Hey there! Welcome back! We’re back in Urithiru for the Oathbringer Reread this week, and not dreaming either. It’s all meetings, logistics, and scholarship this week, with undercurrents of personal interactions to keep things interesting. I mean, Sebarial is always… interesting, right?
Reminder: we’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the entire novel in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done. There are no Cosmere spoilers in this week’s reread, so you’re safe in that regard.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Navani
WHERE: Urithiru
WHEN: 1174.2.5.4 (The same day as Dalinar’s dream/vision/nightmare in Chapter 103)
Navani meets with the loyal highprinces in Dalinar’s absence, trying to address the many different issues that arise with thousands of people living in a semi-functional tower city. Once that is concluded, she checks in with Jasnah’s team down in the gemstone library.
Beginnings
Title: Strength
What had happened to them in Kholinar? Where were they?
Strength. They would return.
A: This whole chapter is full of Navani maintaining strength even though she’s worried sick about her son, grandson, and nephew—because somehow, someone has to be strong and keep this kingdom functioning. Of course, for reasons she doesn’t yet know, Dalinar has even more to cope with than she does, but we’ll get to that later.
Herald: Paliah is the Scholar, patron of the Truthwatchers, with the divine attributes Learned and Giving.
A: I’m guessing Paliah is here equally for her role as Scholar, reflected in Jasnah and her team, and for her position as the original Truthwatcher, per the focus on Renarin and his abilities. It’s also possible that Giving is demonstrated in Navani’s efforts to keep things going until Dalinar can recover from the worst of his issues.
Icon: The Fabrial Gemstone icon, new just a few chapters ago, tells us we’ve got Navani’s POV.
Epigraph:
Ashertmarn, the Heart of the Revel, is the final of the three great mindless Unmade. His gift to men is not prophecy or battle focus, but a lust for indulgence. Indeed, the great debauchery recorded from the court of Bayala in 480—which led to dynastic collapse—might be attributable to the influence of Ashertmarn.
— From Hessi’s Mythica, page 203
A: It seems fairly obvious that Ashertmarn was already taking up residence in Kholinar during Words of Radiance, when we had the Interlude from the ardent Lhan. It also seems likely, in retrospect, that it didn’t arrive there until after Navani had left to return to the Shattered Plains (in The Way of Kings). I’m happy about this; it explains why Navani thought that Aesudan had things well in hand, when the first thing we saw in Kholinar was a complete shambles. I wonder if the timing of the arrival of a powerful Unmade is significant—like, if it’s tied to one of those dark-light spheres Gavilar had.
L: I’ve been wondering the same thing about the dark-light sphere.
Relationships & Romances
She just had to give Dalinar time. Even if, deep down, a part of her was angry. Angry that his pain so overshadowed her growing fear for Elhokar and Adolin. Angry that he got to drink himself to oblivion, leaving her to pick up the pieces.
But she had learned that nobody was strong all the time, not even Dalinar Kholin. Love wasn’t about being right or wrong, but about standing up and helping when your partner’s back was bowed. He would likely do the same for her someday.
L: This is a wonderfully mature way of looking at things, and a very nice contrast to the more immature romances we’ve seen up to this point. Adolin and Shallan are sweet, yeah, but they lack the life experiences that Navani has. I don’t blame her for feeling a little angry, but the fact that she’s able to self-analyze the reason why and come to terms with it is absolutely wonderful. It’s a good thing that Dalinar has her.
A: You nailed it, Lyndsey. This maturity in a relationship is such a breath of fresh air! Sure, we all understand why she’s angry about it, but I do admire her decision to step up and do what needs to be done when Dalinar can’t. I especially admire her internal acknowledgement that it’s not all one way, and he’ll do the same for her. (I wonder if this is foreshadowing…)
It’s also worth noting that Navani doesn’t know the extent of what Dalinar is facing. There’s the obvious: the disappearance of the Kholinar team, including their sons, and his excommunication from the Vorin church. Both of those are traumatic—but honestly, I’m pretty sure Dalinar could keep going in the face of those two problems. It’s the problems he hasn’t told her about, at least not in detail, that have him crawling into the bottles. I have a suspicion that she’ll learn about those (probably off-page between books) as she proofreads his biography manuscript. I wonder how she’ll respond.
Storms, Navani thought. [Renarin] truly looks happy. … She’d worried when he had first “joined” Bridge Four. He was the son of a highprince. Decorum and distance were appropriate when dealing with enlisted soldiers.
But when, before this, had she last heard him laugh?
A: This just… I don’t quite know what to say, but I love seeing Renarin with Bridge Four. They are so good for him.
L: Same. Bridge 4 is a haven for misfits, and it’s always lovely to see someone find a home there.
There was no arguing with Jasnah, any more than there was arguing with a boulder. You just stepped to the side and went around.
A: Hah! That’s Jasnah, all right—and a wise mother! Their other interaction is priceless:
“It’s not the language, but the dismissal,” Jasnah said. “Histories.”
Oh, right.
“History is the key to human understanding.
Here we go.
“We must learn from the past and apply that knowledge to our modern experience.”
Lectured by my own daughter again.
“The best indication of what human beings will do is not what they think, but what the record says similar groups have done in the past.”
“Of course, Brightness.”
A: This just cracked me up. I mean… Jasnah isn’t wrong. You see it all the time IRL—people think that this time they know what to do, and it will be fine, despite the fact that their big idea has been tried and proven to fail repeatedly. But giving her mother the professor lecture, with Navani’s thoughts interspersed, and then “Of course, Brightness”—maybe it’s just me, but I laughed so hard at that section.
Bruised & Broken
Teft, for example, had been hauled before Aladar’s magistrates two days ago. Public intoxication on firemoss. Aladar had quietly requested her seal to free him.
L: Oh, Teft. We know that his story winds up positive (at least… so far), but this still hurts, to see him backsliding.
A: ::sniffle::
She had no problem being a wife or mother to monarchs, but to be one herself—storms, what a dark path that would lead them all down.
A: Why? What do we not know about Navani??
L: Yeah, honestly, I don’t see the horror in this. She doesn’t strike me as the type to be making an observation about women in positions of power, so there must be something else going on here.
A: Exactly. She has nothing but respect for Queen Fen, and we don’t hear that she objected to crowning Jasnah. It seems that the issue is with Navani herself. It could just be that she doesn’t think she’d be a good queen, but… the phrasing seems more emphatic than that.
Squires & Sidekicks
The five men of Bridge Four arrayed themselves behind Navani. They had been surprised when she’d asked them to escort her; they didn’t yet understand the authority they lent the throne.
A: There’s nothing huge to say about the Bridge Four team in this chapter; they’re just solidly there, as chill as ever. Leyten, Hobber, Huio, and two others escort Navani, remain cheerfully expectant of Kaladin’s return, circumspectly remind Navani that their abilities are limited (by Kaladin’s absence and the fact that only one at a time can use the Honorblade), tease Renarin, and generally act just like themselves. Love those guys. (Also, if you didn’t see the cut text, it’s one of my favorite lines ever. I even suggested it as a chapter title.)
L: They’re the best.
Places & Peoples—& Politics
Brightness Bethab had come representing her husband. The men in the army tended to disrespect him for letting her do so — but that ignored the fact that marrying Mishinah for her political acumen had been a wise and calculated move.
A: Ah, Rosharan politics and roles. It’s pretty funny that among the Alethi nobles, women being the scholars and engineers as well as the only ones who can read, there’s still this idea that men are the clever politicians. Personally, I find it quite admirable that Highprince Bethab was smart enough (given his position) to recognize his own areas of weakness, and find a wife who is strong in those areas—and one he can trust, too.
Aladar cleared his throat, sitting. “You know, Brightness, that we are the most loyal to your husband’s cause.”
“Or at the least,” Sebarial added, “we’re the ones hoping to get rich by throwing in our lot with him.”
Buy the Book
Fate of the Fallen
A: Sebarial cracks me up, even as I sometimes want to smack him. Nothing like enlightened self-interest to keep things going!
L: I mean… at least he’s honest.
“Navani,” Brightlady Bethab said. … “We appreciate that you’ve taken the initiative in this difficult time.” There was a glint to her orange eyes, as if she assumed Navani was enjoying her new power.
A: That’s a natural assumption, even if it’s not true currently; we know that in the past, Navani did enjoy the scheming and politicking, and did her part enthusiastically. I still find myself annoyed by the assumption.
L: Eh. I think there’s a distinct difference between scheming behind the scenes and taking the actual reins, which is what is being insinuated here.
“The highking proclamation has not been made official,” Navani said. “I think it’s best to pretend you don’t know about it, for now. …”
A: Sigh. It’s painful to read this now, knowing how this secrecy will later be used against them. I’m not sure openness would have served any better, of course, but… it’s still painful to look ahead.
L: Transparency may have helped them, but then again, it may not have. We honestly have no way of knowing.
A: Meanwhile, there’s a meeting. They have to sort out the latest logistical problems with living in Urithiru, where the infrastructure is all there but is stubbornly non-functional. Plumbing issues (going both ways), labor issues, materiel issues, food issues… Fortunately, the temporary solutions are worked out in a three-hour meeting we don’t have to read.
L: ::says a silent prayer of thanks to the Stormfather for that::
Tight Butts and Coconuts
… all but Sebarial, who appeared to be flipping through a stack of cards bearing pictures of women in compromising positions.
A: How many of them are showing their safehands? Seriously, though, this is totally a thing Sebarial would do—bring his favorite porn collection along to a boring meeting.
