have noticed if only certain Aes Sedai didn’t get the ageless look. The BA had to swear something on the Oath Rod or they’d stand out.//
Wow, lots of Egwene hate. Personally, I thought all the characters went through hatable stretches, but I think that just made them feel more realistic to me . After all, these are basically a bunch of teenagers going through the end of the world. Thankfully, I think Mat gets his worst stretch out of the way in book 1.
This isn’t a spolier, at least I don’t think so, so look at this as a logic puzzle. If Ba’alzamon is dead, and the Dark One isn’t dead, then….. ? Ba’alzamon has portrayed himself as the Dark One in dreams throughout this book but is he the Father of Lies, or maybe just a lie? We shall see!
Rand’s refusal to believe he’s the Dragon is almost beyond belief. The ultimate denial for sure. But the Dragon is a reviled character of legend with only the horror stories remaining after 3,000 years. Who knows now what kind of man he was before going mad and breaking the world? None living. Well, the Forsaken, but they’re not telling. Add Two Rivers stubbornness and distrust of Aes Sedai and there you go.
I think this first book ended with just the right amount of cliffhanger and still a definite end of the adventure, for now. While there are some things that Jordan tried on but didn’t take to the cash register, like Moiraine’s staff, I believe he had a very solid plan for where he was taking us, not just in book two but much farther down the line. There are too many things mentioned just in passing that won’t make any connections until books 8, 9, 10 and beyond. He must’ve had an amazing outline prepared before he even started writing it.
Rand has a lot to learn about channeling.
Congrats on reading the first book of an amazing series. I’m envious that you get to read it for the first time. I’ve read all the books multiple times and I keep coming back. Looking forward to your take on the Great Hunt…..
I haven’t posted yet, but I’ve been following since. .. the third installment, I guess.
I’m enjoying this immensely, it’s not every day that you get to watch someone read your favorite series for the first time, and your insights have been amazing… amusing… something with some similar combination of letters.
I can’t wait to start the next book with you!
Yeah, no happy endings or easy answers for Rand (or the others) at this point. As Neuxue said, “That’s what happens when you’re in a series.”
Men clad “in steel and flowers” would be an interestign sight.
I like to think the Blight is quiet because it’s in mourning for Aginor, who made its creatures. But it’s not.
“There are many Halfmen yet, and countless Trollocs.” Thank you for the reminder that killing a Shadowspawn army is at best a temporary reprieve. Newsflash: those armies are male, and males ain’t the limiting factor in population growth. Female Trollocs are “breeding machines,” according to Jordan, and there’s more where that came from.
///The land has been “freed from winter”…into endless summer. Yay, not. But they don’t know that.///
///I don’t recall why the Horn needs to be taken to Illian. Maybe I’ll go try to figure it out.///
Ironic Lines of the Day:
///“Let us be thankful no more of the Forsaken were freed. If they had been, we would have seen them.” You underestimate them, Moiraine, though I don’t fault you for that. They’re good at not being seen when they choose, and not all of them will want to fight Rand immediately after being freed.///
///“Oh, I won’t ever touch [saidin] again. Not if I have to cut my hand off first.” Very funny, Jordan. And kind of a weird non sequitur, since the One Power obviously doesn’t get externally “touched” by the wielder’s hand. I guess Rand was attempting a joke.///
Up next, The Great Hunt, my favorite book in the series! :-D
@47 One of the best parts of re-reading is finding where the author’s been really clever. I don’t know if RJ was the giggling type but I know a few authors who’d be giggling madly over that turn of phrase.
//If Rand wasn’t the Dragon Reborn now would be the perfect time to gentle him before he develops OP addiction. The problem with gentling is that the Red Ajah usually only find men when they have already been channeling long enough to become addicted, and Cads seems to be the only one who tried to offer therapy for their withdrawal problems.//
@14 or anyone else, is there a good link to ISAM summaries? Link I found doesn’t work.
Thanks!
@47. Searching for “Men clad “in steel and flowers” would be an interestign sight.” In the best British fashion and tongue in cheek manner, search for Monty Python and the Holy Grail….. not sure about the subtitle since Monty Python films are comedy sketches woven into a whole product… either Lancelot or the Wedding, or the Rescue…
Incongruity at its finest.
https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/77089-the-wheel-of-time-summaries-by-isam-spoilers-till-book-cot/
Sylas, I don’t have anything to comment on the regular posts, I just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying this read and hope you continue through the entire series. It’s a great way for me to “re-read” a series I read years ago without actually having to commit to 14 long books.
