On November 3, The Wheel of Time Companion encyclopedia will reveal some of Robert Jordan’s worldbuilding files (and by “some” we mean “800+ pages worth”), but you can get a sneak peek now on Tor.com!
The “Spin the Wheel” series on Tor.com gives readers a chance to choose which entries get revealed in these sneak peeks and it looks like our first randomly generated pick is a big one! Congrats to Comment #11 Samadai for selecting “Men’s One Power scale”!
And congrats to Wheel of Time readers, because that means they get the entirety of the “Strength in the One Power” entry, which details how power levels work for both men and women!
Strength in the One Power varied greatly across individuals. Men strong in the Power were usually considerably stronger than women strong in the Power. This is not to say that some women were not stronger than some men, just that the general form ran the other way.
This strength was a matter of the sheer raw amount of the One Power that could be drawn. In kind, there was nothing a man could do with any part of the Power that a woman could not and vice versa. There were, however, areas where women showed greater abilities and areas where men did. Additionally, of the Five Powers—Earth, Air (or Wind), Fire, Water and Spirit—women generally had the greatest strength and ability in Air and/or Water, while men generally had the greatest in Earth and/or Fire. That is to say, men were generally much more adept than women in weaving Fire and Earth; they were usually able to handle much more of these as well, which followed from the greater raw strength. Women were generally much more adept than men in weaving Air and Water; despite men’s greater raw strength, in these two areas women were in general stronger than men. Ability in Spirit was usually considered to be equally divided; there seemed to be no advantage, either male or female.
Women who could channel could sense the ability in one another and also sense their relative strengths. Among women, the eventual strength of a testee was determined in the first testing. It would take time for her to reach it—and indeed, if she did not work, it was possible that she would not reach it, because it was a potential—but the limits of her strength were known up front. No one ever surpassed the detected limit. Female strength usually—but not always—grew in a smooth progression, and often the stronger she would eventually become, the more quickly it grew. This was not a hard and fast rule, though. Forcing, which was forcing the woman to use more of the Power and do more, could bring on faster increases in strength, but it also ran the greatly increased risk of burnout or death. There were also frequent individual variations in this speed of growth. Hierarchy among Aes Sedai was based in part on relative strength.
Among men, there was no way of knowing how strong a beginner would become. It was not unusual for men to show as much raw strength at their first testing as a woman who had worked for some time, but there was no way to know how far he would go beyond that, if at all, or how long it would take him to reach his upper limit. Male strength levels usually, but not always, increased in spurts and plateaus, with the intensity and duration of the spurts, as well as the duration of the plateaus, usually uneven. Thus a man might test stronger than a woman only to see her pass him, then spurt to pass her, then have her pass him again because he reached a plateau; this could repeat a number of times until their full strengths were reached. Needless to say, as with women, a man who did not work hard would not go as far as he might otherwise, but in his case, no one would ever be sure that he had not reached his full potential.
Men usually took longer to reach their full strength than women did. Most women took about ten years to do so. It was very likely no coincidence that this was the same amount of time as most novices took to be raised Accepted, although the correlation was not exact. Women sometimes reached their peak strength and remained novices because they had not learned enough or gained sufficient skill, while others were raised Accepted or even Aes Sedai while still short of that peak. It was learning and skill, not strength, that were the keys there. Again, this was not a hard and fast rule; some women took as long as fifteen years to achieve full strength, while a few managed it in as little as seven or eight. Most men took about fifteen years to reach peak strength. For both men and women, of course, the rate of increase in strength could be sped up dramatically by forcing, but this also entailed dangers of burnout or death. Men were somewhat more resistant to the dangers of forcing than
women, but not by a large amount.
For some reason, the age when a man or woman began to channel seemed to make a difference in their rate of progress. While a given person’s peak strength would be the same whether he or she began learning at fifteen or at fifty, they would reach that peak faster at an older age.
Among both men and women strength and skill were not the same thing. It was possible for one person to have great raw strength yet be less effective in many situations than another who had lesser strength but greater dexterity with the flows or greater knowledge in using them. While there were limits to strength for anyone—there was a certain upper limit which could never be surpassed—there were no real limits to increasing skill. Anyone could increase their knowledge, though of course, some would have greater ability to
increase dexterity with the flows than others. Having been born with the inherent spark apparently was not an indicator of strength. There were as many with weak potential who would channel whether they were taught or not as there were with great potential.
