One of the things we disagree about in our house is series reading order. Families in movies always squabble about whose turn it is to take out the garbage or wash the dishes. It must be very boring to be them. However, generally where publication order and internal chronological (IC) order are different Emmet likes reading a series in publication order and I like reading them in IC order. (We first met on rec.arts.sf.written disagreeing about reading order for Womack’s Dryco books, so this is a long standing difference of opinion.) I think I mentioned when I re-read the Miles books in publication order that I always normally read them in IC order. I used to do the same with the Vlad Taltos books until with the publication of Dragon Brust made that impossible. The reason I prefer it is that with reading in publication order you can see how a writer develops and how they develop their idea of where the series is going, but by IC order you can see how the characters develop when events happen to them in order. Pamela Dean once said that you should read Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey and Maturin books in order if you normally read chapters of a book in order. That’s how I feel. Reading them out of IC order requires building a structure in my head to fit the characters and events into, with “how we got from here to there” arrows and bars as part of it. But since playing with structure and making you hold things in your head is one of Brust’s things, here we go, publication order.
I have to say that Jhereg is a very satisfying introduction to the series and to the world. There are seventeen Houses of the Dragaeran Empire, and the series is intended to have a book for each House plus an introduction and a conclusion, making nineteen in all. In each book, there’s a significant character belonging to the House in question, and also Vlad acts in the way characteristic for that House. So in Jhereg he’s hired to kill someone and it runs into complications. Jhereg begins with a little about Vlad’s early life and how he acquired a jhereg familiar — a poisonous flying lizard with human intelligence and psionic capability. It then plunges directly into the story, showing Vlad running his own area, happily married, with powerful friends, he accepts a contract for more money than he’s ever had before, we learn a lot about the world.
The way the characters are introduced as friends, and the way they work as friends, is excellent. We’re going to see in earlier-set books, these relationships beginning, we’re going to see Vlad a lot less confident, and then in later-set books we’ll see him develop a conscience. Jhereg‘s a good introduction and also a good story. This was the first Vlad book I read—I’d previously read The Phoenix Guards, which is a much less good introduction to the world. I can remember thinking with the overcast that perpetually covers the Empire and the way the Cycle works that now I got it.
If you haven’t read these, Jhereg is a fine place to start.
Spoilers from here on, potentially for everything except Iorich, which I haven’t read yet.
Chronologically, Jhereg comes about a year after Yendi and pretty much immediately before Teckla.
Thematically, Vlad spends the book trying to assassinate a member of the House of Jhereg, thus acting like a Jhereg and with the book revolving around a Jhereg. There’s also the acquisition of Loiosh in the prologue and of Rocza at the end, providing plenty of jheregs.
The actual plot of Jhereg is extremely neat. Mellar has been plotting for several hundred years to destroy the Houses of the Jhereg, the Dragon and the Dzur. He’s doing this because he’s a mixture of all three and feels underappreciated by all of them. His death at Jhereg hands in Castle Black really would accomplish what he wants. The shape of the book is really the shape of Vlad working out what’s going on. The pace of revelation is excellent, both for the Mellar plot, the world, and the revealed backstory about Vlad’s soul and the beginning of the Empire. The information about that and the Interregnum directly contradicts Paarfi, and I’m going with Vlad’s account direct from Aliera’s mouth here. I also very much like the way everyone has to go around Morrolan’s code of honor and the Jhereg code of honor—the idea that they’d recover from a war in ten thousand years, but if they lost their reputation they’d never recover.
Despite trying hard, I can’t see any set-up here for the unhappy marriage in Teckla. There’s some in Yendi, but here I don’t think it’s Vlad being oblivious, I’m not seeing it either. Cawti would like to work, sure, but that’s all. I remember when I first read it liking very much that there wasn’t a romantic subplot—romances and divorces are common in fiction, people who are quietly happily married all through a book are notably rare. Oh well.
Neat little things: Vlad’s vision, including Devera. We know what almost all these bits are now?