L: Sebarial just doesn’t give a single, solitary flying f*** about what anyone thinks of him and I’ve got to respect that.
A: Except Navani, a little? (Actually, I think he does care—he deliberately presents himself in a way that pushes others to see him in a light that keeps them from taking him seriously. It leaves him a lot more room to maneuver.)
“The only thing he seems to be mourning,” Sebarial said, “is the fact that people won’t bring him bottles of wine fast enough for—“
“Damnation, Turinad!” Navani snapped. “That’s enough!”
Sebarial blinked, then pocketed his cards. “Sorry, Brightness.”
A: I’m not sure which is funnier, Sebarial’s initial comment, Navani’s reaction, or Sebarial’s reaction to Navani! I mean, no, Dalinar in a drunken stupor isn’t exactly funny, but Sebarial’s phrasing sure is. I think he sometimes forgets that people can be passionate about things he thinks are unimportant—which is why it’s so funny when Navani snarls at him, and he actually apologizes for ill-timed snark. Who knew he could do that?
Also, now we know what “Turi” is short for.
Murky Motivations
During Gavilar’s last days, he had gone strange. Few knew how dark he’d grown, but they had seen the eccentricity.
A: Am I right in thinking this is the first hint of Gavilar “going wrong” in a more obvious sense? I mean… that whole thing about bringing back the Listeners’ “old gods” and having something with Voidlight trapped in a sphere was pretty wonky. The Sons of Honor plan to jumpstart a new Desolation to bring back the Heralds was bizarre at best. But… I don’t remember seeing him as really growing dark. I guess most of what (little) we know had come from Dalinar before this, and he a) thought his brother was next thing to God and b) was too drunk most of the time to notice anyway.
The Prologue for Rhythm of War is from Navani’s perspective. I wonder if we’ll get more on the subject of Gavilar growing dark.
L: I seem to recall discussion of him going strange (presumably in reference to his adherence to the Way of Kings), but I don’t recall ever reading anything about him being dark. It does seem to fit with his actions and with that dark gem he was carrying around, though. Which I still want to find out more about…
“Tell us honestly, Brightness,” Sebarial said, leaning forward. “What does the Blackthorn want? Is this all secretly a way for him to dominate the world?”
Storms. Even they worried about it. And why shouldn’t they? It made so much sense.
A: It’s not true, of course, and she convinces them of that. There are a couple other things worth noting here, though.
One is (as we’ve said before) that it really is understandable that the rest of the world views Dalinar’s coalition with suspicion. Unification is, far too often, merely a code for subjugation. Unfortunately, he can’t drag the entire world into the visions with him, to convince them of the burning necessity to come together.
L: …Not yet, anyway.
A: The other thing I… well, I wonder about, though I don’t have evidence: Do the Alethi highprinces actually object to the idea of Alethkar dominating the world? As long as they’re well-positioned to benefit from it, I can see some of them (at a minimum) thinking that it would be just fine. Why not?
L: Yeah, we don’t really get the tone of that dialogue. Navani assumes they’re worrying about it, but they could very well be hoping for it instead. It’s certainly possible.
And, bless them, these four did want the coalition to work. Aladar and Sebarial, for all their flaws, had followed Dalinar into the dark of the Weeping and found Damnation waiting there. Hatham and Bethab had been at the advent of the new storm, and could see that Dalinar had been right.
They didn’t care that the Blackthorn was a heretic—or even whether he usurped the throne of Alethkar. They cared that he had a plan for dealing with the enemy, long-term.
A: This almost needs a different title, because the motivation here is clear as crystal: Survive.
L: They’ve seen first-hand what’s at stake, so it makes perfect sense that they’d be all in.
Stories & Songs
A: The end of the chapter involves Navani checking in on Jasnah’s team of scribes, who are attempting to translate all the gemstones in the library to see what they can learn. Navani, naturally, is primarily concerned with any tidbits of information about making Urithiru work. Jasnah is interested in the history. It makes for some funny interactions, but we don’t actually learn a whole lot.
Navani does comment—in a statement that we now know as foreshadowing of dire things to come—that the Dawnchant is close to being cracked. That seems to trouble Jasnah, but no explanation is given. In retrospect, it seems possible that Jasnah has been keeping close tabs on the project, and is becoming aware of the implications of what has been translated thus far.
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
The glyphs were scrawled in white on the highprince’s wall, the paper read. [There follows more quotation, and then a summary of Renarin’s secretive warnings prior to the Everstorm.]
It was a little odd, but in the face of everything else, it didn’t really register. And… well, it was Renarin. Why had Jasnah collected all of these?
A: This fits loosely within Jasnah’s earlier assertion that she needed to keep Renarin close and to study his powers. However…
I have a description for you, finally, Jasnah, another said. We’ve convinced the Radiant that Lift found in Yeddaw to visit Azimir. Though she has not yet arrived, you can find sketches of her spren companion here. It looks like the shimmer you see on a wall when you shine light through a crystal.
A: Knowing what we know now, it’s impossible not to feel apprehensive. Jasnah was apparently suspicious of something at this point—and Navani’s reaction indicates that this is not merely normal procedure. She was not only collecting every bit of information about Renarin’s abilities, but also about his spren. Was she bothered by not ever being able to see his spren? Had she caught a glimpse? Was she becoming convinced that his powers didn’t line up with the historical record of what Truthwatchers did? What was her concern? We really don’t know what triggered this investigation, but something has her worried. And, unfortunately, rightly so.
Appraising Artwork
A: There’s just a brief mention of this little item in the chapter, but it will become a Plot Point later on. The translated text reads as follows:
Touch the gems in the correct combination to release a shock from the front nodes that will incapacitate an attacker
Top View
Side View
Stormpiece
Timepiece
L: This reminds me a great deal of Asami’s gloves in Avatar: Legend of Korra. I wonder what kind of spren they’ve got trapped in there? Are there different spren/gems for each function?
Well, that wraps it up for this week. Next week, we’ll be tackling Chapter 105 all on its lonesome. We’ll join Dalinar in attending Gavilar’s funeral, and watch him make a momentous decision…
Alice is losing her voice from yelling at volleyball matches. She also, finally, learned how libero substitution works. It’s complicated.
Lyndsey is currently working on a flight suit from Sanderson’s Starsight. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or Instagram.
Just for the record, I assume you guys have heard the RoW prologue readings?
Not much to this chapter. But really looking forward to next week’s. Navani’s ketek is one of the most beautiful poems I’ve read.
If we ever get more scene from Jasnah’s time spent in Shadesmar it might help us to understand her early suspicion of Renarin; maybe she had interactions with the truthwatchers?
Love this chapter because we get to learn and understand so much more about Navani. Her quiet strength and her intelligence. I look forward to seeing more of that and….(Rhythm of War Spoilers below)
Looks like we will see more :)
It makes me happy to see after so much Renarin has gone through, he can find some kinship with bridge 4 and slowly work his way out of his shell. I forget if it is this chapter or another, where Jasnah is shown to be protective of him. Like a mother hen not sure of her child’s new friends. It shows how fiercely Jasnah loves her family.
Teft and Dalinar combo shows how easily it is to back slide into addiction. It is an every day, every minute, every second fight against yourself.
That is an interesting point regarding Navani dreading being a ruler. I totally missed that on my reads. It certainly does hint to an interesting history with Navani!
As far as I am concerned, Gavilar’s darkness is leading the Sons of Honor, a group bent on bringing about a desolation so they can bring their religion back to prominence. According to the records desolations killed untold numbers. All that they want to cause again, (when they do not have to) because they want to be seen as right. Worse still they end up wrong, so all those lives lost and to be lost were for nothing. Instead of taking responsibility, Amaram doubles down, and it seems from…. (Rhythm of War Spoilers below)
Gavilar does the same.
I think the fact that the highprinces all assume and in many cases like the idea of conquering the world shows how much of an uphill battle Dalinar has had and continues to have in trying to change things for the better. To make sure another Blackthorn never happens again.
Ivory knows the reason for the radiant betrayal (or at least what we are ultimately told so far), but where Jasnah wants to tell everyone, he advises her not to, and she listens to him.
@3 Zero_G
Personally I think Jasnah’s suspicion started on the reveal of his future sight. It is continually stated future sight is of Odium. Now we know all shards have varying levels of future sight, and other magic systems provide them to varying degrees, but perhaps she was operating on that premise, which made her concerned with what was happening with Renarin, and was researching to find out how and why.
“(Also, if you didn’t see the cut text, it’s one of my favorite lines ever. I even suggested it as a chapter title.)”
This is one of my few complaints about tor.com, that the cut text is lost whenever an article gets past the homepage. I also sometimes follow the links from FaceBook, which also does not include the cut text.
I do not understand why the refusal to speak up rightful anger at a husband appearing to be prioritizing his own pain over his duties and his wife (Navani does not know the real reason for Dalinar’s behavior, she thinks he suffers from the same as her) is supposed to be a sign of maturity.
In the past, too many women have been told to be meek, to be quiet, to never raise their voice, and to accept their needs were not a priority. Too many women are *still* being told their emotions matter less than their husbands nor everyone else’s. It *still* is a problem within too many relationships.
Hence, I will not praise Navani for refusing to speak up her anger, for refusing to prioritize her needs, for accepting Dalinar has the right to go drunk on her while she has to push through a pain she believes is identical. I will not praise Navani for not being rightfully angry at what appears to be an unfair situation.