Before the appearance of Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, Aviendha and Nicola, there were 60 base levels of strength, each of which had internal gradations, for women who were strong enough to be raised to the shawl. After their appearance, there were 72 base levels.
The earlier distribution of Aes Sedai strengths thus ran from 1 to 60, which became 13 to 72. Women below the lowest level at which someone could become Aes Sedai were trained, but with the knowledge that they would be put out; a few received the ring for political reasons, as with Morgase. There was, of course, also the need to consider Aes Sedai reluctance to let go of a woman once they had their hands on her. Non–Aes Sedai changed this distribution to a considerable extent. Both Atha’an Miere Windfinders and Aiel Wise Ones had no lower limit for full acceptance in their organizations.
Rating men against this scale (that is, comparing strength in saidin to strength in saidar), there were an additional six possible levels for men at the top end. While this was true in terms of bulk amounts of the Power that men could handle, certain vulnerabilities on the part of men, and others on the part of women, made a direct comparison difficult at best. Still, one-on-one, looking only at pure strength and avoiding the advantages of dexterity, length of practice and skill, the top level for a man was usually no more than a match for the top level for a woman.
Thus the strongest man would be ++1, the 800-year level in aging. Ranks ++2 to ++6 would have an aging range of 720 to 800 years. The strongest woman would be 1(+12), with a life expectancy of around 800 years; a man of the same rough level, which was 7, would have a life expectancy of 720 years.
There were considerable variations between individuals, but in rough form it could be said that there was a parallel between strength and longevity, minus the effects of a binder such as the Oath Rod. All age levels given were approximations, with considerable room for variation among individuals. For example, at the so-called 800-year level, a person could reasonably be expected to live to between roughly 775 and 825 years of age, with some making it to 850, and a very few making it to as much as 900. Strength level 56(44) was the 300-year age level, 67(55) the 200-year age level, and the bottom level, 72(60), approximately the 150-year level for women. The male equivalents were approximately the 240-year, 180-year, and 135-year levels for men.
A given strength level did not produce the same degree of longevity for a man as for a woman. At any given level of equality, a woman would live longer. In general, a man at any given strength would have a normal lifespan roughly ten percent less than that of a woman of that strength. The range of longevity was the same, though, with men at their top level having a life expectancy of 800 years or so, within the range of the bell curves.
While there were six additional levels for men above those for women, the disparity was not as great as it seemed, measuring the bulk quantity of the One Power that a person could handle. Adding in the greater dexterity of women in weaving, a woman at the top level might well be roughly equal to a man in the top level in a stand-up one-on-one fight.
Watch for more Wheel of Time Companion and Spin the Wheel coverage through this tag.
Lord of Chaos ebook art by Greg Manchess
Huh… the PowerGirls only added 12 levels to the ladder? I got the impression they were more powerful than that. Heck, I got the impression that compared to the wielders of the One Power in the Age of Legends (which the PowerGirls were the equivalent of) the “current” Aes Sedai were much weaker.
Seriously, though, having never read the series, how do they test for a person’s level? Is there a dipstick? A carnival “Test your strength” machine? A floating ball like in Forbidden Planet?
@3 Women just know, I think. They see a woman and know she can channel and about how much. I imagine the White Tower has a fancy way of converting ability into numbers.
With men, I think they had to actually hold the Power to figure out the max strength. So they’d draw in as much as they could and other male chanellers could feel how strong they are. Sort of like pouring water into a bucket to see how big the bucket is. Overfilling is somewhat more dangerous though.
And while there are no endings or beginnings to the Wheel of Time, this is a beginning to the nerdery.
Did everyone else know that longevity is linked to power? Did I miss that somewhere in the books? I remember characters speculating that the Oath Rod limited lifespans, but that is it.
Did everyone else know that longevity is linked to power? Did I miss that somewhere in the books? I remember characters speculating that the Oath Rod limited lifespans, but that is it.
