CBS has announced that it has handed down a straight-to-series order for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, its third live-action Star Trek series for its streaming platform, CBS All Access.
The show will feature Ethan Peck as Science Officer Spock, Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike, Rebecca Romijn as Number One, all of whom are reprising their roles from the latest season of Star Trek: Discovery.
According to CBS, the series will follow the trio “in the decade before Captain Kirk boarded the U.S.S. Enterprise, as they explore new worlds around the galaxy.”
The series joins the growing number of Star Trek projects on CBS All Access. Star Trek: Discovery launched in 2017 and returned for a second season in 2019, while Star Trek: Picard debuted earlier this year. Both shows have additional seasons coming up: Discovery’s third season is expected to debut sometime this year, while Picard has been renewed for a second season. In addition to the live-action shows, an animated series called Star Trek: Lower Decks is coming sometime this year (there’s also a Nickelodeon animated series coming). The network is also developing a series called Star Trek: Section 31, based on Michelle Yeoh’s mirror-universe character Philippa Georgiou.
CBS cited the popularity of the characters from fans as a reason for launching the series. “These iconic characters have a deep history in ‘Star Trek’ canon, yet so much of their stories have yet to be told. With Akiva and Henry at the helm, the Enterprise, its crew and its fans are in for an extraordinary journey to new frontiers in the ‘Star Trek’ universe.”
CBS did not say when the series would debut on the platform.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds will fill a somewhat familiar gap between Discovery, and The Original Series. While Discovery is set years prior to TOS, many fans pointed out that the look and feel of the costumes and sets didn’t really line up with the series it was setting up. Presumably, this show will help narrow that gap a bit.
Returning to the U.S.S. Enterprise and its crew should serve as a new entry point for new fans of the franchise, as well as a familiar return for longtime fans of the franchise.
About fucking time.
It honestly only would’ve been news if they didn’t do a series with those three. I mean, c’mon….
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
This could be tricky. While Pike and Number One are relative blank slates, we know so much about Spock’s personality and growth from TOS that it would constrain what this show could do with him without overlapping or conflicting with his development there.
“While Discovery is set years prior to TOS, many fans pointed out that the look and feel of the costumes and sets didn’t really line up with the series it was setting up. Presumably, this show will help narrow that gap a bit.”
That shouldn’t matter, any more than it matters that Robin Curtis doesn’t look the same as Kirstie Alley or that John Byrne’s Superman doesn’t look exactly like Curt Swan’s Superman. It’s not wrong for different artistic interpretations of a fictional entity to portray its visuals differently — especially if one is made more than half a century after the other and can create a more credible depiction of future technology.
The makers of TOS didn’t want it to look like it was made in the 1960s. They wanted it to look like the distant future, but could only approximate that so much with the resources they had. They would’ve been delighted to know that later interpretations of their creation would come closer to the futuristic look they aspired to. So the new show absolutely should NOT “narrow the gap” between modern designs and 1964 designs. That would be absurd. The gap that should be narrowed is between modern designs and 2250s designs. Star Trek was created to go forward, not backward.
By the same token, I hope this show doesn’t try too hard to recreate the supporting cast of “The Cage.” I’d be glad to see Dr. Boyce included, but the pilot’s crew beyond the core foursome was kind of bland, not to mention being all-white. That’s part of the reason NBC rejected the first pilot, because the characters were not as diverse or interesting as they’d wanted. Since this show is presumably set after Discovery season 2, that would make it a few years after “The Cage,” which should allow for some personnel changes and a richer cast.
@2 – I have to agree about the bridge crew from the Cage. I rewatched the two-parter after finishing Discovery Season 2 a couple of weeks ago — and even in that short time span, I can’t remember a single thing about the supporting characters, other than “the blond guy had as many lines as Spock did.” Whenever I think of The Menagerie, I think of Pike, Spock, Number One, and Boyce. I’m hoping they cast a Boyce who is able to fill John Hoyt’s shoes as capably as Mount, Peck and Romjin fill Jeffrey Hunter, Leonard Nimoy and Majel Barrett’s.
It would have to be a limited offering. Say, a two season show. At some point, the timeline will catch up to the Original Series. Even if the show sticks with Pike and Number One, we’d lose both Spock and the Enterprise in the narrative.
And I imagine a series finale would have to deal with the big elephant in the room: Pike’s sacrifice that renders him permanently paralyzed.
And while Colt and Tyler are replaceable, I’d definitely welcome back Boyce, at least for an occasional appearance as Pike’s friend, confidant and mentor. After all, he was already on the older side in the events of The Cage.
Yah! I’m doing a Kermit here!
@3/Talekyn: “I’m hoping they cast a Boyce who is able to fill John Hoyt’s shoes as capably as Mount, Peck and Romjin fill Jeffrey Hunter, Leonard Nimoy and Majel Barrett’s.”
I’ve been trying to think of candidates, but I’m blanking. Who are some current actors that resemble Hoyt?
@4/Eduardo: “At some point, the timeline will catch up to the Original Series.”
Not anytime soon. Discovery season 2 ended in early 2258, and “Where No Man Has Gone Before” is in 2265. So they could have a good 6-7 years before Pike becomes fleet captain.
@@.-@ & @6
Assuming they even did one year = one season. If they slow it down a little, a year could take multiple seasons to cover, and they wouldn’t ever catch up to Kirk’s arrival before the show ended.
@6 CLB I don’t know that he resembles Hoyt much but he’s a good actor and an appropriate age:
Lance Henriksen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Henriksen
Maybe even better, Terry O’Quinn?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_O%27Quinn
@remremulo: Of the two, I think Henriksen’s a closer fit.
Love the title. Fingers crossed for a more episodic, what-if of the week.
As for Boyce, I could see John Slattery in the role.
FINALLY!
Second good news of 2020. The first good news was the husband getting a job offer today.
Yay for Pike Trek.
No more prequels. Ever. Stories should move forward.
-An Anonymous Nerd
Someone on Twitter joked that 55 years later, the Captain Pike pilot has finally gone to series.
Am I the only person that wants an off-hand meeting between Rebecca Romijn’s Number One and a young biologist (not yet nurse), also played by Rebecca Romijn? At the very least, it would be a cute in-joke. This was the best news I could have hoped for today. This is a great cast and they were some of the highlights of Discovery Season 2.
