When we talk about the fall of the Jedi during the Republic Era, it’s common for people to cite the Jedi Order’s many flaws as at least part of the reason why they were wiped out. After all, they did wind up participating heavily in a galactic war that was specifically designed to lead to their destruction while a Sith Lord operated right in front of their Force-sensitive faces. Perhaps stagnation led to this unfortunate short-sightedness—we’re led to believe that tenets of Jedi “culture” (for lack of a better term) have been in place since their relative inception, thousands of years ago.
But what baffles me is how everyone usually translates this knightly code into an adamant certainty that Jedi never knocked anything more than their lightsabers together.
What I’m saying is… Jedi totally had sex. The idea that they couldn’t, or were forbade from trying it out doesn’t make any logistical sense. Just, follow me down a weird rabbit hole here—
The general consensus that Jedi were celibate seems to stem from confusion over Anakin and Padme’s relationship. We know what they’re doing is forbidden. We know that they’ll both get in trouble for being married, and smooching, and having babies. But we don’t actually know the specifics of why, beyond Anakin’s little talk with Padme in Attack of the Clones where she asks him about whether or not Jedi are allowed to love. Let’s have a second look at that dialogue:
Padme: Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi.
Anakin: Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi’s life. So, you might say, we are encouraged to love.
Notice, nowhere is this discussion does Anakin say…
- Attraction is forbidden
- Lust is forbidden
- Getting my jollies is forbidden
- Using “my Jedi starfighter and its hyperdrive ring” as a topic for tasteless, naughty jokes is forbidden
So the question is: Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?
Because here’s the thing—and it feels weird having to bring this up at all—there is no reason why the rules listed above preclude Jedi from any sort of sexual activity. We all know that, right? We understand that one does not need to be emotionally devoted/attached to someone in order to sleep with them? (You don’t need to feel possessive toward someone, either.) Sure, certain activities before, during, and after sex can lead to bonding, but it’s not a given and it’s not a prerequisite.
Since I’m sure that most of us are aware of this fact, my next assumption is that people think the Jedi are against sex due to one of two inklings: (1) the thought that Jedi must be ascetics due to the duty-bound lives they lead, or (2) connecting the Jedi to Earthly monastic orders. Where the former is concerned, the Jedi aren’t a hedonistic group and they don’t wander around burdened by non-essentials, sure. But couching sex as the same brand of non-essential as useless possessions or bad drug habits adheres to the idea that sex is a needless thingamajig with no measurable value to a person’s wellbeing—which is patently untrue. Sex is healthy, both physically and mentally, for most people, provided that everyone involved is enthusiastic on the subject and well taken care of. (There are obviously exceptions to this—I’m not trying to imply that every human being must have sex to be happy.)

We are set in this idea that Jedi are warrior-monk types, who lead serious, faith-driven lives. But we encounter enough Jedi during the prequel era (many more when you take a look at the Clone Wars cartoon) to know that living a life devoted to the Force is not a uniform pursuit. Many of these knights take great liberties in their interpretations of doctrine—Qui-Gon Jinn being Example #1 on that chart. Personalities run the gamut, and so do techniques out in the field. So this idea of Jedi as “super being faith warriors who have no desires at all beyond their service” is a limited vision of them at best, which doesn’t begin to account for differing needs by species; after all, anyone could be a Jedi.
Still, we might be inclined to assume against the possibility of Jedi gettin’ it on simply because religious orders in our own world typically take oaths of celibacy, and the Jedi are based on an amalgam of world religions. But this ignores one key difference between the Jedi and your average monk or nun on this planet: Jedi are recruited in infancy. They don’t take their vows as teenagers or adults who have already had some opportunity to deal with these ideas in the outside world. They don’t have parents sitting them down for “the talk.” They have a temple, and teachers and peers, for the entirety of their lives.

The Order sounds like it’s full up with rules and codes and mantras where all that messiness is concerned. But as far as we know, all of those rules are focused solely on preventing one-on-one emotional attachments which can lead to possessive thoughts and to emotions associated with the dark side. So, what is more effective for the Order in that regard—telling kids to tamp down urges and wayward thoughts and refusing to address them in a healthy manner, or discussing them with proper guidance and support, and assuring the Padawans that it’s fine for them to feel that way? That, provided they don’t take those feelings and translate them into darker, more possessive ideas, it’s okay if they decide to try some stuff out?
It’s not simply healthier that way—it’s easier to manage. If you refuse to sweep Padawan puberty under the rug, you mitigate other messier risks. You know, like, pregnancy. Because abstinence-only education does not work, kids. (Before it’s suggested, no, they don’t want the Jedi to breed to make tiny Jedi; Force-sensitive kids can come from anywhere and don’t require a Force-sensitive forbear.)

