Welcome to the spoiler thread for the Memories of Light, the daily preview of the final volume of Robert Jordan’s epic Wheel of Time series, A Memory of Light. Some memories may shed new light on long-held theories and all are sure to have many different interpretations. Join the discussion of their meaning on the Memories of Light spoiler thread below!
Peruse more theories on the other spoiler threads for the Memories of Light.
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Well based on the Maradon comment, it is almost certainly something (tangible or intangible) that Rand had with him when he did his super channeling there.
The first thing that struck out in my mind was the comment Lanfear made so many books ago. It referred to there being only two stronger sa’angreal that a man can use (compared to callandor). One of the two of course is (was) the male choden’kal. Perhaps with Rand’s full awareness of Lews Therin’s memories, he knew where to find the other one?
“It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.”
This is probably Rand, and he probably had angreal/sa’angreal (ter’angreal) when he fougth the army of Trollocs in Maradon.
Probably Rand doing his super channel…
My first thought is maybe he found the little fat man angreal that went missing (IIRC) way back at Dumai’s Wells.
the little sa’angreal fat man is the only thing I can think of but that might be because I am partway through a reread and they just talked about it.
I’ve always thought the “only 2 greater that a man could use” quote from lanfear was a badly worded reference to the 2 choedan kal… it dumbs down callandor to have this mysterious sa’angreal in the background, especially if it only shows up in the last book.
I do agree that this is probably talking about Rand and some sort of angreal though
Tonka, Where did that quote come from?
It could be the little fat man, or that ivory man holding a sword which was mentioned in TGH and never heard of again. Presumably, whichever it is, it is one of the “two more powerful that a man can use” (more powerful than Callandor, TSR 9)
But, a suspicious part of me keeps thinking this is a red herring and completely unrelated – it could be Ituralde, Bashere or even Moridin
My thought is the little fat man sa’angreal but it’s been several years since my last series re-read.
Yeah, but he didn’t find the fat man after Dumai’s Wells. So I’m going to randomly speculate that it’s a new angreal, perhaps a little boy. After all, Rand did say the final battle will be grander and more terrible. I know the references are usually a bit more subtle but, here comes the (mushroom cloud) boom! Woo!
His sword justice? Maybe it is a sa’angreal.
I hope this is not what appears to be. If it is its another cheap answer in a long list of bandages being applied to Sanderson’s work.
If its not, though… that’s heady. That’s the return of subtlety and care to this series, and that is exciting.
Incidentally, anyone else not recieving the email updated besided Terez and I?
I didn’t receive the email either. I’m glad someone posted the quote in this thread.
I think that it has to do with the Dark One’s seal which Bayle Domon picked up there way back in TGH, which was, if you remember, the reason that Seachan High Lord was keeping him around. I’m not sure what happened to the seal after that. The High Lord took it from Bayle but after that….
“It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.”
I agree with the general consensus: this probably refers to Rand using a *angreal when he rained holy hell down on the Shadowspawn attacking Maradon in Towers of Midnight.
As others have pointed out, the little-fat-man-with-the-sword angreal has gone missing since Dumai’s Wells. Depending on how inclusive Rand is being when he thinks “nobody knew he had it,” he may just be referring to Callandor. Its flaw was that it amplified the Taint, but Saidin is clean now.
But let’s go loony theories:
This is Mazrim Taim, musing about his own angreal that he used when he escaped Maradon, Davram Bashere hot on his heels.
This is Bayle Domon, talking about one of the artifacts he acquired in Maradon, along with the Seal. (The Seal itself caused him nothing but trouble, but maybe one of the other items was useful.)
Side note: Interesting how many Seals were in Saldaea that both Taim and Domon acquired some there.
@14 – I haven’t received the email yet.
I posted on the “Memories of Light” registration post that I haven’t received it yet and asked re: how to confirm one would receive the email. It appears Loialson is also in the same boat as me and I assume many others.
Maybe there are some kinks in the system that are being worked out?
Maybe they are sending the email out in different waves? :-)
I am not in favor of the theory about the second sa’angrial. It’s just against the wisdom Rand acquired at the Dragaonmount: Mortals cannot be omnipotent.
I didn’t get the email either and I supposedly registered on the registration page for spoilers. And I haven’t seen the quote yet anywhere, except in the comments here. Where is it?
“It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.”
For those that didn’t get the email.
Maybe this is Moridin or Ituralde…
I didn’t get the email either.
Maybe it’s some dreadlord who attacked Maradon ou even Mazrim Taim himself thinking about a seal or some angreal…
The entirety of the email is posted below:
The release of A Memory of Light, the final volume of Robert Jordan’s epic Wheel of Time series, is now only days away. To celebrate this tremendous moment, decades in the making, we will be releasing daily previews of the final volume. Sentences, words, paragraphs, chapter titles…memories, if you will, of light. Today’s Memory of Light is:
It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.
All will be revealed when A Memory of Light goes on sale on January 8th, but until then, join the ongoing discussion of each new piece of the puzzle on the Memories of Light spoiler thread.
Reading the sentence immediately made me think of Padan Fain, who has been visiting the blight when last seen. Doubtless he’s been in Maradon.
‘It’ would then be the dagger. In his twisted mind, he would assume no-one to know about it.
My first inclination was Callandor, but that can’t be it, because it’s presumably in the countryside with retired Aes Sedai. If Rand somehow acquired it, SOMEONE would know he had it.
I would actually be disappointed if this was another angreal or something acquired off-screen…I think we got cheated not seeing Rand get Justice on-screen.
I got the email, but for those who signed up and didn’t recieve theirs, just look to AanAllein’s post @@@@@ 24 for the one liner.
I agree that it is most likely Rand reflecting on a recently acquired angreal, but I also think there are other possibilities such as someone from Team Dark referencing fancloth and how it made it easy to observe the goings on at Maradon.
My first thought was the little fat man….but yannhuei above mentions that it wasn’t found after Dumai’s Wells. Now, Rand went back to Rhuidian to get angreal. We know he got the little choedan kal, but I always had the feeling he got something else. Now, I cannot support that right off the top of my head. I just know I always wondered what he went back and got and why had we not seen it. As for Lanfear’s comment of the two more powerful that a man can use, I always took that to be the key and the large choedan kal. I love little tidbits like this. I’m reading parts of the series again in prep for AMOL. Bring it on!!!!!
Luckers, I got the email fine.
Or it could be something a Dreadlord or Forsaken used to drive the Fades and trollocs in the attack on Maradon. We have no indication here whether this is Rand speaking, do we?
I hope Rand’s found the little fat man though.
Didn’t Elayne have some Ter’angular that could hide someone from the Shadow? Was there any way she could have gotten that to Rand? (Brain is foggy on this one.)