@47:
Moiraine wants Aglemar to take the Horn to Illian because // her plan is to have Rand present the Horn to Illian, as the person who “found” it, and then to support him through her connections to have Illian declare Rand king. She may also know about Tam by now, or she may not, either way, she tells us this plan in tSR, I think. //
@48 I think Jordan cackled madly with mirth about // Tar Valon, the city island where strong women rule and have all the power.
Hint: Google Tar Valon map and cackle madly as well. (If you can’t take a joke hidden in plain site, don’t google it) //
I think the reason Rand doesn’t realize he is the Dragon Reborn is pretty obvious. *roll over for spoilers* //There have been plenty of men since the breaking of the world who can channel (there is one other in this book alone). Some of them claim that they are the Dragon Reborn and are labelled False Dragons, are captured and gentled. It stands to reason that there are many more who channel (Thom’s nephew), go mad and die (possibly killing their family or destroying their village in the process). Being a male who can channel destines you to go mad, it does not mean you are the Dragon Reborn.//
Note: message edited by moderator to white out spoilers.
#55 I’m trying really hard, but I don’t think I’ll be able to unsee that any time soon.
I love that you called Egwene a Hermione, because waaaay back in the day, Leigh classified Egwene as an ‘ooh oooh girl!’ which is a phrase that still sticks in my head. Anyway, Egwene is a polarizing character, but I personally love her.
//(I assume in one of these books they’re going to fix the taint, because it’d be hard—although interesting—to have a 14-book series in which your most powerful hero can never use his abilities. Or maybe there are a bunch more secret pools of saidin out there, who knows.) //- this really made me laugh since,// well, yeah, they fix the taint, but…not for about 10 books and that doesn’t stop Rand from using his powers (or going mad).//
@55 – wow. I…can’t believe I never noticed that. LOL.
@56 I did not think there was anything spoilery in the above post (all of that information was given and shown in TEOTW and Sylas has actually commented on most of it in detail in previous posts). If it is whited out Sylas cannot actually read it and respond. Any suggestions as to what could be removed to remove what may be considered a spoiler? If moderators have access to my email address feel free to email me.
@58, Leigh defined an Ooh Ooh Girl as that girl who sat in the first row at school and whose hand shot up like a rocket every single time the teacher asked a question. Personally I was the girl sitting a few rows back wondering irritably why that girl couldn’t give somebody else a chance sometimes. That said I dont hate Egwene, granted she’s aggressive and abrasive and tends to be dismissive of mere males but after all Nynaeve was her role model! Nynaeve is totally hilarious thanks to her amazing lack of self awarness.
@60
//Probably the detail that Owyn could channel. That is not stated until TGH. In the paragraph that Thom mentioned him in Ch. 26 in TEOTW, he only said he “got in trouble with the Aes Sedai” and died a few years later.//
@60 Ahh, thanks for that tip! //I had totally forgotten that wasn’t mentioned until much later// Doesn’t look like there is a way to edit or delete a comment. But I’d like to fix @56 so it doesn’t need spoiler guards. If I have to write another comment I’m fine with that but in that case I’d like to make sure that’s the only piece that would need changing.
@63
If you “take the black” (i.e. register for Tor.com), you gain the ability to edit your posts. I don’t know if that applies to past posts though.
@47 ///Regarding” The land has been “freed from winter”…into endless summer. Yay, not. But they don’t know that” Isn’t there another winter before that starts happening? I feel like a significant amount of time takes place during the portal stone chapter in The great Hunt and there would have to have been one more winter somewhere in there..///
@47 & @65 //Yes, there is another winter, about a year goes by in tGH.. the girls go to Tar Valon, & the boys trek across the continent to Falme, they all end up there during the fall.. then at the start of tDR, it’s winter again, by book 4 they are heading into the endless summer.//
@66 Thanks.// I was trying to figure out how all the events of the series could take place with one less year in it and it was stretching credibility.//
fernandan @@@@@ 64: No, you can’t edit posts made in red even if you later sign up with the same username; there’s no way to verify that you were the author of the original posts, after all.
@66: ///Wow, I didn’t realize TGH took place over such a long timespan. I guess I was too Distracted By The Shadowspawn. :-p ///
I laughed so hard when Sylas said // “I wonder if it’ll be easy to get [Mat] to Tar Valon in the next book and get him fixed up quickly”//. So great to relive the series through fresh eyes. Keep up the great work. Look forward to these every week. In my opinion the books just get better and better. There are some slower parts torward the middle, but when you don’t have to wait 2-4 years between books like I did, it’s really no problem. You have such great adventures ahead of you.