By the way, this means that half of the convos Yoda is having in those shadowy confessional apartments of his in the Jedi Temple? Yup. He’s giving uncomfortable dad advice to confused teens. And probably trying not to giggle because he knows full well that his giggling unnerves the older kids. Mace Windu probably opted out of having to give those talks after a certain point—he’d just rather not. And Force help whoever got their birds and bees explanation from Quinlan Voss; you know that wasn’t helpful. On the other hand, I bet Luminara was great at it.
Never mind the kiddies, this makes even more sense for the older Jedi in the Order—they’re often away on missions, either working side by side, or encountering new peoples and making friends across the galaxy. Are you seriously telling me that Qui-Gon Jinn never made a move on anyone? Ever? I find that harder to believe than the idea of Ewoks successfully wedging spears through stormtrooper armor. If you’re a truly centered Jedi Master, there’s no reason why a little R&R during a spaceport layover is going to get in the way of your lifelong dedication to the Force.
If we want to the discuss the various ways that the Jedi Order failed and brought about their own downfall, I’m all for that. (Meet me at the bar later, it’s one of my favorite topics to rant about loudly among innocent bystanders.) They made many mistakes in the days of the dwindling Republic, and Anakin Skywalker was honestly just the tip of a very large, icky iceberg. The insistence that there is no possible way to sort out romantic inclinations from possessiveness is something that I’ve always felt bears a closer examination. But deciding that No Romantic Attachment = No Sex seems needlessly risky and simplistic at best.

So, let’s be realistic about this—Jedi had sex. (We’re not allowed to hear tell of it because we’re in the realm of family entertainment don’tcha know.) Bringing that to the table adds a whole new level of complexity to Jedi culture, and is something that should at least be considered when examining their social structure. Don’t you want to know more about the legendary exploits of Obi-Wan Kenobi? The really legendary ones?
I sure do.
Emmet Asher-Perrin is pretty sure that she hasn’t yet written a 100,000 word fanfic titled “The Really Legendary Exploits of Obi-Wan Kenobi,” and she would like to apologize for the depriving that world of that. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.
Good arguments, plus I believe we have Word of George on this topic in some interview, somewhere, that I don’t have the link for right now.
But we still have the major Flawed Jedi Theory topic (which I’m not sure you can really resolve without getting into an argument between Lucas’ interpretation of Buddhism and other philosophical/religious ideals that I could see getting moderated really quickly) of–isn’t a lifestyle where ONLY attachment-free sexual activity is permissible also arguably unhealthy and not respectful of personality and species difference?
I dunno Emily. Without even bringing in a “joke” about the ethics of Jedi mind tricks, the idea that these hyper-idealistic warriors were into slam/bam/thank you ma’am/sir sex without any emotional attachment (which honestly – is a stupid rule for any human, Jedi, monk, or otherwise) is worse in my mind than Jedi virgins. I prefer to think Jedi meditation techniques would keep their physical urges in check.
Eh, I think this will take some more thought…
@2 I wouldn’t say sex without attachment is necessarily purely physical. Jedi are allowed to have friends, feel affection, and be fond of people and sex can occur in those contexts: friends with benefits instead of lovers.
Oh, I totally want to meet you at the bar for this, haha.
I also am fairly sure I remember George Lucas saying at some point that the Jedi were forbidden from MARRIAGE, not necessarily sex. Which is not to say that I think the ideal Jedi is just sleeping around with everybody to the point where they have no sense of self control (or are just using people for pleasure since they know they can’t commit), but there’s a pretty wide spectrum between that and no sex. Not to mention, in the (no longer canon) works, it was pretty clear that ancient Jedi were married.
When I thought about this a lot in the past, my conception was that there very well could be some high level Jedi that choose celibate lives because that is how they focus the best on the Force and want to completely devote themselves to service, more esoteric things, exhibit that type of self control, etc. (And there probably is also a distinction between people who may not be against sex per se, but would still choose to remain single for the Order or so they could more widely serve all and have as few of their own ‘interests’ to distract from that).
But then you’d also get lots of Jedi who just would choose a happy medium (perhaps married but still more tightly affiliated with the Temple – because I never agreed that was inherently bad either), or maybe would never totally finish their training, but go off and live ‘in the world’ and have other jobs etc, only coming back occasionally (kind of like Benedictine oblates who are basically laypeople, haha). Of course, in my conception, the main point was that these were not baby-snatched people who literally have no choice in a celibate life or not.
But, while I never really bought the whole ‘a good Jedi is a celibate Jedi’ thing (nor do I think George Lucas necessarily intended that), I was never a fan of the whole ‘celibacy is the reason the OT Jedi were bad’ (which I don’t see you saying but have seen elsewhere). I don’t think celibacy is an inherently bad state at all, and in fact I think can be a perfectly legitimate and beneficial vocation – for those who are called to it/choose it.