Can I make an appeal to the Mods to add those of us who did not get the email, as mentioned above, to the list to receive these? Pretty please!
I think that it is Rand with the missing sa’angreal too. There was a lot of discussion on how Rand seemed to be almost too powerful in Maradon. In addition he did say something about it being extremely close to a direct confrontation between himself and the Dark One in that battle, which always seemed odd to me as he was just killing shadowspawn in a relatively random city. If it is him, then it would explain a lot of this by making the battle more significant by forcing him to display how powerful he is.
For the record, I have not received the email either
Still no email, like KiManiak.
Am I the only one who thinks it may (perhaps) have been possible that the quote could be Rand referring to the True Power?
I think the phrasing “at Maradon” gives us a clue to who is saying it… What I mean is by saying “at Maradon” instead of “in Maradon” makes me think of the way people speak about battles. When people talk about the Battle of Gettysburg they say “at Gettysburg” not “in Gettysburg”. This leads me to believe it is either Rand or Ituralde or I guess possibly Bashere(but him less likely) and most likely I would say it’s Rand. The phrasing makes me think that anyone else like Fain who wasn’t at the battle in Maradon wouldn’t have phrased it that way. If that makes any sense.
I always thought it to be the key and the large choedan kal. Or it could be the sword Justice. But i remember Rand saying that he had taken everything he needed and more from Rhuidean as he was watching Moiraine filling the wagons, so maybe he took more than the choedan kal.
Hi Guys,
Sorry about the email mix-up. I think we have it figured out — everyone should get tomorrow’s email.
Longer version….
It seems about about 200 of you had previosuly unsubscribed from a different list in the same system and wires got crossed.
If you signed up before noon (eastern) today and still don’t get tomorrow’s email, please send me a note: irene.gallo@tor.com
Anyone signing up over the evening (eastern) should be ok but, depending on when you register versus when the system updates itself, it may take an extra day.
could be the paralis net of LTT
I didn’t get the e-mail either!! Please, oh please, oh pretty please add me to the list! I even went back to tor.com and verified I was registered. Hopefully this is a first day glitch!
My first thought was Rand having access to the True Power, too. But it was mentioned someone else (shadow side) was channeling too, but that’s who the quote is talking about.
@33 @38 I do not think he can or would access the true power again after his moment on dragon mount
Thanks, Irene. Beat me to the punch.
It could be that this references someone other than Rand, or, if Rand, a different trip to Maradon than we are all reflexively thinking. This quote could be on page 750.
If it’s not Rand, then part of me wants to guess Mat, and he’s talking about the horn. But then again, surely someone would know he had that.
My first thought here was this is Taim talking about how he actually has the fat man angreal and how he used it to blast the hole in Maradon’s wall before Rand arrived.
Wait, nevermind, how would the horn come in “handy?” unless he blew it? Dumb thought.
Gabe1919 has an excellent thought in #42. It would explain where the fat man went after Dumai’s Wells and why we haven’t seen it in forever.
Didn’t get mine either, will see about tomorrow.
@39 I think that he still has issues to sort out about the true power. When the borderland rulers meet him, he says something to the effect that only the one power was bloacked at that location, the implication being that he could still have used the true power.
Also at Maradon, we can be sure that he used the one power as the asha’man can see his weaves
Check your junk…..mail. I had the email pop up in my gmail and hotmail accounts under junk.
@39. He definitely would use TP again as he stated in TOM CH51 when he meets the Borderlanders outside Far Madding “
Rand tells them they have no idea how close they came to doom; if he had come to them a short time earlier, he would have “returned those slaps with balefire.” Tenobia points out scornfully that they are within the Guardian’s range, and Rand whispers that the Guardian “blocks the One Power only.”” as to whether he COULD or not… obviously he THINKS he can. Quote is from Leigh Bulters re-read, not TOM ;)
Did not recieve it. Did not unsubscribe from anything. Re-signed up today, but after 12.00pm. Will see what happens tomorrow. Glad I am not the only one, and not operator error on my part.
I think it is highly likely that this is NOT Rand, that whoever is picking these sentences is messing with us, seems almost too obvious.
I like the idea about it being Taim with the little Fat Man angreal, but it could also be one of the Ashaman, dark or light, that could have found it at Dumai’s Wells, and kept it for himself.
But on the other hand, I had also wondered about the seemingly large strength of Rand’s channeling at Maradon… and it’s also possible this quote is referring to something that happens in this last book that we haven’t even read yet.
HMMM, I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT I HAVE NO IDEA.
I like the idea that it is Taim and the little fat man(#42, @Gabe1919)…best idea so far!
@47 I disagree. The moment of doom he is refering to is when he is about to nuke them with Balefire in chapter 44 of TGS. Yes, if he would have went to them at that point and they would have slaped him he would have fried there butts with the true power but, I dont think he would try to access it at this point. If you notice after he uses the true source his tavern nature slips out of wack and there is no blance to the harm that he does when he is around as seen in chapter 31 of TGS. While he might think he can access it he never will again or use balefire because of the effect it has on him and the patern. His moment on drgaonmount realigns Rand into the pattern which is why the apple trees come back to life and he is engulfed in light in TOM chapter 1 rather than darkness like in TGS his blance has been restored. He would not risk that by using the true power again.
Huh. It all depends on the POV, now, doesn’t it?
It’s a good point that “at Maradon” is much more likely to refer to a battle than the city, which would be “in Maradon” (e.g. Domon). Whether it refers to the battle that took place in ToM, a future battle that will take place in AMoL (we know that Maradon is practically on the Blightborder, so another battle there would be unsurprising), or something further past… remains to be seen.
I think it most probable that it refers to the battle in ToM and is from Rand’s POV. Given Rand’s incredible prowess at Maradon in ToM, it would be a logical supposition and might answer the question that’s been begging for so long – what is the other male sa’angreal more powerful than Callandor? It could merely be an angreal we hadn’t seen before, but it doesn’t seem all that likely, if it’s from Rand’s POV. Incidentally, I don’t think it can be the “dull dagger” that blocks one from the Shadow’s view; he would have to have gotten it from Elayne, but a) we’re reasonably sure he hasn’t been back there and b) someone – i.e. Elayne – would know he had it. I also don’t think it’s something he’s had for a long time, or he’d have used it before when he was going wiggy as Dark Rand. It almost has to be something he retrieved, possibly from Rhuidean, since he had his epiphany on Dragonmount. Quite possibly, it was something he saw there but didn’t recognize at the time, and remembered once he had all of LTT’s memories intact and readily accessible.
On the other hand, if it’s not Rand’s POV, it could be almost anything. Since there were channelers on both sides of the battle at Maradon, any one of them who were at Dumai’s Wells might have found the fat-man angreal and simply hidden it, either because he wasn’t sure who to trust or because he figured out what it was and wanted to keep it secret. It might be one of Rand’s (or Logain’s) Asha’man who was using it for the Light, or it might be one of Taim’s Dreadlords (or Taim himself) using it for the Shadow.