One sad bit is that it still doesn’t work out to have any of the ST:Enterprise characters make cameos, except perhaps T’Pol. That show ended in 2155 and even allowing for the characters to have aged in the last 15 years, would still only put them around 2205, a good fifty years before this show would take place.
At the very least, they should have Number One be the model for a new computer voice.
You know if you’re wedded to a serialized or arc format it would be possible to center each season of the survey of a new planet. It doesn’t have to be about galaxy spanning disasters.
Wow, wow, wow! This is like a Christmas miracle! That’s how excited I am.
Ideally, I’d like to see the jumping off point for the series to basically be “Q & A” because then we have the opportunity to see the more emotional/shouts/smiley Spock that would evolve to become the more emotionally reserved Spock from TOS. However, I get that could be problematic because then you would presumably have to fast forward through the events of “The Cage” and Discovery – Season 2, because why do them all over again? So I guess post Discovery is the way to go.
I hope the rest of the main cast end up being very interesting characters. There are so many different directions the writers can go in. Maybe finally an Andorian or a Tellarite or Orion senior officer?
It’s finally happened!
I’ll second that “About fucking time”, krad.
I’ve, well, we’ve been waiting patiently since the end of Discovery season 2. Since Discovery has boldly gone to the distant future, I’m glad we’ll get to stay on the Enterprise in the Pike era!
@11/JF: John Slattery would be a good fit for Boyce, but I’m hoping Boyce has retired by this point, and Tyler (Jose, not Ash) has transferred off the Enterprise, to make way for more diverse and interesting casting choices. So many possibilities…
@19
Sure, that could be an angle to introduce the series, with Boyce retiring and we’re following the new doctor around the ship.
A couple of comments:
1) On the difference in “look” and “feel” of the shows like Discovery vis a vis TOS. Its all good when you consider that Discovery has been an alternate universe since the beginning.
2) Anson Mount with a beard is dreamy.
@21/ragnar: No, it hasn’t. By that logic, everything since TMP has been in an alternate universe from TOS (and there were viewers at the time who assumed it was, just as some viewers have insisted the same about every new Trek production ever).
Do we really need to see a shish-kabobed officer?
Glad to hear they decided not to waste Anson Mount. He was more convincing in his role than any of the other characters we’ve seen on Discovery, IMO.
@2 “This could be tricky. While Pike and Number One are relative blank slates, we know so much about Spock’s personality and growth from TOS that it would constrain what this show could do with him without overlapping or conflicting with his development there.”
That’s what retcons are for. James R Kirk, Earth ship -> UESPA ->.Starfleet, “Only Earth ship to visit Talos IV” -> Discovery had Burnham revisit Talos IV, “Invisibility is theoretical” -> The Klingons had a cloak on Discovery, “Time travel is theoretical” – -> Spock’s own sister had a time travel suit, “Memory Alpha contains the sum of Federation knowledge” -> Burnham’s Red Angel suit had the same thing, “Delta Vega is a remote planet” -> Delta Vega is in the Vulcan system
Trek is full of retcons.
p.s.
We’ve already seen Yeoman Colt.
INTERVIEW: Diving Into STAR TREK: DISCOVERY’s Finale with Season 3 Co-Showrunner Michelle Paradise
TREKCORE: There was an actor credited as ‘Yeoman Colt’ in Part 1, a character from “The Cage” – the original episode with Captain Pike – but she wasn’t called out by name that we noticed. Was she in a scene that ended up being cut, or…
PARADISE: No, she was one of the Enterprise bridge crew. We had Lt. Mann, Lt. Nicola, Lt. Amin, and Yeoman Colt.
TREKCORE: Was she the alien character with the spiked face? In the original pilot, she was a human…
PARADISE: Yes, I believe that was her. Amin was at the helm, Mann and Nicola was a bit further back, so yes, that would have been Yeoman Colt.
http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/04/interview-star-trek-discovery-season-finale-michelle-paradise/
I’m cautiously optimistic about this.
I’m not quite crazy about another outing back to the 23rd Century. I still think the franchise needs to keep pushing forward instead of looking back to the past (which is why I’ve been delighted by Picard moving the canon into the 25th Century). And as CLB pointed out, Spock is the other big concern given they’re constrained by canon and his development across TOS and the movies.
But at the same time, Anson Mount’s been a delight as Pike and I’m excited to see his tenure on the 1701 receive more canonical focus (and to act as a bridge between DSC and TOS).
@26/Mr. Magic: Yeah… In the abstract, I don’t see much point in a Pike series. Pike and Kirk were basically the same character to start with, just renamed, and with Kirk shaped over time by Shatner’s interpretation. And McCoy was just Boyce renamed, and Number One’s attributes were folded into Spock, so essentially we already got everything a Pike series would’ve had to offer, aside from a female co-lead. But what makes this worth doing is how effective Peck, Romijn, and especially Mount were in their roles, enough that we want to see them do more.
Incidentally, Picard isn’t quite in the 25th century yet. It’s in 2399, probably in August-September, because episode 2 is a month before the harvest at Picard’s vineyard, and grape harvests in that part of France are usually in September (yes, I’m such a chronology nerd that I actually looked that up). But it will probably be in the 25th century next season, assuming they don’t pick up right where they left off. (Unless you take the pedantic view that centuries have to start in the “year 1,” but calendars are arbitrary anyway and only the pedants bother to define it that way. Most of humanity celebrated the arrival of the 21st century on January 1, 2000, not a year later.)
@22
That is, of course, your opinion. But an alternate universe is the only way the rather drastic differences can be reconciled.
@28 – There’s also the method of simply ignoring what contradicts or you don’t agree with or doesn’t fit. Ask CLB about The Counter-Clock incident for one example.
Personally, I assume episode is in it’s own universe and fits into the others sometimes better than others. And it it doesn’t fir with what’s come before, then I assume that it fits into what people have taken to calling the Prime universe with changes to make it fit. Sort of like using a large mallet to force a slightly misshapen puzzle piece to fit.
For me, it all fits, just into a multiverse instead of a single universe.