@64/ fernandan et al,
I tried “taking the black”, but my name appeared as “keleborn” rather than as “Keleborn”. I tried contacting Tor but there did not seem to be way to do that. I tried unsubscribing and reregistering, again to no avail. I considered posting about this on a thread, but decided that would be inappropriate. So I just went back to Red.
But now that the possible advantages of registering have come up as a topic of discussion … I’d register as Keleborn (the black) if I could.
“Keleborn the Black.” lol. Yes, there are those benefits, but “Keleborn the Red” is welcome to hang around for a while.
The registery process is weird, I had to become princessroxana instead of staying Roxana. I didnt care about the lowercase.
You guys know you can put the caps back into your screen name after registration, right?
I didn’t.
@60: If it’s any consolation, this was my first read of this book and I’ve never read any of the others, and I assumed that the bit of yours that got whited out was the case, because what else could that mean? I guess it counts as a spoiler because it’s implied but not stated, but for me, at least, it was implied in such a way that it didn’t occur to me that another conclusion was possible, especially given the strength of the resulting emotional reaction. (How’s all that for circumlocution? *grin*)
So, to everybody who’s read the series: I liked this book, but I didn’t love it. I am buried under my to-read pile. This series is one heck of a commitment. Is it really worth it to continue when I already own many thousands of pages that I haven’t found time to read?
@77 – yes. Books 3-6 are epic, as is 11, and the rest are either quite good or good. The series is an immersive experience but the payoffs are high, especially when plot items raised several books earlier are finally driven home.
@77 Yes? At least until book 3 to get a better sense of how the series moves away from Tolkien. Also, reading the series after it’s finished avoids the worst of the dragging plotlines. The late middle books are much easier to read when they can be grasped as complete stories rather than the latest installment in the story.
While Fantasy is getting diverse enough that you don’t need to read WoT, it’s still one of the landmark series and exemplifies how the genre’s relationship to Tolkien is changing (or was changing at a particular moment in time).
@77, It is indeed one heck of a commitment. It took me a couple of months to read through the whole series, yes I have no life. IMO the first two books drag but it gets considerably better in the third in spite of plotlines that drag through several books before being resolved and an infamous chapter in which two characters take a bath in incredible detail. Frankly I think the series could use some editing but it’s not bad.
@77: Yes, a huge commitment, and many of the payoffs are subtle and take a long time in the build. Some of it depends on your personal reading speed as well, of course.
If you didn’t love Book 1, I’d say that the litmus test is: #1: Did you love Book 2? If you don’t love it by the end of The Great Hunt it’s probably not your cup of tea.
#2: Do you like your fantasy with a big helping of intertextuality and philosophy? If so, then I do think you still really need to read WoT, even though the genre is becoming more diverse. If those aren’t types of epic fantasy writing that grab you, though, then you may be happier in the more contemporary parts of your TDR pile.
Regarding changing your screen name after taking the black:
Navigate to :
http://tor.com/members/{your-user-name}/settings/profile/
You have the choice to set a screen name that is different than your username (all lower case) there.
Change the Name (required) field to what you want your screen name to be. Then use the Display Name dropdown to select the Name field as the Display Name, rather than the username field.
@77:
You ask a group of people who spend far too many hours a week commenting on an online forum about The Wheel of Time if they think reading The Wheel of Time is a worthwhile pursuit?
Methinks you will get a lot of “Yes.” You’ve got mine.
///Hah. I got hooked ny the abundance of Shadowspawn in TEOTW and TGH, then was endlessly frustrated that they seldom-to-never appeared in most of the subsequent books. But that’s (proably literally) just me.///
The plot of the first book doesn’t really work that well for me. We’re going to Tar Valon. We’re going to Tar Valon. No, the bad guy wants to lure us to the Eye, it’s great that we have a fast way to get there. The End.
The second isn’t my favorite, either, but after that the series becomes good, even if some of the later books are a bit slow (//the bath takes two chapters//). I read those books when they came out, but can’t really tell what’s in which book. The end is great again.
@85, the sudden shift of goal doesn’t work well for me either. I believe I’ve mentioned I find the confrontation with Aignor and Balthamel, ie: the Third String Forsaken, rather tedious and it is so painfully obvious to the reader that this isn’t over that Rand’s assumption he’s killed Shaitan looks like blatant stupidity.
Mind you going Tar Valon probably wouldn’t have turned out so well for our hero judging by subsequent events.