I do not find it mature to endure, once again, a man putting his own needs in front of others. Like Gavilar once did. Resignation is not maturiy. It is a plight too many women suffer from. As for the “of course he’d do the same for me”… How many times has Navani told herself the same with Gavilar? Of course, one day, he would be more considerate… She just had to be patient, to be strong, to do everything he needs her to do and, once day, he’ll notice… The fact we, the readers, know this is probably true for Dalinar does not mean Navani’s inner monologue isn’t speaking of greater issues.
I am afraid I have a very different reading of this chapter.
I loooove Dalinar and Navani’s relationship. My favorite couple will always be Shallan and Adolin, but really it’s just the way it is and I’m just drawn to that relationship more.
What is really beautiful about Dalinar and Navani’s relationship is that maturity. The mature love that works so great. I really love them and I’m so happy that they got married. They deserve all happiness…
Y’know, I never quite thought though the implications of that Fabrial in the artwork before. Possibly because Navani doesn’t seem to realized the potential it has either. But in fact it’s a Fabrial that generates electricity, so of course using it to power a clock and fend off attackers is just the tip of the iceberg. I wonder how many people out there are interesting in pushing the research further in that direction?
I generally agree with Jasnah that those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. However, you cannot be so beholden to history that you miss how slight changes effect the current events. You see this all the time in political analyses of elections. The pundits think that because they now understand what occurred in the last election, they can predict how things will go in the next election cycle. Unfortunately, that does not account for variables that have never happened before. Political pundits were slow to understand how the use of social media could impact the way the electorate sees political events that occur during the campaign and the impact on fundraising. Similarly, some characters in the Matrix thought they knew how certain things would unfold. Yet they did not account for variables like Agent Smith.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
So, concerning Gavilar’s dark-light spheres, I don’t think that Ashertmarn would have fit into one of those, given the size of King’s Drop that was required to imprison Nerghaul. Also, Hessi cites what looks like a post-Recreance event as an example of Ashertmarn’s influence, so it couldn’t have been imprisoned. However, my guess is that Aesudan was already working for Odium and likely invited/drew Ashertmarn to Kholinar somehow. I am also becoming convinced that the spheres contained intelligent voidspren of the same class as Ulim and that Venli let him out of the sphere that Gavilar had given to Eshonai.
The timing of Navani leaving for the Shattered Plains and everything falling apart in the capital as uncomfortably tight, though. Do we have an idea about how much time passed between Navani’s arrival there in WoK and Lhan’s Intelude in WoR, where the decay was already in full swing? I wonder even more about Dalinar’s spy who escorted Taln to the camps and helped to trap Amaram in his deceit – how is it possible that _he_ noticed nothing amiss? Or was he a traitor? I hope that somebody remembers about his existence in book 4 and questions him or something.
It is also rather heart-warming to see how much Navani cares about her nephews – it is clear that she played a big part of their upbringing. I have always wondered about the coldness between Ehlokar and his cousins – you’d think that they would have been close, given that they essentially grew up in the same household and were partly raised by the same people – given that Dalinar almost never returned to the capital when his children were young and that Evi spent half of her time with him. And after her death he was an alcoholic wreck, so again it was up to Navani and Jasnah (and Gavilar?) to see to his sons. Could Ehlokar have been jealous somehow?
Yea, Jasnah is ominously evaluating Renarin’s threat level “to the dynasty”, as her earlier PoV hinted. Maybe she has some idea as to what the Truthwatcher powers should and shouldn’t entail. Jasnah also, of course, knew what caused the Recreance, because Hoid had straight-out told her and she was having an argument with Ivory earlier about whether she should share tha knowledge and ultimately decided not to. So, yea, she likely had a fairly good reason to be wary of the Eila stele translation.
I was glad to see the Highprinces again, because ultimately Our Heroes would have to work through them to preserve and reform Alethkar. I am still really curious about Hatham, who was chosen by a Ryshadium and has a worldhopper ardent and was involved in mysterious dealings with the Nathanatan ambassador back in WoK.
I’d also very much like to know what various first names mean. Like, Turinad, for instance, or Navani. Mishinah Betab seems to be named after the moon Mishim?
Speaking of safehands, the drawings of the use of the clock/painrial combo seem to shamelessly involve _both_ hands and both of them clearly feminine and uncovered! Also, the clock dial seems to be divided in 12 hours, which can’t be right.
Gavilar’s darkness and Navani’s conviction that herself becoming a monarch would be catastrophic certainly hints at something.
@11: I don’t think it’s just the same class as Ulim- I feel reasonably certain that the sphere Eshonai received contained Ulim specifically. Because we know that Ulim had been speaking with Venli for awhile, and I’m pretty sure that ‘give it to Venli’ would have been exactly what Eshonai would do with something like that.
@9 Gilphon
I can’t wait to see the kind of fabrial tech navani has developed in the year long gap. They already got time pieces, painrials, and tasers. Who knows what she can come up with next?
@10 AndrewHB
Interesting thoughts. Learn from history, but don’t be so focused on it that you lose sight and end up making the same mistakes anyway.
@11 Isilel
I am having trouble recalling, but I thought Taln did not show up at Kholinar? I thought it was some other town or city. I will need to check…..
edit: you are right. it was Kholinar.
We do have WoB that Elhokar was jealous of Jasnah. That it was part of the reason she kept her distance from him. So he would have one less shadow to live under (the other being Gavilar).
Personally, though I acknowledge this is entirely conjecture on my part, I feel Jasnah started watching Renarin out of concern for him. Wondering/worrying that some entity was using him. It was later when it seemed voluntary on his part, she worried he was colluding. Even then it didn’t matter in the end because she loves him, and will do whatever she can to help him.
Interesting points about Hatham. Wonder what will develop there.
Lol regarding the drawing, it is probably due to artistic liberties. The real world artist probably forgot to consider Roshar is in terms of 10.
@11 Isilel
Ah ha! Taln is already at the Shattered Plains well ensconced at the insane asylum before Pai does her act of rebellion, and gets executed by the Queen. So it would be reasonable to deduce that while Dalinar’s man picks up Taln, the city was still “ok” at the time. Navani was already at the Shattered Plains at that point. So Ashterman might have arrived around the time of Pai’s act of defiance or slightly before.
When it says it will release a ‘shock’ I’m pretty sure it does not mean an electrical shock but a shock of pain. It reverses the painrial’s function from taking pain to inflicting pain, in such a shocking amount that it shuts the person down temporarily. I doubt that they have enough understanding of electricity to think of creating a weapon that uses it but using pain? That would be within their wheelhouse…
(Much like how in the discworld books semaphore towers rose up as a parallel evolution to our telegram system. Remarkably similar applications but built on a different base.)
As for Navani worrying about herself as a ruler, unless I hear of some specific incident in her past I’m putting it down to her acknowledging that she no longer has the patience to put up with others giving her grief. She is simply concerned that her temper would make such a thing a sure disaster.
@15 Count me as one who still has some reservations about Navani. I mean, I really like her, but I fear there are things in her past – while not nearly as bad as Dalinar – that may change how we view her when they come out. This scene and the ominous tone of the Strormfather when questioning her about broken oaths makes me wonder just a bit.
@7 While recognizing your point, in Navani’s case, Dalinar already has supported her in a similar situation when she mourned Jasnah. She neglected her duties and Dalinar gave her space and didn’t push her until far later – to the detriment of everyone, unfortunately. It’s hard to know if Dalinar shirking here made Taravnagian’s plots more effective or not.
Jasnah wrote about everything, from her father’s biography to gender relations to the importance of chull breedinf cycles on the southern slopes of the Horneater Peaks. One of those too-infrequent reminders that Jasnah is great and we don’t spend enough page time with her.
*eyeroll at the Alethi* Navani did not get with Dalinar “immediately” after Gavilar’s death.
I really like this little chapter. Navani does such a great job leading here that it makes me wonder why she’s afraid of being the true ruler. I hope we see why later somewhere.
And Jasnah, the bossy and brilliant daughter. I have 4 daughters, and they’re not this bad all put together! She’s right about so many things though, gotta give her some credit. At least she wasn’t certain enough to act against Renarin until later.
So many little goodies with Bridge 4, Sebarial, etc
@16: I am a firm believer that, in an equalitarian relationship, both partners need to have the freedom to express their emotions and their thoughts, both the positive and the negative. Navani has struck me as an individual who has constantly shied away from her own emotions in order to fulfill tasks she believed she was required to fulfill.
In the scene at hand, Navani chose not to be angry, not to express this anger she had the right to feel. I wish she felt she could have told those feelings to Dalinar instead of just covering up for him, pretending nothing bad was happening. And yes, it is important to be “strong” when the other needs you, but my impressions are Navani is merely reproducing the same behavioral patterns she once had with Gavilar: she was angry at him for being inconsiderate, but as far as we can tell, she never so much as raised her voice to tell him. Granted, Dalinar is not Gavilar, he has proven the ability to be more supportive and considerate than his brother ever was, but Navani still should have believed in her right to be angry. Anger isn’t negative. Anger can be expressed in a constructive manner and had Navani achieved this, I would have said this was very mature, but shutting it down is a behavior I have seen too often in women to be pleased by it.
All this is why I wished she had told Dalinar how she felt. And I also believe Dalinar needed to hear how his own behavior could have an impact on those he loves. Of all people, I felt Navani could have been the one to tell him.
The bottom line is everyone should be more open, talk… more. That’s what I find mature: the ability to voice out thoughts both positive and negative without turning it into a fight.
@ChocolateRob:
The semaphore towers were quite real, in our universe. The French Empire under Napoleon I used them. They did provide a real advantage, right up until the telegraph made them obsolete (very shortly).
Pterry was also commenting on steampunk, and its trope of finding mechanical substitutes for real-world electrical devices.