BTW: Locations of the seals when found in recent years: three were in the north (the Eye, Maradon, and a farm in Saldaea if Taim wasn’t lying), three in the south (Tear, Tarabon, and Rhuidean), one unknown (in Turak’s possession when we first saw it, with no indication of where or when he got it). We’re not told how they ended up where they did, but my guess is that they were removed from the White Tower by Darkfriends/Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars, and then scattered as the war turned toward the Light’s victory.
I’m going for the knife that was in the in the ebou dar cache that Avienda thinks will hide someone from the shadow. On the AMoL cover he has callandor, justice and another knife. Maybe he’s carrying that one around with him now??
My first thought was that Rand has found the ring of the Tamyrlin.
I didn’t recieve my email!!!! boooo
Funny, just checked my mail and there it was. Maybe cause they fixed it, or maybe I didnt complete the reg the first time properly. Not important. Just glad I have it.
I think this is Rand, and I like the idea of him having found the mystery angreal. I feel like this is a thought from a monologue where he is trying to determine his next step. He sounds too worried in the voice inflection in my head and keeping this secret isn’t simply important to his plans and conniving, but to everything to me.
Moridin was not particularly worried or disturbed about his cache of angreal staying secret when he showed it to Greandal.
Taim could be reflecting about how useful the Fat man was if it is him, but the phrasing and the “tone” of the line seems a little too worried to be him. He seems to arrogant to be worried about anyone finding out a secret if he even has any.
I think this person is not sure what is next, and is relieved that he has something he can count on not being countered or disclosed.
Slightly off topic, but Everyone keeps referring to Rand’s sword as Justice (in this thread and elsewhere). I know that is the prevailing theory, but has it proven true yet (via books or author interviews)?
Justice has a role to play, its just too big a Chekhov’s gun for it not to.
The irony of Hawkwing’s own sword being a sa’angreal would be…well, it would be pretty awesome in my book. This was the first thing that popped into my mind, when I thought it was Rand having these thoughts. What did he just acquire that no one really knows ( or understands the relevence) of…
If it isn’t Rand thinking, and just a Red Herring…well, nevermind. =)
I hope it has nothing to do with rands super Chaneling! I thought That had something to do with the light Nynaeve saw weaved in with the treads of madness.
On a side note does anyone else think Oliver is Gaidal Cain reborn!
Olver is not Gaidal Cain. He is too old.
My idea:
I think RJ meant for that angreal to have gotten lost. It was just a plot device to show some more Rand’s growing paranoia/mistrust, and to make us speculate if an Asha’man might use it against Rand. The Aes Sedai most likely to have been handed a suspected male angreal or ter’angreal (it was in Rand’s coat, that got taken from him after his capture) was the leader with authority from the Amyrlin over the whole group: Galina. Galina must have had it in her saddlebag on her horse. Her horse got killed away from the battle site, in the area where the Younglings had also retreated. Rand looked in the wagons/wreckage, that’s why he never found it.
In a Q&A, Brandon mentionned he was “fond” of the little fat man angreal.
I think Brandon decided and Asha’man found Galina’s horse, found the angreal in the saddlebag, didn’t know it was Rand’s and decided to keep it for himself. He never told anyone, knowing if he told the M’Hael he found that it might be taken from him.
It would be an Asha’man we know was at Maradon. There’s one who is on a mission for Rand and could really use it : Naeff.
Got my email @@@@@ 11:01 AM CST.
I think it is Rand’s POV.
No idea what “it” is…but I’m glad he has it!
Rand can and will use the True Power again.
May you always find water and shade!
1. “If” it’s Rand, I don’t see why “it” can’t be the Ring of Tamyrlin (you want a “Chekov’s gun”, there ya go. It was mentioned in the prologue of tEotW, and there is no reason it can’t be Lanfear’s “other” sa’angreal that a man can use:
“There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists…” (tSR, ch 9, “Decisions”, pg 182 (mm) or pg 88 (pdf))
I’ve seen arguments where people have said the RoT can’t be what she was talking about, because it makes no sense for it to be something that marked someone as being “First Among Servants” if it was something only a man can use. Point is: Lanfear never says ONLY a man can use it, just that there is another one that a man CAN use.
2) I don’t believe it’s M’hael’s PoV: the male channeling detected at Maradon that destroyed the wall came from at least 6 males (if Deepe wasn’t mistaken), which means they would have to be linked, meaning there were between 7-66 women with them (per the Linking rules: http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Linking#List_of_all_Possible_Circles ) I’d be willing to go with the lowest possible of 7 (meaning a circle of 6 men, 7 women) since the amount of devastation to the wall, while “bad”, wasn’t on par with what a group larger than 13 could cause. And it was most definitely a circle, since the action was one perfect strike, rather than a bunch of separate attacks: for the men to have done it alone, it would have required them to throw their weaves at the wall at the EXACT same moment. Possible? Sure. Unlikely however. A Circle and a single direct strike is far more believable.
Anyway, back to the point of it not being M’hael’s PoV: he wasn’t at Maradon. He has his hands full with Thirteening Asha’man (and now the Bonded Aes Sedai) at the BT, not to mention the fact that he either a) has his hands full with Logain or b) has already Thirteened him.
3) It can’t be Ituralde’s PoV: if he had a mysterious “something” to help him at Maradon, I guarantee he wouldn’t have allowed men like Yoeli to die, and things wouldn’t have gotten to the point that he NEEDED Rand to save him.
4) It’s ridiculous to assume it could be Fain, since not only were there massive amounts of Shadowspawn that he could have Mashadared/Zombified (whatever you want to call it), but RAND was physically there, and I hope no one actually believes that if Rand were anywhere near Fain that Fain would just let him live (especially as weakened as Rand was after his dynamic attack.)
5) Could be Barid Bel, but it’s unlikely for the same reason as #4: Barid Bel wouldn’t let a weakened Rand get away anymore than Fain would.
6) It could very well be Antail (maybe he found the little fat man angreal at Dumai’s Wells) and he could be referring to using it to Heal as exhaustively as he did, since it’s never even indicated that there were any other Asha’man helping him with Healing.
7) Perhaps it’s even Bashere: there has been all that speculation about him being Atha’an Shadar…what if he had a ter’angreal that helped him resist Zen Rand’s “Light” effects?
Point is this: it could be anything at this point, we really can’t tell, especially with as limited as the “blurb” is. We can come up with every wild theory we want (which is kind of the point of Tor doing this to begin with!)