There is a cry of “charge” and five thousand Dragons come storming at the place the Eastern army is entrenched. [Dragon] Making love with Cawti that first time—the moment of entry even more than the moment of release. I wonder if she plans to kill me before we’re finished and I don’t really care. [Yendi] The Dzur hero, coming alone to Dzur Mountain, sees Sethra Lavode stand up before him, Iceflame in her hand. [???] A small girlchild with big brown eyes looks at me, and smiles. [Devera getting everywhere as usual] The energy bolt, visible as a black wave, streaks towards me, and I swing Spellbreaker at it, wondering if it will work. [Issola] Aliera stands up before the shadow of Kieron the Conquerer, there in the midst of the Halls of Judgement, in the Paths of the Dead beyond Deathsgate Falls. [Taltos]
I’ve always wondered how much of the whole story he knew before he started it and how much he’s making up as he goes along, and this implies “lots”. It must take a lot of confidence to make a first novel the start of a nineteen book series.
Other cool things: it sets up an insoluble problem and then finds a very satisfactory solution to it. Also, Brust is doing a thing where he has a wisecracking assassin professional criminal and you accept him as a good guy. He’s setting that up for undermining later, but it’s worth noting the way he takes genre conventions here (as with Agyar) and uses them to mess with your head.
Jo Walton is a science fiction and fantasy writer. She’s published eight novels, most recently Half a Crown and Lifelode, and two poetry collections. She reads a lot, and blogs about it here regularly. She comes from Wales but lives in Montreal where the food and books are more varied.
I remember reading Jhereg the first time and could not but help think that Brust must be one of the coolest authors on Earth. This was the first novel I read by him and it catapulted me through, I believe, all of his published writing.
In Vladimir, he created a character that was both, at first, shallow and deep. This was reflected in his ease of discussing past assassinations and his trepidation in meeting with the Demon, a not-so-bad at least one-time assassin himself.
I have to say I am in the school of reading the books in published order (imagine if your tried reading Modessitt Order/Chaos series in IC…I think I would go insane) and feel that Jhereg is both a great story in and of itself and a great place to start.
Jhereg was the first of the series volumes I read too.
Since I’ve read as many of the others as I can. Alas, I haven’t been able to get hold of Issola and The Phoenix Guards.
A nice moment this past spring: walking through Washington Square Park as I do several times a week, I spied a fellow on one of the benches reading Dzur, which I’d just finished. We had a conversation but I made sure it was brief because he was reading on his break, and I didn’t want to interrupt.
In response to Chronological vs Publication, usually prefer the first, but I have one very major exception: The Chronicles of Narnia. If I had started that series with The Magician’s Nephew at age 11, I might never have kept going, and I worry that it might turn off potential young readers from discovering the series. I can’t imagine ever starting anywhere but The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.
The two prequel books just don’t have much going for them, in my opinion, unless you already love Narnia. And the first several books in publication order DO follow a chronological timeline, until Lewis decided to start skipping backwards in time. And yet you can’t find the series collected in publication order anywhere anymore. It’s very vexing.
Kender @@@@@ 3, re your last sentence but one: I’ve heard (from a bookstore owner) that that’s because Lewis’ heir decreed that the series should only be offered in IC order. Take that as the rumor it is, though.
Edited to add: I thought about it some more and remembered that the person who told me was prone to making things up if he didn’t know the answer to a question, so I checked on Wikipedia, and what do you know, it agrees.
From the time I tried rereading the Taltos books in IC order, I discovered that Jhereg introduces a lot of central concepts to the series much better than the books chronologically before it. Plus it is still a favourite in the series. But I’m sure I’d still reread the series in IC order, the way I do with Bujold.
The first Narnia set I had, had The Magician’s Nephew first. My wife apparently grew up with a set that had them numbered in publication order, and that’s the order I read them to my eldest son, as I recall. I didn’t mind TMN at all, myself, when I first read the series. Or even The Horse And His Boy.
The Taltos series should probably be read in publication order. I read it in loosely publication, but skipped Teckla until recently.
