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Terry Pratchett Book Club: Interesting Times, Part I

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Terry Pratchett Book Club: Interesting Times, Part I

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Terry Pratchett Book Club: Interesting Times, Part I

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Published on March 25, 2022

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Somebody give Rincewind a potato. Please. He just needs some mashed potatoes.

Summary

The Lady and Fate are about to play a game called Mighty Empires. The Lady makes her first move with a butterfly that unfolds its wings. Lord Vetinari asks to see Archchancellor Ridcully because he’s received an albatross from the Counterweight Continent, their first message in quite some time. They’ve demanded the “Grand Wizzard,” and Vetinari wants the wizards to take care of the request by teatime. Ridcully is certain he’s seen that spelling of “wizzard” before, but can’t put his finger on where. He heads back to the University and calls a meeting to decide how to tackle the issue. The Librarian remembers that “wizzard” was the label on Rincewind’s old hat. Rincewind is currently on a serene little island (where he has been since the events of Eric, the past several months), catching seafood and avoiding being eaten by sharks thanks to the Luggage’s interference. Ridcully insists that they go about finding Rincewind, having no preconceived notions about him because he wasn’t involved in any of the man’s previous misadventures, having not been Archchancellor at the time.

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Ponder uses a device called Hex to summon Rincewind the necessary distance (just as he’s being propositioned by Amazons, but he believes they are about to give him potatoes), and he promptly staggers into the street, horks down three of Dibbler’s sausages in buns, gets knocked about by the thieves doing their guild training, then staggers back to the University to get his hat from the Librarian. Lord Hong, from the Counterweight Continent, is a perfect sort of man, who has summoned the “Great Wizzard” to give an opposing army someone to follow—he is quite certain this man is a fool and will result in their doom. Rincewind wakes up the next day to hear the wizards arguing about what to do with him: Ridcully has determined that he’s the right man to send after the message because, as the rest of the faculty have pointed out, he’s survived a great deal. He tells Rincewind that they’ll execute him for pretending to be a wizard when he never passed his exams, unless he agrees to perform some incredible act for the benefit of magic. Rincewind agrees. The Red Army meets and Two Fire Herb says that the Great Wizzard will come and then they’ll storm the summer palace. The wizards (mostly Ponder) have figured out how to transport Rincewind to the Counterweight Continent by exchanging him for something of hopefully equal size and mass.

Rincewind winds up traveling six thousand miles at untold speed, but is saved by landing in a snow bank. He is exchanged with a cannon, which the wizards take for a firework and put out. Rincewind immediately gets himself imprisoned, but then also immediately comes across Cohen the Barbarian, and they break out together. Cohen has been having a grand old time on the Counterweight Continent, and keeping an eye on the political machinations since there’s a power shift happening at the moment. He also has his own band of co-barbarians these days, and the men he’s freed from prison now think he’s their master. Cohen tries to explain what it’s like here, that the people do as they’re told and often get slaughtered for very basic things like not paying their taxes. He introduces Rincewind to his Silver Horde of elderly barbarians, who are going to help him steal something from the walled city of Hunghung. Lord Hong has a meeting with the other warlords about the arrival of the Great Wizard, who Hong tells them will be helping the rebel Red Army. Of the other warlords, Hong believes that Lord Tang is a sympathizer, and none of the men know that Hong himself is the reason why the Great Wizard has arrived. Hong is very interested in what he’s learned about Ankh-Morpork, and believes that his genius would be better served if he were to overtake the city.

Cohen introduces Rincewind to Ronald Saveloy, who the Horde call Teach because he used to be a schoolteacher. Saveloy gives Rincewind a book that he claims will explain everything: It’s titled “What I Did On My Holidays.” Rincewind decides that he has no intention of going to Hunghung (though that’s precisely what he was told to do), so he follows Saveloy’s instructions on how to get there and does the opposite. He notices that the people in the fields he passes won’t look at him, and when he tries to engage, they quickly offer up anything they have. Rincewind tries to give them his horse and they’re horrified. He sits and begins to read the book Saveloy gave him, and finds it’s full of anecdotes about a “great city” where people say what they think and aren’t immediately punished for it. The writer seems to be shocked to find this, and Rincewind wonders if he isn’t missing something about their humor here… but given what Cohen has said about the population, he fears he’s not. What Rincewind doesn’t notice is someone approaching from behind to knock him out cold.

