When Mary Robinette Kowal and I were on tour together, she asked me to record something for a charity fundraiser: a video of me performing a karate kata in the Victorian dress I wore for our tour events.
Being an author, of course I said yes.
Because it immediately made me wonder—what would that be like? How well could I do karate in that dress? What sorts of difficulties would I run into? And how could I make use of this experience in a story someday? I had some suspicions, but without putting them to the test, I couldn’t be sure. Mary and I were on the way to our next event when she made the request, so after we arrived and got into costume, I decided I would take a moment to walk through a simple kata as a preliminary test.
I got one move in and discovered that the biggest limitation was one that had never even crossed my mind.
It wasn’t the skirt.
When you talk about this kind of thing, most people’s minds go first to the skirt. After all, that’s the most obvious difference between men’s clothing and women’s. And let’s be clear: a skirt is something of a liability when fighting. The kata I chose to perform has only one kick in it, at the very end; that was a deliberate choice on my part, because any time I pick my foot up, I risk catching my heel in the hem on the way down. This might cause me to stumble, or possibly even rip the hem and create an ongoing trip hazard for the rest of the fight.
But contrary to what movies would have you believe, kicks aren’t a huge part of most practical fighting. They’re slow—which means your opponent has more time to see you coming and do something about it—and they put you in an unstable position, balancing on one foot, vulnerable to being knocked down. So the fact that kicks in a dress are hazardous isn’t as big of a deal as you might think. On the other hand, if you wind up on the ground during the fight, the odds of restricting your own movement because you’re kneeling on your skirt? Those are much higher. I don’t practice Brazilian jiu-jitsu, but I suspect doing that style in a dress is a pretty bad idea.
Since my style doesn’t incorporate ground fighting, I figured my skirt wouldn’t really be much of a problem. If it created any issues, I expected them to be much subtler, with the fabric tangling around my legs as I stepped. This wouldn’t be enough to trip me or anything dramatic like that, but it could still interfere with my movement. The style of karate I practice, though, is shōrin-ryu. This emphasizes very straight, minimalist steps, almost always taking your foot in the most direct line from its current position to its new one—which turns out to be ideal when you’ve got a lot of fabric along for the ride. It’s possible I’d have more trouble if I practiced shotokan karate instead, with its sweeping, crescent-shaped steps; those seem tailor-made (if you’ll pardon the pun) for skirt troubles. As it stands, though, I have no trouble with ordinary footwork when dressed up like a late Victorian lady.
It wasn’t the corset, either.
The next most obvious candidate for sartorial difficulty is the corset. The dress I wear when on tour for the Memoirs of Lady Trent isn’t a completely period-accurate late Victorian outfit; the costumer who sewed it for me designed it look outwardly appropriate, while being a little more friendly to the life of a modern woman—particularly one who would need to carry it on airplanes and get dressed without help in the stock room of a bookstore. Because of that, it doesn’t have a corset in the traditional sense; instead it has a back-lacing sleeveless bodice and a jacket that hooks over it. Both of these have a fair amount of boning in them, though, which means the effect is much the same.
As with the skirt, I’ll grant that a corset can indeed be a liability. If the boning is made of wood or whalebone, it could get broken by a hit, which might mean your own clothing winds up stabbing you. (On the other hand, a sufficiently well-constructed set of stays would actually help armor you against slashing attacks.) A lot depends on the time period: in late seventeenth-century England, the busk at the front of the corset could extend all the way to the lady’s “honour,” which sounds like it would make even sitting uncomfortable, let alone any more vigorous movement. But if your fighting style doesn’t emphasize grappling, the fact that you can’t really bend through the waist isn’t necessarily going to be a big deal. So is the corset really a problem?
I’ll be honest with you: I thought this, not the skirt, would be the main problem. Not because I need to bend through the waist to do my kata, or even because the boning might dig in uncomfortably; once again, I expected the problem to be subtler. I’ve been studying karate for eight years, and I’ve spent that time learning how to generate force with my entire body. When I punch, it isn’t just an arm movement; the power starts with my footwork, my knees, my hips, my opposite arm, using the torque of my whole body to drive my fist forward.
Now put a cage around the middle of that equation.