Same here! I had no idea it was linked to lifespan and this is actually fairly key to an upcoming theory post we have…
Kibs @5: It’s never stated in the books, but it was commonly accepted in the community. I think it’s largely based on Morgase’s youthful appearance despite her near-inability to channel and the fact that the oldest Aes Sedai we knew about were all very strong (e.g., Cadsuane).
@1: I think it is saying that 60 was the upper limit along the bell curve. But being that those five added 12 levels, at least one of them (probably Nynaeve or Nicola) was a 72. So while the other Aes Sedai could get up to 60, finding a 60 would be extremely rare. Assuming the average was around 30 (this actually doesn’t really say), then Nynaeve would be 42 levels above an Average Aes Sedai, so almost 2.5 times raw strength. Assuming a truncated normal distribution (for lack of more information) with a mean of 30 and standard deviation of 10 for simplicity’s sake, almost 98% of prior Aes Sedai would be at or below 50. So again, Nynaeve at 72 would have about 1.4 times the raw power of an Aes Sedai at the 98th percentile. So yeah, I would say that is a huge difference.
It also doesn’t mention when this power scale was created; it may have been passed down through Aes Sedai law since the formation of the post-Breaking all female Aes Sedai order. So maybe it’s even been a few hundred years since the White Tower’s even seen a 60. That would also make the new comers seem a lot stronger.
Didn’t we already have access to like 98% of the information in this post?
If this companion is just going to re-hash info we can find online I’m gonna be quite sad.
GIVE ME TALMANES!
-Bims
Although not explicitly stated, I got that impression through the examples in the books of people who channelled but were not exposed to the oath rod, notable examples being:
The women of the knitting circle who’s members took care to not remain in one place for fear of people noticing their longevity.
Alvia of the Seanchan who is extremely strong in the power and is in excess of 400 years old.
Re: power levels, isn’t the text actually saying that it’s a finer gradation of lower levels?
That says old-1 mapped to new-13 and old-60 to new-72 (thus not increasing the ceiling), which means new-1 through new-12 are newly-specified low levels of power, appropriate for the new retention of women who would have previously been turned out.
@11:
I think You have it backwards – it is an inverted scale. 1 is the most powerful, 72 is the weakest. Anyone weaker (higher) than 60 on the old scale was too weak to advance to Aes Sedai.
Most of it is presented in the books, yes, but this DOES allow us to derive a lower limit for even weaker channelers like Sorilea, since she’s implied to be older than 300 but not even strong enough to be accepted as a novice.
@9: I had the same thought… I guess I was wishing for a little more narrative/backstory that we hadn’t heard before and a little less encyclopedia… this reads like the WoT RPG manual… hopefully the next one will be better.
Well, but it’s always been presented as essentially an encyclopedia – just the most complete and accurate one possible, as opposed to the previous BBoBA. So I think you can expect it to read more or less like an encyclopedia, and we’ll get some good background on people and events that just didn’t fit into the story-telling. I would expect that there will be an entry for Talmanes, but what it contains will depend on how much more there was in the notes about him. If RJ didn’t have more notes on a subject, I don’t think Harriet intended to make anything up.
There’s not going to be much extra information besides what was presented in the series in this requested section. There’s not much more to detail. I expect the other sections to have more information, and even this has some nice specifics that aren’t in the series.
Strange. When talking about “base levels of strength” in women it’s apparent they refer to the post-Breaking, exclusively female White Tower, based on the fact the scale had to be increased after the emergence of Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, Aviendha and Nicola. I mean, they’re not really suggesting Elayne, Egwene and Co. were so much stronger in the Power than even female Aes Sedai from the AoL that knew grades had to be added? We know, what was it, 2-3 of the female Forsaken were *as* strong or more so than the strongest Aes Sedai of the Third Age (Nynaeve etc.), and I’m sure there were plenty of other AoL female Aes Sedai who were on par or stronger. So I have to assume these “base levels of strength” were formulated post-Breaking…right? The strange thing then is, that it goes on to use this same contrivance to categorise base levels in men, which *must* be basing things on pre-Breaking male Aes Sedai — as who else? (I doubt the sample of captured False Dragons who be big enough lol). Yet mention is never made of that fact. Something doesn’t seem right there. Is knowledge of base strength levels in men likely to have survived the Breaking? And would the formula they used in the Third Age to measure women have been applicable during the AoL considering the greater strength in the Power women had then? Er…both seem unlikely.