@28/ragnar: “That is, of course, your opinion.”
No, it is not. It is the documented intention of the show’s creators. While they naturally, obviously update the superficial visual depiction of the universe, their intention has always been to tell stories that take place in the same continuity as all previous Trek TV series — just as present-day Marvel comics are meant to take place in the same continuity as 1960s Marvel comics despite the differences in chronology and technological advancement. And that is what matters when it comes to what the actual show will portray — not any viewer’s opinion, but the creators’ goals and intentions.
“But an alternate universe is the only way the rather drastic differences can be reconciled.”
Again: Some people said the exact same thing about the original movie series. They said the same thing about TNG/DS9/VGR. They said the same thing about ENT. Some fans always say it. And they’re never right. They never understand that the superficial differences they see do not change the creators’ intention for the stories to take place in the same continuity.
Robin Curtis doesn’t look much like Kirstie Alley. Her Saavik didn’t act much like the previous Saavik. But that does not mean the filmmakers intended there to be two separate Vulcan lieutenants named Saavik. It means they intended her to be a single continuous character, but adjusted the way they interpreted that character. Because that’s something you can do in a story — adjust how you tell it as you go. It’s not actually real, so it doesn’t matter if the details don’t fit perfectly, as long as you pretend they do.
Whether it’s the same universe across different series or not, it really doesn’t matter either way (to me). What matters are the characters we’re made to care about. The Deanna Troi married to Worf wasn’t our Troi, but I still cared about her. So did our Worf. Didn’t matter what universe we were in at that moment.
It’s the “human adventure” after all, not the multiverse map adventure.
‘You Are Here’ says the sign.
Yeah, so what? Who am I with? That’s what gives it meaning.
Filmmakers intentions don’t matter. It’s what on screen that counts. It’s like the folks that said “Read the Picard novel. It gives you background on the characters including the fact that Agnes is an M.D.”.
Yeah, and that doesn’t count either, regardless of who the author is. You want it to count? Put it on the screen.
Canon is just a set of restrictions that the owners and show runners put on the writers, set designers, etc. Canon doesn’t apply to fans and it never has.
@27 / CLB:
Incidentally, Picard isn’t quite in the 25th century yet. It’s in 2399, probably in August-September, because episode 2 is a month before the harvest at Picard’s vineyard, and grape harvests in that part of France are usually in September (yes, I’m such a chronology nerd that I actually looked that up). But it will probably be in the 25th century next season, assuming they don’t pick up right where they left off.
Right, that’s what I meant. It’s on the cusp of the 2400s, so I figured it was close enough to classify the series as 25th Century (or at least will be whenever Season Two opens).
@32
I’m reminded of the recent story about the guy — I think he was with Lucasfilm — saying Star Wars is fake anyway and fans can enjoy whatever stories they want, whatever works for them. And some people got mad at him for saying that, which I find hilarious.
@34 – Basically “You’re enjoying it WRONG!!!”
@34,
Yeah, with long-running franchises and the inherent contradictions, retcons, paradoxes, and whatnot, I’ve personally reached the point where I just follow what I call the Tao of Basil Exposition.
Anyone who’s seen the Austin Powers films knows which Basil scene I’m talking about, LOL. :D
@36
Haha, I like that.
@31/JFWheeler: “What matters are the characters we’re made to care about.”
Exactly. Stories are about characters and ideas, not scenery and prop designs. Continuity is not about whether the ships or uniforms or aliens look the same, any more than it’s about whether James Cromwell looks like Glenn Corbett or whether Don Cheadle looks like Terrence Howard. All that matters is who the characters are, what their relationships are, what they stand for. If those things are done right, then it’s the same characters, the same world.
It’s like… If a dozen people read the same book or listen to the same radio show, they will envision it in their mind’s eye in a dozen different ways, but it will still be the same story at the core. The fundamentals are consistent regardless of how the details are interpreted. What we see in a TV show or movie is the story filtered through the minds’ eyes of the designers and directors. So of course it’ll appear different when different people are interpreting it. It’s what’s underneath that matters.
I’ve said this before: we are not Thermians watching historical documents. We’re experiencing fiction. Stressing about what’s real in a fictional construct has always struck me as a waste of energy.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
I really really hope not! The writers and showrunners should devise a good story to tell with the characters and vision they’re working with, and just tell it. Trying to cough up an in-universe explanation for all the differences in how things look will satisfy a small group of extremely literal-minded fans who are loud on the internet, while gumming up the storytelling and character development that should make it a compelling season for everybody else. Trying to “fix” all of this stuff is the bane of 21st century prequels, and the ones that succeed artistically are the ones that don’t let it get in the way. The future as imagined from 1967 “look[s] and feel[s]” very different from the one imagined in 2020, and that’s OK! It’s fine! They should just let that stand, let the redditerati do whatever they’re going to do, and tell their story.
That said, if they dump section 31 in a deep hole and backfill it with tritanium, it’s fine with me, not because it’s new but because it’s dumb.
S
@16: As you yourself pointed out, there’s Picard to move canon forward (and Discovery for that matter), so I see no harm in having yet another Trek series take place in the “past”. Besides, I think it’s the characters and the stories themselves that are the most important factors in a show’s success, not the when.
I think it’ll be fun to get further peeks at TOS alien favorites like the Gorn and the Tholians, and hopefully tie into ENT continuity with appearances or at least mentions of the Xindi and the Suliban. But also just looking forward to stories that serve as allegories for the troubling issues of our times.
Also, I know it’s fun to speculate on the casting of characters with specific actors but if all of the previous series serve as precedent, SNW will likewise be made up of mostly unknowns. When ENT premiered I had never heard of any of those actors before except Bakula. With PIC, those were all new names to me except for Stewart and Spiner and Jeri Ryan obviously. Likewise, before DSC, I had never heard of Anson Mount or Ethan Peck before. It’s possible when SNW premieres, Rebecca Romijn will still be the most well-known of the cast.
@41: Yeah, true. We get to have our cake and eat it too with the 23rd and Late 24th Century productions.
(I’ll also admit bias because I didn’t grow up with TOS, so I’m not that emotionally attached to the TOS-era the way I am to the TNG-era.)