I thought it would be like trying to play piano with gloves on. Sure, I can still perform the motions… but the subtlety and the fine control would be gone, muffled up by the interference of clothing. And it’s possible that’s exactly what happened. But I can’t really tell you, because any difficulty I had with my corset was instantaneously drowned out by the real problem—the one that yanked me up short before I finished even the first movement of the first basic kata.
It was the sleeves.
The sleeves? The things wrapped around your arms? How on earth could those be a bigger problem than skirts and spring steel boning?
Because of the armholes. When my seamstress was designing my costume, she told me that she would cut the jacket to be more forgiving than usual for period style, because I would need a greater range of movement through my shoulders than an actual upper-class Victorian lady would expect. Even with a more generous cut, though, my ability to move my arms in this costume is limited; I can’t raise them much above ninety degrees. And, most fatally for my ability to do karate, I can’t reach very far forward.
If you were to come to a class at my dojo, one of the most common things you would hear the sensei telling the students is, “Deep cross!” Half of our blocks begin by crossing your arms in front of yourself. We talk about folding your upper body (disregarding the fact that ribs and a sternum mean you can’t actually fold yourself in half) and then snapping open again, using that wind-up to generate power. Even when a movement doesn’t begin with a deep cross—a punch, for example—you let your shoulder come forward briefly before settling back.
Trying to do karate in that dress is like being a dog on a choke leash. Time and time again, the fabric stops me short, the satin across my upper back pulling taut and halting my movement before it’s complete. I can’t get anywhere. Or rather, I can… in a pathetic, limited manner that doesn’t carry even half of my usual force. Trying to do a deep cross in that jacket makes me feel like a T-Rex, my arms shortened to uselessness.
What’s interesting about this is that it isn’t an issue specific to women’s clothing. Men’s clothing is more likely to be forgiving in the shoulders, but not always; there have been places and time periods that favored a close-fitting silhouette, on the assumption that a gentleman isn’t engaging in the kind of vigorous labor that would make such a cut impractical. (Like a lady, he has people to do that sort of thing for him.) Men have worn corsets, too, and articles of clothing with something you might call a long skirt, but the sleeves are the point at which they’re most likely to run into trouble. When you see a man in a film taking off his coat before he fights a duel, he isn’t just protecting the nicer fabric against getting torn and dirty; he’s giving himself more freedom of movement.
See for yourself what the effect is:
I didn’t choose arakaki sochin because it’s my best kata (it isn’t), but because it has no “deep cross” moments. Despite that, those of you with an eye for martial arts may be able to tell that my punches in the opening sequence aren’t quite up to snuff, because of how the jacket stops me from really bringing my shoulder forward like I should. The rest of the kata is less affected for the most part, but there are a few points where the clothing interferes at least a little. And I paid a price for it, too: I went through the kata in full costume three times that day, once as a warm-up, and then two takes of filming, and when I changed back into modern clothing I found red marks down the fronts of my shoulders where the seams had bit in.
The Takaway
As a karateka, I’m not very pleased with my performance—but as a writer? It was a fascinating experience, one that left me with a lot of thoughts about fight scenes in fantasy novels. Clothing and behavior go in a feedback loop: if gentlemen in your invented society expect to be jumped by assassins in the street on a regular basis, they’re going to wear coats that allow a larger range of movement, because they can’t expect the enemy to wait while they shuck their restrictive outer layer. Coming at it from the other direction, if your fantasy ladies are trained to defend themselves while also looking decorative, they’ll probably learn a style much like mine, with relatively little in the way of kicks or ground fighting and straight-line movement that won’t send their skirts into a tangle.
And when it comes to the sleeves… well, I’ll let Merida show us how it’s done:
In the end, I couldn’t punch well in this kata because I didn’t want to ruin my costume. But if I were fighting for my life, that consideration wouldn’t even cross my mind. I’d move with full force and see which is stronger: my seams or my body. I’d come out the other side with a ruined jacket and some really impressive bruises along my shoulders—but at least I’d have a chance of staying alive.
This article has been revised to correct a mistake in the description of tailoring.
Marie Brennan is the author of multiple series, including the Varekai novellas, the Onyx Court, the Wilders, and the Doppelganger duology, as well as more than forty short stories. Within the Sanctuary of Wings, the fifth and final book of the Lady Trent series, is available from Tor Books. More information can be found at her website.
This is really fascinating. Do you have a video of yourself doing this kata in more appropriate clothing to compare?
