Two pieces of news struck me recently.
First, Superman and Lois is ending with its upcoming fourth season. This bums me out, because I love that show. Tyler Hoechlin is the best live-action Superman since Christopher Reeve, and this show zeroes in on exactly who Superman really is: a nurturing father figure, and an actual family man. I’m a little nervous about the final season, because this show’s excellent supporting cast has been downgraded from regulars to “possibly making appearances,” purely due to budgetary constraints. Overall, I’m sad to see this wonderful show disappear.
Meanwhile, Marvel will put a new banner called “Marvel Spotlight” on its upcoming TV show Echo. This label signifies that Echo has only loose connections to the increasingly byzantine continuity of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and you don’t need to have watched a thousand hours of live-action Marvel content to understand what’s going on. I’m not entirely clear as to what this really means: is Echo canon in the MCU, or not? I guess we’ll find out.
The thing that unites these two pieces of news is the issue of whether TV shows should be tied into sprawling multimedia universes.
Superman and Lois was twice removed from wider DC continuity. First, it started as part of the Arrowverse, which held itself apart from the DC movies at the time, including Zack Snyder’s DCEU. (Which is why both Tyler Hoechlin and Henry Cavill could be playing Supes.) Then, by its second season, Superman and Lois was also making clear that it did not take place in the Arrowverse after all, which freed it to ignore everything that the Supergirl TV show had established, including an entire city of Kryptonians. This move also freed S&L to reinvent Lex Luthor somewhat drastically. The Echo news, on the other hand, seems to indicate a similar desire to make a TV show that is not quite so beholden to a massive interconnected saga.
I feel like studios keep learning the same lesson over and over again: shared universes are great for movies, under the right circumstances—but they tend to drag TV shows down a bit, over time. And a TV show that exists in the same universe as movies will always be secondary at best to the bigger budget, higher-stakes films. At worst, TV shows that tie in with movies will tend to become glorified bonus material for fans of the film franchise.
The classic example, of course, is Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. During its first season, MAOS worked strenuously to associate itself with the larger MCU continuity, to the point where storylines were unable to advance until the movie Captain America: Civil War had come out. As soon as Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D was cut loose from Marvel continuity, it became the best superhero to show on TV at the time, and one of the best superhero shows of all time. Agent Carter, on the other hand, had no choice but to contradict the Marvel short of the same name, because it was telling a bigger and more nuanced story about Peggy Carter’s rise to super-spy superstardom.
The Arrowverse was utterly brilliant, and I miss it every day. There is literally nothing on the air like Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman, Black Lightning, or Supergirl, and we are all poorer as a result. I loved (most of) the occasional crossovers between the different Arrowverse shows, but mostly what I adored was the vibe that these shows had: melodramatic, unabashedly whimsical, full of ludicrous plot twists. We’ll never have shows like these again, because they were so much a product of The CW as it was before it was sold off and remade into the home of FBoy Island.
And yet, I understand perfectly why Superman and Lois had to leave the Arrowverse behind. Batwoman and Supergirl were never going to clash all that much, because they took place in very different worlds: Batwoman didn’t need to feature much Kryptonian stuff, and Supergirl wasn’t about to mess around on Batman’s turf. Superman and Lois occupied exactly the same slice of DC Comics as Supergirl, so everything Supergirl established about Krypton and related topics affected this loose spin-off. You could see how this was going to become a straitjacket narratively, plus a lot of people who watch Superman and Lois have probably never seen Supergirl and shouldn’t need to have a deep knowledge of Kara Danvers’ adventures to appreciate Clark and Lois’.
TV shows are different from movies—even though some TV shows have tried in recent years to be a single extra-long movie carved up into episodic segments. Even a very serialized TV show will burn through plot after plot after plot, just to keep things interesting. A phrase I heard a lot during my stint in a couple of writers rooms was, “TV eats story for breakfast,” and it’s really true. You might think you have enough twists and turns and situations to fill out a whole season of TV, but you often burn through them faster than you thought you might. Now imagine trying to feed that ravenous beast while avoiding any storylines that might be too similar to a recent or upcoming movie in the same universe. (I honestly can’t.)
If a TV show feels as though everything is just building toward the big battle in the season finale, that’s probably not a fun TV show to watch—but that’s a perfectly good format for a movie.
For me, the pleasure of a TV show is getting to spend more time with the characters, and seeing how they change over time and how their relationships evolve. Plunging the characters into different extreme situations, one after the other, is a way to stress-test their characters and force them to grow and learn about themselves. Where a movie might give a character one fairly legible arc, a TV show might take them to all kinds of places, letting them play the hero, the villain, the fool, and the lover all in a row.