Commentary

Not really surprised that the curse is used verbatim, both as the title and within the book itself because… well, sensibility-wise, it really does line up with Pratchett’s brand of irony.

I’m pretty sure I haven’t read this one before? I’m kinda spotty on the Rincewind books and tend to forget which ones I’ve read, but I don’t recall this one. So that’s at least fun on the plot side of things, since I’m not quite sure where this one is going.

What does fascinate me is thinking about the decision to make the Counterweight Continent a sort of stand-in for the “east” in our own world when that obviously wasn’t the original intention when it was conceived. It’s pretty much a given that the book Rincewind is reading was written by Twoflower (I’m not wrong on that, right? It has to be.) so we’re now looking at the very first adventures of the Discworld from an alarmingly different perspective; on a first read of The Colour of Magic with no additional context, Twoflower is the consummate clueless tourist, powered by curiosity, trust, and the stalwart belief that everything will turn out okay in the end.

We’re now being given an entirely different contextual map for those events and Twoflower’s part in them. If he comes from a culture that has very little knowledge of the world beyond its borders, that makes Twoflower’s choice to vacation as he did a far more rebellious exercise than it seemed throughout those books. It also makes his choice to write a book about those events something entirely different. Suddenly, Twoflower’s unshakable optimism smacks less of cluelessness and more of radicalism. Which… I’m very into, in fact. Radical optimism in the face of unyielding control and fear-mongering.

It’s also important to remember that this book was written only a few years after the end of the Cold War because that is informing how Eastern peoples and their cultures are being framed and satirically portrayed in this book. There’s the basic playfulness with which Pratchett denotes how different the language is in the Agatean Empire, the idea that inflection can entirely change the meaning of a word. There’s also the rundown nature of the general populace, Cohen’s comments about how these people are basically slaves, but there is no whip present to ensure their obedience. As something that seems to be a reflection of the PRC at first glance (the People’s Republic of China and its Communist government), I’m curious to see where the story goes.

Additionally, there’s the introduction of Hex (a fun play on words for more than one reason), the wizards’ “computer” of a sort, which reads very much like Pratchett doing his own version of Douglas Adams’ answer to the questions of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Whereas Adams gave us the delightfully nonsensical answer of “42,” when a wizard poses the question “Why?” to Hex, it gets back: “Because.” And then to “Why anything?” we receive “Because Everything. ????? Eternal Domain Error. +++++ Redo From Start +++++.”

Which is my favorite sort of answer when people want to get super philosophical about the nature of existence. Why? Because, you soggy sack of potatoes.

Asides and little thoughts:

  • INDESTRUCTIBLE FERAL PIGEONS. Yet again, I am struck with unspeakable fondness for cities, and New York’s brand of feral pigeon in particular. They are horrifying, and you should experience them at least once in your life.
  • There are few comebacks as appropriate and scathing as Ridcully asking if Lord Vetinari knows how difficult it is to transport a person six-thousand miles by magic, and Vetinari replying: “I cherish my ignorance on the subject.”
  • I’ve come to realize that I’ve cast the actor who plays the Martok on Deep Space Nine as Ridcully in my head, and… it’s glorious.
  • Sorry, the parody of Rincewind staggering through the city and ending the escapade by saying “Well, I’m back” like Samwise Gamgee at the end of Return of the King when we’re only at the start of the book is too good.

Pratchettisms:

According to the philosopher Ly Tin Wheedle, chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.

They may look about the right size for a butterfly’s wings, but that’s only because human beings have always preferred common sense to logic.

Around it are those countries which, according to History, constitute the civilized world, i.e. a world that can support historians[…]

“I suppose… I could try to perform some great service?” said Rincewind, with the expression of one who knows that the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

A cake’s a cake. Mix the ingredients up right and cook them at the right temperature and a cake happens. No casserole requires moonbeams. No soufflé ever demanded to be mixed by a virgin.

Adventure! People talked about the idea as if it was something worthwhile, rather than a mess of bad food, no sleep, and strange people inexplicably trying to stick pointed objects in bits of you.

He’d always felt he had a right to exist as a wizard in the same way that you couldn’t do proper maths without the number 0, which wasn’t a number at all but, it if went away, would leave a lot of larger numbers looking bloody stupid.

 

Next week we’ll read up to: “Oh, dear. You could get locked up for saying things like that.”

About the Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin

Author

Emmet Asher-Perrin is the News & Entertainment Editor of Reactor. Their words can also be perused in tomes like Queers Dig Time Lords, Lost Transmissions: The Secret History of Science Fiction and Fantasy, and Uneven Futures: Strategies for Community Survival from Speculative Fiction. They cannot ride a bike or bend their wrists. You can find them on Bluesky and other social media platforms where they are mostly quiet because they'd rather talk to you face-to-face.
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3 years ago

I could’ve sworn that both Colour of Magic and Light Fantastic included mentions of the unique and rebellious nature of Twoflower’s travels, and in my head canon he was only able to make that journey due to Lord Hong’s intervention.

 

Given what we learn later in this book about Twoflower’s current circumstances, the events that befell him and his family upon his return, and the origin of the rebellion I don’t think there’s any other explanation (other than Pratchett making it up as he went along).

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Rob
3 years ago

Ah, Interesting Times. One of my all time favorite Pratchett books, and not just because its a Rincewind book.

Some aspects of Pratchett’s depiction can get uncomfortable, as you’re right, there’s a very clear “right after the Cold War” lense to some of this. The parody helps; as does the fact that the main heroes are Cohen and Rincewind, neither of whom are particularly bright or particularly trying to be heroic.

Really, one of the best aspects of this book comes from a certain character’s ferocious optimism receiving the reward it deserves.

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3 years ago

Of course, for Two Flowers and Rincewind, everything did turn out well, frequently thanks to the Luggage.

 

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Thomas
3 years ago

One of the things that has always stuck with me from this book was Rincewind’s observation that if everyone is eating bird’s nest soup and calling it a delicacy, it’s because someone more powerful has eaten the actual bird.  (Or maybe it was about people only eat pigs’ feet because the rich lord took the rest of the pig.)

 

There is also something deeply important about the idea (which will really be seen in later chapters) that the people’s revolution is being led by intellectuals for the benefit of the peasants “because they don’t know any better” which also has relevance in today’s world. 

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Gordon
3 years ago

Would Lord Hong have been in charge at the time of Colour of Magic? Would he not be a successor to the vizier that died of sushi when Mort was doing the Duty? Or have I got it wrong in placing that scene on the counterweight continent?

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3 years ago

@5 – My copy of Mort is currently out of reach, but I believe that you’re right about the scene with the Vizier taking place in the same culture as Twoflower comes from on the Counterweight Continent – there were references to a wall around the entire country, as I recall.

I think that the Counterweight Continent was intended as the equivalent of East Asia right from the start – there’s a reference to it in (I think) The Colour of Magic as “The Aurient” because of the abundance of gold there, which made the landmass heavy enough to counterbalance the rest of the Discworld continents. Nice bit of punning there.

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3 years ago

ISTM that this book has very little to do with the PRC, and a lot more to do with an elementary-school student’s summary of a few millennia of Chinese history — which summary would have been available for a long time. Also: having lived through most of the Cold War, I don’t remember it as having much to do with any perception of the East; as far as the West (for certain values of West) was concerned, the PRC didn’t exist — and when it was brought into being by Tricky Dicky and his vizier Kissinger, it was seen as unrelated. That was a mistake — but then, Kissinger was good at mistakes. When the Cold War was believed to be over, it was signaled by the collapse of the USSR; the PRC just kept quietly moving forward.