Very interesting article. I’ve long suspected that long skirts are not the primary issue re: freedom of movement they are often supposed to be. Of course TYPE of skirt matters a full round skirt cut clear of the ground with only one petticoat would be a lot less of a problem than say a tight bustled 1880s skirt.
Could sufficiently tight pants cause a similar problem? Though I suppose avoiding kicks would solve that problem, too.
This reminds of the twitter thread about the engineering problems of fashion. Not only do clothes need to be design for appropriate internal structure and weight but also to enable the desired range of motion.
Now I feel better about giving my lead superheroine in Only Superhuman a sleeveless costume.
As a black belt in an Okinawan karate style, I find this fascinating. Plus I love watching people perform kata. Thank you so much for sharing this.
I’m not actually surprised that the sleeves are more of an issue. The skirt, as you said, actually provides a certain freedom of movement, though as you also said, lowering your leg is more the problem. And you’re supposed to keep your back straight during kata, generally, and the corset actually helps with that. (Though I can think of a couple of moves in a few katas that would so totally not work with a corset even a little bit.)
But the sleeves? Yeah. I roll them up in class regardless of weather, and I don’t know how my fellow karateka manage to train in long sleeves. *laughs*
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
Uh… What about the corset.
I’m not 100% surprised to learn that the sleeves are the real problem. I don’t study karate, and I’ve never worn a Victorian era dress, but I had to wear a tuxedo at the company Christmas party last year, and I could barely lift my arms up enough to reach the steering wheel of my car. Tight, good-looking sleeves mean that your arms can’t move.
Hat pins and unpleasant pointy things in your hairdo are your friends.
@3: Yes, pants are a problem. I’ve ripped pants in half because I was trying out kicks while bored in an empty lobby while waiting for an elevator. And those are modern men’s dress trousers, which are fairly roomy compared to, say, Regency trousers.
I can’t really see your footwear in the video, but it sounds like you’re wearing some serious boots. You said that you deliberately chose a form with few kicks, but as a taekwondo practitioner, my mind automatically goes to the forms I know, which have plenty of kicks, and I can’t imagine doing them in shoes of any kind, much less Victorian footwear.
@9 That must have been embarrassing. Expensive too.
“And that,” said my wife, “is why I don’t wear skirts.”
(She studied tae kwon do.)
This is really fascinating to me. I practice shuri-ryu, another Okinawan style, and I can see some similarities and some differences here. I’ve never liked restrictive clothing anyway, but now I’m wondering if my forms would be as hampered by it as yours were.
Very probably; while the ‘deep cross’ concept mentioned is not one I’m familiar with, at least not by that description, a lot of the punches do require the hip, torso, and shoulder twisting — and there’s a snap, part of the followthrough, that would be… problematic, I think, with restrictive sleeves.
I shall have to experiment! :D
dthurston @1
I don’t, no — that would have been a good call! Sorry I didn’t think of it sooner.
noblehunter @3
Oh, definitely. If you look at the pants in a karate gi, they have a diamond-shaped piece of fabric set into the crotch, rather than having the fronts and backs of the legs all come together in a cross-shaped seam; that’s to give you greater range of movement. And they’re loose, too, so that the fabric doesn’t bind when you kick or kneel or whatever. If you want close-fitting trousers *and* freedom of movement, you need flexible fabric, like modern spandex or mayyyybe a knit.
MByerly @8
They’re still only your friend if you can move well enough to use them . . .
Brian MacDonald @10
It sounds loud because of the hard soles on the hardwood floor, but the boots are small ones that come up to my ankle, with a heel like a gentleman’s dress shoe. As footwear goes, it’s relatively practical, and the kind of thing someone might find themselves wearing when they unexpectedly have to defend themselves. The conditions under which we *practice* our martial arts are very much idealized.
This is so cool. I agree with dthurston @1 that I would love to see a side-by-side comparison with you in your gi.
At Dickens fair, my Scots-Irish dance troupe has to get special dispensation for the design of the sleeves of our (mid-century Victorian) costumes exactly because of this issue. It’s not a problem for the Irish dancers so much because most of the time they’re clenching their fists under their butts (though it can make two- and three-hands harder), but it’s a HUGE issue for Scottish Highland dancers, since our two basic arm positions are akimbo or above our heads. We also get a dispensation on shorter skirts so we don’t catch them (and so that you can see our footwork), but the sleeves are honestly the biggest deal.