Although, no, I don’t find it hard to believe (at least in general) that Qui-Gon or any other particular Jedi never made moves on anybody because I don’t think that’s an inherently unbelievable thing, in an inherently general sense. Not knowing what Qui-Gon’s particular views on sex are, I guess I couldn’t tell you if I believe it for him specifically:) “If you’re a truly centered Jedi Master, there’s no reason why a little R&R during a spaceport layover is going to get in the way of your lifelong dedication to the Force.” – I suppose this would be up to a particular Jedi’s interpretation of various things. If they view sex is primarily a physical/fun thing that’s more or less separate from the spiritual (whatever that means for a denizen of the Star Wars universe) then maybe it wouldn’t matter to them – although on the other hand, if you are one of the more ascetically minded Jedi, you may just, on principle, still avoid it the same way you might avoid rich foods, etc. Maybe there are some Jedi who are more hedonistic because they celebrate the physical manifestations of life/the Force and view the spiritual/physical as integrated, so no problem there for them. But if for some people it’s a more significant thing that unites the physical and spiritual but also has some type of more lasting significance, then maybe they would be more cautious about something that casual*, since I think little moments CAN get in the way of whatever we are dedicating ourselves to. But all of that is going to vary for a particular Jedi so that’s just a long way of saying some Jedi probably had sex and some probably didn’t and t here’s probably a lot of room within Jedi philosophy for what is acceptable, as long as you’re not flat out using other people. So I can find the whole spectrum believable.
(*This is my own personal belief on the topic but I’m trying not to impose my own beliefs on that into a fictional universe ;) )
I cannot believe that someone as effortlessly charming as Kenobi – movie/cartoon/any version – wouldn’t get his flirt on at the very least.
Jedi are forbidden to have attachments — now call me old fashioned, but I would like to think that two people have a romantic attachment before they have sex. If there’s an Austin Powers Jedi (Hey baby, want to come back to my place and polish my lightsaber?) I don’t want to know about it.
Plus, knights with magic swords and sex never mix well. Did we learn nothing from Arthur and Lancelot?
Not to mention, if that galaxy long ago and far away also flirted with the idea of “affirmative consent,” no Jedi in his right mind would ever have sex with anything. How do you disprove “He mind-tricked me.”
Not to mention, if that galaxy long ago and far away also flirted with the idea of “affirmative consent,” no Jedi in his right mind would ever have sex with anything. How do you disprove “He mind-tricked me.”
@6: They dodged that bullet on Episode II, when Anakin implied he’d be unable to force-trick Padmé.
PADMÉ: You’re gonna use one of your Jedi Mind Tricks on me?
ANAKIN: They only work on the weak-minded.
Good thing they had all of Episode I to establish that Padmé wasn’t as weak-minded as your average stormtrooper.
Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?
Western sexual repression that teaches us that “sex is for marriage”.
I think it’s also worth noting that in a lot of post-prequel Expanded Universe material, we saw that Jedi being forbidden from attachments was an idea that was more contemporary to the final days of the Republic. Star Wars stories that took place in the Tales of the Jedi and Knights of the Old Republic eras often featured Jedi that fell in love, married, and raised children. I think the idea of Jedi being forbidden from attachment was used to illustrate the fall of the Jedi Order; they were increasingly out-of-touch and blind to what was happening in the galaxy, because they tried to remain detached from everything. It’s interesting to note that after the prequels established the “rules,” we never saw Luke institute these kinds of “no love, no attachments” rules in the post-RotJ Expanded Universe stories.
@9, That’s because those EU books were created prior to the prequels where this rule was instituted into canon. KoToR, which was created after the prequels but took place 10,000 years prior, also had the Jedi instituting that rule.
Emily, everything you write is gold – thank you for your perspective!
@9, @10,
I think that history still works just given the prequels and original trilogy. There’s a good amount of evidence that the Jedi are screwed up. They’re “the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic” but they are so busy with galactic politics and being special envoys that they don’t in over ten years’ time go back to Tatooine to address the problem of human slavery. Taking kids away from their parents when they are little and teaching them not to love their parents (or at least, don’t be upset when they die of a preventable cause because you have a greater calling) ends exactly as well as should have been expected. I really like the idea that Luke found a third path or maybe the true/old path when he loved his father enough to give himself up, and hope they run with it in the new series.
Firstly, the depiction of the Jedi in the prequels was greatly flawed, and should perhaps be disregarded entirely, including the ban on Jedi marriage. There was no such rule mentioned in the original trilogy, though there were warnings to keep personal attachments in perspective. The original trilogy essentially stated that while our attachments make us stronger (and can even redeem us), we must not compromise our moral and ethical ideals in service of avoiding personal pain. If the self is rooted in peace, and the will to life, the self cannot be lost and turned to evil in times of grief. If the self is rooted in the quest for power to compensate for the fear of loss, the self is an agent of chaos. That is a sensible tenet, and the prequels would be stronger by far had Lucas not resorted to restrictive dogma to serve as an unnecessary plot point, and had instead allowed the Jedi to be actual people in the prequels.