@whitespine:
Stormfather says she broke oaths previously, and she doesn’t deny it. The only oath I can think of that we know Navani has taken: her marriage oath. Will we find out that Jasnah isn’t Gavilar’s daughter? That would make her whole “Family” speech to Renarin tragically ironic, and also make her status as queen a potential disaster for Team Radiant. (I kind of like the idea that her father was Torol Sadeas, now that I’m on this odd mental path. There’s no question that Jasnah shows mild psychopathy, or at least what old-school psychologists would call a schizoid personality.)
In my mind there is a parallel between Navani helping out Dalinar when he falls apart in Oathbringer and Dalinar helping out Navani when she falls apart emotionally in Words of Radiance.
Navani didn’t have a big public meltdown like Dalinar does, but she is, understandably, emotionally / mentally withdrawn for the middle portion of WoR after her daughter’s death. She acknowledges this in her journal entries.
@20 – Did…did you just suggest an affair between Navani and Sadeas? *shudders*
necessary_eagle @1 – I can’t speak for Lyndsey, but I have read the ROW prologue pieces released so far. Since the content is obviously spoilers for anyone who hasn’t, we won’t base any of our discussion on it, and anything we say about it will be white-texted. Clearly we don’t see the identity of the narrator as a spoiler, since that info has been out for years. :) But yeah, anything else is a spoiler.
Loosely related, there’s rumor that the ROW beta may start as early as January. If y’all notice that we suddenly get real tight-lipped with the speculation, that’s why. We not only don’t want to give anything away, we don’t want to leak anything about subjects that will or won’t be addressed.
I think Navani thinking of herself being in charge as a possible disaster is less about setting up a further mystery and more about clearing the deck for Jasnah to take over at the end of the book.
@15 ChocolateRob
I agree that it is a painrial, especially with Navani’s description later on. Even the medical applications are wonderful. Imagine being able to do surgeries, without hurting the patient, and no risk of drug dependence. Attracting fabrials can draw the blood away while doing the surgery. Conjoined fabrials could allow for intricate internal surgery (tiny blades or forceps in the chest cavity, while the surgeon manipulates them outside like we have begun with robotics). That could also aid in keeping it sanitary as the tools would just have to be kept clean instead of the surgeon as well. Also using attracting and repelling fabrials to act as pumps for blood and oxygen.
I think it is a mix of both. I think something happened in her past that makes her doubt herself in a leadership position. Which is why she would prefer to play advisor/support, than focused role. It would also explain why despite the advances she makes in fabrial science, she continually belittles her own accomplishments and views herself as just a monetary donator, than a scientist.
@16 whitespine
Good point. I still lean towards seeing the best in Navani, but I agree it can certainly be read that way.
@18 Joyspren
I agree! Definitely want to learn more about Navani!
@20 Carl
Looking forward to seeing various ways the magi-tech of fabrials mimic steampunk in that regard. Gemstones powering and being used gives me imagery of superman’s fortress of solitude and his “crystal” computer.
Very interesting thought regarding Jasnah, Navani and Sadeas. It would be quite the revelation. It could also be an even greater plot point between Jasnah and Renarin. Jasnah having accepted Renarin for who he is regardless his upbringing and corrupted spren. Then Renarin accepting and loving Jasnah regardless their familial relationship or lack there of. I have theorized for awhile that Jasnah suffered from an untreated mild form of schizophrenia. Can’t wait to find out!
@22 Austin
LOL. I do agree it seems unlikely based on their interactions, but it also brings forward a very interesting alternative history. Not sure where I land on it. Very interesting to think on though!
@23 Wetlandernw
Without spoilers, I too have read the prologue pieces, and they make me excited for Rhythm of War all the more!
Thanks for the heads up regarding the beta, and good luck!
I llove this chapter for both Navani and Jasnah and for me I think it puts to rest any of the theories that Navani is just with Dalinar for political opportunism or what have you. Although it DOES hint that she has something in her past that may have made that a reasonable assumption at one time.
I frickin’ love Jasnah, that’s all I’ll say. :)
Gepeto – I actually do appreciate your concern here and I see where it’s coming from, especially when these types of behaviors become patterns (ESPECIALLY when alcoholism starts coming ito play). But I also think that it can be appropriate at times to feel anger, to acknowledge anger, but then to just make a decision to let it go, even if you are in the right if kepeing score, especially as she has reason to trust that her relationship with Dalinar is in fact mutually respectful. It may have been different with Gavilar.
@26: I will definitely keep my eyes open on whether or not Navani eventually chooses to express her feelings more freely or if she will automatically adopt the perspective which creates no conflict nor waves.
No relationship can ever be perfect and all partners will eventually disagree one with another, all partners will eventually feel anger towards either other either rightfully or not. Disagreement and anger are normal feelings which need to be expressed, not shut down.
Also, you do not solve a personal problem in expressing difficult emotions by removing all sources of conflicts. Hence, even if Dalinar does prove himself a more considerate husband than Gavilar, his behavior will still not erase the reasons why Navani seems to struggle at expressing anger nor her own feelings to others.
And this may be why she believes she shouldn’t be a ruler: how can you rule if you strive to accommodate everyone, to not create any waves? How can you rule the Alethi nation if you can’t put your fist on the table when it is needed to steer the boat in the right direction? Maybe there is no darkness in Navani, just an inability to push forward her ideas, just a firmly ingrained behavorial pattern which makes her bown down to others. Maybe that’s why she felt so useless back in Kholinar with the inept Queen. Maybe she did notice, but couldn’t act on her feelings due to her inability to speak her full mind nor to create conflict.
I mean, just maybe.
Scáth @14:
Doesn’t the whole WoR cover about 60 days? And Dalinar didn’t even send for Taln until about a third-way through? Yet in Lhan Interlude the decay at the royal court is already very pronounced and had been established for a while. The time-frame could barely allow for Navani to depart before things started to go noticeably downhill, but certainly not for Dalinar’s agent, whose name I have now remembered is Bordin. What is more, if Bordin was supposed to keep an eye on things for Dalinar, he should have had access to the palace, otherwise he would have been useless. Also, wasn’t there some discontent in the city tooby the time of the Lhan Interlude? I really hope that Book 4 kinda picks up on all of it – at the very least after what Kaladin witnessed re: Aesudan, they’d have a very good reason to question Bordin thoroughly. But then, they had the most excellent reason to question Rlain in OB about his people’s reasons for offing Gavilar and about their lore of the past, yet somehow it never occured to anybody, not even to Jasnah and to Dalinar, who have been trying to figure out what could have lead to the king’s assassination for years.
Was it explained how the painrial works, BTW? Does it store pain that it removes from a person? If so, is Navani suffering from some serious condition, to have been able to charge hers to such degree?
Gepeto:
I am with you about Navani not speaking up – though she does know about Dalinar’s returning memories at this point and the havoc that they play with him, so she probably has some idea about what could be going on with him. Also, that’s another example of how largely non-existent reaction to Jasnah’s alleged death back in WoR hurts the narrative. Yes, we have briefly seen Navani being sad, but we didn’t see Dalinar’s support, which is implied here. And Dalinar’s, Adolin’s and Ehlokar’s lack of reaction – even in their own thoughts for the PoVs – comes across as sociopathic, particularly since OB also shows that their relationships were closer than could be assumed back then.
Carl @20:
Navani says in WoK or WoR that she was alwaqys faithful to Gavilar, even though she had cause to be otherwise, so no.
@Gepeto
Yeah, I’m gonna have to go ahead and suggest that you might have created a fantastical misreading of Navani’s character based on your deep-seated (this does not mean unjustified, although it is clear that your ideals of relationship harmony do not necessarily match with those of other readers) dislike of her repression/suppression of her own emotions and concerns in the name of a greater need/good at this moment (i.e. keeping the coalition together and caring for the person she loves) and then universalized this to be a defining character trait.
This fails to account for all of the other times that we have already seen in which Navajo freely expressed her desires, wishes, and feelings without fear of (and in some cases in order to) create waves. The two that immediately jump to mind are: the Justice-glyph painting at the end of WoK and the whole arc of her convincing Dalinar to publicly court and marry her (giving the finger to Alethi society norms In the process). but then there is her forceful declaration to Sebarial and the group in this very chapter, and her work with the artifabrian community that could also fall into the same category
if you want to say that this is a characteristic of her intimate relationship with Dalinar, that is one thing that can be debated. But this fails the test of being a deep seated aspect of her character that influences every aspect of her life, including her capability to be queen. She chooses to express her feelings when she needs or wants to, and in other situations doesn’t let them affect her.
@28 Isilel
I can pull up the quotes, but from what I checked, when Shallan investigates Taln (which means he had already been discovered at Kholinar. Traveled to the Shattered Plains. Was put in the Insane Asylum. Discovered by Amaram, and Amaram visits him, prior to the shardblade subterfuge) all took place prior to Pai doing her rebellion. Navani traveled to the Shattered Plains as of Way of Kings, which is prior to Taln arriving at the Shattered Plains, which was prior to Pai rebelling. At least that is the order I read. Navani arrives to the Shatteredplains in Way of Kings. Taln arrives at Kholinar at the end of Way of Kings. Taln arrives at the Shattered Plains and is set up in the Insane Asylum and is interviewed by Dalinar, Elhokar, and then later Amaram. Then a few chapters later, Pai does her thing. So it seems to me Navani and Taln showing up to the Shattered Plains proceeded Pai by quite a bit.
I think the painrial causes pain. Navani stated how she had tested it on herself. If it worked in such a loop, then sticking herself with it would negate itself.