As for returning to TOS and ENT world-building, there’s definitely potential to follow up on the Suliban and Xindi (and using them as analogies for the post-9/11 legacy).
As for returning TOS aliens, I would definitely love to see Vanaguard-esque worldbuilding with the Tholians. I loved what David Mack and Dayton Ward did with the Tholians in those books and it makes me regret they’ve never been really canonically explored either.
@41/GarretH: There can’t be Gorn in a Pike series, since the Federation wouldn’t make first contact with them until “Arena.” Well, unless they did something like “Acquisition” or “Regeneration” where the crew encountered the aliens “early” but didn’t find out who they were, or if the whole thing was classified like a lot of Discovery, but please no, we’ve had enough of those.
I like the idea of following up on where the Suliban or Xindi are a century later, though.
“When ENT premiered I had never heard of any of those actors before except Bakula.”
I think the same might be true for me, except maybe for John Billingsley; I’d certainly seen him in various character roles here and there, but I don’t know if I was familiar with his name.
“With PIC, those were all new names to me except for Stewart and Spiner and Jeri Ryan obviously.”
I knew Michelle Hurd from Daredevil and Jessica Jones, where she was the assistant DA in a few episodes, and from a couple of other things including the never-aired Justice League of America pilot where she was very impressive as Fire. I knew Santiago Cabrera from Heroes and The Musketeers, and Peyton List from The Tomorrow People and a number of other things.
“Likewise, before DSC, I had never heard of Anson Mount… before.”
Congratulations — that means you were spared having to sit through Marvel’s Inhumans.
@43: There can’t be Gorn in a Pike series, since the Federation wouldn’t make first contact with them until “Arena.” Well, unless they did something like “Acquisition” or “Regeneration” where the crew encountered the aliens “early” but didn’t find out who they were, or if the whole thing was classified like a lot of Discovery, but please no, we’ve had enough of those.
Right, or you could also take the same approach ENT did with the Romulans in Season Four: Show developments and scenes from their perspective, but only the audience sees it and the Starfleet characters are thus left in the dark.
I’m unsure how well that would work with the Gorn, though. The Romulans at least had the built-in recognition and development as one of the franchise’s oldest cultures (and even at that point in the franchise with much more world-building compared to the Gorn).
I knew of Anson Mount from Hell on Wheels, which also starred the great Colm Meaney. The series never really took off into western greatness or anything, in my opinion, but those two actors were consistently good throughout its run. Happy to see Mount finding further success.
@43/CLB: RE: The Gorn – Ah, that just goes to show you how little versed I am in TOS. Like Mr. Magic, I grew up in the TNG era of Trek so frankly I’ve seen “In a Mirror Darkly, Part II” much more often than “Arena” so I just knew the Gorn were an iconic TOS alien species and not much beyond that.
Some things I don’t want to see in the new series: time travel (done to death), Section 31 (already overstayed its welcome and they’re already getting their own show anyways), god-like aliens that toy with the crew, or episodes where the crew are possessed by aliens.
And what I would like to see more of are frankly more imaginative non-humanoid aliens of the Tin Man and whale probe variety. As far as the cast itself, you just know that with three main white leads the rest are going to be more “diverse.” How about an indigenous peoples character that is better realized and more specific than Chakotay was? Also, after every Trek series having had a predominantly male cast, we flip the script and have it majority female just for the sake of standing out in that historical regard?
@46,
Some things I don’t want to see in the new series: time travel (done to death), Section 31 (already overstayed its welcome and they’re already getting their own show anyways), god-like aliens that toy with the crew, or episodes where the crew are possessed by aliens.
Yeah, ideally, I’d like the inaugural Season to take the same route the final Season of ENT took: Balance exploratory stories with following up on the fallout from DSC Season Two and laying groundwork for developments to come a decade later once Kirk gets the 1701.
@46:
Right there with you on time travel. It’s occasionally useful as a framing device or for social commentary (DS9 “Past Tense”, STIV, even the VOY with Sarah Silverman) or in comedy (“Little Green Men”), but when used as an ongoing driving element in the plot it has the fatal flaw that it’s not just outlandish technology (this is SF, after all) but inherently leads to logical absurdities in the plot. The “temporal cold war” was a detestable thread on ENT, the time shenanigans damn nearly ruined the otherwise excellent second season of DIS, and on and on. Too often it’s just lazy writing – if time travel is possible you can create any situation and get yourself out of any plot corner, as long as the viewers don’t think too hard. Arrgh. I’m with the Vulcan Science Academy on this one.
I seem to be feeling opinionated today!
S
@46, Yeah, I have to agree that time travel in Trek has run its course at this point. I wish they’d just put a moratorium on any more Trek time travel stories.
As for the Temporal Cold War, though, I always thought the basic concept was interesting. Given Archer’s voyages were supposed to kick off the chain of events leading the foundation of the UFP and all that followed, it did make sense that future enemies/factions might meddle in that era to derail or ensure the union — or both.
It’s just, heh, the execution sucked (on top of the logistical issues of time travel stories that you cited).
And plus I will give CLB due credit for tying together multiple time travel incidents throughout the TOS and TNG-eras into the War in his inaugural Department of Temporal Investigations novel.
I dunno, I think I’d still be down for a time travel romp that doesn’t take itself too seriously. I’m thinking of the Voyager episode “Relativity.” Lots of stuff don’t add up if you think too hard about it and there isn’t the least bit of social commentary I can find, but I still enjoy it.
@@@@@ 43 – “There can’t be Gorn in a Pike series, since the Federation wouldn’t make first contact with them until “Arena.””
Lorca had a Gorn skeleton in his ready room. As it’s unlikely that Mirror Lorca brought it over with him, the Gorn have already been contacted.
Well, looks like I was unintentionally prescient about this new show returning Trek to a more episodic approach.
@52: That’s terrific news! I’m so over season long arcs. My favorite episodes of Trek are one-off adventures with a unique story that’s wrapped up in 40-something minutes and then on to the next!
@53,
Yeah, and I’m very encouraged by Goldsman’s proposed approach:
“I think what we would want to do is keep the characters having moved through and recognizing the experiences they’ve had in previous episodes, but to be able to tell contained, episodic stories.”