At Renaissance fairs, sleeves are less of an issue because the bodices have open armholes. We do ‘kilt up’ our skirts before dancing (to around just under the knee) more for visibility than movement constraints. Neither the Victorian corsets nor the Renaissance bodices (even tightly-laced) create any issues that a bit of breath and endurance training can’t compensate for. Like @5 Krad said, they can actually help with keeping your posture straight.
Hat pins, etc., are for very up close and personal, not for any other form of fighting. Grappling with someone who is holding you, for example. A hat pin through the hand might give a chance to flee or pull a small gun from the purse.
As someone who has read novels from that period written by women from that period, I’d say another major problem would be breathing. The dresses, particularly the corsets, were so tight that a woman could barely breath doing nothing. That’s why so many women had “the vapors” and fainting couches were such an important piece of furniture. I imagine it would be the equivalent of having bad asthma all the time.
All told, I’d say that concealed weapons would be a better choice for a lady defending herself than a martial art. There were some really sweet small pistols, pistols that were hidden in jewelry, and various stabbing things in fans and other things a woman might have on her.
Oh, and a hat pin can be a murder weapon. I recall reading of a woman who used one through her husband’s heart. She almost got away with it.
If a dress doesn’t let you study dragons properly, it’s not worth wearing.
@17/Athreeren: “One day I studied a dragon in my evening gown. How he got in my evening gown, I’ll never know.”
Great article, Marie, thank you. Having practiced karate (Shorin-Ryu Kyudokan, to be precise), I knew wider-cut sleves were a boon, but I didn’t know what to expect from a Victorian lady outfit.
@5 – krad: Yeah, I remember a couple of katas where a corset wouldn’t have been comfortable.
@12 – sofaspud: It seems like all of the Okinawan karate lovers flock to Tor.com.
@13 – Marie: Oh, that’s what the diamond-shaped piece of fabric was for.
Wait, have I seen this before? In an episode of Ranma One Half, maybe? Yes, yes I have. It is great to see it in live action though and a brilliant article. Thank you for sharing with us, this is fascinating. I apologise for bringing old anime into this discussion.
I’m thinking of all those Georgette Heyer regencies where the valet has to put the gentleman into his jacket.
I guess the answer to the question in the title is “badly and carefully”.
MByerly @15
Most women didn’t really go for tight-lacing, especially outside of formal situations. I suspect the underlying issue was mostly that upper-class ladies weren’t expected to be very physically fit, so they had no cardiovascular endurance; even going up a flight of stairs could be enough to put them out of breath, corset or no corset.
PamAdams @21
It’s true! I can get into and out of the jacket you see in that video on my own if I have to, but it’s a *lot* easier with help. And as I said, it’s cut more generously than the period standard.
I personally would have expected the corset to be a problem due to it restricting breathing more than it restricting mobility. But this is due, in part, to the fact that my plan for if I’m in some kind of fight relies heavily on sneakers. And on the fact that I generally cut my skirts to mid-calf (i.e. peasant length) for full mobility.
@3 – In the Diana Tregarde series (and possibly elsewhere), Mercedes Lackey describes the main character as wearing leotards & jeans that were cut with a gusset in the crotch for full mobility.
Forgot to mention: When my in-laws visited Ste-Marie-Among-the-Hurons, they had a discussion with one of the interpreters, who explained that the habits the Jesuits wore (even in the backwoods) were so restrictive that they couldn’t lift their arms above their shoulders – intentionally so, because they were supposed to be doing religious work, not physical labour. Of course, they still wore these same habits in the middle of the forest, where they *were* doing physical labour, but that’s hardly surprising.
Leg-o-mutton sleeves? For other time periods obviously. As a former SCAer Early Renaissance German looks to have a bit more mobility in the shoulder area.
Cranach Gown
I hate to tell you this, as your seamstress is obviously very talented, but she is wrong. A larger armscye actually *decreases* range of motion (ROM). A closer fitting armscye increases ROM. When the armscye is raised you can actually raise your arms higher and in more directions, and your bodice doesn’t raise up. Think of the restriction that extra fabric under your arm creates when your arm abruptly stops mid movement. Now imagine there is no extra fabric there and the side bodice panel extends all the way to your axillary, aka arm pit. Big difference. Beautiful costume though and interesting narrative!