Dalinar apologized to Shallan if I recall correctly on Navani’s behalf explaining she needs time. I think (and I would need to check), but wasn’t there a scene or two where Dalinar holds Navani’s hand as Shallan leaves to give them time, and once Navani realizes someone sees, she pushes down her emotions to seem stoic? That we get her emotions through the epilogues with her beating herself up for letting her grief over Jasnah cloud her judgement preventing her from listening to the research of Shallan, which would have prevented the stormform from getting so far along potentially?
@29 Sillylovene
I agree.
edit: I did some digging for dates. a fan came up with a timeline. So it looks like it took a month for Taln to go from Kholinar to the Shattered Plains. If we assume that was travel time, then that means Navani left Kholinar 3 months prior to what happened with Pai. Taln left Kholinar 2 months prior to what happened with Pai. The everstorm came the week after Aesudan executed Pai. That is when the tailors say a darkness came over the palace. It was commented in Pai’s scene that no one starves, and no one even knew about the wasted food till the ardent revealed it to Pai. Pai’s problems were with the entire system on whole, including what was happening at the shattered plains. So it looks to me it only started to get as bad as it did within the last month or so. Then the everstorm came with ashterman and sja-anat to get things truly going.
Will now see about Navani grieving in WoR
So going over Words of Radiance again. Navani admonishes herself severely in the epigraphs. She blames herself and her grief for not speaking with Shallan, and giving Jasnah’s research its due. She blames herself for the Parsh, and etc. That she should have been committed and helped. As to the main portion of the book, when Shallan arrives, and goes to tell Navani what happened, Dalinar tries to shield Navani from it. Navani insists she is told right then and there. Dalinar rests a hand on her tenderly and continues to try and console/protect her. Shallan explains what happens, Navani gets upset and begins to take it out on Shallan. Dalinar stops it from happening, and gets Navani to take some space. He then apologizes for Navani (like she is doing for Dalinar now), and handles Shallan on her behalf with the betrothal. It is later mentioned how Dalinar tries to keep Navani by his side, officially for advice, but the reality (as per Adolin) is to protect her. Shallan arriving and speaking of Jasnah’s death is after Navani already began to court Dalinar and express her interest in him, so they were already close/romantic by this point. I think the reason things get confused is because you have the epigraphs speaking of Jasnah’s death from Navani’s perspective, before Navani was even told of it. So for some readers, the grief is not present as we already read of it earlier in the novel, and not when the death is revealed to her. We read the Navani’s grief from her journal, not from her. For some that does not work. For myself it did, but my intention is not to comment on that. Just commenting on how it may feel disjointed to some due to the juxtaposition.
I typed up the epigraph in full. That might help.
“To be perfectly frank, what has happened these last two months is upon my head. The death, destruction, loss, and pain are my burden. I should have seen it coming. And I should have stopped it. Our first clue was the Parshendi. Even weeks before they abandoned their pursuit of the gemhearts, their pattern of fighting changed. They lingered on the plateaus after battles, as if waiting for something. Soldiers reported being watched from afar by an unnerving number of Parshendi scouts. Then we noticed a new pattern of their penetrating close to the camps in the night and then quickly retreating. I can only surmise that our enemies were even then preparing their stratagem to end this war. The next clue came on the walls. I did not ignore this sign, but neither did I grasp its full implications. The sign on the wall proposed a greater danger, even, than its deadline. To foresee the future is of the Voidbringers. We had never considered that there might be Parshendi spies hiding among our slaves. This is something else I should have seen. I was unprepared for the grief my loss brought—like an unexpected rain—breaking from a clear sky and crashing down upon me. Gavilar’s death years ago was overwhelming, but this…this nearly crushed me. I seek not to use my grief as an excuse, but it is an explanation. People act strangely soon after encountering an unexpected loss. Though Jasnah had been away for some time, her loss was unexpected. I, like many, assumed her to be immortal. I wish to think that had I not been under sorrow’s thumb, I would have seen earlier the approaching dangers. Yet in all honesty, I’m not certain anything could have been done. But, understandably, we were focused on Sadeas. His betrayal was still fresh, and I saw its signs each day as I passed empty barracks and grieving widows. We knew that Sadeas would not simply rest upon his slaughters in pride. More was coming. Unfortunately, we fixated upon Sadeas’s plotting so much that we did not take note of the changed pattern of our enemies, the murderers of my husband, the true danger. I would like to know what wind brought about their sudden inexplicable transformation.”
Might as well include the death reveal:
Words of Radiance page 437
Navani had been smiling as Shallan approached, but now that levity was gone. She still had hope for her daughter, Shallan thought as the woman sat down in a nearby seat. I just crushed it.
“I thank you for bringing us this news” Brightlord Dalinar said “it is…. good to have confirmation”
It felt terrible. Not just to be reminded of the death, but to weight others down with it as well. “I have information for you “Shallan said, trying to be delicate. “About the things Jasnah was working on”
“More about those parshmen?” Navani snapped “Storms, that woman was too fascinated by them. Ever since she got it into her head that she was to blame for Gavilar’s death.”
“Her research can wait” Navani said, eyes fierce “I want to know exactly what happened when you think you saw her die. Precisely as you remember it, girl. No details passed over”
“Perhaps after the meeting…” Dalinar said, resting a hand on Navani’s shoulder. The touch was surprisingly tender. Was this not his brother’s wife? That look in his eyes; was that familial affection for his sister, or was it something more?
“No, Dalinar” Navani said “Now. I would here it now.”
“I woke up in the middle of the night to shouting and the smell of smoke. I opened my door to unfamiliar men crowded around the doorway to Jasnah’s cabin, across the campanionway from my own. They had her body on the floor, and…. Brightness, I watched them stab her through the heart. I’m sorry”
Navani tensed, head flinching, as if she’d been slapped.
“I heard the men yelling up above as they were being executed, one by one” Shallan said “I realized that the only hope I could give them was a crisis for the brigands, so I used the torch I’d taken and set the ship on fire”
“On fire?” Navani asked, horrified “With my daughter unconscious?”
“Navani-” Dalinar said, squeezing her shoulder.
“You doomed her” Navani said, locking eyes with Shallan “Jasnah wouldn’t have been able to swim, like the others. She-“
“Navani” Dalinar repeated, more firmly “This child’s choice was a good one. You can hardly expect her to have taken on a band of men single-handed. And what she saw….. Jasnah was not unconscious, Navani. It was too late to do anything for her at that point.”
The woman took a deep breath, obviously struggling to keep her emotions in check “I….apologize” she said to Shallan “I am not myself at the moment, and I stray toward the irrational. Thank…. thank you for bringing word to us” She stood “Excuse me”
After that she avoided Shallan. She in the epigraphs blames herself for things going pearshaped with the parsh because of it. Dalinar kept by her side, claiming it was for her advice, but Adolin stated it was to protect her.
oh and then there is the scene where Pattern spies on Navani and Dalinar before they go to the center of the shattered plains. Navani says how if Dalinar goes without her and dies, then she loses him, like she lost everyone else. Then Pattern makes noises hinting that Dalinar held her, and kissed her, etc to comfort her.
@28: Exactly, Navani does know about Dalinar’s returning memories, though he presumably hasn’t shared their content with her. I am however bothered by the fact she isn’t asking nor pressing the issue as, after all, watching your spouse waste himself in drunken stupor is considerably more taxing than just giving a grieving partner some personal space, especially when said spouse has a history of being able to waste years being drunk.
I find there is a lot more going on here which is unsaid than Navani merely being the supportive wife Dalinar needs. Dalinar isn’t just emotionally compromised: he is drunk, wasted, and unable to function. The fact Navani chooses to pass this under the silence speaks at length of her behavorial patterns, at least it does to me.
As for everyone’s reaction upon hearing Jasnah’s death… I think we can come up with a decent explanation.
Navani, so far, has been reacting to plights by shutting down, not talking, and going through her occupations. Mostly. When she hears about Jasnah dying, I thought the narrative did highlight how much of a toll the event took on her. She did eventually have a talk on the topic with Dalinar, asking him how he dealt with Evi’s death. I believe the lack of additional reactions can be explained by Navani never really being the focus of the narrative, hence her thought processes are not given much lamplight for us to scrutinize.
Elhokar hasn’t gotten any viewpoint nor much focus, especially not in WoR, so he might have grieved, he might have been sad, but we never got to see it.
Adolin presumably never had much of a relationship with Jasnah. He does mention being worried about her when her ship goes missing, but that’s all. The age difference means they never were playmates and the fact Adolin spent most of his childhood away in Jah Keved certainly did impact the cousin’s ability to bond. From Adolin’s perspective, Jasnah probably is nothing more than this distant cousin he seldom sees and has never really been interested in talking nor inter-acting with him in any other ways than to make sure he completed his lessons. In other words, the only relationship they have exist because they share a family, not because they have shared anything on a more personal level (as opposed to Jasnah/Renarin). Hence, his lack of reaction seems reasonable.
Dalinar is hard to explain. He has viewpoints. He has the focus. He does love Jasnah. He does have a valid significant relationship with her. All I can think of is Dalinar isn’t a man to dwindle on death unless he believes he is responsible for it. He clearly isn’t responsible for Jasnah’s death, so he just… moves on. Granted, that’s not a great explanation.
@29: Navani does think she is unsuited to be a Queen. She believes it would be a disaster if she were to be a Queen. She has her reasons. I offered what I thought could be an explanation based on my personal observations.