@@@@@#15 Patiently Waiting: the Seal Turak took from Domon was destroyed at Falme with the one Turak already possessed. (Moiraine tosses a pouch at Rand at the end of tGH, and when Rand comments it’s another Seal, she corrects him and says it’s two of them)
The Seals are as follows:
1. Eye (destroyed there)
2. Domon’s (destroyed at Falme)
3. Turak’s (destroyed at Falme)
4. Stone of Tear’s (first one found in one piece by Rand’s group; Moiraine takes it with her to the Waste; in Rand’s possession after Moiraine’s battle with Lanfear; current whereabouts: presumably with Rand.)
5. Rhuidean’s (found by Moiraine; in Rand’s possession after Moiraine’s battle with Lanfear; current whereabouts: presumably with Rand.)
6. Tanchico’s (found by Moghedien and hidden in plain sight; taken by Nynaeve after her fight with Moghedien; carried to Salidar by Nynaeve and Elayne; broken just before they reach Salidar.)
7. M’Hael’s (supposedly found in Saldaea; given to Rand at Caemlyn; given to Bashere for safe keeping; current whereabouts: presumably with Rand.)
I say “presumably with Rand” since he’s about to break them. While he did give the one to Bashere, after the attacks on both Dobraine and Bashere’s wife, I don’t see Rand not taking steps to “protect” them. And with the one M’hael gave Rand, I’ve always assumed that Barid Bel or Moridin gave it to him so that he could use it to gain Rand’s trust.
Wetlander
According to the BBoBA. After the Breaking started:
The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time. Page 85
This would actually tend to indicate they may have never been in the Tower, which wasn’t started until around 98 AB. Which always makes the title “Watcher of the Seals” rather amusing to me. No Aes Sedai living had ever seen the Seals until our books.
oh and @@@@@#62 Dom.A: I’m not too sure about the Naeff bit. He showed up at Maradon WITH Rand and as far as we saw did no Channeling.
That being said, the whole scenario you posted about the random Asha’man finding the fat man angreal is definitely the most plausible (though it would fit more with it being Antail rather than Naeff, given the amount of Healing Antail was doing on his own in Maradon.)
As a side note: I did ask Brandon about the fat man angreal, what had happened to it, and got a RAFO…
@@@@@#58 Repitivity:
“Rand’s Sword New 21/11/09 It has been confirmed by Kathana Travaeler that this is Justice through direct email correspondence with Brandon and Maria.”
The phrasing of the thoughts;
Is pure Rand. It totally evokes his mindset way back in TSR when he is leaving Tear, and constantly thinking to himself that he had to do what nobody expected. It cannot be Justice. (Yes, Repetivity @58, it is confirmed that the sword presented to Rand with the dragon-lacquered sheath is Hawkwing’s Justice) If that sword turned out to be a sa’angreal, his wording would have been:
Rather than saying that nobody knew he had it. Numerous people now know that he has that sword. Few know that it is Justice, but few is more than nobody.
Remembering what Rand, unaided, was able to do at Lord Algarin’s manor in Tear, then imagining him with a moderately powerful angreal, I think this fits. If he had his hands on a sa’angreal more powerful than Callandor, the conclusion of the battle at Maradon would have been even more dramatically one-sided.
What Rand told the Borderland rulers was that if he’d met with them in Far Madding on his previous visit (pre-epiphany) , he would have answered their slaps with balefire, which would have been the True Power, since it is not blocked by the Guardian. Post-Dragonmount Rand would do no such thing.
Just over four weeks now until we know the truth.
J.Dauro @65 – You know, I’m going to have to break down and buy that thing one of these days. There’s just enough missing from the googlebooks version to make sure I miss important things. It seemed logical that, since the Amyrlin had the title of “Watcher of the Seals” that she actually watched them for a time; since the Tower was partially plundered during the Trolloc Wars, that seemed a logical time for them to have been removed from the WT. We were also told (TGH) that no Amyrlin had known where the seals were since the Trolloc Wars. Apparently her title of “Watcher of the Seals” wasn’t so much guarding the seals themselves as being the one who knew where they all were.
Freelancer @68 – I agree with your comments on the wording; I also agree that it sounds very, very much like Rand’s kind of thinking. I do think that it’s probably Rand’s POV, but given the expected number of minor-character POVs, I won’t be entirely surprised if we find that it was one of the Asha’man.
And hey – do you get your book 2 weeks early? Or are you using a different calendar? I make it 6 weeks tomorrow.
I STILL haven’t gotten the email….
@Freelancer
Are you sure that anyone except Rand knows that the sword is Justice? I am quite sure that when it is first mentioned Rand thinks that he remembered the sword himself, that could mean that noone else knows.
Call me already mad, but I don’t think whatever it is has to do with channeling. When I think about it, there isn’t anything extraordinary with Rand outputting that much of the One Power, no matter what any other Asha’man says. He already is the strongest male around. Let’s not forget he was pretty much dead on his feet by the time he was done. So it was comparable to the amount of One Power he threw around during the battle of Cairhien, only instead of doing it over a day, he did it over an hour or less.
Reread book 5 the Oliver could be any age a be Gaidal Cain. It’s all in how time differs in the world of dreams. After Gaidal is reborn Briggita said she could be reborn in a day or 10 years and find Gaidal older or younger than her
I guess everyone thinks that Olver is Gaidal Cain until they learn that Robert Jordan said in an interview that he isnt.
@73 Shannon, actually it was confirmed that time isn’t that loose. While time can be fluid going forward it can’t travel backwards. At the point it’s confirmed that Gaidal is gone Olver has already been alive for years in the waking world.
Jordan confirmed that while he might disappear and then wait anywhere from minutes to years to be born, at no point would he disappear and then be born prior to his disappearance. As Kah said, most of us thought Olver was Gaidal at first brush, but looking into it even back in book 5 shows the timelines don’t match up no matter how you stretch it.
Wetlandernw @69
Ahh, paying attention as always. That depends up0n how many days make a week. Here in our illusion, we use 7…
Kah-thurak @71
I misspoke, but my rationale remains. It takes a few steps to develop, so please bear with me. The references to Hawkwing’s great sword Justice don’t provide any suggestion that it is an object of the Power. It is plausible to suppose, though not specifically confirmed, that it is Power-wrought, as is Lan’s sword, or Tam’s sword, or Laman’s sword. None of those weapons is more special than that. In the hands of the High King who despised use of the One Power, who was not himself a channeler, a sa’angreal would be no more special than any other sword. Given that, for all of the legendary status of the weapon, and its connection to the leader of the Heroes of the Horn, nobody would suspect it of being anything more.
So, the thinking in the spoiler line, if it is indeed Rand’s POV, would more appropriately be that nobody knew what it was, or what it could do, rather than saying nobody knew that he had it.
