Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week, Alice attempted to unravel the mysteries of the Listener songs. This week we’ll deal with two of the interludes, which generally involve grumpy old men talking down to young whippersnappers.
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion, which includes Warbreaker this week.. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here. Click on through to join the discussion.
Chapter I-5: The Rider of Storms
Point of View: Eshonai
Setting: Narak, a Highstorm
Symbology: Eshonai, Taln
IN WHICH Narak prepares for a Highstorm; Eshonai discusses her upcoming meeting with the Blackthorn; she jogs into the storm to test her sister’s crazy theory; that traitor the Rider of Winds, a.k.a. Stormfather, a.k.a. Skyface, shows up to transform her; he seems annoyed and regretful about her choice of spren; Eshonai begins to transform, for what may be the last time.
Quote of the Week Chapter:
“Seven days,” Thude said. “The meeting will happen on a neutral plateau.”
What? This chapter is light on dialogue!
Commentary: When he limits himself, Sanderson can pack a lot into a short space. In this miniscule chapter we learn that the meeting with Dalinar is going forward, that only Warform Parshendi have the maddest of jumps, that Parshendi transform by walking face-first into a storm with nothing more than a pokeball and a prayer, and that Skyface is a traitor to their kind. With the transformation we move into the main plot of the book, at last, and put aside notions of human-Parshendi peace for good. All this in the time it would take Kaladin to sigh ponderously three times. Bravo, sir.
Pre-storm Eshonai is one of the more likeable characters in the series, I think. She’s dependable despite her wild past, willing to put the burden of her people on her shoulders. She loves the world she lives in, and has a history of traveling it to discover new lands. She cares for her mother and sister, but doesn’t let their visions of the world overwrite her own. She just… generally has it all together, despite the pressing crush of responsibility that facing attempted genocide will put on a person.
TOO BAD SHE LET THE HURRICANE INSIDE HER SOUL.
aggressive wind noises forever
Sprenspotting: That little red dude with lightning all over probably isn’t an angerspren, Eshonai. You’ve let a stormspren into your body, and there are going to be some changes.
Check this out:
Eshonai preferred a shield. It felt more like facing the Rider straight on. This one, the soul of the storm, was the one the humans called Stormfather—and he was not one of her people’s gods. In fact, the songs named him a traitor—a spren who had chosen to protect humans instead of the listeners.
Skyface gets all high and mighty about how Kaladin is going to betray Syl, which is pretty rich coming from some dude who betrayed all the listeners. Sounds like at least one side of this conflict is practicing extensive propaganda! If Skyface is consistent about anything, it’s his fatalistic disdain for the struggles of mortalkind. According to him, humans and Parshendi alike are going to screw up, and he isn’t going to do a thing to try to stop it. He’s a total deadbeat.
Arc Archanica: During the storm, Eshonai thinks about how “she’d have preferred to wear her Plate, but for some reason having it on interfered with the transformation process.” That’s intriguing. Shardplate must be spren-impermeable, which probably requires it to be constant between the Physical and Spiritual realms. What function do you think that protection served for the Radiants? Are humans in danger of being possessed by Odium-aligned spren? The way we saw Shardplate glow when being worn by active Radiants suggests that it’s not necessarily impermeable to Stormlight, but that might indicate a selective permeability, or a one-way permeability. Tell me more, book!
Stormwatch: Oh yeah, the Everstorm totally approaches.
Heraldic Symbolism: It’s Taln and Taln-alone week. Taln represents Dependable and Resourceful, and he’s also the dude who spent the longest time of all fighting Damnation. If any of the Heralds were to represent Eshonai, I’d think it would be Jezrien, so I assume that Taln’s monopoly on this chapter harkens to the upcoming resumption of the Desolation.
Chapter I-6: Zahel
Point of View: Zahel
Setting: Zahel’s hut
Symbology: Double eye with swords, Ishar
IN WHICH Zahel gets rudely awakened by Kaladin; Kaladin asks to be trained in swords; Zahel sayws no; Kaladin says please; Zahel says grrrrrr; Kaladin says frowns; Zahel says okay fine but now I’m going back to sleep; there is no sword.