I think it’s definitely the right move if they can strike that balance between “Planets of the Week” and ongoing storylines. It can work like gangbusters if done right (Stargate especially really excelled at this during the later years of SG-1 and Atlantis).
@54
That approach sounds a lot like DS9.
I’m sold!
Why wouldn’t it be set in an alternate reality? They’d be hard-pressed to explain why the ships of a decade earlier were more advanced than the ones in Kirk’s time otherwise. Starfleet budget cuts?
I would like to see a 25th century or even later Trek series that takes place in between The Next Generation era and the future that was briefly visited by Archer and Daniels in Enterprise. Or maybe even a series set during that period on the humongous Enterprise J.
@56: It’s just a re-imagining of the franchise, not a series taking place in an alternate reality. The original series was a product of its time, including budget limitations, obsolete social attitudes such as toward women, and even ret-cons within the series itself (“Vulcanians”, “UESPA”, etc.). By your logic, all of the films after TOS is set in an alternate reality because the Klingons suddenly look very different. Basically you just have to go with the flow and accept it’s part of the same reality for a franchise that lasted far longer than most people ever imagined so of course every new era is going to put their own unique spin on things. And like KRAD was saying, it’s all a fictional universe anyway so why get bogged down in re-designs of sets and uniforms and ships?
@56/mspence: “Why wouldn’t it be set in an alternate reality?”
Because we already know it isn’t. It’s a spinoff of Star Trek: Discovery, and Discovery is a direct prequel to TOS. The Christopher Pike who appeared in DSC season 2 was the same Christopher Pike who visited Talos IV in “The Cage” and was destined to suffer the accident of “The Menagerie,” as we were clearly shown in DSC episode 2×08, “If Memory Serves.” And DSC’s season 2 finale went to preposterous lengths to reconcile its continuity with TOS’s by classifying everything to “explain” why it was never mentioned in TOS. They never would’ve needed to bother if it had been in an alternate reality. It probably would’ve been better if it were, since they wouldn’t have to go to such lengths to reconcile it, but it very clearly is not.
“They’d be hard-pressed to explain why the ships of a decade earlier were more advanced than the ones in Kirk’s time otherwise. Starfleet budget cuts?”
The ships are not more advanced. The technique with which they are simulated for television is more advanced. Obviously the makers of TOS did not intend 23rd-century ships to look like they were built in the 1960s. They wanted the ships to look futuristic but were limited in their ability to simulate that. Modern shows have the technology to simulate it better, to come closer to what the original makers were trying to approximate in the first place (although the versions we make today will surely look just as antiquated 50 years from now as TOS looks today).
It’s important not to mistake a difference in technique for a difference in the subject. Nobody would mistake Al Hirschfield’s caricature of Marilyn Monroe for Andy Warhol’s painting of her, but they’re still renderings of the same person. One is just more figurative than the other.
In the Menagerie, Kirk follows the Enterprise after it is stolen by Spock. Thanks to Discovery, we know that the distance from the starbase to Talos IV is one light year. The shuttle runs out of fuel before crossing that distance.
On Discovery, Spock steals a shuttlecraft and proceeds to fly all over the galaxy. Doesn’t run out of fuel despite the fact that he’s a fugitive and can’t simply stop at a starbase to top up the tank.
Sounds more advanced to me.
In Wrath of Khan, Carol says Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years, apparently ignoring the war that had happened 30 years previous and was started by a Starfleet officer.
Spock is amazed that the Romulans have managed to create a cloaking device, believing an invisibility screen to be theoretical. Starfleet had already encountered a cloaked Klingon ship years earlier.
Spock & McCpy (and the Enerprise computer apparently) are totally unaware of tribbles yet Lorca had one in his ready room and yet Lieutenant Edward Larkin not only has a supply of them but is doing genetic experiments on them during the Pike era. After what happened to the Cabot, you’d think that Starfleet would have some information about them available.
Also, a hundred years before Discovery, Phlox had tribbles on the Enterprise and had this to say about them:
“All it’s capable of doing, really, is eating and breeding. The problem is they breed quite prodigiously.“
Apparently it’s not just the Discovery that’s been classified. All information from other ships is kept from Starfleet captains. Maybe it’s to keep them sharp, solving problems on their own instead of simply seeing how others did things.
Looking forward a lot to this series. I’m in the camp of, as long as they tell interesting stories with characters we care about, I am not going to stress too much about visuals and continuity in the small things (although that part of me will never quite go away, but it’s a lot less dominant than it used to be 20 years ago or so). As several commenters above have already said more or less, those things are the inevitable price you pay for having a decades-long franchise you love and get enjoyment from, so that’s a more than fair exchange.
One larger continuity thing I do wonder about, though, having finally just watched DSC Season 2, is how Pike’s knowledge of his future will affect him going forward. The scene where he tells Cornwell, “As long as I’m in the room, this torpedo can’t explode” seemed a little off. Obviously, from our standpoint, we know Pike’s fate just as well as he does, so there’s no real narrative tension there about whether he survives (the dramatic tension comes from, :”Well, how does he get out of this one?”) But I wonder whether we’re going to get lots of Pike wrestling with, “Was my vision from the time crystal my set-in-stone future or not?” I rather hope not, because I think you can only go to that well so many times… but on the other hand, as Jeffrey Hunter’s Pike definitely had a moody side in the immediate wake of the fight on Rigel, maybe Ethan Mount’s Pike will have that tendency as well. It would be consistent, but it wouldn’t be as appealing as the optimistic and always moving forward Pike we got in DSC Season 2.
Babbling a little – my ;point is just, the show will have to get dramatic stakes for Pike personally (as opposed to the fate of the crew, the fate of the planet of the week, the fate of the galaxy) in more complicated ways. Could be a really good thing, if done right.
(And I also may be forgetting how much of the details Pike knows – like, did his vision clearly show he was saving cadets on a training ship, as established in “Menagerie”? If not, any situation where he feels drawn to put himself in danger for others could be a, “Is this the moment?” I do hope, as someone said above, the SNW series will culminate in transfer of command of the Enterprise to Kirk, and Pike’s accident, with some explicit callbacks to “If Memory Serves.”)