The only caveat I can think of to this, would be that one or more of the Forsaken might recognize Justice as more than simply another Aes Sedai-made weapon. Semirhage is in the same place as Rand when he first receives it, but he doesn’t visit her prior to her attack on him, and through him on Min. Supposing that the scabbard is much less than three thousand years old, she would have no opportunity to recognize the sword it contains. So perhaps, Rand’s secrecy about Justice is because Lews Therin knew it for being more significant, but that flies in the face of the first POV thought about the weapon:
That’s an exceptionally strong misdirection line if Lews Therin knows that Justice is an object of the Power, to steer us away from him being the one who recognized it.
We shall see.
Shannon123456,
It is indeed authorial canon that Olver cannot be Gaidal Cain, answered directly with the explanation that the time relationship with Tel’aran’rhiod cannot include reversal.
OK, I hate to be a big pain in the a** about this, but now I can’t find where to “re-sign” up for the spoilers?
Do we need to?
Anyone have any ideas?
Should we automatically get them today?
Any idea about time?
Thanks!
I think Jur Grady’s baby son, Gadren, is Olver – described as big for his age and ugly as a stump. (ToM, Ch. 10)
@imriel
I think you got that wrong :P
@Freelancer
You may well be right, but on the other hand the quote does not really say that the “mysterious item” has any channeling properties. So it could be Justice. Or something else entirely.
Oddball theory – The POV is Davram Bashere. He could be referring to a ter’angreal that hides DFs from the light (assumption based on the opposite object described by Aviendha). It may let him evade Rand’s new DF super-sniffer, and it’s secrecy would be important in terms of his relative standing in the DF ranks (not to mention his ability to stay near Rand). This may fit with the long-ago dream about the unseen man and Rand (I know the whole Gray-man explanation exists, but that always seemed too literal for a dream) and Min’s viewing of something dark around Bashere et al. It’s an out there idea, but maybe not without merit.
@@@@@ 78. imriel452; I thought that too. But was shot down on the WOT re-read by someone who’s talked to the authors.
I just can’t find the reference.
@Tek
Irene’s post @36 mentioned that if you still haven’t gotten the email then you should email her directly at irene.gallo@tor.com.
Other poster’s found the email in their Spam Box.
If you’ve already tried these solutions, then I apologize for the redundancy.
Or shoutbox me and I’ll forward it to your email if you get the next one, but still don’t have the previous one.
Not received the email yet :(
~lakesidey
It’s either Rand or a total mystery. I have a feeling it’s Rand. Lots of the blog posts have debated the ‘where’ of Maradon. But I think the ‘how’ is more important. It was used there. Who did more at Maradon than the storm of light himself: Rand. So, it’s either Rand or total guesses.
I think it’s an object of the power, probably an Angreal or stronger used by Rand.
imriel452 @78 & Braig_Tug @81 – The problem with Gadren is the same as the problem with Olver; he’s too old. When Birgitte is ripped out of the pattern, Gaidal has been gone for a matter of days; when Rand first sees Gadren a little more than a month later, he thinks the child is four years old. Even Rand couldn’t possibly mistake a newborn for four years old – and that’s without taking into account RJ’s statement that the soul enters the body (spun out of TAR, in this case) “I’d have to say as a fetus. When the body becomes capable of sustaining life.” At the point Gaidal disappeared from TAR, whoever he will be is still in the womb; whether he’s got 9 months to go or only 2 – or something between – depends on how RJ was defining “sustaining life.” In either case, Gadren is too old. My pet theory is that Gadren has a new baby brother we haven’t met yet, but I certainly can’t prove it. Brandon has, however, said that he knows who actually is Gaidal reborn.
Freelancer @76 – Well, if you want to look at it that way… ;)
@Irene and Tor.com moderators
Again, thank you so much for providing us with these Memories to whet our appetite for the big release.
I do have a slight favor to ask, if possible (I know, you’re thinking “They want more? These guys are insatiable!) For those of us who didn’t get the email yesterday and are becoming slightly paranoid (and for everyone else, for that matter), could you let us know approximately when the next Memory is planned to be sent out?
That way, if those who didn’t get the first email don’t receive it a second time, we’ll know to email Irene directly right away, instead of posting on this site variations of “I haven’t gotten it yet. Has anyone else?”
If this suggestion is helpful and feasible, cool. If not, no big deal; just an idea.
Loony Theory: Rand is thinking of LTT’s ability to detect life (seen in TEOTW prologue, and mentioned by Sanderson to return) which is why his weaves were so accurate in only killing shadowspawn.
Loonier Theory: Gaidal hasn’t been born yet. He will be the horribly ugly child of the Beautiful Galad and Berlain. Why? Because it would be hilarious.
I don’t think these are true, but if they are I called it.
Olver could be Gaidal Cain. Birgitte fond of not-too-good-looking boys. also mentioned Cain could be Olver’s age at the time (based on their respawn timeframes)
You might want to read up higher a bit, this was brought up just this thread. Olver cannot be Gaidal and the time frames do not match up. By the time Gaidal disappeared from T’A’R Olver was already alive and running around. The time disrepancy only works forward, you cannot leave T’A’R and then come into the real world in the past before you ever left.
I’m not trying to be rude here but no. Olver is NOT Gaidal. This has been discussed to death and has been flat denied by RJ himself. There are plenty of ugly little boys in the world, I’m sure the same is true in Randland. Please keep your focus on the topic at hand.
I’m not sure whose PoV this was but knowing sneaky WOT team I’m assuming it’s not as simple as Rand thinking about his swanky new angreal.
I also really hope he doesn’t have one. That Maradon scene looses some of it’s impact if he’s boosting his natural ability. Maybe that’s just me. I just like the idea that he can do all that without any angreal to help him. He should be at his full strength now and as DR we should expect him to be vastly beyond what the world has been used to.
Day Two –
“I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?”
“I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?”
On this one I have simply no clue at all… Welcome to day two however!
Androl is Jain Farstrider’s son.
Still not getting emails with the memories. Signed up twice. Plz fix.
No fair, two of you beat me to the punch posting today’s. Sorry for those of you who aren’t getting the emails. :(
I’m so excited about this quote, because I hope it leads into a long-winded Shara story – that would be so cool! I don’t care so much who is asking and who is telling, I just want to know. :D
Anyone else jumping straight to the conclusion that someone is talking to Siuan? I remember her mentioning to Moiraine in NS about the time she went. Could be her new warder asking, not too sure who else. Eg has a lot on her plate right now, maybe she wants the distraction. Could even be the much awaited reunion of Siuan and Moiraine.
Probably because I’ve just finished re-reading NS however, could be someone asking about Jain in remembrance of his sacrifice in MT
@91 and 92
Thanks for letting us know it was sent out. I got this one; I hope the other folks who missed the first one got this one as well. It was received by my inbox at about 10:05 PST, if that helps folks in their search.
Thanks for getting this to us, Tor.com!