Quote of the Other Chapter:
“Kid,” Zahel said, turning back toward him. “Two people live in this room.”
The boy frowned, looking at the single cot.
“The first,” Zahel said, “is a grouchy swordsman who has a soft spot for kids who are in over their heads. He comes out by day. The other is a very, very grouchy swordsman who finds everything and everyone utterly contemptible. He comes out when some fool wakes him at a horrid hour of the night. I suggest you ask the first man and not the second. All right?”
Storms, that quote was basically have the chapter. I think it’s funny that Kaladin has a total non-reaction to this overwrought threat. He peaces out, totally unfazed.
Commentary: My commentary is that this chapter is short, and that once you take a job as a martial instructor at age something-thousand, you don’t get to say “I’m too old for this,” Zahel.
Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before: Spoilers! Zahel is Vasher, who is one of the main characters of Warbreaker. I think we’ve covered this. You can tell by the fact that all his metaphors are totally dumb. “Don’t be green from the ground” is just… I can’t handle that. I have to walk away.
Oh, and it looks like someone misses his old psychotic bladed roommate!
Heraldic Symbolism: Ishar is a pious guide, a patient teacher, and Herald-wise I guess he’s the best approximation of Zahel’s night-grumpies that we can manage.
Shipwatch: Vasher and Nightblood, sitting in a tree. K-I-L-L-I-N-G.
Two short chapters equals one short reread post, friends and readers! Alice will round out the interludes next week, allowing us to return to the main text of the book.
Carl Engle-Laird is an editorial assistant at Tor.com, where he acquires and edits original fiction. You can follow him on Twitter here.
LOL I love the Vasher and Nightblood rhyme, but Nightblood’s seeing someone else, these days. Are you trying to ship a Szeth-Vasher-Nightblood menage-a-trois, Carl?
The Eshonai interlude just makes me sad.
One response I find fanfic tends to inspire more often than paid fic is “nope nope nope nope nope.” I think because fanfics are less obligated to deal with the fall out.
The Eshonai interlude brings it out in millions and millions of colours. Just nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. Sanderson is willing to let his characters be incredibly, terribly, and awfully wrong but this really is going too far.
Nope.
Have we the reader learned why the Stormfather choose to protect Humans over the Listeners? Also, do we know what the Stormfather thinks of the Listeners (before they all choose Stormform)?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
(aka the musespren)
If Shardplate is a spren, it is not surprising if it interferes with bonding another spren. Could a Listener accidentally bond with the Shardplate? Humans seem to bond only the Blades, not the Plate. Why can Eshonai bond a dead spren like a human if bonding living spren has a different effect for Listeners?
So far, to me, Eshonai is the largest tragedy in these books. She got sucker punched, and had her personality removed. I really like her.
We haven’t exactly gotten the Stormfather’s perspective on the Listeners, but what always strikes me in Interlude 5 is the regret in the Stormfather:
“I CANNOT STOP THIS,” the Stormfather said. “I WOULD SHELTER YOU, LITTLE ONE, IF I WERE GIVEN THAT POWER. I AM SORRY.”
Of course, this is after he asked Eshonai if it was what she wanted, but then after one moment when she was alright with it he ignored her getting distressed when she figured out something was wrong with the spren.
I think it’s safe to say he doesn’t hate the Listeners like he does humans, but he might not like them either – but more importantly, here again there’s this vague sense that he’s restricted by an odd set of rules – or thinks he is anyways.
The Zahel interlude loses some of its fun once you know it’s Vasher, but I need to remember that line for if someone wakes me up in the middle of the night (just not about the being a swordsman).
I don’t know that the timelines line up, but I have always liked the theory that Zahel/Vasher is actually the Herald Ishar after the breaking of the Oathpact and traveled to Nalthis via Shardpool
Westmarch @8 – I’ve always liked that theory too, though I can’t get anything out of Brandon one way or the other on it. Probably because I don’t think to ask quite the right questions. (Whether the travel is done via Shardpool or some other method, I don’t really care, though.)