@85, 86:
I’ll provide an alternate point of view. The “sudden shift” was only to their plans, not the plot of the novel. This is the point of the novel where our Heroes turn from “reaction” to “action.” Previous to this, they are running away with no real plan. “Get to Tar Valon” isn’t a plan. In Moiraine’s case, she has ulterior motives. In Rand’s case, his goal isn’t to get to Tar Valon, its to find out why the Trollocs are chasing him. Heading for the Eye is just as likely to reveal that information as heading to Tar Valon. The rest are just along for the ride, and they do argue the point.
This is the “midpoint” in 7-point plotting, but it doesn’t have to come int he middle of the book. Its where the protagonists finally have enough information to begin to act.
For me, it works, because we, the readers, had all the necessary information prior to this scene. It doesn’t come out of left field. Its pretty well set up. When all the information is finally laid out, and pieced together, the conclusion seems obvious. I don’t know how they could decide to go another way.
And they literally couldn’t go another way. Caemlyn was surrounded by Trollocs and Myrddraal. The choice was between taking the Ways to Tar Valon, or taking the Ways to as close to the Eye as she could get.
Moiraine’s reasoning is solid, but there a piece of it that she doesn’t explain to the Emond Fielders, which is obvious in retrospect; if she decides to take them to Tar Valon now, and let the Amyrlin decide what they should do, the Hall is unlikely to let them leave again, certainly not the girls, likely not Moiraine, and never the three ta’veren. Who she believes need to go.
So, maybe it comes down to, did you find the plot turn too abrupt. With everything laid down about the Eye of the World, the separate references, and the book being named The Eye of the World, I didn’t find it that hard to believe that the plot turned to direct them to the Eye rather than to Tar Valon.
@85:
Well, the Trollocs are like Imps or Goblins in Final Fantasy – eventually, your characters level past them. As soon as Rand starts killing them by the thousands in The Dragon Reborn, they are no longer worth having on-screen, as they aren’t a viable threat. We do get more of other Shadowspawn, such as Darkhounds, and the Gollem, but none with their own “culture.” I get it, I do. But its likely that Robert Jordan just couldn’t bring himself to write more about the “culture” of Trollocs after the hints we get in The Great Hunt. Its kind of… horrific.
@77 Like @83 Anthony Pero said, I think everyone here would probably say yes, many of us have read the whole series multiple times. I think if you like it at all, you should stick with it. If you like extensive world building, long involved series with lots of tidbits that don’t pay off until many books later, if you like any of the characters and want to see long term development and growth in them, if you like fictional cultures/cultural clashes/cultural biases, then the whole series is worth it. I didn’t particularly love the first 3 books, but they kept my interest. I did love books 4-6, and I really loved the last 3 books. I did not love some of Jordan’s later books, but loved the world and loved or hated the characters enough to continue. But those last 3 books, Sanderson’s books, are so worth getting to. There are so many pay offs, even things barely mentioned in the 1st book, that you don’t really get to until that last book.
@84 /// We do get a healthy amount of shadowspawn in the Two Rivers in book 4. But the victory there kind of shows why we don’t see much of them from that point until the last battle. It just wasn’t working for the Dark One. When arguably the weakest of the main characters, Perrin (No One Power, Not gifted with as many combat useful powers as Mat) can lead a bunch of farmers to victory over them, then sending small groups of them out was no longer a priority to The Dark One. Also Rand did send Loial around to all the waygates to hamper his troop transport. Plot wise it all kind of tracks that the enemy would start to concentrate on amassing all the Trollocs for the last battle. ///
@77 Book 1 is IMO too heavily from Rand’s point of view. By Book 3 you should get to occupy space in most of the main characters heads and have a better grasp of whether you want to join them on the journey.
Even if the answers were almost a given, I like seeing all the reasons people suggest continuing on.
*sniff* I think he could have kept writing about Shadowspawn if that had been his priority, ///not making superpowered human heroes and villains///. But they would probably have lost the intriguing mystique that makes me more obsessed with them than with any other non-aquatic fictional creatures or beings.
@77 I guess I’ll chime in with my thoughts. The first book definitely has a different “feel” from the remaining books, so it’s probably worth giving the next book or two a try to see if they grab you more.
The reason I really like this series is that you really see the characters develop into the badasses needed to save the world. And I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say this isn’t just a Rand story. There’s plenty of forsaken, shadowspawn, and armies for all the characters to get a piece of the action.
Read em. Then read em again. And again.