As for the quote, I… don’t know yet. :-) Gotta think about it…
“I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?”
While I’d love to speculate about Jain Charin having a son, or Berelain meeting up with her Hawkwing family sent to Shara, I think this teaser is just having a bit of fun with us.
The tone seems glib. It sounds like somebody talking to someone who is making bold claims about his travels with his father. “Please, do tell me more about how you once sailed to the moon on a Sea Folk raker…”
House Cleaning Note:
The emails should go out around noon-1:00 each day.
If you don’t get them, please email me: irene.gallo@tor.com
That should keep from clugging up the conversation and it makes it easier for us to get your email to manually add it to the list.
Enjoy!
Maybe it’s Pevara talking to an Ashaman. Isn’t one of them fairly knowledgable and given to tale telling?
@99 Nalaam is known for story-telling, and claims to have been to one of the rarely visited Sea Folk isles (among other things).
Irene @98 and others @tor- I got both emails on time…so working fine for me.
With regards to the first, I feel the most obvious is Rand referring to an ‘angreal (s or t), but the less obvious would be a dreadlord also referring to the same who was directing or observing the battle at Maradon.
With regards to the second, I believe Tom is the most famous “storyteller” we know. I am not sure if he ever indicated he went to Shara, but I could see Moiraine maybe asking him during some quiet time. Or for that matter if he talks about his father being a gleeman/traveler.
Heridfan @93 – Do we know for sure Androl is Jain’s son? I can’t recall this but it is the leader in the clubhouse if true.
Its porbably Pevara talking to Androl. Androl has shown that he possesses quite a bit of knowledge about far off places and lots of things. We see an example of that again in the second chapter of AMOL. I think this knowledge and the fact that he is “almost” able to form the gateway inside the black tower is going to be key to rescuing the Black Tower.
Regarding today’s quote…
By the tone it seems to me that the individual asking the question is not necessarily comfortable with the person to whom they are speaking. I know I don’t have surrounding context to back this up, but it doesn’t come off as sarcastic to me…more like someone who is formal, uptight, or uncomfortable with the person they are speaking with. My first thought was of Pevara as well…I know someone mentioned that above…in her dialogue with the Asha’men she has always seemed a bit on edge and uncomfortable to me…
Immediate thought was Pevara to Androl. She tried leading him into these types of conversations a few times and thanks to the audio of Chap 2 I can even hear the ladies voice saying this like a PevAnd conversation.
I hope Justice is the missing sa’angreal and when Rand meets little Miss Cauthon, one of her damane sees it and has a Foretelling saying the prophecy they have is wrong that Rand won’t submit but Seanchan must submit to him.
Rand remembers it because he saw it in TGH prior to LTT being introduced in his mind.
Thank you Irene. All is well in my inbox! Message received!
Interesting line! Pevara to Androl is a good guess, as he has mentioned many times the various things he’s done/been, and that he’s traveled a lot. Could he be Jain’s son? He doesn’t need to be, to have done all that he has. But would a channeler go to Shara? It doesn’t sound like a very safe place for them. Of course, Androl is weak. Ummmmm..
Others that crossed my mind were Rand asking Morianne? We’ve had no indication that she’s ever been there, but perhaps in the days before Laman destroyed Avendolora, and there was trade with Cairhein throught the Waste, she might have gone. Doubtful.
Who is a big story teller? Thom? Did Siuan go there? I don’t remember that.
Arlen Nalaam has a habit of telling big stories, claiming his father is a merchant, a spy, etc. It seems quite reasonable that it’s another case like ToM Chapter 46, where some of the Asha’man are giving him a hard time about it:
It sounds very like either someone being sarcastic, or some young noob asking naive questions. What it really sounds like is Olver, recently introduced to Nalaam.
As for the idea of Androl being Jain Farstrider’s son… it’s a lovely idea, but I don’t see it. Androl is Taraboner, for one thing, and Jain was as Malkieri as it’s possible to be (short of being Lan). There’s no indication he was the sort to have a girl in every port, and he did have a wife that he loved very much. There’s also no mention of a son in his travels, and certainly enough people have read his book – and commented on various trivia in it – that I think we’d have noticed.
Also – I can find mention of Siuan telling Moiraine about watching the ships sail into Tear full of cargo from Shara, but no mention of either her or her father going to Shara themselves. Her father was a poor fisherman, not a merchant mariner.
Since Rand has Hawkwings sword Justice and it has a role to play could it be a gift to Tuon? She did not appear to recognize it when they last met but then Rands presentation of himself overshadowed everything else.
Regarding the suggestions that yesterday’s quote about Maradon is Bashere musing about a shadow-hiding tool, nope, I can’t see it. Bashere is with Rand often and everywhere, he wouldn’t have any reason to refer just to Maradon. Surely he has seen Rand other times than at Maradon since Rand’s epiphany.
Thank you Irene I got the second email.
Wetlander-
I stand corrected. Got my scenes crossed there. I remembered her discussing her father and her sense of adventure and apparently combined the two in my head without any reason!
She clearly says she would try to get ashore IF she went – like the sailors she used to watch. My apologies.
I vote for it being someone asking Androl. We’ve already seen his propensity for storytelling in the excerpts of AMoL already released. And I’ve long speculated who or what he is. He obviously is NOT just a common man, come to the BT just out of curiosity. Him being Jain’s son…that would fit for me. He certainly does seem to have been to and done much more than anyone else at this time and place in the story.
I think Taim doesn’t need a angreal to blow up a wall. I don’t think that much Power is needed for that. And Taim is strong. Now Rand is in peace with himself, or appears to be, and has all the memories and strenght of LTT, the channeling he did at Maradon doesnt’t sound that special to me. After all, he is the Dragon.
@pyrefire – I have to say I agree with you. If he did have some sort of angreal such as the little fat man I don’t think BS would have cheated us off-screen on Rand finding it again. If this is the case that Rand actually has another sa/angreal via Rhuidean/or something else then I might be a little disappointed that it wasn’t shown on the books.
I think it might be Taim but I don’t know what.
It doesn’t make any sense for Bashere to be a Darkfriend and require a tool which hides Shadowspawn or Darkfriends from the Light. Consider what we know from the prologue and from chapters 1&2 in MoL. Isham has been ordered to kill Rand al’Thor “as quickly and directly as possible.”
Why not give the order directly to Bashere who not only is with Rand everywhere, but who also has most of his trust. I’m sure that with a Thrakan’dar blade Bashere could make quick work of Al’Thor given his previous injuries sustained from the Chosen and Padan Fain.
Speaking of Fain, have we had any confirmation of exactly the nature of his… lament?
Would it be to much to have a new thread started for each quote?
I’ve read the books through a couple of times but I sure don’t have the indepth feel for who was where at what time and with what motives as a lot of people do. Hopefully this last book kicks so much that I’ll have to do a complete re-read (again) or buy the audiobooks.