Eshonai’s interlude makes me sad every time I read it. As mentioned above, I can’t help but feel that accepting the stormspren has made her directly a slave of the old gods, and that there’s a deeper part of her that knows it. :( I’m not sure which is worse – that she changes so much, or that part of her is still unchanged but powerless.
Zahel… I totally didn’t realize who he was until others pointed it out. And even then I didn’t quite believe it until this bit about the voice that wasn’t there. At that, I’m not sure I was completely convinced until almost the end of the book… But I do like him; even while I want to smack him and tell him to be nice to Kaladin, I’m absolutely on board with his irritation. :)
Stormfather… I’m going to have to come back to Stormfather. Every time I read this, I have to go back and read it again and again, and I still don’t quite know what to say.
I always assumed the screaming she always hears going forward is the “real” her; perhaps because of how strong her personality/willpower seemed, she wasn’t entirely subhumed. With that in mind, I haven’t ruled out that some way will be found to undo the change.
Carl, love the timeing comment. Kaladin does sigh a lot.
I like the two people comment. It also gives us more support that the “he comes” comment from Syl is about Odium.
Random question: If Shardplate is form fitted to the body, then wouldn’t her plate not fit her correctly anymore?
or does it vacuum form in place after it is put on?
It reminds me a bit of Marsh from the Hero of Ages and how he was controlled by Ruin, except I think that Odium’s control is not as powerful (because of the distance, although it’s still veeeeery high).
This comes to a pet theory of mine, that the “real” Eshonai has a small bit of influence over how she acts in Stormform – like when she decides they need to hold off summoning the Everstorm. Although there are bad reasons for doing so (would be worse if it caught the Alethi, especially because without the Oathgate they would have been screwed), it also gave the Alethi a chance to beat them (they just couldn’t do it in time).
Braid_Tug @11 – I think the Plate conforms to the body fairly quickly. There’s never any problem with poorly-fitting Shardplate for anyone, no matter what kind of shape or build they have to start with. So I’d guess Eshonai’s Plate simply adjusts to her new form when she puts it on the first time.
@11 her shardplate changes to fit whichever form she is in and she is wearing it after the transformation. That being said I’m not sure how it would react if she was transforming WHILE wearing it (if that was possible). Not sure the shardplate would change shape as fast as her shape would change O_o I think that’s a question only Sanderson would know the answer to since it strays into the realms of theory and we won’t ever see it happen in the books.
@12 a very good point and correlation with Marsh. On a related subject it seems like people who are touched by Odium or other bad forces seem to be obsessed with trying to control others. Once Eshonai is corrupted she is all about controlling the other Parshendi and Shallan’s father is constantly complaining about how people won’t just do what he orders them to do. It seems to be an underlying theme certainly with Odium and possibly with other “negative” shards. (If I had to hazard a guess I would imagine this might reflect upon the fact that, like me, Brandon is a member of the LDS church and one of the things that we believe about Satan is that he wanted people to be forced to be righteous and never have agency in this life. Satan was opposed to people having choice and maybe this idea is reflected in Brandon’s books conciously or subconsciously.)
Zahel, I noticed on a re-read that when he introduces himself to Kaladin he doesn’t say his name is Zahel, he deliberately phrases it that Zahel is what he is called.
Zahel’s ‘colorful’ idioms all seem kind of forced to me. They sound designed to make him sound Nalthisy/ey/ish/whatever, but they don’t seem very Vasherish/ated/ind. Too many awkward attempts to make reference to color
Braid_Tug@11 I always had the impression that the shardplate changed shape to fit every time it was put on. Like Iron Man’s suit. Other men can borrow the Kings plate without issue.
On the post- Stormfather definitely is kind of a jerk. “I’ll help you, maybe, but I won’t actually give you any upfront information to help you with your decisions.” He probably could tell both Kaladin and Eshonai what the results of their actions would be. He’s the great non-interventionist.
Kaladin responding peacefully to Vasher’s grumpiness doesn’t surprise me. He’s probably found someone whose attitude he can relate to pretty well for once.
Can an we do more than that for Stormwatch? This is the same storm as the Szeth attack and is 38 days before the Everstorm. When it was pointed out a few chapters ago that Syl’s freak out was the same storm as Eshonai’s transformation it was a nice Ah-ha! moment.