: ISTR that was soup of Pig’s Ear (the classic valueless thing), as noted by Cohen; Rincewind hadn’t been around long enough to know the local foods.

@5: In our world sushi belongs elsewhere (Japan rather than China); there are several lands on the opposite side of the Disc. OTOH, I doubt Pratchett was tracking; he seems to write over rather than retconning. (I suspect he had fanatic fans in England that far back, but he may not have drawn on them the way (e.g.) Brust does to keep all the parts of Jhereg-world in order.) OTGH, Mort had the duty 15-20 years ago (unless we’ve taken a step back in time since Soul Music), so Hong could be new since The Colour of Magic.

A Pratchettism:

No one was quite certain what forces Bloody Stupid’s designs tapped, but the chiming sundial frequently exploded, the crazy paving had committed suicide and the cast-iron garden furniture was known to have melted on three occasions. And this would be the week I’ve been reading a section of a Buster Keaton biography, with a long and loving description of the disastrous kit-based house of One Week.

And the horde member whose walking sticks have the same inscription as Hell Tanner’s hands in Damnation Alley, although I doubt Zelazny originated that idea.

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3 years ago

It’s been ages since I read this and at the start of this read I was expecting it to be The Lost Continent.

I also am interested in Two Flowers motivations. At this point (and I haven’t read ahead) he still could be a clueless tourist or a radical or even a spy, although radical seems most likely.

Looking back, Two Flowers had permission from the Sun Emperor but the Grand Vizier, Nine Turning Mirrors, told Vetinari to kill him. Nine Turning Mirrors was collected by Mort. The Sun Emperor is, presumably, also dead. Hong is the Grand Vizier.

Rather than Sun Tzu’s Art of War, Hong’s book of rules smacks of Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book although much more violent. More along the lines of the unwritten rules of Stalin or East Germany. Other than that, I don’t see much of the Cold War here.

In addition to comments on the tonal and contextual meaning of words in various languages, I appreciate the comments on alphabets versus calligraphy (similar to comments on pictograms in earlier books). For recording something, like minutes, the beauty of calligraphy is a hindrance rather than a help.

On the whole, though, this part of the book is more of a hilarious romp through UU (plus Cohen). As a computer nerd, I love Hex (and his error messages including +++++ Redo From Start +++++, an actual message I remember seeing). And wizards being wizards, not to mention Rincewind being Rincewind, is always a treat.

Pratchettisms

“A confused memory of his very recent past floated across his mind and he experienced a brief moment of regret that potatoes, while uppermost in his mind at that point, had not been similarly positioned in the mind of the young lady. No one dressed like that, he was coming to realize, could be thinking of any root vegetable.”

“There was a brief cry of ‘Oooooohhhhshhhhhh–‘ which ended abruptly, and this was probably just as well.”   “See that harm almost comes to him.”

” ‘Isn’t it dangerous going around the Hub?’ said Rincewind. ‘Used to be,’ said Cohen, grinning horribly.”

” ‘They’re the cream!’ Rincewind sighed. ‘Cohen, they’re the cheese.’ “

” ‘But…well…surely…the privation, the terrible hazards, the daily risk of death…’ Mr. Saveloy brightened up. ‘Oh, you’ve been a teacher, have you.’ “

 

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3 years ago

This is one of the very few Discworld books that I’ve only reread once (when Mark Oshiro was covering it) before now. I never liked it much, even before I was made quite so aware of how problematic it is. Pratchett is wonderful at applying parody, satire, and social commentary to the many facets of British culture, the homeland he knows intimately in all its complexity. Here he made the very un-unique move of mashing China and Japan into a medley of shallow and mostly negative stereotypes played for laughs and for an outsider’s criticism. Knowing when it was written (a time when Hong Kong was still a British colony, incidentally) doesn’t keep it from being harmful then or now, especially for many readers with personal ties to those real-world cultures. I’m not qualified to personally judge it, and I don’t want to argue about it here, but I will pass along links to the extensive criticism by Mark and the Mark Reads commenting community, including this post and this post within this week’s section. And I’m curious to see the rest of Emmet’s take on it.