(Side note: I admire Doctor Who’s commitment to completely revamping its canon, including the Doctor’s origins, based on whatever will make an interesting story at the time. I’m not being sarcastic here—I genuinely think this is one of the show’s strengths. Case in point: Peter Capaldi’s era established that the real reason the Doctor left Gallifrey is because of a prophecy about an immortal “Hybrid” that the Time Lords were freaked out about. I don’t expect this ever to be mentioned again on TV, though I guess you never know.)
So I guess what I’m saying is that TV shows and movies have different uses for plot devices and different uses for story structures, and when you try to force them to share the same toybox, it inevitably gets messy.
Probably a huge part of the problem is just that the needs of movies will always come first: they have a much longer lead time and have to hit a single release date, and you can’t change a movie’s plot to fit something cool that the writers of a TV show set in the same universe came up with after an especially spicy lunch. A movie might have a $250 million budget and the fate of in-person moviegoing riding on its success, so making a movie work is always going to be more important.
But as someone who loves superheroes on TV more than anything, I really hope we’re finally moving away from the idea of TV shows as supplemental content to fill the gaps between big tentpole films.
This article was originally published at Happy Dancing, Charlie Jane Anders’ newsletter, available on Buttondown.
Charlie Jane Anders is the author of the young-adult trilogy Victories Greater Than Death, Dreams Bigger Than Heartbreak, and Promises Stronger Than Darkness, along with the short story collection Even Greater Mistakes. She’s also the author of Never Say You Can’t Survive (August 2021), a book about how to use creative writing to get through hard times. Her other books include The City in the Middle of the Night and All the Birds in the Sky. She co-created Escapade, a trans superhero, for Marvel Comics, and featured her in New Mutants Vol. 4 and the miniseries New Mutants: Lethal Legion. She reviews science fiction and fantasy books for The Washington Post. Her TED Talk, “Go Ahead, Dream About the Future” got 700,000 views in its first week. With Annalee Newitz, she co-hosts the podcast Our Opinions Are Correct.
It was completely predictable that making the MCU movies and streaming series depend on each other would make both completely unwatchable to casual viewers, and yet I can kind of see why they did it. After all, in principle, connecting the continuities of various film series should have limited their profitability, and yet it paid off big time for Disney, so why not throw streaming into the mix? I think that Star Trek has the right strategy of setting its series in the same continuity but far enough apart in either time or space that they don’t really interact with each other for the most part.
Ugh, yes! Cramming everything into the finale is the bane of modern television.
S&L is a decent show but in general this and the Arrowverse suffer from the usual network tv problems. Characters have juvenile and predictable motivations and reactions, there is unneccessary interpersonal debates like the old “i cant let you do this its too dangerous” sort of thing. I cant say im glad to see it go, but ill say im indifferent to it going, and im sure some more shlock is on the way.
Thanks for this. I just watched all 7 seasons of SHIELD, and it really was a fantastic show.
Also, the first season had to hold for Captain America: The Winter Soldier, not Civil War.
Let me start with this remark: “If a TV show feels as though everything is just building toward the big battle in the season finale, that’s probably not a fun TV show to watch—but that’s a perfectly good format for a movie.”
I couldn’t disagree more with this. The vast brilliance and success of Babylon 5, all of the success of Arrowverse, Buffy, Angel, and even NCIS, just to mention a few examples – all demonstrate that the author of this article is utterly incorrect about great TV viewing and the obvious success of the shows that clearly disagree with the author since they proved that they were successful and memorable for just that climactic pay off at the seasons well-deserved ending.
I, for one, watch the TV series because the characters have more time to grow and gain depth. Whereas the movies are flashy but often fail to provide the same depth that the TV series can offer. Here the Arrowverse is a shining example of how richly the characters were allowed to become, whereas the DC movies were all special effects and lackluster stories and character exploration. The Arrowverse handled the Flash’s comic book Flashpoint in a way that was more satisfying and presented more lingering effects of that event over much of the varying interlocking shows. Whereas the attempt that was done on the Big screen in the 2023 Flash movie didn’t quite pull it off for all his big-budget special effects. Ezra Miller was given lackluster material when he portrayed the character The Flash, and it shows. Whereas the Arrowverse Flash’s Grant Gustin did a much better job presenting the character. Gustin was a better actor than Miller, and the Arrowverse team of writers was clearly superior to the writers of that 2023 movie.
The Star Trek franchise is a perfect example of how to do things right. The movies and the TV series are written by people who understand how to coordinate and work together. Take, for instance, the series Piccard which clearly builds upon the last Next Generation 2002 movie Nemesis. That franchise plays to the strength of cooperation, planning, and respect given to both the TV series and their movies. Unlike the failure that the MCU showed with its own disregard for the brilliance and success of the Agents of Sheild series.