I-5 Heraldic Symbolism:
Eshonai is dependable and resourceful, in general, too. Just not resorceful enough to reject the evil red spren once she changes her mind. :-(
Westmarch @8 (and Wetlandernw @9)
I thought there was WoB somewhere that Zahel/Vasher is not Ishar. I got lost “forever” on 17th Shard trying to find it. And didn’t. BWS did say Vasher has only been on Roshar for 12 years (3/6/14 San Francisco WoR signing). However, it’s entirely possible BWS was telling an Aes Sedai truth, meaning this trip and Vasher had visited Roshar previously. But I’m not buying into Vasher=Ishar.
Braid_Tug @11
Shardplate adapts to the geometry of the wearer.
And…I see several people got there before me while I was lost on 17th Shard.
It’s corn and corn-alone day!
Also, regarding I-6, I think that quote was *half* the chapter? Unless the quote is posessing something? Is that quote a stormspren? Has Odium gotten into the reread?
Brian_E @10:
Yes, I also thought that screaming came from the “real Eshonai”. While the Listeners change with forms, there is a core of individuality that is uniquely they and that remains the same. Only, in the Storm Form it is not in the driving seat, alas.
Does the orange spren that intensifies Eshonai’s mindscreams show up here or will it make it’s appearance later?
Oh, and I absolutely think that she will find a way to throw out the storm spren. There must have been some “godforms” in the “Lost Legion” too, IMHO. In fact, I fully expect her fall into the chasm to result in her freeing herself. And when she realises that she has doomed her people… Well, maybe she will be broken enough for a Radiant spren then.
BTW, is it possible that one of the reasons that the Listeners are only “broth” to the spren is that they don’t crack as readily as humans? Also, if there is Listener/parsh* blood in the Horneaters (my mind still boggles re: how it could be possible), could the be human blood in some of the Listeners?
Isilel @20 – “is it possible that one of the reasons that the Listeners are only “broth” to the spren is that they don’t crack as readily as humans?”
::tilts head::
Ooooo. That never even occured to me. That would be awesome.
Isilel @20: I like the idea that Eshonai might have been freed in her fall in the chasm – maybe she gets injured enough that the stormspren abandons her (since it will have more than enough hosts soon sadly), or she somehow triggers the rejection since there was also a highstorm going on. Or maybe Thude somehow helps? I definitely think we’ll see more of him, and I hope it’s in a positive light.
And I agree with Wetlandernw above, I like that explanation for the Listeners being broth – given an equal population of humans and Listeners, if more of the humans could crack and form Nahel bonds, of course the spren would gravitate towards them.
As for why the humans and Listeners could breed…well Rosharan humans are designed, so either Honor or Cultivation must have had a reason for that, or at least it stands to reason they did. Maybe Cultivation foresaw the need for Rock, and boom: humans and Listeners could breed.
(I mean that doesn’t seem likely, but it’s technically possible?)
Joe @@@@@ 14 I hate to be nit-picky, but all we know about what Satan was about is that he “sought to destroy the agency of man.” We don’t know that he wanted to make everyone “good.” I have seen other interpretations of that scripture, which also make sense (like that he would remove consequences from actions).
Odium sure doesn’t have any pleasent plans for the peoples of Roshar…
Shardplate has to be impenatrable to spren. Otherwise it wouldn’t stop Shardblades.
I disagree with the tone as well as substance of the criticism of Stormfather. We have no independent information that he betrayed or even discontinued interacting with the Listeners. In fact, their continuing transformations require his energy and stormlight. What may be true is that he focused his attention on humans after having a relationship with the earlier Listeners. He later became disallusioned with the humans after the Radiants broke their vows and caused the death of his spren at the Recreance. He is also governed by some rules which forbid him to overtly interfere in Roshar affairs. That leaves him saying ‘I’m sorry’ when Kaladin is to be confronted by Szeth and Eshonai is being transformed by an Odin-spren. Another rule is that he must accept spoken oaths by proto-Radiants, however unwillingly, with the result that both Kaladin and Dalinar become full-fledged Radiants. This issue should become clearer as we learn more of the Cosmere dynamics.