This statistical analysis of WoT from Barnes & Noble is quite interesting but it contains spoilers so only read it if you’ve already read the series or if you don’t care about being spoiled concerning some things.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/statistical-analysis-wheel-time/
I’m just glad that when I begun reading WOT (Jan 1999) I was still a teenager and didn’t have complete agency over how I spent my time- going to school, homework, playing sports, eat, sleep…
Otherwise eventually they would’ve found my skeleton in a corner of the room, still clutching A Crown of Swords. We can last only so long without sleep, food, and water…
Thanks, all. Sure, I expected a ton of Yes, but the why is helpful, and I think the why has kicked me over into my own Yes, at least for another book or two. I do like delayed payoffs, if I notice them. Like, circumlocuting again to avoid needing a whiteout, the moment I realized that something in the Mistborn books that I’d thought was sloppy editing was actually a major plot point and went “OH CRAP THAT’S AWESOME.” And Tolkien remains my favorite author overall, so I’m not exactly put off by wordiness. :) Thanks again!
Now I’m curious, what was the thing in Mistborn you noticed?
It had been so long since I read these early books that I enjoyed the review. I think Egwene was the quiet one you didn’t notice at first. You know what they say about the quiet ones.
@99: Time to see if I can figure out spoiler formatting. :) It’s been a while since I read them and they were borrowed, so I can’t remember or look up the exact thing, but //there was something or other written in a prophecy early-ish on. A bunch of chapters later or possibly even in a later book, someone looked at the prophecy again, and I read it and said “Hey, that’s not what it said before!” I went back and checked, and lo and behold, that wasn’t what it said before, and I cursed both writer and editor. Much later still, it turned out that the written prophecy itself had been changed due to in-world reality-altering events, and I praised both writer and editor.//
Also and unrelated: @74 and @82, thanks for the tip on putting caps in my name where I wanted them.
@1 – “Nice call on Matt possibly revealing himself to the Forsaken by picking up his figure in the Dream” – //while ishy had 3 figurines, with 3 different attributes, it is logical to assume that he faced those 3 before. the DR of course, a wolfbrother as he himself said before in this book, but the dagger? We never got the understanding that the dagger is an ongoing symbol being carried by one of the DO’s adversaries, so what’s up with that? Later on the frosaken don’t talk about Mat as the dagger holder but as the one with luck/strategic genious… so I’m confused here//
@9 – “And also it was apparently done under the direct influence of Ishamael./” excuse me? the what was done under whom? what the…?
@11 – “I wonder if Robert Jordan had called Egwene a Tav’eren too she would still get all the hate” – or maybe she’s a Tav’eren specializing in getting all the hate. :(
@13 “@10. Bah. First of all, // the Three Oaths were inspired by Ishamael and were one of his successes.//” where is that stated?
@14 – “I really think we need to post the ISAM summary of EOTW” – ISAM summary? can someone explain what that is?(man I need lots of explaining nowadays…)
@101 – MadamAtom, I don’t know if you still see this, but if it helps – wait with your decision NOT after book 2, but after the third at least as I agree that 3-6 ARE epic. In my opinion there are big pacing problems with the Great Hunt and //I really couldn’t stomach what they did to Egwene, and the getting lost on the mirror universe and the traveling with Lanfear were dragged soooo long for no reason.//
Thank you Sylas for sharing your reading experience with us. I started reading this series 20 years ago, in German. The first German translations were splitted, two or three times, so that you had to wait even longer for only the next part of the book. Later I read the books in English, but you still had to wait years between the books so I reread the ones before – I’m sure I read the first one five times. And I’m still so fascinated by your often spot on take on the story, that I read everything you wrote concerning the first book in one go today. Thank you for again reminding me, why I loved this series so much.
Since you seem interested in the origin of names (maybe I’m really not telling you anything new) :
Shaitan is Arabic, means the same as the Hebrew Satan and means enemy.
Ba’al is Semitic for Master and zamon Uzbek for time, era, so Ba’alzamon – Master of time, which I find very interesting for reasons that will be clear once you are further along.
I will follow you with great interest, expecting you to see a lot of things many of us didn’t
For all of the people bagging on The Eye Of The World as someone who just finished a reread of it I have to say that I forgot how much fun this book is
Hey Sylas, just wanted to thank you
I read The eye of the world about a year ago, and i just got the time to go for the great hunt now. Being able to recap the first book through your posts was really helpful and fun.
I may wouldn’t be able to stick with it if i had to read the whole book again right now, but having this to enjoy was really important to me, so again just thank you (: