For this week’s #WoTWednesday, The Wheel of Time TV series showrunner Rafe Judkins answered fan questions on Twitter! The short-form, rapid-fire Q&A lasted only an hour but has revealed plenty about Judkins’ vision for the series. While he couldn’t say if Amazon Studios has ordered a pilot or an entire season, he was forthcoming with thoughts on translating the magic system from page to screen, consulting with Team Jordan, and whether he’ll appear at JordanCon (“pencil me in”) or other conventions. And only a few WAFOs!
Read on for highlights from Judkins’ Twitter Q&A.
Here we go! I'll answer one question per person, as long as it is in response to THIS thread with #WoTWednesday and #WheelofTime hashtagged! Also, I can't answer most questions because of NDAs/the desire to surprise in series/dramatic suspense/etc, but I'll do what I can :)
— Rafe Judkins (@rafejudkins) September 12, 2018
Making A Series for Old and New Fans
In your view, what is the heart and soul of this TV show? ie, Why will people (non-fans included) want to watch? (@dragonmount)
Rafe Judkins: To me, and the way I’ve pitched it since I first became involved, is that even though the world is incredible, the magic system one of the best in fantasy, and the gender dynamics are so fresh feeling, the thing at the heart of this are the characters.
So, I think those first three things are the things that may bring in first-time viewers, it’s the last thing that will keep them there :)
Handling Canon (Including the Game of Thrones Dilemma)
How closely do you anticipate the show to follow the ‘true canon’ of the books, or are you already planning on creating a parallel canon? Are you considering having any of Team Jordan on-hand as consultants through the process at all? (@ThreeIfBySpace)
RJ: I am telling the story of the books, but as with any adaptation to a different medium, there will be differences. Otherwise, what will people have to scream about after each episode? #ladystoneheart4ever
Considering all the fan questions Jordan, @BrandSanderson, and #TeamJordan have answered about the #WheelofTime over the years, have you studied that mountain of data not found in the books? If not, what’s your strategy to make sure you get all the details right? (@Theoryland)
RJ: I’m in communications with everyone on #TeamJordan, and will be even more so once we are further down the line. They’ve lived this and will be invaluable to me. I’m also the kind of writer who values all the data I can get, and then let it inform but not direct my decision making
What written resources besides the published novels are you utilizing (such as Robert Jordan’s archived notes, The Wheel of Time Companion, the comic book adaptations)? (@WinesprngBrothr)
RJ: Everything I can get my hands on!
How would you like to handle the prologue of EOTW, and the prequel scenes from New Spring? (@Bambi740977317)
RJ: I have plans for both of these, but you’ll unfortunately have to wait for the show to see :)
Character-Centric Questions, Including the Most Important Casting Decision
Who do you see in the role of Bela? (@christinibnini)
RJ: I am SO GLAD you asked this. I love Bela, and although we’re very far away from this, I already want to make sure that we have a consistent horse(s) to track her through the entire run of the show :)
Egwene is a divisive character among fandom (although my fav, as a fellow community organizer), what do you think is her defining attributes that you would want to bring out in the show? (@rileysweeney)
RJ: I’m obsessed with Egwene. I think, of all the characters, she faces some of the most dramatic/impossible choices in the series. And to me, characters you fall in love with are the ones who have to face these choices and come out stronger on the other side. She is going to rock
Who is your favorite character, and why is it Egwene? (@Thegreatestjen1)
RJ: This is my favorite question so far. I know it’s lame, but I honestly have too many favorites — Egwene, Aviendha, Mat, Nynaeve, Perrin, Rand, Tam — honestly I believe that when you’re writing you have to be in love with all of your characters, and now that I’m writing, I am ha
Will Logain’s story line be retained in TV series? And if yes, just interesting how you imagine this character? =) (@alishanda1)
RJ: I really like Logain and plan to not only retain, but expand, his role in series.
How much badassery do you think we can expect from the Mat vs Gawyn & Galad fight? (@itsmecaterpie)
RJ: I mean this question answers itself, doesn’t it? ;) (ie. badassery, obviously)
Will @BillyZane be reprising his role as Ishmael ? (@KMalfet)
RJ: NO.
Dream Location-Scouting
What would be your dream location to shoot the first season of the show? (@BrownAjah16)
RJ: The Lofoten Islands of Norway! But only because I just want to live there. I’m sure we’ll end up somewhere with some more diverse landscapes that better capture the breadth of the WoT world ;)
Translating the Magic from Page to Screen
How do you plan to write around the fact that the weaving of the power is so in depth but can’t really be visualized well on screen? (@Vumbug)
RJ: I’m hoping it can be visualized well on screen!
Have you written any Wolf Brother/Wolf Communication yet & how will it be represented (words whispered, images, etc.)? (@LycoPsycho)
RJ: This’ll be decided with the consultation of a director. But I think that using images to convey meaning might be very suited to TV :)
Does the idea of SFX impact how you write the series? Do you find yourself hesitating with certain ideas for shots/scenes based on awareness that they’ll be really complicated/expensive? As a literal gruesome monster, this concerns me. (@TrollocTalk)
RJ: Yeah, you have to be considering this at all stages of the process. Making a show is about making the right choices to deliver the best thing to screen, and so I’m already considering props vs sfx vs makeup vs vfx for everything.
Thoughtful Representation
WoT is controversial regarding how it handles gender/sexuality/mental health. My audience at WoTTalk has expressed concern on how these topics will be handled. Would you mind commenting on these concerns/how you plan to approach these topics? (@DanielBGreene)
RJ: I think the explorations of these topics is something important and I’ll be using a lot of advisors and writers around me to make sure that we tackle them thoughtfully.
Hi @rafejudkins what are your thoughts/plans regarding lgtbq representation in the shows? There is some in the books (pillow friends and such) & we know how much it matters to be represented in media. Thank you! (@TarValon)
RJ: I think that gender is such a key theme of the books, and discussing gender without a full representation of LGBTQ+ people would be a disservice to that discussion. Rest assured, their will be pillow friends out the wazoo.
The Look of the Series
Is @AmazonStudios planning to give the show the same scope and production value as HBO’s #GameofThrones, or #Westworld, or is this entirely a unique beast? Does Amazon realize the potential of this property? Thank you! (@glindsey212)
RJ: Regardless of budget, I will make sure that we are only executing on screen things that look as good as those shows do. The smaller the budget, the less of those things, but I think it’s important that the entire show feel real, grounded, and premium
But What Will It Sound Like?
i think music will be a massive thing for the show, i LOVE elder scrolls oblivion music, but…. listening to Metallica songs/lyrics…. (frayed ends of sanity,blackened etc) i think that suits too, any ideas on that front about what music to use yet? (@top10tam)
RJ: We’re still a ways from music decisions! A lot of that will be director/composer/music supervisor dependent. I like to hire people who are really good at their jobs and take their advice, so it may end up being different than what I think right now :)
The Power of Fans
Is there any way for fans to get involved with the show in some fashion? (@malkiersking)
RJ: I think being involved online is a great way to contribute to the show. You’d be shocked by how many showrunners/writers/executives/etc read posts for their show on reddit/twitter/AV Club and more. On past shows, most people would discuss fan reaction the morning after each ep
Ugh .I missed this and really wanted to participate. I have some Mat questions.
Did anyone else read RJ’s first response and do a double take like “wait is this a Robert Jordan interview???”
Seriously, all I want is for the show to be serious and not campy and cheap. Changes will be made and I can live with it, just don’t make a fool out of the work plz and thx
Rafe is just going to have to change his name. We can’t continue with his voice being listed as “RJ”. I love it, but its just not going to work for the next 14 years. :)
So, Logain’s role will be expanded…. This appears to be the most concrete/objective piece of new info to come out of this.
Hey, you left out my question! I asked him if Rand’s romantic plot would remain the same, as in liking one girl at first but ending up with other three, and he answered no. Another question regarding Rands relationship with his three women received a Wafo (watch and find out). This is probably the biggest divergence between TV show and books that we know of as of now. Let’s hope it’s just Rand and Egwene not being sweethearts at the beginning, and not the end of the three wives and triple bonding.
Now Rafe has commented on my post. Apparently we’re getting a polyamory relationship and not a polygamic one. So Elayne and Aviendha’s romantic relationship is Canon on TV and not just a shipper’s dream?
@5/6
Per Wertzone’s article on the same topic:
“Rafe, will Rand’s romance plot remain close to the books? I mean, liking one girl at first but ending up with three in the end?”
“No.”
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/09/wheel-of-time-tv-showrunner-hosts-q.html
But all I see from the Q&A is “I really like The Wheel of Time but I really don’t like The Wheel of Time. I’m gonna change a significant portion of the story to fit how I want the world to be.”
I’m probably going to watch it, if it gets greenlit, and it’ll probably be a pretty awesome show, but it’s not going to really be The Wheel of Time per Robert Jordan. Brandon Sanderson finished it but had he written the whole thing (with the same notes, etc.) it wouldn’t have been The Wheel of Time. Same with this.. it looks like some of the events and places may still exist, but half or more of the story will be changed according to the new philosophy. If that’s how they want to go, adapt a book that already checks all the required boxes.
@neiana I couldn’t agree more.
So many stories getting destroyed for diversity agendas. That ruins the diversified library of stories because all end up having to check off the labels and the story gets lost on the wayside.
For example: “Pillow friends galore?” Supposed to be rare and shameful in this world which is sad and tragic and part of how and why things happen as they do – blackmail and betrayal etc. I find this dismaying.
@8:
Literally no one viewed it as shameful in the books. Give an example. Some Aes Sedai did say that most novices grow out of the experimentation, but not all, and no one was scornful of it.
@7
To be fair, “I really like The Wheel of Time but I really don’t like The Wheel of Time” is, in my experience, a real hallmark of the fandom. And I mean that affectionately! There will always be debate about what “faithful” is in this context, but I feel pretty comfortable the effort will be made.
@9 Anthony Pero
Like most things in WoT, you’ll find many views expressed about a topic in book. While some had the perspective you highlight from the book(more acceptable as novices when lonely but often grow out of it, best not to worry either way), there was a specific instance of a Wind Finder and Aes Sedai being pillow friends in the later books and finding that out led to the Wind Finder being blackmailed. So, perhaps the Sea People look down on that sort of thing…
@11:
That’s true, but do we know the blackmail was regarding her sexuality? I assumed it had more to do with her marriage, or perhaps her position. Do we know she wouldn’t have been blackmailed if she’d had an affair with a man?
Either way, that hardly supports the statement made @8: For example: “Pillow friends galore?” Supposed to be rare and shameful in this world
The Windfinder could be blackmailed because she was married, to a man, and adultery is a very serious offense in their culture. Jordan himself said same sex preferences are no big deal in his world. Some AS think it’s just a stage girls should get over, but when the first Black Ajah hunters are noted to be spending a lot of time together the first thought is ”they’re pillow friends’ then ‘Wait, why would they be so secretive about that?’
Folks commenting on the pillow friend thing pretty much covered it already. One instance one could interpret it the other way (if you try really really really hard) is Moiraine’s discomfort when her relationship with Siuan was brought up during her interrogation by Cadsuane in New Spring.
But this was because of her Cairhienin heritage and didn’t matter if her partner was male or female. Though if Siuan had turned out to be male might have caused a bit of a stirr among the AS :)
It was a fun twitter feed… or tweet storm… or whatever it is called… I’m a twitter amateur. LOL. I only joined twitter because of Rafe Judkins… I didn’t get my question answered but I might have posed it after the hour was out or made an error with the tags… My question was more of a challenge… “Will you gather Jordan’s work and translate it to the screen in such a way that makes the fans proud?”.
He rarely went into specifics… he has to get Amazon studios to provide a production budget before he can enact any wish list items… It was fun with a fair bit of tongue in cheek responses… many WAFOs, etc. He would not commit to any rating system… ie. TV-14 vs TV-MA… he provided multiple comments on these topics and combining them is still murky… which suggests that the exact decision has not been made or he is concerned about fan interest. Comments, such as “I want it to feel adult but accessible”, (which was his response to two separate questions), “If there is nudity, I’m sure there will be cuts of the show available without it as well :)”, target audience? “like the books, this show should be aimed at a wide audience.”
But this tends to get more murky, when asked who his favorite forsaken is and his first response is Graendal. When asked about Saldaean farm girls, he retorted that “they most embody my spirit”.
I was reassured by most of Rafe’s replies.
He clearly is a fan of the series, and I have more hope for the project than I did before. Sure, he mentioned lots of changes, but that is inevitable in any book-to-film adaptation (and in some cases it is necessary and beneficial.). I was particularly reassured by his comments about wanting the show to be accessible to a wide audience (since I do have concerns about the rating of the show- I won’t/can’t watch if it is MA).
I mean, who doesn’t want more Logain? and moving some of the sideplots around shouldn’t be a problem. While the series takes place over such a short period of time, I see no reason why the timeline couldn’t be extended a bit.
I am not sure how to feel about his comments on the romance issue (though I am 100% OK with Rand not ending up with three women), but we shall see.
I do NOT want to see the entire White Tower become a lesbian coven, just for the sake of “representation.”
@15:
He’s not answering those questions outright, because its not really up to the showrunner/head writer. The network bosses will make those calls, along with the episode director. He’s not the boss of whomever directs the episode, and doesn’t make decisions about film angles, edits, etc.
@17:
I don’t see how that would be possible, given some of the characters we have. But anything is possible, I suppose. But, since they are primarily the antagonists throughout the series (at least, the Tower Aes Sedai) I can’t imagine he’s going to make that choice.
@18.. Yes, he’s maybe not alone on making the decision… but neither can the directors hop back and forth on target audience…. this episode it’s puppies and daisies, next episode Greandel’s furniture collections and Asha’men human(food) processor magic at Dumai Wells…. They are going to have to keep it clean or make it “dirty” for lack of a better term… maybe messy? I’m sure they could save some money on no nudity clauses in the contracts… no sex like scenes, no braid tugging… wait how did that get in there…
@20 as far as rating goes, I don’t really see Wheel of Time being Mature ala GoT. The books are usually, despite being pretty violent in places, basically PG-13 at the worst. And the REALLY violent scenes like Dumai’s Wells don’t have to be shone in such detail as to be ‘mature’ rated.
I’m expecting them to stick with a rough PG-13ish level. And just because pillow friends will be shown and acknowledged more doesn’t mean there will be nudity or even sex scenes, just that they will exist. And the simple existence of gay relationships in something shouldn’t have any effect on its rating anyway, just like having a married straight couple wouldn’t.
I actually have no problem with Rand’s Harem. Avienda and Elayne have a relationship and a commitment that has nothing to do with Rand and both intend to create a similar relationship with Min. Basically it’s Rand who should be worried. He’s totally outnumbered here.
He is also totally in love with each woman, in very different ways and for very different reasons. Min is the one he’s comfortable with, the one he feels will always understand – even when he doesn’t himself. Elayne is simply wonderful, he could happily kneel at her feet and adore her for hours. But he also adores her political intelligence and how she can make things he doesn’t understand like taxes and such comprehensible Aviendha is a living link to the parents and heritage he never knew. She speaks to his heart and yet his mind is often totally confused by her. Oddly he kind of likes that combination.
There also seem to be thematic reasons for the foursome, the Hero supported by powerful female archetypes; Queen, Warrior and Seeress.
@22: princessroxana: I don’t have a problem with it either, in the book, but I don’t know how well it would be handled in a TV series.
I definitely wouldn’t want any of the three to be absent from the story, as they are all central.
@23 ladyrian, Yes, it might be considered problematic. We could have Rand in love with all three but end up with Min – I certainly hope it would be Min – while Elayne and Aviendha end up with each other but everybody stays friends. Or would that be even more problematic?
He certainly needs all three. Elayne for at least one trustworthy royal supporter and Aviendha as a link with the Aiel and Min who keeps him sane. More or less.
@21 – RJ’s writing might have been PG-13, but the content sure wasn’t. Unless, of course, you consider copious amounts of nudity to be PG-13…
We are at the mercy of the show runner/writer on the Love quad….
“Min, I’d say she’s as pretty as you, but how do you compare two sunrises?……You are a very dangerous man, Rand al Thor.”
But I would be very sad to see conversations like that disappear…
Min’s characterization is fabulous! She’s pummeling him sentence by sentence… but he hit her with the uppercut sentence I quoted above….
Any man willing to marry three women is asking for it…. just imagine if the gutters get clogged…
@2
Rafe kind of answered a couple questions about target audience and audience experience. He is writing the story for an adult audience but like the book is accessible to everyone, so probably no graphic sex or violence. He also wants the audience to have an experience similar to that of Lord of the Rings, and Game of Throne, and NOT Shannara. That seems to suggest that the show won’t be campy.
@5 and 7
I always had the Rand threesome pegged as something that would be altered when/if the books were adapted.
@26, If you are Rand al-Thor you probably just will the gutters clear.
@20,21:
Well, to be true to the books, there would be a crap ton of opportunities for onscreen nudity. I do hope they avoid that.
But, we’ve got Shienarans bath houses, Tower initiations, Aiel sweat tents, Rhiudean Wise One tests, Nynaeve’s first test (with Aeginor) she was completely nude, and that’s just off the top of my head. There’s a LOT more.
Are audiences changing and we Jordan holdouts part of an older crowd?
I suppose I don’t know my own mind on this issue… I want the show to be successful. And I no longer know what that takes today… If you look at GoT, it makes you wonder… it is wildly popular… and I could not get past s1 ep6…Stark is beheaded… I was done… I barely made it that far… I kind of found the show in a word: disgusting. The first episode was really hard to get through, but I was willing to give it a chance. Then they snipped Stark out of the pattern and I was done. There wasn’t a character worth my time left in the show. I don’t remember any deep world building… the Magic? was there any… different cultures? Well, we have the ravening hordes of humans who enslave people for sex maybe oh and they have baby dragons… and then the civilized humans over here who have relations with their own family members… ick! Winter couldn’t happen fast enough. Wipe the whole place out…best ending possible! Nope, the audience still craves the show now eight seasons in…
Not sure what Netflix is going to do with the Witcher, but the game was one long journey of man’s inhumanity to man… Ah but we have the wonderful hero (well, mercenary) coming to save the day, if you have enough coin… Just what I love in a leading character… no distinguishing character but a dry wit and the emotional depth of a teaspoon. Oh and pointless sex without any emotional commitment…
Shall I start digging into the horrific Shannara Chronicles? I know it is at the teeny-bopper side of the equation….. I won’t go into all the ways it failed…I will spare you that…
So how will they weave a path between Wheel of Time Chronicles and Wheel of Thrones? How do they keep the core audience and attract new without disappointing everyone? I don’t have an answer, I’m just posing the question… I guess it’s a WAFO moment…
@30
If Rafe Judkins is smart then he will play up the mystery of the world that Jordan built. It’s what kept bringing me back. I think everyone finds a good mystery intriguing.
@30:
To be fair, Stark was beheaded in the 1996 novel, and people found it breathtaking and irresistible storytelling. The first three novels in A Song of Fire and Ice are some of the best writing and storytelling America has produced, fantasy or not. I thought the show adapted the first book well. It was shocking, but in service to the larger story. That kinda changed over the course of Season 2, where the shock value became the goal. But Ned’s death was never done to provide shock value, although it did that in spades. Ned’s death was a commentary on honor vs pragmatism. Although, I think Ned comes out of that argument better than most people realize.
@32… I might give it another go… but I believe I slogged through the first novel… and started on the second and punted… I don’t know who saw them as irresistible or breathtaking…the best America has produced? Popularity does not make it great in my opinion. It makes money. I mean Twilight was popular, but the writing was not inspiring (put me to sleep many nights). Which is part of what I was exploring. And mostly answers my question… Is it Me? I fully admit that I can’t relate to villains. And GoT after Ned’s death is a story of villains(because he was the only hero). Same reason I can’t or won’t watch The Godfather. I cannot see myself in the role of a villain. So I cannot enjoy the story. I always wonder how the hero is going to stop the villain. It’s my burden. Glad Jordan made this series… I can always re-read it… :) again….and again… he provides heroes of varying types in an epic fantasy that has an amazing magic system, crazy beautiful cultures, and wonderful characterization. Hope it translates to the screen.
@33:
But that’s exactly it. The villains aren’t the Lannisters, and the heroes aren’t the Starks. A Song of Fire and Ice is the story about a world unprepared for the Apocalypse, because the people who knew the Prophecies are all dead. So instead, they are squabbling over who will rule, when they should be uniting and looking to the Enemy from the Prologue. The actual villains.
@@@@@17. JasonD
@@@@@19. Anthony Pero
By the time the series comes to our screen, only 1/3 of the White Tower will identify as women.
@35, That of course is the problem, WoT is very binary. That might not go over well with some.
I will remain hopeful that it will work out, but I will be extremely disappointed if Rand and the Aiel people are changed in such a way. I don’t believe in those things myself but have no issue with it in this fantasy world.
His enthusiasm is encouraging (although I may be biased as I also love Egwene and Logain) but it will be interesting to see what changes, either for pragmatic reasons, as well as to appeal to a modern audience. I don’t really have a problem with this particular universe being founded on a metaphysical gender binary, and I’m not really sure how much they can start to veer from that and still keep other elements of the worldbuilding/metaphysics. It will be interesting to see how this all gets pulled off.
Man I gotta say I am sort of concerned about the conversation about gender, feminism, etc… I’m actually very liberal, but lately the focus on feminism in shows has been a little too much. In many shows I feel like women characters being condescending and rude to men is celebrated, which is kinda off-putting for some dudes such as myself. I just really hope that WoT, a great series from my childhood, is not going to be made into a political commentary. Reading the books I didn’t really notice any real problems as far as gender/mental health, although of course I was like 12 when I read it. Some of the female characters do have sort of weird personalities, which probably has to do with the writer Robert Jordan being a dude, and this maybe should be altered slightly. There are some pretty solid divisions between men and women in the book enforced by the fact that women can channel and men really can’t, but this is a huge part of the book and the gender roles in the book are arguably more equal than in today’s society anyway. I don’t have a problem with adding some gay characters but I wouldn’t change up the plot or characters too much, the book series was so incredibly detailed and thought out over 30 years that while it has some holes in the plot it is overall pretty good. Please don’t play to a tiny audience who wants to see the show go super politically correct. Having people respect each other is one thing but creating situations to make PC points takes away from the show. Stick to the book and it can’t go wrong, am really excited to see how my favorite parts show up in the show (love the foreign peoples and how the book explores its world; Seanchan, Aiel, Sharans, Warders). No matter how bad the show is I am gonna watch it, but if it can stay true to the book plot that’ll be awesome.