@60/writermpoteet: “as Jeffrey Hunter’s Pike definitely had a moody side in the immediate wake of the fight on Rigel, maybe Ethan Mount’s Pike will have that tendency as well.”
For decades, people have made the mistake of assuming that just because we caught Pike in his worst moment in “The Cage,” that represented how he normally behaved. That was never the intention. Pike was no moodier than Kirk, who had his moments of angst and self-doubt in “Balance of Terror,” “The Naked Time,” “City on the Edge of Forever,” and elsewhere. First-season Kirk was basically just Pike with a name change, written exactly the same until his personality evolved in response to Shatner’s personality and the network’s pressure to make him more of a stock two-fisted womanizing action lead. If Pike had continued, he would’ve been written basically the same as Kirk, with the same range of emotions and moods, but with the emphasis shaped by the personality of the actor playing the role. In this case, we already have a whole season’s precedent for what Anson Mount’s personality brings to the role, and it’s not moodiness.
Re: @41 and @43 : A Gorn turned up in ENT “In a Mirror, Darkly Part II“. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorn
@55:
That approach sounds a lot like DS9.
I’m sold!
It does. But it’s also worth pointing out that even DS9 wasn’t able to fully explore that balance to the extent it could have due to network/syndication mandates at the time.
“Hard Time” in particular is the example I always think of. It’s still ludicrous that O’Brian’s psychological recovery was magically solved off-screen and not revisited again (not unlike Picard’s experience after “The Inner Light”).
So it sounds like Goldsman is hoping to take that basic DS9 approach to the next level offered by streaming mandates and standards — or at least that’s my hope anyway.
@56 / CLB:
Modern shows have the technology to simulate it better, to come closer to what the original makers were trying to approximate in the first place (although the versions we make today will surely look just as antiquated 50 years from now as TOS looks today).
Yeah. Even TNG’s design aesthetic (the LCARS in particular), for all the high production values of the late Eighties, is looking more and more dated even after only 33 years.
(Though as I’ve said before, I do like how Picard‘s taken that basic template and seamlessly updated it for 21st Century production values while feeling the natural in-universe evolution after 20 years).
@@@@@ 62 – Yeah but that was the mirror universe. DSC and TOS are supposedly in the same universe.
@@@@@ 63 – Well, if you’re trying to update the show because we can now do what wasn’t possible for technological or budget reasons, ditch the totally impossible transporter and land the ship.
Regarding “magical” recoveries, how about Picard after BoBW and Family? A fight with his brother and he’s all better. At least until First Contact needed a reason for Picard to ignore the order to stay away from the battle. At the very least, Picard should have been at Starfleet for therapy and intense debriefing.
Or Worf, having his entire spinal column replaced through experimental surgery and yet by the next episode he’s back getting beat up as if nothing happened.
@62/Philippa: The Gorn in ENT only appeared in the Mirror Universe, to remain consistent with “Arena” being the first contact in the Prime Universe.
@63/Mr. Magic: “Even TNG’s design aesthetic (the LCARS in particular), for all the high production values of the late Eighties, is looking more and more dated even after only 33 years.”
The clever thing about Mike Okuda’s LCARS displays is that they looked like high-tech touch screens but were actually very simple to make, since you just needed to create a colored transparency and backlight it. So it was a low-tech, low-cost solution that just looked advanced and expensive.
I think there is an important distinction being missed about design aesthetics.
If someone wanted to design something in a certain way, but was limited by the technology and budget they had available, then I think updating things so that that they match the intended vision makes perfect sense.
If something was designed in a specific way for a reason, then why not honour the original intentions and follow the same considerations?
The Enterprise-D didn’t look entirely the way it did because of the lack of CGI in the 80s. It looked the way it did because they tried to make it an environment that people would be comfortable living in for years on end. The technology was designed to be as useful and practical as possible for the fictional crew. On those measures it still holds up excellently well. If someone was to recreate that ship for future stories there’s no need to change it much, just make the touchscreens and displays like the modern touchscreens and displays they were clearly always intended to be. As a ship I think it’s remarkable how little it has aged in the decades that have passed. We’re as far from its design as it was to 1950. It still looks brilliantly realistically futuristic on a modern screen in HD in a way that no design from 1950 would have looked close to in the mid-80s.
Bringing the Enterprise of the mid 23rd Century to a modern series would always involve changes: Yes update the displays and consoles and PADDs. Add more areas and more depth to the familiar areas you recreate. But fundamental changes to the dimensions and aesthetic? I don’t see the point. How does it help tell better stories? Why would the basic hull shape of the 1960s Enterprise not work just as well as the altered one, even if it was spruced to look a bit more realistic? Why make the bridge an homage rather than just, you know, the bridge we knew?
I love Discovery. It’s a brilliant series. I’ll forever be grateful for the way it reignited the Star Trek flame on TV – where it belongs. But hologram bridge consoles make no practical sense. The whole thing being garishly lit like a neon tube industry showcase makes no sense for a ship that people live and work on for extended periods. The cold metallic walls do not provide the visual comfort of original series’ pastels.
Deciding to redesign the Enterprise rather than modernise the existing design was a mistake. It’s not a mistake that stops me looking forward to SNW a very great deal – I honestly can’t wait – but it’s a mistake all the same.
Regarding “magical” recoveries, how about Picard after BoBW and Family? A fight with his brother and he’s all better. At least until First Contact needed a reason for Picard to ignore the order to stay away from the battle. At the very least, Picard should have been at Starfleet for therapy and intense debriefing.
@64: Picard was not remotely better nor cured after the events of Family. Not by a long shot. Even his estranged brother realizes he’ll have to carry that burden for the rest of his life. Season 5’s I, Borg showed a Picard willing to consider genocide and an unwillingness to deal with Hugh directly, let alone acknowledge him as an individual. Then there’s First Contact and the Ahab aspect of it.
By the time we get to Picard’s sixth episode, The Impossible Box, we see the pained expression in his face. Even after nearly 33 years, he’s still carrying the scars of his assimilation, as well as his anger and fears. One his lines hits like a dagger: “The Borg don’t change; they METASTASIZE!”