@12: That makes a lot more sense.
I don’t believe Nynaeve is at 1. Alivia and Talaan are said to be stronger, as are Graendal and Lanfear. Pre-death Lanfear was “thought to be as strong as it was possible to be”, which would equate with 1 and a precision with her weaving that made her the equal of the ++6 males (which at least included Rand and Elan).
I agree with FunBob. And I figure that the reason there are detailed numbers for men is that this is coming from the notes Jordan had about the inner workings of the world. The whole point is that it is information not shown clearly in the books. The male information was given so we would understand how they relate to the women, not necessarily because the Aes Sedai had that in their files as well.
At the beginning of the post I was super excited that I might get to see a breakdown of each of the channeling characters relative strengths. Was super disappointed that it turned out to be a breakdown of details about strength in the Power without any way to really apply it to our favorite characters.
This post was only slightly redeemed by the presence of a firm confirmation about age as it relates to strength.
@19: Are we sure Nynaeve is weaker than Graendal in terms of potential? I know Nynaeve is even with Moghedien in Book 4 or 5 (I forget which) but she’s surely not at her full strength at that point. I’m certain Nynaeve’s potential is less than Lanfears, but I always thought her top level would be around Graendal.
How does this explain the anomaly of the young heros, then? The series is much shorter than six or seven years, yet they all seem to reach their peak strength very quickly (Rand, Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha. Nynaeve can be explained away that she has been channeling blocked for a number of years).
I was kind of hoping to see a list too, but this is an interesting tidbit. But I also was trying to figure out if the ratings were meant to be pre-AOL or not, if the SuperGirls ‘broke’ the scale.
WhiteVoodoo, Lisamarie: I agree I was hoping for a list. I’m now holding out hope that it’s in an appendix or a table supplementing this entry. :-)
DigitalNative @23 – Whether or not Our Young Heroes have reached their full potential, all of them were most definitely forced – Egwene and Rand in particular.
I don’t get the numbers at all. ++1?
@@@@@ 26: I thought Egwene was the only one of the girls who was forced? Or is it just that she was intentionally forced by her teachers, whereas the others were forced more by being in situations which pushed them to their limits?
I certainly have the impression that Egwene had reached her full potential by the end of the series, whereas Elayne had not – but I can’t remember where that idea came from.
Putting every AS, Wise One, Kin, Windfinder, Forsaken and Ashaman in one table probably is too big. Maybe the entries for specific characters give their strength.
For everyone mentioning they never talk about the Oath Rod limiting an Aes Sedai’s lifespan in the books, they definitely do. I don’t have page numbers, but I know that Egwene has to specifically go against advice from Nynaeve and Elayne regarding forcing sisters to take the oaths and the entire debate was because they figured out that not taking the oaths lengthened their lives – which was figured out after they met the Kin and learned their ages.
Egwene was forced during her captivity with the Seachean, She was made to hold as much as she could and reach for more. Oh, and blow up trees!!!
I hope there is something more in another entry that delineates how the individuals compare. Before Nynaeve raised the Aes Sedai top from 60 to 72, I’m guessing Cadsuane was 60?
I remember debate about Nicola so this at least verifies she was stronger than Cadsuane in potential.
Though if Nynaeve is 72 shouldn’t Sharina have raised that bar considerably? I hope that is addressed somewhere as well (maybe Sharina’s individual entry).
I do think that much of this information is gathered from around the books, but it does put everything in order
Can someone confirm this for me, which is a stronger power level 1 or 60? Do I want to be #1 !! or do I want my power level to be over 9000?
If the hierarchy works off of “I’m the best so I’m #1” sort of construction, why would the appearence of the super girls & co. force a change to the structure (1-60 before SF, 13-72 after).
Any help is appreciated.
My understanding is that change in ranking was for the current A.S.