Again I disagree with the writer of this article: “(Side note: I admire Doctor Who’s commitment to completely revamping its canon, including the Doctor’s origins, based on whatever will make an interesting story at the time. I’m not being sarcastic here—I genuinely think this is one of the show’s strengths. “
The biggest mistake the Doctor Who franchise made in recent times was allowing Chris Chibnall to helm the series at all. His complete lack of appreciation for the canon that came before showed constantly throughout his lackluster reign. His Timeless Child idea was an obvious gimmick with no forethought or planning or real research and understanding of the history of who the Doctor was and the history of his past portrayals. The Timeless Child undermined the Doctor Who character and all the history that came before. Doctor Who series has tweaked his past under the direction of many writers and executive producers but at least all those writers and Executive producers that came before Chibnall offered and created a consistent recognition of the past – whereas Chibnall just appeared to want to make changes for the sake of proving that he could. In the process showing off how bad a writer and executive producer he was since he clearly had no clear understanding of the character and the history of that franchise.
#4: Couldn’t agree more about the Timeless Child. I do NOT need the Doctor to be the most special and awesome person on Gallifrey ever.
The Crisis crossover established the DC movies take place somewhere in the same multiverse as the Arrowverse. I think that’s all the connection I need. Not tying the Arrowverse in meant they could use pretty much anyone (except Batman), much as Smallville did before them. Deathstroke. Spectre. Constantine. The Anti-Monitor. Shade in Stargirl (not technically Arrowverse I guess).
Elseworlds. DC should really lean into the multiverse it created much more enthusiastically. Stargirl clearly was not in the Arrowverse; it was somewhere else, and its capsule continuity allowed it to really stretch out. Superman and Lois is the same. To the best of my recollection (which, admittedly, isn’t that good post-covid) no other hero in another city or country has been mentioned. The late, lamented Naomi, and all the streaming shows appear to be on worlds of their own.
So why not embrace it? Give each earth a name, or at least a number, and label the shows accordingly. And for the love of god, resist the temptation to tie them all together.
#4 “Babylon 5, all of the success of Arrowverse, Buffy, Angel, and even NCIS…they proved that they were successful and memorable for just that climactic pay off at the seasons well-deserved ending.”
Yeah but I can watch “Hush” from Buffy and be satisfied with the episode in a way that I can’t imagine feeling watching, say, “1893” from Loki. Or consider Star Trek: Discovery and Strange New Worlds. The first two seasons of Discovery are so serialized that despite there being good individual stories, I can’t remember them clearly against the backdrop of Lorca’s reveal and the Klingon War. Meanwhile Strange New Worlds managed to build (a bit awkwardly, but I don’t get the sense they had the same storytelling design) to an epic conclusion… and I can’t wait to rewatch “Those Old Scientists”.
That’s what the author is calling out. Not that season arcs are bad, but that there’s a problem when the show is more interested in being an eight hour movie rather than an eight hour series. Both of which can tell the same story with the same outcome, but one gives the viewer some satisfying nuggets in between. It also ensures that it’s easier to get people to watch if they know they can enjoy a bite sized chunk without committing to eight hours.
And on the subject of Timeless Child, Chibnall didn’t make the Doctor special with that. He made the Doctor more of an outcast to Time Lord society. The Doctor was useful and appreciated… and thrown away like an worn out tool. Moffat is the one who insisted on making the Doctor the Specialest Special Who Ever Specialed with all his prophecies and legends and “Who Is The Doctor” nonsense.
“Tyler Hoechlin is the best live-action Superman since Christopher Reeve, and this show zeroes in on exactly who Superman really is … Overall, I’m sad to see this wonderful show disappear.”
I agree 100% on that.
Agents of SHIELD was meaningful precisely because it grew out of the MCU films, however. While I understand why it had to play vague and ultimately pretty well diverge from the movies’ continuity, ugh, I still found that a mighty shame. Having DC or Marvel series set in universes adjacent to the most prevalent ones is a valid choice, even a desirable one depending on circumstance, but interconnected series like the core Arrow/Flash shows make for an indescribably cool milieu and there’s plenty of room for projects of varying tone and scope within a shared setting like the MCU if handled right.
I think the problem we’re talking about here is native to the superhero genre itself, specifically in the way that their comics are written.
Back in the day (in my case, the mid-80s) there was a reasonable assumption at the time that any given issue would be a satisfying reading experience. While the story might not be entirely self-contained, there was at least SOME sort of closure at the end of the issue.
Somewhere along the way, as collections became more popular, we started seeing “writing for the trade”, where a storyline could only really be appreciated by reading 4 to 6 issues at once. And as the years passed, even that changed, leading to the now-popular “season” model, where a storyline bridges multiple trades, usually on a year boundary.
And this is the environment where superhero TV shows are being created. Replace “issue” with “episode”, and it’s almost identical to what’s being discussed here.
In brief: Nobody does self-contained stories anymore. It’s all about the arc.