Erin @27
That’s almost certainly me phrasing it incorrectly, rather than the seamstress having said the wrong thing. She’s a professional costumer working for the San Francisco Opera, so she knows her tailoring business much better than I do.
In the Wheel of Time, the main character loses a (non lethal) duel for this reason (he has to keep his tight jacket on so people won’t see his distinctive arm tattoos and realise who he is)
In a reprint of a nineteenth-century magazine, but I can’t remember which one, I found both a couple articles on fencing as women’s exercise (vigor! grace! enjoyment!) and patterns for making an exercise corset in either crochet or knitting. Densely made, but in lightweight wool, IIRC, so actually pretty stretchy.
I think they wore sort of farmer’s smocks over them, in the fencing pictures? Designed for freedom of movement.
Laura @26, leg o’ mutton sleeves are big and poofy from the point of the shoulder to the elbow area, but they still eminante from a tight armscye. No range of motion help there.
It was a revelation to me as a knitter when I finally really grasped just how to fit a shoulder and armscye/sleeve properly. As novice knitters, we tend to learn that chest circumference is key to fit. Nope, it’s all in the shoulders, and everything else can be adjusted from there. I should have known that from sewing when I was much younger, but it hadn’t stuck.
as a Goju Ryu Karateka myself, I found this absolutley fascinating. A friend of mine linked this on her Facebook, and right away it caught my interest. It’s very interesting how such a simple experiment can lead to so much insight into facts easily overlooked. Such as why one would remove their jacket for a bout of fisticuffs. It makes perfect sense of course, to fight our best we need a fuller range of motion, but it’s not something you often think about, and even less often experience. Thank you for sharing this little demonstration with us.
p.s. Good form, in spite of the dress.
To #15 Mbyerly
On the topic of Victorian “fainting couches”. They had nothing to do with actual fainting and no relation tocorsetsand wo en’sbreathing. In fact mozt women wore “jumps” in daily life (made of fabric, no whale bon, no corset). Fainting Couches were a piece of ‘medical furniture’ invented so the doctors practice of finger bannging all the female past ouberty in the house was easier. Not a joke. A non existent contition called “hysteria” was blamed for anything and everything in women. They claimed (dur to the work if Galen) that the uterus wandered all over the body causing emotional distress and avariety of health issues. The doctors go-to cure was to finger bangthe ladies to climax. Not joking. Dictors did this so much in that era, that they eventually invented strange (sometimes steam powered) sex toys to get their patients to hit orgasm. And all those “fainting couches” were for this supposed medical procedure. Yes iit is true. The victorian era wasfull of doctors with repetative strain injuryfrom nasturbating women to climax… totreat non-existent hysteria.
There is a lot of mythology associated with victorian corsets. Very few ladies practiced “tight lacing”. Daily life was spent in “jumps” (made of fabric) not whale bone corsets (they were a more formal garment than “jumps”) and “fainting couches” … the term is a euphamism…not for actual fainting, nothing to do with corsets…for masturbation.a
On the other hand a highly sucessful ad campaign was run (based on the myth of hysteria) touting a new corset design as better and healthier that the standard ones (the new ones were actually quite dangerous and bent the spine in bad directions).. all on the basis (lie/guess) that all women practiced tight lacing. Nope. Sorry. They didn’t.
The new (supposedlyhealthier) corset was invented by a guy in an era when men couldn’t even look at corsets and certainly never saw one being put on…all ladies undergarments were off limits to men, so of course – bad new design.
I wasn’t entirely surprised to hear that skirts were not the main issue. I did Aikido many years ago, and while a hakema is very different from a Victorian skirt, there is a reason for all of the swari-waza fighting from a kneeling position.
@17 Marie Brennan
If you chose to test this outfit in a sparring match, the skirt might have proven much more problematic, as in a more dynamic situation you, or your opponent, stepping on it would become more likely and would be a major disadvantage. In a scenario based self defense training this is less clear, as the “distance game” of sparring or “duelling” is largely absent in this case, though the skirt largely erases the option of running away, which is a problem in itself. Either way, in any form of fight the dress would most certainly be ruined…
Just as Erin said above, the key is a high cut, close fitting armhole. It sounds contradictory, but works. If you also need to raise arms above your head, you reshape your sleeves following methods used by flamenco or ballet dancers. They don’t all wear stretch fabrics, but their arms are not restricted. [The alteration basically ‘attaches’ an underarm gusset to the sleeve shape]
Trust me, it’s the only way. Remember, women wore these tight bodices, and WORKED. They could do everything we can, bar bend double.