Further, spirituality is inherent in Jedi abilities – those who are not force sensitive are awed by the acts of Jedi, and find their acts unexplainable precisely because the uninitiated live in a world of logic based science which prohibits them from “letting go” and embracing the power of magical thought that allowed Luke to destroy the Death Star, and Rey to defeat Kylo Ren. To limit that potential with dogma and make Jedi powers commonplace quantifiable scientific phenomena by ascribing Jedi abilities to midichlorian was a huge mistake – the force of the prequels is not a mystic cosmic presence, but a power solely generated within the self. Eliminating the spiritual aspect of Anakin’s trilogy made his entire tale as bland and un-engaging as the romance found in a typical trashy novel set in reality – he was never connected to anything greater than himself, he never gave in to the force and allowed himself to be its tool, but rather, used the force exclusively as his tool, and so, there was never any sense of loss when we “lost” Anakin to the darkside. He was always a jerk. I suggest we should all eliminate much of the prequels from our head-canon, if you will.
On that note – Anakin should have been a simple force sensitive teenage orphan (NO PROPHECY), still good and simple at heart despite being scarred by the tortures of slavery. He could have been rescued from that life by Jedi, met and married Padme, and become a selfless paragon of the order, similar to Obi Wan. Eventually, he would become disillusioned with the slow and steady pace of sustaining a delicate galactic peace, and he would become torn between Jedi teachings and the extremist fascist ideology of the burgeoning empire, which he would come to believe could bring order to the galaxy and put an end to suffering (perhaps partially spurred on by the hopes of creating a better world for his unborn child). It would be his distorted philosophical choice to betray the Jedi, who would represent an order free of the flaws we saw in the prequels (an order based on spirituality is, by default, directly opposed to a world increasingly obsessed with greed and status, and that is all that is necessary for a poignant tale of good v. evil – myopic internal politics only muddle this simple, important message). This would lend Anakin an actual likeable personality, and allow him to experience an actual downfall. Further, it’s a story that is true to life, and the forbidden romance angle is unnecessary to its development. Thankfully, The Force Awakens reflected many of the elements from this proposed narrative in both Rey and Kylo.
For the sake of argument, I’ll forget I wrote the paragraphs above, and I’ll pretend for a moment that I recognize the details of the prequels as canonical: Force sensitive children were not normal, and therefore normal child rearing rules were not applicable. A wronged teenage lover with raging hormones and potentially deadly telekinetic powers needs different guidelines, and romance, an often emotionally volatile experience, can easily come into direct conflict with those important guidelines. The Jedi knew that individual love connections could be manipulated in a way that would turn Jedi to the darkside – this evidently happened frequently enough that action had to be taken. Clearly, some Jedi would be able to compartmentalize romantic relationships, and would not be turned to the darkside even if those relationships were weighed on by outside forces – but if the council were to handle romantic permission on a case by case basis, and grant it only to those select Jedi who were deemed capable, it would look like favoritism to less enlightened Jedi, like Anakin, who was always bent toward envy, and always sought out perceived unfairness and victimization. So, it had to be a ubiquitous rule. Anakin was simply a $#!t person, and a $#!t Jedi. He could have chosen Padme and faced the music, at which point he would possibly be forced to leave the Jedi order – instead, he chose secrecy, and in his greed and lust for power, he tried to have everything, so he lost everything. He had a fatal attachment to all things worldly (which is not to say that some attachment is wrong, or evil, but that Anakin’s perspective was 0.00% enlightened). Technically, he never was a Jedi.
Every Jedi had the choice to leave. Some stayed with the order, and some left. Many had sex. Many loved deeply and never turned to the darkside. The Jedi tried to teach Anakin, well, anything and everything, but he never listened, because he thought he knew better. He had no patience, and he only wanted to rule the world by bending it to his will (the opposite of following the will of the living force). Anakin failed the Jedi – not the other way around.
Put simply, the prequels are fundamentally incompatible with reason and spirituality, and they lack the basic structures of good, compelling writing. Perhaps it’s better to forget them – trying to reconcile the flaws of a work is futile when the work is wholly flawed (episodes I – III)
This is a side point, but linking sex and attachment is a very human thing. We the audience might be human, but the Jedi were from many species. You could have Jedi where sex and mating are urges that occur for a limited period in a lifespan or on a high intensity seasonal cycle or where sex is either laying or fertilizing the appropriate eggs. Trying to apply a no sex ever standard to a species that can only physically develop to limited extent without sex for the sake of a vague philosophy is cruel.
So while I can see masters discouraging sex for species where attachment is often bound up with mating, I can’t see a blanket order wide forbidding. There are too many factors in play.