I’m trying an interesting experiment in which I read Dumas’s D’Artagnan romances and Brust’s Khaavren romances alternating, back and forth one after another. I kind of stalled out because The Viscount of Bragelonne is pretty boring. Hopefully Brust’s counterpart of it is more interesting.
Relogical: Brust’s version is definitely not boring.
I haven’t read a lot by Brust, but I’ll put him on my list.
I initially read the Miles books in IC, but lately I’ve been re-reading them out of order, by whim. It’s fun that way too, when you don’t have to worry about spoilers.
I generally prefer pub order because that’s how the author revealed the world and little bits can be expanded on later and knowing the story changes the meaning.
But I suspect that’s not a new argument.
I’ve got this sense from reading two books and listening to Brust talk that’s he’s making a lot of things up as he’s going along – but he’s just so *good* at it that you don’t quite notice and when you do, you realize he still did it better than you could have guessed.
I generally read a series in publication order the first time, and then decide whether to re-read it in publication or internal chronological order — usually both, on different re-reads. With Narnia, though I usually re-read in internal order, and though I like The Magician’s Nephew better than The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe I think it’s best to read the series for the first time in publication order. With Taltos, too, I think publication order probably works better, since Jhereg introduces the world better than any of the other books, and since some of the prequel volumes have more resonance if you know what’s to happen later.
As an introduction to Brust’s work in general, though, I’d rank Jhereg below several of his stand-alone novels, particularly Agyar and The Sun, the Moon and the Stars.
I generally prefer pub order because that’s how the author revealed the world and little bits can be expanded on later and knowing the story changes the meaning.
But I suspect that’s not a new argument.
I think that’s true in general, and the Vlad and Narnia books are good examples. Also, the first book in publication order is the only one that is definitely written for an audience unfamiliar with the series and its world, so reading out of publication order can be somewhat disorienting in some cases.
If the author plans far enough ahead, a book out of chronological order could be just as intentional as a chapter or movie scene out of chronological order. (One possible example: Vlad’s divergent stories about his finger, which set up the reader’s interest in finding out what really happened to it.)
But I think the Vorkosigan series is an exception: publication order would break up the two Cordelia-centered books which IMO belong together, and jump from a book in which Miles is the main character to one in which he is the MacGuffin, and then back again.
P.S. I’m a bit puzzled by the mention of Aubrey/Maturin in this context — I thought that their publication order *was* their chronological order.
ChristopherByler: Yes, their publication order is their chronological order. There are 20 of them, however, and the one people find after having heard the series praised isn’t necessarily going to be the first one. I read them in totally random order as I found them in libraries and then as my inter-library loans randomly got to me.
I try to read books in publication order as well. I agree with you that it was nice not to have a romantic subplot in this book. I didnt even mind it in the second, however, I do find Cawti in later books too self righteous. Brust does a lot of things well, but romance is not his strong suit.
I think it is also in this book or the next that Vlad finds out he is a reincarnation of one of the prime movers of the Empire, which I think is still going to be a major factor in his later books.
I read Jhereg when it was first published, and I remember thinking that it had been profoundly influenced by the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game.
Rutherfordr@14: It is certainly commonly asserted in RPG circles that the Vlad Taltos novels grew out of an RPG campaign. I have specifically heard it claimed that Vlad’s secretary/sidekick character who’s super-hard-to-notice is a reference to a character whose player frequently missed sessions, and so the character would fade into the background.
That said, I have never seen any first-hand evidence that this is true.
Brust is a great example of a writer where there is more going on underneath then you can see at first glance. As genre capers, his books satisfy, but I find as I read the Dragaera books his commitment to genuine character development really deepens the series in a way that sets it apart from many superficially similar fantasies.
This said, I find the “wisecrack” angles easily the weakest parts of any of the books, I find them juvenile and genuinely unfunny – a kid’s idea of something that would be cool. He should take some lessons from Vance for banter.
Countering that his the naming guide at the front of many of the volumes. I love that he took the time.
Can you hear me scream “Uncle!” Jo? :-)
I feel as though your recent sequence of posts re Brust’s fantasy novels are a covert suggestion to me to climb out of my rabbit-warren, and sample all that Steve has to offer.