Wonderful article! I am a professional costumer and I can tell you that having armholes cut larger are what clothing companies do now a days to make a size 4 fit everyone from size 2-8. If you research historical clothing, the armseyes are cut much higher and smaller which actually allows for a greater range of movement. For your arms to cross over in a deep cross, I’d recommend that your jackets and shirts have a center back pleat that can be nipped back in at the waist allowing for shoulder movement. There’s a lady that teaches historical costuming and she has a wonderful article about it here: http://historicalsewing.com/sleeve-fitting-for-movement-victorian-bffs
So the answer is, it really works rather poorly.
Victorian women’s clothes from corsetry to dresses and especially shoes (are those historically accurate high-heeled buttoned boots she was wearing under the dress?) restrict freedom of breathing and movement in ways that are incompatible with many canonical karate techniques. The wide skirts amplify the body turning required by the hip rotation of traditional punching leading to the telegraphing of blows.
Kicks, contrary to a statement above, are not an insignificant part of Okinawa-te. But kicks and sweeps pretty much have to be abandoned as do a lot of tactics which make use of distance and level. On the plus side small, subtle footwork is nicely hidden.
Karate evolved among farmers and fishermen whose clothes allowed full range of motion. A lot of it is not suitable for the restraints of Victorian women’s clothing. It is no accident that the formidable Edith Garrud used a modified form of Ju Jitsu and boxing combined with weapons and adapted it to the conditions she and her fellow Suffragists had to fight under.
“Can I do karate in a steel corset, high boots, and ten yards of cloth?” is not the best question. A better one is “What will work best for the fight I am most likely to get in if I’m wearing a steel corset, high boots and ten yards of cloth?”
@38/anuran: You’re pretty much just restating the premise of the thread. Of course Victorian dress isn’t conducive for karate; that’s obvious on the face of it. That was the whole reason for trying it at all, to take on the challenge of doing something so difficult and unlikely. And it proved to be, surprisingly, not quite as impossible as expected. Which obviously does not mean that it’s being advocated as an actual self-defense technique if you happen to find yourself transported back in time.
Suffragette jujutsu (tho a bit more likely “Bartitsu”)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Margaret_Garrud
As a chap who wears a (smart, lapelled) jackets for work, and who also has a collection of vintage clothing, I must admit I think the solution (from the point of view of menswear, at least) may be the opposite to what you suggest. In my experience, a higher cut arm hole (as was standard on men’s jackets until the 60s) allows more flexibility than the low armhole of a modern jacket. For example, I find I can drive a car in a 1930s jacket when it is buttoned up, but have to undo the buttons on modern jackets, and the problem area is around the shoulders.However, whilst I understand why this is the case, I am at something of a loss as to a way to explain it – it’s sort of with the fact that lifting the arm does not raise the jacket so much, nor does it pull the jacket at the back when arms are moved forward…I am explaining it badly I am afraid.
Of course, I fully understand that there may be a way that men’s jackets are and were cut that means that this conclusion may not work with Victorian womenswear, but maybe another direction to take future experimentation
Like #40 above, this reminds me of our foremothers, who yes….totally did martial arts in turn-of-the-century garb, in real life, in real dire circumstances.
The Suffragette Bodyguard was taught jiujitsu and used Indian clubs to defend their more famous members from cops wielding batons. And yeah, they did it in skirts.
@29 – RE: Score one for wearing long-sleeved shirts.
This was fascinating. It helps explain the huge sleeves on Landsknecht garb.
It also reminded me of when I made an 1850s dress for my daughter when she was a teenager. She wanted it as historically accurate as possible,until she tried to dance in it. She couldn’t lift her arms up. My solution was to put a gusset under the arms, using a lycra stretch fabric that matched her gown because she needed maximum range and I wasn’t sure if a self fabric gusset would give her that.
Underarm gussets have been around a long time as a solution to the range of motion problem. I wouldn’t be surprised if your character had them added to her jackets to help. Also another solution from the past is to only attach the sleeves at the top, It would horrify her maid but that would work too.
regards,
Theresa
I am not very knowledgeable about sewing, so take this with a grain of salt.