Joe @@@@@ 14 I think its more that controlling is a very typical “evil guy” outlook. They want things the way they want it.
Is this before or after Warbreaker?
@@@@@26 this is after Warbreaker by about 300 years, near as we at 17th Shard can define the timeline.
Ways @@@@@ 17 – that WoB refers to the real world timeline for how long Brandon has been planning to have Vasher in the Stormlight Archive plot, not necessarily how long he has been on Roshar in the plot lines.
Green Hoodie Mistoborn @27
OK, looking at the context of the quote again…that’s gotta be what BWS meant. At the Seattle signing (3/2014), he told “arbron” that Zahel has been on Roshar quite a long time. What’s that mean?
IIRC, Warbreaker happens from 0 to more-or-less 300 years before WoK. But does that mean before “modern-day” Roshar or WoK prelude Roshar? Big difference.
The underlying question here is if Vasher/Zahel=Ishar.
Even if we assume the full 300-year difference (or make it 400, for the sake of argument), and that the difference is from end-Warbreaker to WoR Roshar, and that Vasher was 600 years old at the end of Warbreaker; then it seems impossible for Vasher to have been Ishar because he wasn’t born yet. OTOH, if the difference is from end-Warbreaker to WoK prelude Roshar, then it is possible (and Vasher is older than dirt or Methuselah, and has indeed been on Roshar for quite a long time).
Are you aware of any WoB that confirms or refutes the Vasher=Ishar hypothesis?
But we have no idea how old Vasher is, only when he Returned, right? Vasher himself has no memory before that. I do not believe the Vasher = Ishar theory; but I do think it is a cool theory, and for now, plausible. We just don’t have enough information to judge one way or another. My skepticism is based mostly on my assumption that guessing is usually wrong.
Before we leave old Vasher/Zahel, I would like to offer my speculations about some names used by BWS. Some of them appear to be jumbled forms of relevant words. For example, the scruffy Vasher in Warbreaker may be named as a jumble of ‘shaver’; the blue-eyed Siri may be a jumble of ‘iris’. Similarly, Zahel may be a jumble of ‘hazel’ for his possible eye color. Venli, Eshonai’s sinister sister, may be derived from ‘evil’ or villain. Sadeas may be named for the Marquis de Sade for his delight in pesonally killing surrendering Parshendi. One of the best such jumbles occurs in TWOK when Wit exclaims about the significance of nonsense words and offers ‘balderdash’, which happens to be a jumble of ‘shardblade’.
Xaladin @29
The voice in my head (heh) is telling me Vasher was 600 years old in main-story Warbreaker. I don’t have any references to support the voice, it’s been a long time since I read Warbreaker and a cursory check on the 17th Black Hole didn’t provide any info one way or the other. Am I making it up?
STBLST @30
I like that.
If Vasher IS Ishar, then his personal timeline would have to proceed like this:
1. He’s an Herald, however that happens. He does Herald-y things. Like being tortured and fighting off Desolations.
2. He abandons the Oathpact (and was the leader of the Heralds in doing so, intellectually/rationalization-wise). The Heralds go their separate ways.
3. He worldhops to Nalthis.
4. He dies. (I guess this could have happened before worldhopping, and his corpse was moved there?)
5. He becomes Returned.
6. He becomes one of the Five Scholars, one of the 3? best Awakeners in Nalthis’s history. He creates all those awakened statues, and helps create Nightblood. (All this stuff was after he was already a Returned, right?)
7. He disappears into obscurity for decades, if not centuries, of Nalthis’s history.
8. The events of Warbreaker and Nightblood happen.
9. He worldhops back to Roshar, and takes up the persona of Zahel. We don’t really know if he knows he was an Herald, or whether he goes nuts like the other Heralds …
All of this is unless the history of Nalthis is much, much longer than it seemed, and Ishar’s career as an Herald was after the Five Scholars’ heyday.
Or, you know, there’s some other reason for Ishar appearing on Zahel’s interludes, because they’re not the same person at all. I guess they’re both world-defining Scholars?