Side note.
“Force-sensitive kids can come from anywhere and don’t require a Force-sensitive forbear.”
This is the exact argument I use when I say that Rey should not be a Skywalker.
The only question needed to solve this is: do Jedi masturbate?
If so, then it’s only a small leap to having them masturbate using other people’s genitalia.
@3 and others: I’m actually not sure, semantically, whether the jedi’s forbidden list is meant to forbid romantic attachments or if it’s meant to forbid putting them ahead of the Jedi’s duty. (My very surface level understanding of the idea of avoiding attachment is that it’s not avoiding feeling things or making commitments, but it’s committing to allowing those things to change and being able to let go… though being able to let go could be interpreted as “don’t take it to heart when your parents are killed by sand people,” or “do not allow your desire for revenge to fester and/or go on a killing spree…”)
But a formally acknowledged marriage might have been enough of a hindrance to the late-republic Jedi order that they didn’t want that going on either. A Jedi having a family that is actually known about and not directly a part of the temple would be something that people might have tried to use to influence said Jedi. (You know, rather like Palpatine manipulated Anakin’s growing fear of Padme’s death…) In addition, I’m sure that Jedi also weren’t averse to using “no, thank you for the offer, but I took an oath,” as an excuse to avoid people’s attempts to personally influence them on their travels, so the larger population of the galaxy could have easily become somewhat confused as to what the rules were.
Not sure how any of this worked on non-human Jedi, who might have different concepts of family, attachment, or sexuality, (humans could too, but galactic human culture seems pretty uniform in the movies) but the movies never went into much about non human cultures other than having characters show up, be seen, and occasionally kill a clone or stormtrooper.
Also, perhaps, Anakin misreported his restrictions to Padme, by virtue of his own flawed comprehension of what was expected of him.
Quoth Em: “religious orders in our own world typically take oaths of celibacy”
Some do, but actually most don’t. Some Asian faiths have celibacy as part of religious orders, and of course we have Catholic priests and nuns, but most other Christian denominations don’t require celibacy in their ministers, nor does Judaism or Islam.
That aside, very well put, Em.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
I thought that the Jedi being all messed up in the twilight years of the Old Republic was canon. I had no idea that it was fanon. I mean, look at what they did to Anakin. They might as well have hung a pork chop around his neck and dumped him in predator-infested woods.
Quill @@@@@ 17:
“My very surface level understanding of the idea of avoiding attachment is that it’s not avoiding feeling things or making commitments, but it’s committing to allowing those things to change and being able to let go”
This is how I feel about it myself, and where I think in some ways the OT Jedi were a bit overzealous in this respect. Perhaps out of having ‘been burned’ before…but actually, I think Anakin’s line here that is quoted is a really good explanation of what ‘non attachment’ should actually be. There is a book that I used to read every Lent which was written by a monk (and in some ways directed at them) that basically goes into this very topic; lack of ‘attachment’ doesn’t mean not caring, or feeling, or loving…it just means not doing so unduly and (at least for a monk or some other person called to that type of vocation), loving equally. Taken to that extreme, that would rule out families since it’s dumb to expect somebody to not love their family preferentially. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think there could be other places along that spectrum that involve having close relationships/families but still not being overly ‘attached’ (surely, that is advice that could apply to basically anybody).
“So, let’s be realistic about this…”
It’s a fantasy series. Let’s not.
I’m just glad this post is here. : ) It does seem more like something I’d rather discuss at the bar though, rather than on a comment thread.
It is obvious to me that by the end of the Republic, the Jedi were still trying to be good, but were definitely not good at their jobs. The order was bound up in all sorts of rules that in the end did nothing to help them notice and deal with the evil that was growing in their very midst. The whole ‘no attachments’ thing was one of those rules. From what I have seen from priests and nuns in the real world, celibacy is an impossible goal for an organization to aspire to.
And while force-sensitive children can be found in all sorts of families, the Skywalkers are an example of how force-sensitivity can run in a family. With that example slapping us in the face, I always wondered why the Jedi didn’t allow marriage in the ranks. Again, in the real world, there are many families that consider military service a family business, and I could see the same thing working among the Jedi.
I think the prequals did a good job of showing what interpretations of Buddhism could lead too. The idea of completely cutting yourself off from all emotion sadness AND joy. Hate AND love is rather ridiculous. This is a part of the most common interpretation of Buddhism that never worked for me.
I’ve always assumed that Jedi weren’t celibate so much as they were discrete. The Jedi are supposed to have been the guardians of justice or somesuch for 25,000 years or so. No way does ANY rule last that long when people (and I include aliens in that word) are involved. You can’t beat biology forever.
Look at real world examples. Roman Catholic priests and nuns are supposed to be celibate. But history knows better. Buddhist monks are generally celibate, but some sects do not practice it.