That is, if you were an A.S. prior to the ‘super girls’ you ranking was changed from X to X+12
The actual ranking of the S.G.’s (and presumably many of the Forsaken) then is somewhere between 1 and 11
AS ‘rejection’ power level did not change, just the numbering. The lowest level of ‘accepted’ power used to be 60 and after it became 72
UncrownedKing
I mis typed in my post. But I think that with the addition of Nynaeve, what was 1 in the Aes Sedai (which by my logic would have been Cadsuane — unless there is a very defined ‘once dead or considered dead, levels get rebooted) was now 13.
So the lower the number, the higher the level of One Power. 1 is the best.
I’m curious about how it mentions 60 levels of Aes Sedai strength. Which puts a life span of 150 years. Now is that the weakest AS? Or the weakest woman who can channel (Morgase or Sorilea)? I’m thinking the later because otherwise once bound by the Oath Rod wouldn’t someone like Daigian drop dead right after being raised to the shawl? And Sorilea seems to be rather old and Morgase passes for much younger than she is.
Again, hopefully the women’s power level entry will be much more detailed since there is more applied in the novels.
I think some folks might be overcomplicating the context here. I don’t think this is intended to represent knowledge or ranking systems held by Aes Sedai in any of the ages. I think it’s information for we, the outside observer to have as objective knowledge about the world of WOT that, in this case, may not be known or knowable by its characters.
This type of information is stuff the creator knows, not necessarily the creation….And now we know it too.
Though I agree this first example from the encyclopedia didn’t provide much by way of new information for a serious fan of the series. It summarized, clarified and confirmed what could have been inferred already. Whether having this type of information crunched down and written into law offers enlightenment for you is up to you.
I’m sure there will be plenty of entries just like this as well as plenty that offer new information. I’ll enjoy it all for what it is since I can’t have what I want -which is to keep enjoying the narrative of the lives of the people and events of this world I’ve enjoyed from age 17 to 40.
The entry is very confusing and not clear. From what I can gather, the Supergirls did not raise the bar on the highest potential (even though the post makes it sound like they did), but the events surrounding them in the Supergirls arrival added new ranks to the bottom of the scale, as this was previously ignored due to the fact that RJ only had to use the scale with Aes Sedai until this point, but now had to use it for people who could not qualify for the shawl (Sorilia, novices & accepted the supergirls would interact with who would be put out of the Tower once they were trained up enough, etc.).
So the most powerful on the scale would be a 1. I would assume numbers like ++1 indicate slight variations within a point on the scale (a ++1 is stronger than a +1, which is in turn stronger than a 1). From this I would assume that Lanfear (pre-portal trip) would be a ++1. We know that Nyneave would not be at that level, as we meet several non-darkfriends that have the same or greater potential, such as Taalan, Aliviara, the older grandmother novice that was picked up by the Rebel Aes Sedai (Sharina?). It is also safe to say that the other female forsaken are below this, though not by a lot. Morggy is considered the weakest of the female forsaken, so Nynaeve being equal to her in book 4, before she reached her full potential makes sense, but we have no knowledge of how much further Nynaeve’s potential was, or how much of it she reached by the end of the series. Egwene, we know, was ‘forced’ and therefore reached her full potential quite early in the series, perhaps as early as her captivity with the Seanchan. Elyane makes several observations, quite late in the series, that even though she and Egwene had the same potential, Egwene stood above her because she (Elyane) had not reached her full potential yet. We don’t know how close Elyane has come to her full potential by the end of the books either, though if the stuff she went through in the last battle didn’t ‘force’ her there, I don’t know what would.
As for strength in the One Power affecting longevity, it is never outright said in the books, though it is strongly implied; so no surprises there. It is nice to have a more exact scale though.
@28 & 38 – Nynaeve was forced. Only happened once in the series IIRC. During the cleaning, when she was forced, literally as Rand was controlling the flows, to channel the maximum possible amount of power for hours on end, to the point that the Sa’Angreal actually melted. If that doesn’t qualify, I’m not sure what does.