Yes, the fact that Navani doesn’t desire orthink she should be queen is clear in the text, but it also wasn’t the point of my post. The point was to debate or bring up points from the text pertinent to Navani’s characterization that stand in opposition to your proposed explanation. I hope I wasn’t overbearing or unclear in my writing.
@32: I don’t think you were being over-bearing, I was just unsure on how to respond nor which line of argumentation to push forward.
Basically, Navani has been a character with limited exposure, so far into the narrative, and her role has been to supplement Dalinar’s character arc. Still, we did get hints, in WoR, her relationship with Gavilar wasn’t exactly positive. She tells Dalinar how his brother was not always who he seemed to be just as she admits she hadn’t needed to mourn him. In other words, when Dalinar and Jasnah were crying over the Way of Kings, at Gavilar’s funeral, Navani was presumably relieved her husband was finally gone for good… Yikes.
There are also other hints such as this scene Dalinar recalls where Navani talks about fabrial research while Gavilar ignores her completely. Or Navani herself mentioning how she had been pushed to the side, at Kholinar, now her husband has died. So while it is true Navani has been assertive within some specific circumstances, it seems she has a history of being pushed to the side and allowing it to happen. She mentioned how, when it comes to fabrial research, she barely had a word to say, she merely was the eccentric old woman who founded the research, not the one who did it herself. Hence I would say the example can be used to push forward both argumentations…
Bottom line is, there aren’t a lot of arguments when it comes to Navani’s characterisation. Most readers will readily agree with this week’s commentary: Navani choosing to drop her anger is a sign of maturity. As a reader, I worry over her not being able to hold onto anger when Dalinar sinks, once more, in alcoholism, dropping all of his duties, while she isn’t given a minute to herself. I worry this is what happened with Gavilar, with Aesudan, and potentially with her children? Navani loves her kids, that much is obvious, but how come both seem so distant from her? It is obvious Jasnah loves her mother too. So why is it neither she nor Elhokar seem to have much of a relationship with Navani? What’s wrong with her?
That’s when I make all sorts of leap of logic to come up with my argumentation which really I can’t confirm nor infirm. I’ll just say I wanted to raise awareness on why Navani not being angry at Dalinar, not telling him she is angry at him, might tell us something which might end up being relevant to her character. And maybe this has something to do with why she thinks she’d be a terrible Queen. So yeah, that’s a lot of might and maybe.
This being said, I am also totally unsure how much of Navani we’ll read in RoW apart from the prologue. To be honest, she is the one regular viewpoint character I think we may no longer read as a regular viewpoint character mostly because she hasn’t gotten a narrative to call her own. She tends to be used as an alternate viewpoint to the Dalinar’s narrative and I am unsure how much of that we’ll read in the next book. Hence, for me, Navani is this “charcter to keep in mind who may or may not become more relevant who may or may not have more issues than we think”.
I hope this somehow clarifies my thoughts. I’ll admit I tend to scratch and see what else there might be for characters, sometimes I get it right, others times, well, not.
I like to picture Jasnah lecturing Navani taking place over several minutes, maybe with a few cutaways and cuts back.
@34 Kefka
LOL
@33 Gepeto
some good points on Navani’s
This shows the importance and productiveness of dialogue – make a point, receive counterpoint, synthesize new understanding and/or refine original points. :
Gepeto @@@@@33. I disagree with you regarding Navani’s role in SA to this date. I think you do Brandon a disservice that Navani only exists to supplement Dalinar’s arc. By that anology, Bridge 4 (sans Moash) exists to supplement Kaladin’s arc. I think Navani and Bridge 4 are part of Dalinar and Kaladin’s respective arcs; but they have other purposes. I think they are meant to show different types of character growth. Navani’s relationship is important to Adolin and Jasnah’s character arc as well. Whether it is Navani giving advice to Adolin or Navani discussing her past interactions with Jasnah with other characters, she helps give Adolin and Jasnah greater personality and character depth.
In my opinion, Jasnah is the mother figure to most of the main characters (with the exception of Dalinar, whom she is married to). She already is a mother figure to Adolin, Renarin and a mother to Jasnah. She will be the grandmother/mother to Elhokar’s son. At the end of WoR and in OB, we saw scenes where Jasnah mothered Shallan. I think this will only grow in importance. In some ways, Dalinar will be the Honor to this generation of Roshar and Navani will be the Cultivation to this generation. I think there are hints that at one point, Honor and Cultivation worked together. Honor was a father type figure and Cultivation was a mother type figure.
I think that in the next two books, Navani will grow more into this role.
I also disagree that just because she did not mourn Gavilar and openly cry, meant she was glad that he was dead. Yes, there are hints their marriage was not perfect. But, I think that is a far leap to say that she is relieved Gavilar is dead. First, I do not think of her as that callous a person. Second, I think she believed (at least at some point in her life) in the dream that Gavilar had for Alethkar. As I believe that dream had yet to be fully realized at the time Szeth killed Gavilar, I do not think she would welcome Gavilar’s death when it occurred.
@@@@@ Several above. Maybe I am not thinking deep enough on this subject, but I think Navani’s reluctance to be the sovereign monarch is because she views being a sovereign monarch of a Vorin kingdom as a violation of Vorinism. It is a man’s role to sit on the throne. A woman can provide advice and guidance, but should not sit on the throne. She can accept woman as the sovereign monarchs in those non-Vorin kingdoms. Despite being the daughter of someone who many considers a heretic and who herself does not feel beholden to the traditional roles that Vorinism has placed on women and the husband of the a man the Vorin Church excommunicated, I think Navani still believes in the tenants of the Vorin Church, including that men and women have defined roles.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@36: Welcome!
@37: The reason I stated Navani’s role was to supplement Dalinar’s arc is the fact her character currently does not seem to have a narrative of her own. She pops into the narrative, shows an alternate view on events, presents her fabrials, but her goals as a character do not currently seem to exceed those purposes. Hence, I am dubious Navani’s role will expend much from what we have seen.
This does not mean Navani’s character cannot have any meaningful interactions with other characters, it only means her character hasn’t gotten her own personal set of goals. Or this is how I have seen it. It doesn’t mean she won’t get them in the next book, but I am doubtful about this given the number of new characters we are now following.
Of course, other readers can have a different perspective than I do, but my two cents are Navani will remain as an occasional viewpoint character. Going into RoW, I do not expect her to be one of the nine viewpoint characters, I expect her to be an occasional viewpoint character, with her prologue and maybe one or two additional chapters. I could be wrong, but those are my guesses so far. Well, this is how I have placed her in my personal RoW outline… I mean, we all got one of those, now don’t we all?
Navani asks Dalinar in WoR how he managed to grief for Evi. Dalinar tells her she ought to know she since griefed for Gavilar. Navani then implies she never griefed for Gavilar. That’s why I stated she did not cry when he died, but granted I might have pushed the interpretation too far. We should probably check the extract: my memory might not be accurate, but at the time, I did read it as Navani was not sad at all Gavilar was dead.
Interesting take on why Navani doesn’t want to be Queen, but why then would she think it would be a disaster, not if a woman takes control, but her specifically? This being said, she does sound rather devoid, so maybe you are onto something.
well in the way of kings she told Dalinar she never cheated on Gavilar, although she had many opportunities, i dont think she lied there, she has already changed from her past self at this point. We “know” about Jasnahs “insanity”, whatever it was, but it seems like they locked her away in one of these dark cells, maybe she is feeling guilty about that.
Hoid told Jasnah, why the radiant abandoned their oaths, thats revealed in her conversation with Ivory. I guess she knew, that the dawnchant could reveal something about that.
Ever since the oathbringer epilogue im pretty terrified by him. Maybe its just because its from Eshonais viewpoint, but he doesnt only look like a religious fanatic like Amaram, but like a, sort of, maniac.
@37 AndrewHB
I agree, I think we will see more of Navani, and certainly more of her as the fabrial science builds. There is also the prevailing theory that she will become a bondsmith and bond the Sibling. That has gotten a lot of following.
I agree she did mourn Gavilar. In the same epigraph where she mourns Jasnah, she stated she mourned Gavilar.
“This is something else I should have seen. I was unprepared for the grief my loss brought—like an unexpected rain—breaking from a clear sky and crashing down upon me. Gavilar’s death years ago was overwhelming, but this…this nearly crushed me. I seek not to use my grief as an excuse, but it is an explanation. “
I personally disagree that she is hesitant because she feels a woman should not be king, I am still clinging to my own thoughts being that she likes being more the adviser, than the central person. I think she thinks it would be too much pressure. But that is just my own thoughts on it.
As to Navani’s religious inclinations/beliefs, Brandon confirmed she is orthodox.
geoffw35
You have Jasnah give such a good argument for the atheist point of view that I thought, well Brandon is probably an atheist (as I am). Then I started watching your writing class videos. Oops! In one of them you say that you feel you can successfully draw an atheist character. I certainly agree. ;-) Jasnah does seem to lack compassion to some degree, but I insist that religion is not necessary for one to be compassionate. You draw characters wonderfully!
Brandon Sanderson
Kaladin is agnostic, which most people miss in these discussions, and is the series argument for a compassionate non-believer. Dalinar is a liberal theist, and Navani an orthodox theist.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/182/#e3860
Scáth @30:
I never had any issue with Navani’s amount of grieving for Jasnah (Ehlokar is another matter), though you are right that I kinda tended to discount the epigraphs that go even more into the depth of her feelings. My problem always was the lack of reaction in Dalinar’s and Adolin’s PoV’s and Ehlokar’s behavior – you’d think, given his paranoia and the real attempts on his life, that he’d have been visibly affected by and commented on his sister being assassinated, even if he didn’t much care for her – which is why we also didn’t see the equivalent amount of support for Navani from Dalinar to what she provides to him in OB. Yes, there are some hints from Shallan’s PoV.