The reality is that Lucas built a world full of inconsistencies, which come back to us repeatedly as broad examples of his failure to flesh out some aspects in favor of others.
If you want to continue on the Buddhist parallel, you have to main branches of Buddhism: Hinayana and Mahayana. The lesser vehicle (i.e. less adherents, more restrictions) were the ascetic monks – they lived lives of solitude and foreswore attachments. Mahayana had multiple sects including Zen, Pure Land etc, but most importantly those that follow the Lotus Sutra. This teaches that Buddhism is daily life and that one can only achieve true happiness by engaging with the world, by suffering what there is to suffer and enjoying what there is to enjoy. We advance by dealing with joy and suffering as they arise and dealing with it.
So perhaps there are more flavors of Force followers that just Light and Dark. We have Jedi and Sith, but we know that Supreme Leader Snoke has not created a new Sith Lord in Kylo Ren – we have the Knights of Ren. So perhaps there are other, lesser known orders.
OK, the Jedi are the Night’s Watch (“love is the death of duty”) where restrictions on sex are mostly honored in the breach or maybe have a James Bond like approach to sexual relationships. I would still expect sex to be discouraged in Jedi with human like reproductive strategies because it is hard to not form an attachment to someone you are regularly having sex with but are still expected to be compassionate toward.
I am not sure why that is more comforting.
I would point out that average Catholic clergy are only expected to be celibate, certain religious orders have the additional vow to be chaste.
To add on to Keith’s point about Catholics, that celibacy vow was added after protestant faiths started splitting off. Before that they married and had children.
@AlanBrown no. 24: One fan theory is that the “no attachments” thing works out to male Jedi going on long missions that keep them on a particular planet and a candidate of the right age just happening to be found there not long afterward. Genetic records that could reveal Jedi lineages are kept from all but the most senior Jedi, “for the good of the Order,” so nobody knows that everybody else is doing it. Some Jedi have a girlfriend in every port and some fall into a relationship that might as well be marriage, tearing themselves away when their missions end. So Jedi may have taken their own children as Padawans and never known it. It’s speculated that at least one of the Jedi who resigned did so because they broke their own might-as-well-have-been-marriage and never got to know their own child(ren) in order to preserve the Order, but then found out how many people had gone through the same thing.
Has no one heard of Tantric Yoda?
I don’t know. Perhaps the Jedi were enjoined from having sex. Maybe that was their fatal mistake.
Did the Jedi have reliable forms of birth control?
@29 Priestly celibacy was a long-standing rule by the time of the Reformation. They just had trouble making it stick. Hence the repeated reminders that clergy weren’t supposed to get married. It was probably easier to do once it became a way to distinguish between Catholics and non-Catholics.
@25 dwcole – The prequels were not a cautionary tale regarding the dangers of Buddhism.
All Earthly religions are simply guidelines for reaching enlightenment – for most people that’s all religion is – a series of stories and mantras meant to augment our behavior, thereby hopefully making the world a better place. Importantly, this viewpoint largely omits the spiritual aspect of religious belief in favor of subjective morality (much as this discussion has) – anyone can feel pain, search for answers, and find relief in their lives through joining a religion and applying those teachings to their lives, but few are called to serve god – by which I mean, few feel compelled to put their lives on the line in the service of god and trust in god’s will. In our reality, that lifestyle sounds like pure magical thought, but in the Star Wars universe it’s entirely possible to tap into cosmic powers and carry out the will of the force.
See – the Jedi were called to serve the force – they’re literally the chosen few who are capable of wielding it in the name of life and justice, but importantly, that doesn’t mean they’re free from temptation and corruption. Buddhism (the only real world analog for the Jedi religion) represents a lifelong commitment to attaining enlightenment, and devoted monks continue to have spiritual epiphanies till the day they die. Those monks are the few who are called to that lifestyle, and have the willpower necessary to shut out all distractions in an effort to hear the divine and do its will. Sex is a distraction. If a monk is interested enough in sex that he can’t commit to the monastery, he isn’t called to serve the divine, just as you and I, average people, are not called to that life of devotion. That doesn’t make it wrong for a select few to follow that difficult path – in fact, major societal advances and corrections often emerge thanks to the work of a few outsider visionaries.
Anakin wasn’t called to that life, and he could have admitted as much – but he craved power and notoriety, operated primarily on envy and pride, and never believed in anything greater than himself, so he tried desperately to have it all. Had he listened to a single thing the Jedi had attempted to instill in him, he would have been a good person, because they provided him with the exact tools he needed to avoid turning evil. For most people, getting your arm cut off once would be enough to put some humility in you, but Anakin believed he was “special,” that he basically was the god at the center of the force, and that rules therefore didn’t apply to him.