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3 years ago

According to the L-space Wiki timeline, this book takes place about seven years after Eric. I don’t know why the timeline say Rincewind got trapped on that island the year before this book takes place — maybe this is hinted at later in the book — but I think it’s safe to concur with their guess that Rincewind spent much of that seven-year timespan having untold perilous adventures before he found a little piece of paradise.
 
I do love the bit with Rincewind being a teachable moment for Thieves’ Guild apprentices. 
 
I love the Silver Horde very much. Except when Pratchett uses them to make jokes like “We had a bit of trouble on the way over. I keep telling him, it’s rape the women and set fire to the houses.”

Pratchettisms

‘There was a tension to [Hex], a feeling of mute straining and striving toward some distant and incomprehensible goal. As a wizard, it was something that Ponder had only encountered before in acorns, a tiny soundless voice which said: Yes, I am but a small, green, simple object, but I dream about forests.’ 
 
‘His legs were blue from the cold and his nose was red from the wind, giving him overall quite a patriotic look if you were from the right country.’
 
‘Assassination was meat and drink to the Hunghung court. In fact, meat and drink were often the means.’
 
“They say it’s a time of portents. They — “
“I’m surprised they’ve got time to worry about the state of their camping equipment.”
[portents…poor tents…*snort*]
 
“Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad.”
 
Looking back:
 
The wizards all vigorously deny knowing about the business with the Sourcerer. 
 
Looking ahead:
 
Hex is full of computer puns, currently including a mouse and a ram skull. It will continue to acquire more computer puns.

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3 years ago

Do we ever find out who Redo from Start is?

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3 years ago

Problematic References

I count one, the rape ‘joke’.

China versus Japan. Sushi is never mentioned. Even going back to Mort, squishi is not sushi but puffer fish, a delicacy in China whose toxic internal organs are tossed back and forth before being consumed by the Grand Vizier. The tea ceremony originated in and was practiced in China. Artistic calligraphy and poetry were Chinese traditions. Even the raw fish mentioned in passing was common in China.

Culturalism. Rincewind and Cohen are two knuckleheaded tourists out of their element. They comment on what they consider strange. In this they are no different than the witches in Witches Abroad. And, like the witches, their misunderstandings make them the butt of the jokes.

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bookworm1398
3 years ago

I’ve never been to China, but when we moved to the US, one of the things that struck me and my sister was how conformist Americans were in everyday life. All the houses in the neighborhood looked the same, apparently deliberately. People agreed not to paint their own house any color they wanted and thought this was a good thing. While HOAs were the weirdest things to us, there were also plenty of other examples. People automatically forming lines everywhere. Everyone wore a seatbelt and stopped at a red light even if there were no other cars. It seemed to us like ‘people had chains in their minds.’ Or maybe, you know, they had a concept of rule of law and communal good and how that was better for everyone in the long run.

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3 years ago

The discussion has slowed so I’ll extend bookworm1398’s and wax (dribble?) philosophical. First, I’ve lived in planned suburbs (which I think were an American invention) since I was two and I find them just as odd.

But the concept of ‘chains in their minds’ hit a chord that we see often in Discworld and it is mirrored in Roundworld, although we often ignore it.

The worlds are both composed of tribes, some of geography but others of race (or species), religion, class, or, in Roundworld, politics. In both worlds the story (or historical) arcs have been towards tolerance of other tribes.

But in Roundworld, especially, the tolerance is in the form of “We accept that your views are different and you can have them but we know (through the chains in our minds) that we’re right and you’re wrong.”

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2 years ago

Hope that you feel better soon, Emmet.

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2 years ago

We look forward to a quick and full recovery, Emmet. Best wishes.

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2 years ago

Emmet, thanks for popping in to let us know. Hope you recover well.