I’m trying to think of who might have contact with Shara.
Do the Seanchan trade with them? Could this be Egeanin talking to Rand? or Elayne? How about the Athan Miere? They trade with Shara, dont’ they? Could it be a wavemistress talking with Rand?
I’m just trying to think outside our (mindset) box here. Anyone?
Completely off topic, but… I found Demandred (#114)
Ogier
Crazy Loony Theory of the Day:
Jain Farstrider can channel and he is Androl’s father.
Jain Charin was young when he captured Cowin Fairheart, perhaps through luck which seems to be an inherent part of men channelling – from this i I refer to NS, when they talk about lucky men being killed by the Black, because they know the Dragon is Reborn, but they don’t know when or who.
He wanders all over the World, falling in loce and fathering Androl at some point, when he discovers he can channel.
He heads for the Eye of the World, and discovers the Town in the Prologue of AMoL, where the Male Aiel Channelers go.
There he is mind-screwed by Ishy, and then set free – he finds his way to the Stedding where he recovers – OP not having an effect in the Stedding. He leaves and somehow finds a way to hold the madness at bay for a stupid amount of years, to die clean at the hands of the *Finn.
Probably the theory with the most holes ever, but a fun little one all the same.
Queue laughter!
LOL, the first day’s quote… I think I have figured it out.
It IS Rand, and what it is that he has that noone else knows is NOT Justice, but RATHER it’s scabbard, which is the largest WELL ever made for a male to use.
LOL it fits with Legend also.. as the sword from the Lady in the Lake, wasn’t near so special as the scabbard!… With that scabbard on, no wound could kill you… Oh this fits so very nicely with the end of the series, and wraps up the Arthurian (Arturian?!?) legend!
We can make new threads for each day. I thought one post (or one a week) might keep the conversation more fluid, but if it’s easier to organize thoughts with a clean slate, no problem.
a new one each day would be lovely if you could Irene – that way it keeps us from reposting about various other MoL, and someone having to trawl back from post 1043 to post 71 about the fact that Olver is not Gaidal for some bizarre reason :)
Irene@122- I actually like what the second part of your original plan was regarding the posts; one thread a week encompassing (I assume) all 5 of that week’s Memories. It does keep the conversation more fluid. It may allow for links to the daily Memories (although probably unlikely) or to ideas. There is the potential for the posts to get a little unwieldy, but there is nothing to stop you guys from starting another thread at that point, if circumstances call for it.
I’m happy with whatever you give us, but put me down for a single post a week!
I’ve signed up twice for the previews, but I haven’t gotten anything in my mailbox the past two days. What gives?
Ok, obviously talking about other sites is verboten…
The theory I like is this is a line from the epilogue, when we are looking back, and the father in this quote is referencing one of our main characters. I’d like to think it’s Mat, post-Seanchan reconquista, goes to Shara and mops up things there – hence why the Seanchan would build “train” lines across the Aiel Waste.
I keep hearing Theory’s of the True Power. But as referenced numerous times thru the Series the “True Power”, as in the power Rand used against
Semirhage was the Power granted from the Dark One. It tears the pattern apart and as Rand used it more it allowed the Dark One to enter into his soul. Thus those around him would glimpse an unatural “Dark Aura” around him.
I do not think Rand’s reference to The Border Land monarchs as a sign that he can still “willingly” channel the True Power. The hesitation and delay in response shows that he actually fears the True Power.
Beyond the fact that all this is confirmed when Lews Therin claims “No we can not…..That is HIM”.
I am wondering if it is not Moridin “reclaiming” Farstrider as he did Lanfear. Maybe Jain survived and was captured by the ‘finn. No body = Not dead? Has anyone ever confirmed with B.S. that he is really and truly gone?
Crazier looney theory: Bashere=Demandred. After all, he has been off building an army.
Except we know Demandred’s alias has not been seen before COT (confirmed by both RJ and BWS), and Bashere appeared in TFOH.
I like the idea of Androl being the son Jain, but I think this is Mat asking Tuon/Fortuona to tell something more about herself.
Irene – I’d vote for one post a week as well.
Tek @116. I like your thinking outside the box ;) but why would Rand mention “the father” if he was talking to Egeanin or some Athan Miere? Except of course if said person just previously mentioned him.
This quote can’t really confirm or link to any character. There’s not enough info. But it does tell us that Shara will play a part in the story. It’s really the last area we haven’t met. We’ve been to Seanchan/Seandar and Tremalking, albeit briefly. My money is on Demandred in Shara.
116.Tektonica
Outside the box: The Tuatha’an are allowed to cross the Waste. Do they go to Shara? Egwene Dream Need-search brought her to a Tinker campsite. Maybe she will meet Raen again and utter this sentence?
That said, I don’t think it fits the tone of the sentence, as I see it:
1) Respectfully deferential.
2) To someone known for telling impressive stories.
3) To someone travelling with his father on an independent adventure, not as two individuals in a bigger group.
I don’t think the father can be Jain, even if he sired a dozen sons, because from his biography he never actually behaved as a father or husband, only as a Hero.
117. Peasant
Quickly, peek under the hood to see if it’s Taim!
@Irene
I think once a week is the best solution.
Only one thread will quickly be overwhelming.
If you have a new thread every day, you’ll only have 20-30 posts per thread, because latecomers will think that no-one will read what they write, because everyone else will go to tomorrow’s thread.
We also haven’t seen much of Murandy… have we? Maybe it’s king is Demandred…?
There is no way this is one of the power characters…Rand, Moridin, Taim or The Chosen One. The script of the language is too petty. They would be proud and take it in stride. If something was known, it was known, no changing that. Small objects would simply work towards their goals or not.
Just noticed that this connects to both posts…haha. I think this second one is refering to one of the Black whom has captured a group of channelers.
Has it been confirmed that Rand’s new sword is Justice?
Cause when I first read about it, I thought it might be high lord Turak’s. That’s why it wasn’t given the limelight Justice deserves!
What was the #2 excerpt? Many of us are STILL not getting the emails.
@Irene. Is it possible to post the excerpt daily in the text at the top of this thread after it has been emailed. At least we’ll not all be moaning!
Thanks
“TITLE – The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 1 – Tears from Steel
He relaxed his hand on his sword, though he did not release it. He ?ngered the cloth-tied hilt. The weapon was long, slightly curved, and the lacquered scabbard was painted with a long, sinuous dragon of red and gold. It looked as if it had been designed speci?cally for Rand—and yet it was centuries old, unearthed only recently. How odd, that they should ?nd this now, he thought, and make a gift of it to me, completely unaware of what they were holding. . . . He had taken to wearing the sword immediately. It felt right beneath his ?ngers.