However I’ve read that during the period where one might reasonably be expected to duel or fence with swords on little notice, men’s clothing commonly incorporated something called a “royal gusset” with a large diamond shaped gusset inserted under the sleeve. This would allow the arms to be directly raised over the head or extended far forward (as with a leaning lunge) without binding and without either pulling up the cloth of the shoulder seam or pulling up the sides and waist.
This is difficult even in a judo-gi! I’ve noticed that a traditional gi allows a wide range of movement only by pulling out of the belt and sliding up at the waist.
This was absolutely fascinating. It makes me wonder about dress styles of other periods. For example, how would karate be impeded in “West Side Story”(aside from the dance moves)?
Shane
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Shane, my best guess is that the girls would do all right in the West Side Story dresses. The Sharks girls are mostly in full skirts and the Jets are in tighter ones, but the latter have slits or are made from stretchy fabric. The heels, however, would probably be an impediment.
I did a little bit of SCA fencing (more mobile than modern fencing) in an outfit based on Elizabethan styles. The sleeves (small armhole) worked ok (but there’s definitely nothing like a deep cross). The skirt was cut only to the ankle (I had a longer outer skirt to add to make it formal, but I could dance in that so the extra length didn’t seem like much issue).
The main problem was the corset. And not RoM, although I did find it slightly restrictive.
I would start panting about 5 minutes sooner.
Elizabethan corsets are not as restrictive as Victorian by reputation, but I still found that fully laced, I had trouble expanding my lungs as much. That also happened while dancing but it seemed worse while fencing.
Do we have any information on Edith Margaret Garrud’s jujitsu variant designed for suffragettes? I would suspect that her movements would be more appropriate. I also don’t know if the Amazons had modified their outfits, as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Corset Question” is relevant here.
A very interesting experiment that is discussed in clear detail in the article. The choice of a Naha-te(/Shorei-ryu) derived kata is interesting, and probably more realistic given the apparel, but I’d like to see how a Shuri-te/Shorin-ryu kata would look, especially one with rising and falling motions, like Bassai/Patsai or Empi/Washu.
Cool article.
Practicing martial arts in Victorian era dress actually has a historical precedent, since Judo and Jiu-Jitsu were popular modes of self defense (along with French Savate) among the well-to-do in Victorian-era Europe, and there are photographs of that time of ladies practicing kicking methods for self-defense (from Savate) while wearing those clothes.
History repeats. ;-)
honestly, my first thought was ‘corset’ and then ‘no, that’s bull, you can learn to move around it’ (of course what I’m used to is aikido or kobudo so..) and the second thought was “oh wait sleeves, they’ll pull won’t they?” So I’m just kinda proud of myself I figured that out before reading it.. as well as immediately noticing that the punches weren’t quite right.
i do historical re-enactment, totally not surprised to hear that the sleeves interfered. i was a maid in 1850s costumes for a while and reaching things up high sucked, so did anything that required i reach in front of me with straightened arms. i wonder if it would be easier in a ball gown, since there are no to minimal sleeves, depending on period, i dont think it wouldn’t restrict movement at much or at all.
Sweet.
I make and wear my own, very closely fitted, Victorian garb. I agree with Rachel, the professional costumer. An armscye cut to precisely fit your arm allows great range of movement. The problem arises when there is not enough width across the back, or ease in the armpit. The back could be fixed with an inside box pleat, which would look like a center back seam when your arms were down. There’s another type of pleat I don’t know the name of, which can be added to the underarm. It is shaped like an eye (pointed oval), and is sewn to the sleeve and bodice and pressed to lie invisibly inside the sleeve until needed.
I’m just seeing this and find it fascinating. I do primarily medieval re-enactment and full skirts aren’t an issue for me. As I do 12C for the most part I merely cut under the arm with some give as I’ve found over the decades that I use less fabric that way than using the gussets and rectangles. I was trained in Wing Chun back in the dawn of time before my knees went out in ‘87. I think the movements might work much better for Victorian clothing. And I so wish I had the clothing and health to test it!! The corset isn’t an issue. When I was healthy I could run and sing in an Elizabethan corset and other styles with no problems.
Fascinating read!
I’m wondering if a Chinese style like Hsing-I would be more appropriate for clothing of this era.