Perhaps of interest, Brokedown Palace has been on my wish list for several weeks, but, okay, I will buy Jhereg first and asap. Yours is yet another glowingly positive recommendation.
Thank you.
I’ve just finished reading through the series in publication order after reading through The Phoenix Guards (etc.) (That was prompted by a play version of the Three Musketeers, which I don’t have a copy of…)
Some things work best in publication order and some in IC order. I have Modesitt’s books shelved in IC order, but I generally read them any way I please because I don’t always want to go through the series. On Narnia, I’ve seen some interesting breakdowns of Narnia as related to the books of the Bible, with LWW being Exodus (perhaps the most central book in the Old Testament.) (It wasn’t presented as deliberate, just “Hey, this is a cool parallel.”)
As to the future book references, I recall seeing an interview with Neil Gaiman in regards to Sandman, and how he would throw a bunch of references in that sounded as though they were cool. Then, if he found a good place to use one, everyone would be impressed with his foresight. It’s possible that those future refs are a combination of things Brust knew he would use (Devera) and things he was pretty sure would fit in somewhere (using Spellbreaker in a particular manner.)
P.S. I would dearly love if Tor were to put out omnibus editions of some of the uncollected books to go with the ones Ace put out. Shelf space is a premium but I sure do love trade size. (Only if it makes financial sense to do so, of course.)
On a first read, I always follow the publication order for a series, so I can be attentive to how the author wants the story to unfold. But I LOVE to re-read my favorites. When I do that, I do it in IC order. I am, in fact, re-reading the Jhereg series right now on plane flights. I’m backlogged, and have greedily stashed away the last two books in the series, unread, waiting for my next long flight. I have a tendency to go back and re-read the entirety of a series any time the author comes out with a new book, just for fun, so something with as many volumes as Jhereg can take some time.
Pax
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Reading order for series is often an issue — basically any time publication order doesn’t match internal chronology, which is fairly frequent in SF and fantasy.
Good authors pretty universally get better during their careers. So starting with the first published works is not seeing the author at their best. However, it IS seeing the works that hooked readers and made the series successful in the first place, and that seems like a strong argument. Still, quite a few people struggle with O’Brian’s Master and Commander, and get hooked if they make it on to Post Captain (I loved the first one, myself, though I can see some of the ways it differs from later that people might not like.)
I read the Hornblower books in fairly random order (what was available from the library that week), and that worked out for me. Of course, being the chronology of one life, there was a single thread running through the story that let me relate things, even if I missed details.
I read the Nero Wolf books in pretty much random order, and that works fine for me. They were set contemporarily when written, but there’s essentially no development in the main characters throughout the series, and the background just tracks history (lagging quite a bit, towards the end).
The really strange one was reading the Anthony Price novels in random order (as I found them on the racks in train station bookstores in England in 1987, to begin with). Those DO have significant character development, and complex sets of characters (there isn’t a straight-forward protagonist carrying through the whole series; David Audley appears everywhere but isn’t central in all of the books). And I was just lucky that I didn’t hit the big spoiler out of order.
Once a series is an old friend, read whatever bits you want whenever you want, of course.
Jhereg was Steven’s first published novel. I think he has gotten better, but this first success stands up very well over all this time for me.
DD-B: As far as the Audley books go, I read Soldier No More first. But I still think it’s a perfectly good place to start the series.
“I’d previously read The Phoenix Guards, which is a much less good introduction to the world.”
Agreed. I suspect that this is due to Brust deliberately not including anything which Paarfi would not have bothered to mention, because it was too well-known to his (indigenous) audience. I actually got tripped up by it in a different way — I went in with some assumptions about the way the world worked that weren’t true until *after* the Interregnum!
If you are interested in details of the internal chronology, allow me to plug my OCD compilation and analysis of such information, The Dragaera Timeline.
Regarding Aliera’s reliability as a source of history, Steven Brust wrote (in rec.arts.sf.written, 7/16/97): “Aliera got her stories tangled, is all. She’s referring to the incident of the Goblets, which happened well before Adron’s move, and only indirectly had anything to do with it. Aliera doesn’t know as much history as she thinks she does, and tends toward tunnelvision. And, besides, Daddy couldn’t have done anything really wrong.”