@39 I’m not sure wielding the Choden Kal counts as being ‘forced’. True she collapsed from the strain of handling such vast amounts of the One Power for so long, but she was doing so with the aid of a Ter’angreal that allowed her to safely use the most powerful Sa’angreal ever created for women. RJ stated that one of the reasons that Rand was able to do so was the Warder Bond gave him some additional strength and endurance. Egwene was ‘forced’ by being compelled to wield as much power as she could hold continually over the course of weeks and months(?) by the Seanchan. The Ashaman are forced by being required to do everything, from chores to practicing, by using the One Power; all the time. I do not think the experiences are comparable, but I could be wrong. The fact is that we are never told that Nyneave or Elyane had reached their full potential at any point in the series, nor is it ever really implied, IMHO.
I would love to hear evidence to the contrary, though, as I think there is definitely room for argument on the later part.
This post seems to contradict some of the material in the series regarding the exact link between aging and power.
The implication here seems to be that the stronger one is, the longer your potential maximum lifespan, but in ACoS,when the Knitting Circle was exposed as being and the actual age of some the members was revealed to the Aes Sedai (600 + years), wasn’t the member not spoken of as being particularly strong?
Jonellin Stonebreaker @41: The strength of the 600-year-old Kin is not mentioned. Reanne is (according to the 13th Depository’s ranks) only one level below Elaida, Moiraine, and Siuan in strength, so must have a fairly long lifespan, which means that 411 is not unreasonable.
Also, another possibility for the rankings: it’s possible that each saidar channeler with an individual entry might have her strength listed in that entry, rather than collecting them all in a table or list.
(Self-flagged for Moderators.)
Also, the WoT Re-read Redux The Great Hunt, Part 5 has the following statement just above the Comment Box:
While I can understand the need for this at times, it hardly seems that the content of that post warrants it. (Also, ironically, my comment on that thread pointing this out is waiting for a Moderator to approve it!)
@43 – There was an earlier (and different) version of that post. The current one went up right before close on business on Tuesday, so we decided to use our shiny new “hold for moderation” functionality on that one.
@22
Nyneave and the girls never got to full potential. They just didn’t have long enough. They were forced higher yes, but they have only been channeling for what 3 years max books 7-14 are across less than three seasons. So accordingly Nyneave could be a 1 and operating at the level of a 4 for right now.
All this talk of the Seanchan forcing Egwene is moot, IMO. It is Siuan who apologizes to Egwene for forcing her (in ACoS, I believe), and the forcing she referred to is clearly in regard to sending Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve out to be her Black Ajah hunters. Most novices, aye, even Accepted for that matter, are mostly coddled in their learning. I can neither count nor remember how many times it was said that Novices weren’t to channel unless there was either an Aes Sedan or trusted Accepted teacher present. For their own safety. Even the Accepted, while being allowed to largely choose their own fields of study, (read: classes) were kept nearly as busy as Novices were with mundane chores. Not only to build “character,” as the books said, but, reading through the lines, to keep the young women so busy and so tired by the days’ ends that they would have little or no strength to be experimenting with Saidar.
The “forcing” happened to all three, as all 3 were entered out into the wide world with little more than some basic training, a whole whack of gold, and an agena. It was to their credit that they already had made the right friends or would go on to make solid choices like this. They were ‘forced’ to learn quickly and on the fly. It was insinuated that a similar apology had been made to the other 2 earlier on, as I read it.
As to the event of the cleansing of Saidin, it is my thought that no event in any of the books could have served to increase anyone’s strength faster; surely the sheer quantity of the taint Rand had to fight through would have broken a lesser man, never mind the power. Was it not Vein who surmised that Logan would have been burned to ash in an instant if he’d tried to use that sangreal?
Few spelling errors above, thanks weak Bluetooth keyboard!! 2nd paragraph, agenda, not agena; & 3rd paragraph, Verin, not Vein. Have a great day.
can we get an explanation on the Oath rod — why was it for prisoners, why did it reduce lifespan of Aes Sedai, how did the Aes Sedai forget something like that
Took me some time in reading the article to realize that 72 is not the strongest but the weakest level. And those ++ level are not explained which makes the start paragraph about aging not really understandable when first reading it.
“Thus the strongest man would be ++1, the 800-year level in aging.”
I don’t see what the “thus” refers too and what the ++ means.
Great stuff though.