The issue with Navani suppressing her anger and her own very real fears for her son and grandson and shouldering Dalinar’s responsibilities in the OB chapter under discussion is the fact that Navani seems to have previously fallen into an unhealthy pattern with Gavilar (and possibly Ehlokar/Aesudan), where this became the permanent state of things. And it is something that often gets imposed on/expected from women and was basically the norm historically. Gepeto eloquently explained why this might be a cause of concern and there is little for me to add.
Anyway, this quote “our enemies, the murderers of my husband” that you provided reminds me again how implausible it is that after trying to puzze out for so long the causes of Gavilar’s death and agonizing over it, nobody bothered to ask Rlain, who was right there, literally in front of them on occasion, the reason for assassination. I understand that they were facing world-shaking problems, but people don’t just completely forget something that they have obssessed over for 6 years!
Or and speaking of Bordin – did he just dissolve into the thin air? Because shouldn’t he have been the logical person to entrust with the investigation of Sadeas’s murder or at least to have him assisst Adolin with the same? And if he immediately returned to Kholinar, shouldn’t he have been the first person whom Our Heroes tried to contact there?
I also still think that the situation in the palace shown in the Lhan Interlude needed at least several months to develop and that Bordin if at all competent/loyal, should have had some concerns about Aesudan’s governance and mentioned them to Dalinar.
Gepeto:
We learned in OB that Jasnah had an active role in Adolin’s education and I’d think that her relationship with Renarin would have also made Adolin to regard her fondly, given his protectiveness towards his younger brother. And you said it yourself – Adolin worried about Jasnah in his PoV, occasionally mentioned her and then when she “died” – had zero reaction to it? This felt unnatural to me. Dalinar is completely inexplicable. Ditto Ehlokar. But I have kicked that dead horse enough, methinks.
Concerning Navani’s role in RoW, I remember a WoB that early on Sanderson considered her as the flashback PoV for the the 4th book, so I expect her to have a couple of chapters apart from the prologue in it. Sure, a most of what he intends to reveal will come from Venli and Eshonai, but some insights into Gavilar/Alethi will have to come from Navani. And also, making Urithiru work will continue to be a an important issue.
Re: Navani’s faith, she has no problem with Fen or with Almighty being deaD;
@41: To the risk of repeating myself, I wanted to add I am not arguing Dalinar personally asked anything specific out of Navani nor that he necessarily would had she spoken up. I was instead pointing how I felt Navani naturally sinks into the role of supporting her drunk husband, picking up the broken bottles he leaves behind him, while shutting down all thoughts of confronting him on the issue. I thought perhaps this told us something about Navani, as an individual, though I also agree these are thin basis to use for character analysis.
As for beating dead-horses: I have beaten my own share of dead horses, so I do understand how you feel about the relationship issue. I unfortunately do not have more water to bring to the mill, I can only offer what I believe is a reasonable explanation for, at the very least, Adolin’s behavior.
It may be, despite knowing Jasnash did have a hand in raising him, the cousins weren’t particularly close. I can see it happening in the context where Jasnah merely was this older cousin who told Adolin to go study this or that while not hiding the fact she thoughts he wasn’t intelligent enough to her personal tastes. Jasnah does, afterall, suggests Shallan as a casual not only to help Shallan, but also because she believes Adolin needed an “intelligent” wife to support him which can be interpreted as Jasnah not thinking highly of Adolin’s mental prowesses either rightly or wrongly.
Or it may merely be Jasnah hasn’t been involved all that much after all. She was a famous researcher travelling around the world for most of Adolin’s teenage years and before, he spent most of his in Jah Keved, away from Kholinar and Jasnah. I always thought it wasn’t unreasonable to assume both cousin merely didn’t have much of a relationship outside blood ties which would explain why Adolin, a recurrent viewpoint character, seemed not too affectd by Jasnah’s loss even if he sounds please by her return. I took it as the reaction you’d expect out of people upon learning this cousin they see once or twice a year has passed away: a bit of sadness, but nothing overwhelming.
We definitely see Adolin being more affected by Elhokar’s death which also makes sense given he seemed “closer” or, at the very least, they seem to interact one with another.
I agree about Dalinar, but I think we might not have seen much from Elhokar nor because he had no reaction, more because he isn’t exactly a main character nor a viewpoint one. I bet if we asked Brandon, he’d told us Elhokar grieved and so on even if we didn’t get to read it in the books.
On RoW: So many narrative elements changed in between Brandon’s initial planning and now, I tend to no longer take note of those his old now discarded ideas. So while it is true, once upon a time, Brandon had planned for Navani to presumably take on a bigger role, it may be he has changed his mind.
When it comes to Navani, I noticed how, she seemed not to have an actual character arc. Sure, she has relationships with other characters, sure she has her research, but in terms of internal conflict, she doesn’t seem to have any. This chapter is the only one where we witness Navani having an emotional reaction which may indicate more, but she shuts it down immediately and the most agreed upon interpretation remains it matters not. Granted, I am not asking other readers to adopt my perspective, but my impressions currently are Navani’s role will remain, both in scope and in size, equivalent to what we have seen within the past books or less.
Going into RoW, we do know we have 9 viewpoint characters. We do know they are separated in between three groups. We do know two of the first group characters only have one or two viewpoints, one may not even have any at all. So that’s 7 characters who get actual viewpoints + occasional viewpoint characters which will pop in and out of the narrative.
For Navani, my rational is, so far, she has mostly co-existed within Dalinar’s narrative. Mostly. Going into RoW, it thus seems reasonable to assume her arc will be partly joined with Dalinar. However knowing Dalinar is having a smaller role, it does seem to imply Navani too will be less present.
Also, going through the list of 7 characters (I am excluding the two minor characters from the first group), I find there might not be a spot for Navani which would make sense since she has the prologue.
But your guesses are as good as mine, honestly. I am just saying things as I am viewing it, I could be totally wrong.
Good comment on Navani’s faith.
@41 Isilel
Well I there is a myriad of reasons:
1. Jasnah has people trying to kill her for some time. the assassination attempt would hardly be revolutionary. It succeeding is what was different
2. Dalinar at that point declared he was gunning for the highprinces. Elhokar says himself that Dalinar will get them all killed from assassins. So at that point they all overtly agree there will be assassination attempts, before Jasnah “passed”. Elhokar pointing that out regarding Jasnah would be redundant to me.
3. We have WoB that Jasnah and Elhokar held each other with distant respect. Elhokar felt inferior next to her. It is part of the reason she left. To give him one less shadow to live under (the other being Gavilar)(her leaving also being 6 years ago when they decide to go to the shattered plains. otherwise Dalinar remarked on numerous occasions how he always liked Jasnah being near by to rely on and look after the boys. it is why he wished she would go to the shattered plains, as it would make him feel better knowing Jasnah could watch over Adolin as he took over the princedom)
4. Personally I think if the narrative had focused on Adolin’s grief over Jasnah, it would have taken away from Navani’s, who was her mother, and as I said, we do see in the epigraphs
As mentioned multiple times across the novels, the Alethi do not do outward signs of affection. Shallan was taken aback at how tender Dalinar resting a hand on Navani’s shoulder was. Given most of the time we see the pair, they have multiple people around, it seems plausible to me that we would not see a public display of affection. That Pattern (the spren) shows this, and it makes Shallan uncomfortable calls that even more to fore, and shows it does in fact happen. I personally think it makes sense, that Dalinar would comfort Navani behind closed doors and be there for her then, and because of Pattern (the spren) we know it does in fact happen.
Other posters have already pointed out that:
A. Navani painted the justice glyph
B. Stood up to Dalinar regarding her feelings for him
C. Told off Ialai multiple times
D. Was honest with her feelings towards Elhokar’s rulership to Dalinar
E. Told off Sebarial (as evidenced in this chapter)
F. Told off Dalinar regarding Shallan going to the Shattered Plains and endangering Shallan’s life (only backing down when Shallan stated it was not Navani’s choice in the matter, but Shallan’s.
G. Her getting upset at Shallan upon learning of Jasnah’s death
So the pattern to me looks like a woman who is intelligent and willing to speak her mind. But others are more than welcome to read into things however they wish.
That is news to me. Rlain was present at Gavilar’s death? I do not recall that ever being mentioned. Could you point me to where it mentions that in the books, or WoB?
Dalinar selected Adolin as a gesture of good faith, to show he was taking the murder investigation seriously. He couldn’t do it himself because he was busy with the Coalition, and he was suspect himself. Putting it on a lower officer with seem like being dismissive and insulting. Dalinar said it himself that it had to be Adolin for that reason. As to Bordin returning to Kholinar, when? I do not recall an opportunity where he would.
As to Bordin, based on the number crunching, he left 2 months before, which meets the low threshold of several. Lhan comments on how no one knows about what is happening to the food. it should be going to the Shattered Plains if I recall correctly, but it does not because they have gemstones to produce the food. That is why Lhan said Pai could then direct the food to the poor and feed them. Pai was shocked. She had no idea. She had an issue with the whole war to begin with which is why she began protesting the queen. The war effort that Bordin would have no problem with as per his orders. Basically I am saying from what I have read, Aesudean’s rulership had all the outside hallmarks of being stable. We just got to see the acceleration on screen largely triggered by Pai.