The Jedi had to be devoted completely, and live lives as free of distraction as possible, because unlike a Buddhist monk, Jedi powers are tangible, and extend beyond their own lives and spheres of influence, and can have devastating effects on the world at large, which makes the temptation to seek power far more seductive, and realistic, and greatly increases the necessity of the mantras, rules, and teachings which keep Jedi from wavering from serving the will of the force, and into serving only themselves. The dilemma with Anakin was as follows: the Jedi lifestyle was fundamentally incompatible with his mindset, but his innate power was so immense that he required tutelage, as he could become a tool for great evil if left unchecked. It was a risk worth taking. If anything, the Jedi trusted Anakin too much, and came to have so much faith in his sheer ability that they overlooked his shortcomings in the realm of discipline.
This whole article is a waste of space. Jedi ARE forbidden to have even casual sex. It’s in the Jedi code…
“Notice, nowhere is this discussion does Anakin say…
Attraction is forbidden
Lust is forbidden
Getting my jollies is forbidden
Using “my Jedi starfighter and its hyperdrive ring” as a topic for tasteless, naughty jokes is forbidden
So the question is: Why do we assume that the Jedi code against romance and relationships extends to brief, occasional physical relations with a willing partner?”
Short answer: READ the code. It’s black on white (On so many levels).
Longer answer:
“There is no PASSION there is peace”.Now tell me how you can have a passionate encounter or even the WILL to have it without passion?
I didn’t know that Anakin Skywalker aka “Darth frigging VADER” was the go to guy on what is okey or not according to the Jedi Code. Especially not in a casual on the fly dialogue with his forbidden romantic interest. You DO know the guys breaks that very important part of the Jedi Code with all his heart all the time right? The part that sets them apart the most from Sith? I’ll remind you again: “There is no passion there is peace”.
The very thing that makes Jedi not able to exist as they are in the films or any other media. The Jedi eschew emotions. You should NEVER act on emotions only on logic. Which means according to (The) Jedi (Code), killing 200 infants to save 300 infants is totally acceptable. It’s simple logic. As long as you do NOT do it for any emotional reason. Because that would make it an act of the dark side! Stopping said Jedi from killing those infants because you’re a dad of one of them, is a dark side action. You do it because you love your child. An act of emotion. Ergo dark side. Whereas the Sith tells you that “Peace is a lie, there is only passion.“
That is why Jedi are not allowed to be in relationships, because they force you to act on emotions. What logic is there to a relationship if you can’t act on emotions? And you will put your loved ones ahead of others. Which is a dark side thing.
But then the whole dark side/Light side thing actually only pertains to force sensitive people. So the rest are in the clear to do wth they want! Since they aren’t pushed to either side since “They are not sensitive” to the force.
Happy life, dear darksiders. Because if the Jedi Code is true, only those already locked up in Max Sec Psych Wards are able to be Jedis… :) (Or grilled in the chair for being cold fish serial killers)
And you will put your loved ones ahead of others.
Except that it was Luke’s loved ones that allowed him to turn away from the Dark Side. So OOPS.
Hmm…. I wouldn’t be so sure either way, I can’t say they were forbidden from having sex, but nothing in canon tells me they weren’t…
@6 – StrongDreams: It doesn’t matter how old fashioned you are, people have sex without having romantic attachments. You might prefer it happened with a previously established romantic attachment, but the truth of the world is that it doesn’t. And even if Star Wars is a fictional universe, it’s populated by people we’ve seen behave pretty much like people in our own.
@36 Baalzie – It isn’t about not having emotions – it’s about disallowing yourself to be controlled by blind emotion, which, if you think about it, is the source of every problem our society faces. People who exhibit self control are exemplary humans – it’s people who can’t control themselves (in this example, darksiders) who belong in “max sec psych wards.”
@37 Aeryl – On the surface, the “love heals all” ending of RoTJ may seem to state that it was Luke’s attachment that won the day – but in reality, his victory was purely a result of surrender. He refused to take the path of most resistance, and surrendered to the force, and to the hope that his father felt an attachment to him. The Emperor used the force to realize his personal will on the galaxy, Vader used the force to realize his personal will on the galaxy – that’s the path of most resistance, of hubris, of shaping the galaxy to one’s own liking, which Luke refused to take when he threw his lightsaber aside – he understood that if he gave in to hubris, the cycle would only start anew, and he would be corrupted just as his father had been. It was this act of surrender, his helplessness, his willingness to die, to sacrifice himself for peace, and his resulting torture, that drove Vader to act out of love, which, importantly, was still an act committed largely in Vader’s own interest, entirely so if not for the fact that he himself died as a result. Luke sensed the conflict in Vader between attachment to power, and attachment to family, and through trusting in the force, he found an option of inaction which brought out the best in Vader, and set the galaxy back on its proper course. That’s not attachment (on Luke’s part), or “turning to family” – that’s allowing oneself to be a tool of the force, instead of bending the force to one’s will.
can someone tell me how the events of Dark Disciple fit with this? It seemed to me that even before becoming “true love”, the Code was considered violated.