Which is exactly why he shouldn’t have been back in the center seat right after Family. But the only times it came up was when they needed a plot point. “You are badly wounded inside and out. The outside has healed but the inside needs lots of time and therapy. So, anyway, off you go to your next mission.”
@67, Don’t forget the climax of Season Four’s “The Drumhead” when Satie tries to pin the blame for Wolf 359 on Picard. Even though Picard rallied to defend himself, it was blatant some of her barbs about his (involuntary) role struck home.
@66/jmwhite: “But fundamental changes to the dimensions and aesthetic? I don’t see the point.”
What’s the point of different comic book artists drawing the same characters differently, or a band doing a new arrangement of an old song it’s covering? What was the point of redesigning the Klingons or the Andorians, or in Doctor Who, redesigning the Sontarans or Silurians? It’s done because it’s design — not something real, but an artistic invention of talented people. A new artistic interpretation of a thing is not required to be an “accurate” reconstruction of an earlier version of it, because it’s not a real thing, it’s an expression of design and imagination, which makes it a matter of individual style.
Personally, I agree with you that I would’ve preferred a somewhat closer recreation of the original design with tech upgrades. But that’s a personal preference, not an objective standard of rightness. The thing about creativity is that everyone does it differently, and that’s what makes it worthwhile. You or I may not be fond of every creator’s style, but that doesn’t make them wrong to express their own style. They have the right to do it however they want, just as we have the right to wish they did it differently.
And also, this ‘debate’ over whether ships from Discovery look more modern than ships filmed in a 1960’s show is no different than similar debates that took place over the look Star Wars Episodes I, II and III. If you’re watching a prequel, you have to embrace the fact that visual effects technology and production values evolve over time.
I recall some dense people saying that the in-universe technology depicted in the Star Wars prequels was somehow superior than that depicted in the original trilogy, without ever specifying as to how. And if we pay attention to the films, we see that’s not the case at all. Ships and stations in the original trilogy look more battered and lived-in because they’d gone through 20 years of civil war! Naboo ships in Episode 1 look pristine and elegantly designed because they’re a product of peaceful and prosperous times. Meanwhile, X-Wings and Y-Wings look like space junk and leftovers, which is because the rebels scrounge up their resources, while the Imperials favor ulititarian militaristic designs as the basis for their TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers (and we see this slow evolution in ship design during Episodes 2 and 3, as well as the Clone Wars animated show).
@69: Also, “Emissary” on DS9 where Picard quite literally has to face the repercussions of his involuntary killing of 11,000 people when confronted by Ben Sisko, whose wife was killed at Wolf 359. I remember reading the novelization of the episode and Picard vows to himself that if anything ever happened to Benjamin, then he would personally see to it that Jake was looked after.
@69: Obviously for real world reasons we’d need Picard back in the center seat every week so that he can have adventures and make Paramount money. But there’s also no reason to assume that he’s not getting serious counseling on a regular basis from the very competent counselor they have on board.
Regarding SNW and the design aesthetics of the show, it’s a very superficial thing and not all that important in the scheme of things, but I for one am excited that we’re getting the Enterprise NCC-1701 again (in its reimagined DSC update) because I feel like it’s the first series-starring starship in a long while that actually looks good. The main ship on Picard isn’t very memorable (and I don’t think is actually a Starfleet design), Discovery doesn’t look at all graceful, Enterprise NX-01 is bland, Voyager was awkward looking especially from certain angles, and I was also ambivalent about the Enterprise-E which looked bulky in my opinion. Defiant was cool and different but the last starship I actually thought was pretty and elegant was Enterprise-D. And so DSC-era Enterprise is a return to that beautiful starship aesthetic. End of rant.
CLB, I do agree with you, and my joy at seeing the Enterprise turn up at the end of Discover S1 was only 3% lower than it would have been if they’d used the old Enterprise.
But these are bad design choices. I’m no expert on comics, but I’m guessing if Batman turned up in a lime green costume sporting blonde hair and a perm then some people would have something to say.
Star Trek starships never seemed designed to look futuristic. They seemed designed to be starships. LCARS is something that you can imagine looking at for 8 hours. The more recent interfaces don’t. If someone developed an operating system that looked like Discovery’s consoles no one would want one. It would be hard to stare at all day. It’s bad design. It’s futuristic, but not in a way the actual future could ever resemble.
Holographic interfaces would offer nothing in terms of functionality, but will be inherently less stable, will allow you to get distracted by what’s the other side of them, and you’ll lose tactile feedback. Futuristic, but not in a way the actual future will resemble.
Like has been said though, it’s incidental, because the stories and performances are great. But by a distance the worst things about contemporary Trek have been the design choices. If in STW they move the Enterprise back towards something that looks like a starship you could live and work on I’ll be pleased.
@72, Yeah, I completely agree DSC’s done a great job at updating the Constitution-Class for a 21st Century aesthetic
(For my money, it’s a much better update compared to what the Kelvin Films did with the 1701).
@74: Agreed about the Kelvin films Enterprise. It’s so bulbous. But at least these films do actually take place in an alternate reality so I can pretend they don’t exist!
Agreed, this Enterprise is much easier on my eyes. Just switching the blinding white for blue-gray makes a world of difference.
@73/jmwhite: “Star Trek starships never seemed designed to look futuristic.”
That’s how it looks when you’re viewing a design from half a century ago through modern eyes. To 1960s eyes, they probably looked very advanced.
It was Star Wars that went for a deliberately retro look. Star Trek always strove to be forward-looking.
Sorry, I might not have explained myself very well. I mean they’re not simply designed to look how we imagine futuristic things will look, with the many familiar sci-fi and futurism tropes that always date quickly.
They’re ships imagined to have lots of futuristic technology, but then designed to incorporate that technology in ways that looks realistically like the crew could live and operate it. It’s forward looking in a way thatsfar closer to what the actual future could be. It’s genius how well it was always done.
If instead, say, 60s Star Trek had used all the visual sci-fi tropes of the time it would now look far more dated. The TNG era was even better in that regard. They still look futuristic because of it.
@76, I mean, in all fairness to J. J. Abrams, trying to update Matt Jeffries’ design for the 21st Century was never going to be easy. I’m sure it came full circle with how audiences initially responded to the TMP redesign in 1979 and how the 1701 refit looked ‘wrong’.