“Despite trying hard, I can’t see any set-up here for the unhappy marriage in Teckla.”
Squinted at, that can be seen as a narrative strength. Vlad himself, our narrator, is blissfully unaware of any issues at this point. (That does beg the question of when the narration of the various books takes place. Examining that is a project on my to-do list…)
One piece of advice on the Nero Wolfe novels, mentioned at #20: mostly they can be read in any order, but don’t read A Family Affair until you’ve read a good chunk of the other books, preferably including Death of a Doxy. If you’ve grown comfortable with Wolfe’s little world that final novel packs quite a punch; if not, you won’t get the full effect.
Re-reading in publication order when you’ve read it all before does sometimes make you wonder just how much was planned in advance.
For instance, I was struck by the line near the beginning of Chapter 15, “Maybe I should arrange to forget most of this.”
And then in Dzur, If I remember correctly, he starts remembering huge chunks of experience that had been blocked off.
I found myself wondering if this was random coincidence, of SKZB knew what he was going to have happen that far in advance.
When I was re-reading Jhereg this past weekend I noticed something I hadn’t before: at the same time that we learn that Vlad is an assassin, we learn that death isn’t always permanent on his world, which takes some of the sting out of learning his profession. I suspect I’d have found him a much less sympathetic character on my first read if that hadn’t been there, and I wonder for how many other readers that’s also the case.
Aedifica: I don’t know that it helps all that much. I mean, if you heard he went around beating people up, which wouldn’t kill them, would that be better? I think the thing that helps is that he doesn’t kill Easterners and he thinks he’s getting paid to kill Dragaerans who he hates anyway. This is kind of racist, and Vlad figures that out later, and hopefully we do too, but at the beginning it makes sense and makes him more sympathetic. He isn’t killing random people for money, he’s killing enemies… and we never see him kill someone who didn’t deserve it.
He did Morganti hits on occasion, too, IIRC or made bodies un-revifiable. Also, ressurection is expensive in this world and not all of his victims could afford it.
Jo, I don’t think that it really is that much better, but I think it made it more palatable to me and got me to give Vlad more of a chance. But it’s been a long time since my first reading, so this is reconstruction. (And Isilel, I know he did, but I didn’t know that yet then!)
Well, no one cares but me, Jo,
But I thought I would mention that I completely miss the magic of these books. JHEREG proved a slog — only 1 chapter proved of page-turning interest (chapter 9, I think) — but I forced my way through.
And bogged down 50-100 pages into the next book. (Part 2 of THE BOOK OF JHEREG. Sheesh, I do not even recall its title!) I gave up.
God, what do I miss?! Steve is such an excellent writer, but I could not care less about these characters.
Michael Sullivan:
“It is certainly commonly asserted in RPG circles that the Vlad Taltos
novels grew out of an RPG campaign. I have specifically heard it
claimed that Vlad’s secretary/sidekick character who’s
super-hard-to-notice is a reference to a character whose player
frequently missed sessions, and so the character would fade into the
background. That said, I have never seen any first-hand evidence that this is true.”
Steve was running a role playing game based on his world/mythology in the Twin Cities before he sold JHEREG and was also publishing some material based on the world in the local apa, MINNEAPA. I recall hearing of a session which ended with the top of Dzur Mountain being blown off…
But I was no longer in MINNEAPA at the time stuff ran there, and I knew of the RPG sessions only by report. I did hear that several characters in the stories were based in varous degrees on local fans and/or gamers. (And I eventually got Tuckerized by Steve as Deleen the Tsalmoth librarian in DZUR, which tickled me.)
I
For the record: Yes, they were somewhat based on RPG sessions. No, Kragar’s character didn’t miss sessions. He would always be there, squished into a corner, being so quiet that all of us, including the DM, would forget he was there until after the battle, at which point the DM (Robert Morgan) would say, “Well, I guess they didn’t notice you.” It happened a lot.