THEY CANNOT HAVE SEX!
Jedi and Sith cannot have sex otherwise they WILL lose their powers. There is plenty of evidence behind this and there is absolutely no evidence behind your counter argument. Look at every user of the force in Star Wars. None of them have sexual relationships at all except for two of whom I will mention. Now why is it that they would deliberately have all the force users stay away from relationships? Probably because it messes with their task, their vision and their powers. Who do we know that has sex who is a Jedi or Sith and what happens to them? The only two people who we know have sex who are Anakin and Princess Leia. Anakin clearly does not lose his powers due to sex. But there is a clear reason as to why this is. Anakin does not lose his powers because he is the most powerful Jedi and his midi-chlorians are the highest and most powerful. This is in regards to tolerance one would expect. Tolerance for what though? Because when has tolerance ever been tested? Except for the only reason most think of, which is also why we are here, which is would their tolerance and power maintain if a sexual experience ensued? We need a point of reference however and comparison for their story would fail without any evidence. We need to carefully look at the other Jedi who has sex or who possibly had sex. The only obvious one is Leia. We only witness her use her force powers once and its used to find Luke. Then all of a sudden in the most recent Star Wars, she seems to have no powers at all to locate Luke and has to find the map to him. We know that she had powers, but now she has none at all. What has happened since then to her that we know of? She has had sex and produced Kylo-ren. So that must have been the cause of her lost powers and needing to locate a map to find Luke instead of just using her powers. What other person who we know had the force and maybe had sex? Luke seemed to have a new issue despite beating the greatest forces ever. What could that issue be? The control over his own powers and lack of knowledge of the force. He must have been at peace for a time and had sexual pursuits with a female. This leading to possible offspring. Why has Luke lost his force? He couldn’t find the resistance because he lost his power and even when Ray was standing right behind his he didn’t know. Where have his powers gone? He must have had sex. Where did Ray come from if there no Jedi left in the Galaxy? It must have been from either Luke or Leia. So who? Luke potentially, seeming as we have established he had sex and lost his powers. So they are establishing that if you have sex you seem to lose your powers. There is only case where this isn’t true which is Anakin and so needed to come up with a reason why Anakin doesn’t loose his powers which is probably because his midi-chlorians are special. Funny how the lives of half the people in the galaxy were lost because people decided to have sex and lost the force, leading to the Empire gaining ground.
The Jedi may have started off having sex to reproduce and maintain their numbers. When they changed to being celibates they stopped having relationships and they clearly shun whoredom. By the end of their era, they did not have children or physical families… they collected Force Sensitives from sentient species and indoctrinated them. They simply conscribed members and had no need to breed. Jedi are forbidden from sexual activity or relations (no prostitution, free love, Greek love, marriage, or masturbation)
Budhism…Ah. Lets not go there. Lets really not go there.
Ashoka; `Master, I keep on telling you I am a girl`
Anakin `Be silent Snips, the Jedi Council are going to send us undercover on a mission to Zygerria…You are the slave.`
And then there is the one English monastic order, the order of Semplyham (didnt spell that right) which, like the Jedi Temple, was co educational. Their nickname was `the order of brothelyham` (The Wiki page on the order is sadly very tame…But to mention it in medieval times would have gotten coarse snickers everywhere)
Jedi Slaves are Celibate, that is canon. After their Masters steal the children, and physically and psychologically torture them until they become mindless killers, they are celibate monks in the Jedi Drug Cartel Death Cult. Cannon Fodder to be tossed into battlefields fighting thousands of Terminator robots wearing little more than a bath robe and flip-flops. Eventually all the physical and mental abuse and combat trauma pushes them deep into Force Energy Addiction. The Jedi Junkies turn into darkly dependent force addicts. As Sith, they can’t get enough, craving more and more force energy to stay baked all day long, stoned out of their minds… so totally high their eyes are glowing with the stuff. Sith are always craving the ultimate high: unlimited power. The former slaves of the Jedi rebel and break their chains, naturally they are angry towards the kidnappers that stole their childhood, ruined their lives, got them hooked on the Smack, drafted them and sent them far away – to risk their lives with no protection, for a war not their own. Both groups are evil drug cartel death cults, the Jedi trying to monopolize territory to Harvest more unsuspecting children, the Sith even worse, so far out of control their self destructive habit drives them to do anything to get some more of the deadly drug that’s killing them : the Force Energy. It is the evil Jedi ‘Masters’ abuse and mind control that warps the children with feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, and powerlessness. Those years and years of emotional trauma is what fuels the Sith’s desire for POWER – because they feel so powerless, so hopelessly addicted, and having no say, no control over their life.