As to Navani’s faith, Jasnah is an atheist but is fine with Dalinar being a theist, why should Navani have a problem with Dalinar. They have different beliefs. It makes sense for Kadash to, because he is an ardent in the religion that he feels Dalinar is blaspheming. But it would be the equivalency of lets say me being Catholic, and my wife deciding she wanted to be Buddhist. In my mind if I really love her, then I would respect her life choices and support her. Even if they are different than my own religious beliefs. Navani may belief in traditional Vorin beliefs, but that does not mean she is a zealot who will condemn anyone who differs from her.
I tried not to knowingly harm any dead equines in this posting!
Gepeto @42:
My position re: Navani’s PoVs in RoW is based on the many hints in recent-ish WoBs that we will finally learn about what Gavilar was up to, and for that her input would be needed. So, I expect the same amount of content for her as she had in OB + the prologue. IMHO, Gavilar’s own prologue in book 5 will cross the t’s and dot the i’s, but it will be the ultimate conclusion of this mystery. The 5th book itself will have enough other stuff to deal with.
As to Navani’s arc – isn’t it a bit artificial for every character to have a clear foreground arc pretty much concurrently? I mean, character development and change from young to old Navani can be reconstructed, IMHO, and the remaining volumes of the first sub-series will only add to it.
I am curious, though, if in that early plan of Sanderson’s where Navani had the book 4 flashbacks _she_ was supposed to become the first new Willshaper?
Scáth @43:
I completely disagree with the notion that Adolin and Dalinar displaying grief for Jasnah and shock at her death* would have taken anything from Navani’s mourning. Nor did it need to take much space – a couple of sentences in each of their thoughts and some utterance from Ehlokar would have been sufficent and felt much more natural. That’s pretty much how Shallan’s grief was conveyed and it was very effective. YMMV.
*I don’t think that any of Jasnah’s family members and especially not the men actually know about the many previous attempts on her life.
Concerning Rlain – he was right there in Urithiru in OB, in front of Dalinar and Navani and later in part 2 concurrently with Jasnah. He may not have been in Kholinar during the fateful treaty signing, but don’t you think that the normal Listeners were offered some explanation as to why the Council chose to treacherously embroil all their people in a catastrophic war? Yet nobody bothered to ask him, it seems, after some of them agonizing for 6 years over the reasons for Gavilar’s assassination.
Regarding Navani’s religion – I was pressed for time yesterday, but the news that Almighty was dead, killed by his enemy and anti-thesis should have been huge for all the non-agnostic Vorins. Imagine how it would have been for the followers of Abrahamic religions iRL, even the perfunctory/lapsed ones if one of the Archangels (the Stormfather occupies a similar position on Roshar) appeared and said that the God had been killed by the Devil?! This goes far beyond “different beliefs”, it should have shattered people’s whole worldviews. Yet, even the allegedly devout Vorins like Navani and Shallan were completely unfazed by this news. Kadash is the only one(!!!) who appears to struggle with these cataclysmic revelations. I really, really hope that it was due to the somewhat awkward compartimentalization of different issues into different volumes of the saga, because that’s not how humans behave.
What I wanted to say about Fen is that it is a bit odd that governance is supposed to be a “masculine art” in Vorinism and Thaylenah likes to present itself as Vorin, yet they _elected_ a woman to be their head of state. And none of the other Vorin rulers/nobles comments on how improper that is/should be.
Re: Bordin – he was supposedly an experienced agent, so even if Dalinar felt that he had to entrust Sadeas’s murder investigation to a person of high enough rank for the sake of appearances, it still doesn’t make sense that Bordin wasn’t ordered to either assist Adolin or to investigate secretly on his own. Given that Dalinar actually wanted to get to the bottom of it and Adolin had no background in sleuthing/intelligence work whatsoever.
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Bordin’s performance as Dalinar’s representative in Kholinar.
@44: I think we could ask ten different readers for their interpretation of Brandon’s words and we could end up getting 10 different ones… My rational is 6 out of the 9 viewpoint characters in RoW are easy to fill-in (then again, ask another reader and this reader will have a completely different opinion). The 2 with only interludes or one chapter will probably go to new characters, I was thinking Lirin and/or Rlain, I could be wrong, but Brandon was very specific, groups are separated by locations, so I had to pick characters who had reasons to be… in the same location. This would leave only one spot open for either Navani or Jasnah.
I will admit I have left out characters such as Lift, Renarin, and Szeth out of the planning. Brandon said not to expect a lot of Renarin nor Szeth in RoW. Lift, I suspect, will have about the same as in OB and this same hasn’t been enough for her to “count” as one of the main viewpoint characters, yet.
Hence, for me, it was in between Navani and Jasnah. I’ll admit I picked Jasnah over Navani because I felt she had the better story to tell and the more important role to fulfil, but I could be wrong and it is the reverse. I will also admit I was reluctant to think Brandon might have pushed back Jasnah, but not Navani thought maybe he did. Or maybe I am wrong about another character and both are into the planning.
This being said, the story behind Gavilar does not need Navani’s personal viewpoints to be unraveled. We could read it through either Dalinar or Jasnah’s viewpoints with Navani serving as the occasional viewpoint. We could read Dalinar or Jasnah listening to Navani re-tell it. Also, Dalinar being in the background for this book basically confirms, as far as my personal interpretation goes, Navani will be less present, both in viewpoint and in third-person’s perspective. I mean, if Dalinar has a small role and doesn’t pop all too often in the book, then Navani is likely to follow, IMHO which would mean less of her, overall than in OB where we saw more of her due to the focus being set on Dalinar. Of course, this is pure speculations, other readers read the same WoBs entirely differently.
On character growth: If Brandon wants to write a more fleshed out narrative featuring Navani as a focus character, than I am all up for it. This week, I pointed out what I believed could be an avenue to explore with her character I would personally find interesting to read about.
My point however was Navani hasn’t, so far, gotten a real dedicated narrative completed with character goals and endeavors, unlike other characters. Given this, I figured it is either Brandon gives her those goals now and pushes her forward or he gets on using her as a supplement character to the overall narrative, the occasional viewpoint serving to either enhance Dalinar’s arc or provide the readers data on fabrials.
I don’t think it is artificial… I mean, the point of reading characters is to watch them grow, right? And growth can happen on young and old characters alike, it can take many forms, but it usually takes root into a conflict. Sources of conflict can be various. For instance, had Navani chosen to be angry at Dalinar and to question herself on whether or not she might have gotten into yet another unhappy relationship or if “supporting Dalinar” meant she had to “once again” push back her interest in research, then we might have our hands on an interesting Navani-centered narrative where she asks herself what she wants more for herself and what she is willing to sacrifice for to obtain it. Is she willing to make the same choices she made for Gavilar? Does actually loving Dalinar change anything? Or was it she did love Gavilar once and she is wary of her love for Dalinar fearing it will end up the same as with Gavilar?
This could be an interesting avenue to explore with Navani and it would tie into Dalinar’s own narrative in having him starting to realize people will not always be there to pick up his mess, nor will they always be there waiting for him to “get better”. In between the moment he starts and stops drinking, it could be other people chose to live their life, away from him. Using Navani here could have worked, but it would have broken up a relationship readers love to read, so maybe that’s not a good idea after all.
I don’t know what Brandon’s initial plans are. I do know we, the readers, tend to over-state the narrative importance of the flashback characters (Eshonai for instance). Recent WoB on Szeth indicate being a flashback character doesn’t guarantee a large role in the actual narrative, so Brandon might have planned for Navani to have flashbacks, probably to tell the Gavilar story, without necessarily needing her to have a bigger present-day role. Other characters, without flashbacks, could end up having bigger more detailed narratives than some flashback characters. Brandon might also have changed his mind when realizing he could tell the same tale through other means than the flashbacks as, after all, those aren’t the only way to re-tell a pass story.
I don’t know if Navani will become a Radiant or not. I know she is a popular pick. I would think it is likely she does become one, but even if she does, this still does not necessarily equate with more page time. I mean, it is hard to know what Brandon plans or has planned, all I can say is Brandon seems to prioritize the characters having “unresolved past issues” over the other ones, so Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar though realistically neither Shallan nor Dalinar will get a super large narrative in RoW.
I agree showing grief does not consume page time. A good example is how Brandon managed to show Renarin’s fears and worries over Adolin, in OB, without ever needing to write his viewpoints. He also managed to write Renarin’s palpable relief when Adolin came back and shocked at seeing him hurt still without using his viewpoints, so yes, Brandon could have easily wrote grief for both Dalinar and Adolin had he want to without taking too much page time.
This is why I was thinking the fact he didn’t must tell us something about those two characters. My guesses remain the same: Adolin wasn’t close to Jasnah so while sad he did not need to mourn her, Dalinar was probably sad but he turned the page rapidly on it just as he always does when people end up dead. I mean, Dalinar doesn’t waste time thinking about the men he lost at the Tower, Adolin and Kaladin do, but not Dalinar. So this may be the reason.
I agree it wouldn’t have taken anything away from Navani’s grief which wasn’t a big plot point anyway.
Dalinar gave Adolin the role to investiguate because he wanted to appear serious about Sadeas murder. What he failed to notice is it gave the complete opposite reaction, the Sadeas princedom ended up believing Dalinar had something to hide instead. Bordin might not have been available.
@44 Isilel
You know what? You are right. We are beating a dead horse. At the end of the day, these things didn’t work for you. They did for me and I said why. I am sorry to say, but I don’t think you will be able to convince me. So I wish you luck with your thoughts.
As to the chapter at hand, I will say I definitely enjoyed how this chapter showed Navani’s strength in handling the coalition during a crisis. It really brought to fore her intelligence, and political deftness. One can see where Jasnah gets her intelligence and iron will.