But the Kelvin redesign it just…yeah, it just felt never…I don’t know if right is the correct term. But it just felt like it was trying to update and emulate the 1701 without understanding why the design worked and has endured.
So the DSC update is what I’ve always thought the Kelvin 1701 should’ve looked like, but that’s just me.
@@@@@ 72 – What repercussions? Picard’s reaction in Emissary was to look quiet for a moment and then tell Sisko that he had a job to do. Sure, other people bring it up but Picard doesn’t seem much more than embarrassed when they do.
Funny thing about Star Wars. They managed to keep the Millennium Falcon looking the same through the movies. There’s no question it’s the same ship, even it sometimes it’s a bit cleaner than others. They didn’t feel the need to add fins, neon bits and change the size.
@79
Just my opinion, but I think it’s fairly easy not to turn the bridge into an Apple store disco/roller rink or whatever they were trying to do. It looked better, though, in Star Trek Beyond. Maybe because they lowered the lights a bit. And, well, because Justin Lin is a better director than J.J. Abrams.
Yeah, I said it.
@80: I’m sure there are massive psychological repercussions to having your mind and body forcibly violated and surgically altered, then used as an instrument in the destruction of thousands of other beings. Being confined by Sisko is a living reminder of this trauma of Picard and just because we can’t see and hear all of Picard’s thoughts on the matter doesn’t mean they’re not percolating beneath the surface. Picard is still Sisko’s commanding officer and has to keep him in line in order to fulfill a crucial assignment so it’s too Picard’s credit that he doesn’t collapse into a whimpering mess when Sisko reminds him of how they’ve met before.
@79 IMHO the 2009 redesign is my favorite (followed by the refit and Ent-D). Ryan Church and ILM understand design very well and did a fabulous job – she never looked better on the big screen. I could have lived without the brewery as engineering, but they did not have enough money to realize the concept designer‘s ideas.
@6/Christopher: It seems Jeffrey Combs has become a top choice for playing Boyce amongst fans online.
https://trekmovie.com/2020/05/17/actor-jeffrey-combs-responds-to-fan-clamor-for-him-to-play-dr-boyce-on-star-trek-strange-new-worlds/
@@@@@ 82 -I’m sure there are massive psychological repercussions to having your mind and body forcibly violated and surgically altered, then used as an instrument in the destruction of thousands of other beings. “
Which, again, is the reason that Picard shouldn’t have been put back in command, at least not right away. But that’s not what happened. Instead, he was sent right back out without so much as an indication that Troi was working with him. Trauma like that is not something you want to be dealing with only when it becomes part of the plot. They could have dropped in a line here or there in the following episodes. Not an A or B plot, just an indication that he was getting therapy.
@86: Like I was saying, the syndicated episode nature of TNG was such that Picard receiving ongoing therapy was not an arc that the writers were going to incorporate into the series. Rather, I think it was rather bold that Michael Piller understood the major implications to Picard as a result of being assimilated and fought for and won the ability to produce an episode, “Family”, that specifically addressed those implications rather than just move on to the next adventure of the week story. The people in charge of TNG didn’t have to do that and it’s to their credit that they did because the response was weak ratings compared to the rest of the season and viewers being openly critical of the episode. And beyond “Family”, lip service that Picard is still dealing with the repercussions of his actions and his anger with the Borg is made in “The Drumhead”, and “I, Borg” all the way through to the movie First Contact. So for the medium that TNG was airing in for its time, I think that’s pretty good. And again, I also believe Troi, being a trusted confidante of Picard and a very capable counselor, would in fact be counseling him regarding his trauma much as he immediately came to her after being tortured by the Cardassians in “The Chain of Command.”
The episode is in the universe itself and suits other people sometimes better than others. And it’s not as flexible as what came before, then I think it fits what people have called to call Prime universe with changes to make it fit. It was still great
Aaaah, so THIS is where that mass cry of ecstasy radiating across the Force – whoops, wong fandom – has been emanating from; I thought for a minute that Sir Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian Mckellen had finally agreed to commit their ‘bromance’ to the Silver Screen! (-;
I created a Star Trek community page solely dedicated to all things Strange New Worlds. It is my hope that people who loved the Old Star Trek Shows and perhaps have felt left out during recent shows, will find a place here.
Below is the link to the community page. Please join and please contribute. Thank you!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1086041095101577
Hooray!! This is the Star Trek series I’ve been hoping for ever since watching DSC Season 2! I’m not that interested in a Section 31 show (Michelle Yeoh is amazing, but the sooper sekrit side of the Federation is not something I care much about–there are other spy shows I can watch if that’s what I’m interested in).
Meanwhile, a more episodic show that still cares about character growth over the course of the series — THAT I’m excited about! I’ve been hoping for the Star Trek equivalent of Parks & Recreation, essentially: you can dip into an episode of Parks & Rec and still have a great time without needing to watch the episode before, but relationships and characters grow over time. Adventure of the week + character growth = excited to see where they take this!
@86 – I’m not talking about in terms of “Behind the scenes”. I’m talking about what it shows about Starfleet and the Federation when you can be assimilated and put right back into command. Same goes for being tortured by Cardassians.
And after a trauma like that you should not be relying on a councillor while you’re facing new situations. Who knows what’s going to trigger PTSD? Picard was the first time someone had been removed from the collective, a situation that the Federation knows absolutely nothing about.
But, of course, it all worked out for the best because our intrepid heroes are just that good. Able to bounce back from pretty much anything, up to and including coming back from the dead with no repercussions.
Scotty died – Right back to normal.
Uhura – Mind wiped – Learns everything and back to normal in a week.
Spock – Dies from radiation, left alone on a planet coursing with unknown radiations, mind dumped back into his brain. Right as rain.
Is there anything that can happen to you, short of ending up like Pike that keeps you off duty?
It’s much like how we now know that it’s entirely possible to go from third year cadet to Captain of the newest starship in one go. We know because we saw it happen.
Or promotion to Admiral is someting that not only can happen to someone three years out of the academy but it’s a promotion you can apply for.
The future is very, very strange when it comes to how things work in the “military”.