He had told no one, not even Min, that he had recognized the weapon. And not, oddly, from Lews Therin’s memories—but Rand’s own.”
Does Rand had this sword while fighting at Maradon? Perhaps that is the clue to the memory from Day 1.
Oh okay, that definitely sounds more like justice than any high lord’s sword!
Kah-Thurak @79
You make my point in your response. I don’t believe the item related to the quote is Rand’s new sword, Justice. Whatever it is may or may not be an object of the Power, but it was important at Maradon. The most important thing that happened there was Rand wiping out the shadowspawn hordes to save the city. If an object had been important to Ituralde we would have seen it in action, since there was great detail of his thought and movements during that battle. We can no longer have a POV from Yoeli or Torkumen. Aside from Rand, the only likely POV character would be an Asha’man.
ChaosBlack @138
Yes, confirmed that the sword is Justice. It cannot be Turak’s. From TGS ch1:
From TGH ch45, describing Turak preparing to fight:
Turak’s sword is described three times as heavy, and curved. The swords which Rand has carried have all been long and slightly curved. Plus, Turak’s cannot be described as centuries old, or in any condition which would have scholars unearthing it from an archaelogical dig.
Im going with Moraine to Thom; Seems those two share a past that we dont know much of. The lovey dovey stuff caught me by surprise! I didnt see it coming! WTF lol
Turak was a blademaster and, if I’m not wrong, with the heron-mark. Rand’s new sword don’t have de heron-mark.
Hawkido@121: I like it!! The “didnt’ know what they were holding” part, especially, could confirm that it was a well. Or just Justice. I still don’t understand how Rand knows this sword, but not from LTT’s memories? Anyone?
up2stuff@128: Good question! But wouldn’t Ishy know all about Shara? I don’t know…the Forsaken seem to get around.
@Tek
I guess he saw Hawkwing wield it at the battle of Falme.
No. I am not Mazrim Taim. Taim has been elevated to the Chosen and given the name M’Hael (yes, that’s Teacher in the Old Tongue). Your gaze upon my vestige is worthy of Compulsion. Though I am not as skilled as Graendal in this, I assure you that the effect will be sufficient.
I am not Davram Bashere. To think that I would wear such fashions as his mustache is appaling. To think you know me is foolhardy. My designs upon this world rival that of the Great Lord himself. The supposition that I presntly reside in Murandy is well made, though I find it odd that you assume I would adopt such a facade as to be Roedran.
The answers are there… you must look harder if you are to find me.
thank you for posting about “Spoiler Thread for the Memories of Light”..but what is it?
Might have signed up too late for the one about Maradon, so I never got that. Got the one about going to Shara though.
The one from Maradon, I doubt has to do with Rand’s sword or the One Power. The POV is unclear, but dunno whose exactly.
The one from Shara. It looks like small talk. Like someone egging on another person well known for telling tall tales.
hmm
House Cleaning Note:
1) The Thread
We’ll shoot for a new thread each Monday and see if that is a good compromise between keeping the conversation fluid without becoming overwhelming. But feel free to let us know if we need to cut it off before then.
2) To the folks that did not receive the email….
We’ve added everyone that emailed me up to this point. You should get today’s email around noon.
After looking into the issue, we have discovered that pre-existing Tor.com users who were already logged into the site when attempting to register for the Memories of Light were not sent to the registration page (located at http://www.tor.com/memories-of-light), but rather were given an automatic confirmation of their registration.
This means that if you tried to sign up for the Memories of Light in this manner, your email has not been added to the list.
The error has since been corrected, so if you still wish to receive the daily previews of A Memory of Light, follow these steps:
1.) Visit the registration page here: http://www.tor.com/memories-of-light
2.) Log in with your existing Tor.com account in the fields on the right side of the page.
You should once again receive a confirmation page saying that you have successfully registered.
Thank you for your patience while we sorted this tangle out. There’s lots more to come from the Memories of Light!
Irene
Sorry for the length and spelling but here it goes
Concerning Memory #2, I do like the epilogue theory best, but would like to speculate on the theory that the son/daughter being asked the question in memory #2 might be a Tinker.
We have very few valid mentioning in the books (or from the authors) of persons who have direct contact with Shara.
(Not Jain or his son/daughter, he will have his own part to play when the horn is sounded again.)
The Atha’an Miere only go there to trade and then are only allowed strictly censured contact with locals while trading… same goes for the Aiel. The only people allowed into the waste are gleeman (for entertainment? I say not Thom cause we have had no mention of his parents only nephew, why start now?), peddlers (for trade w/ Aiel) and the Tuatha’an who everyone including the Tuatha’an know the Aiel treat like lepers.
The Tuatha’an keep moving in hopes of finding “the Song”. What would be the point for Tinkers to travel the waste, some god forsaken hell of a desert, where the local Aiel wouldn’t say a word to them even if there where dire need (except that once) unless the people on the other side in Shara communicate on some level with them? Obviously the Aiel won’t tell them about “the song” and Tinkers don’t even bother trying with them anymore. Tinker’s seem to trade a little or offer mending services where ever they go but that isn’t why they travel (they aren’t merchants or peddlers). Why else would they bother with traveling the waste unless the Sharan’s are somewhat more hospitable than the Aiel and probably more hospitable than they are to other visitors or it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort to cross the waste.
Maybe JonathanLevy #116 is right about Egwene asking memory #2 to a Tinker. But I’d be more inclined to think it’s Mat, we saw in the ch. 11 preview that he made note of the large encampment of Tuatha’an outside of Ebou Dar. And the quote has the ring kinda of Mat’s usual casual banter, curious yet pressing; we have often seen him in probing conversations with persons of cultures/groups that remain somewhat unfamiliar to readers, example: Aludra, Seanchan (Sulddam/Damane/Gaurds), loose lipped tavern drunks everywhere, etc….
Memory of light day three TOTALLY Mat talking to Perrin.
Sounds more like Loial…
“Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn’t you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.”
Yes, I think it is Mat talking to Perrin also.
Memory 3 has got to be Loial
Definitely Loial. The voice is all wrong for Mat.
I think it’s more Loialish than Matish too.
yeah, i think Loial as well. just a little too formal to be Mat.
I also believe #3 is Loial.
About time he came back.
Yeah, Loial makes much more sense to me than Mat. Mat would never admit he likes being married, he is too fond of whining about it.
Yay Loial!
“Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn’t you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.”
It’s nice to see that Loial’s happy. :-)
I agree…90% chance Loial, 9% chance Mat, 1% Bill Clinton.
Tek @@@@@ 146..
I’ll elaborate. I don’t really think Moridin is gathering info. I see him in his hideout, Noal strapped to a chair, and Mor is re-establishing control.
We know there have been times when Noal would “go blank” in the midst of a story, supposedly as a result of conditioning, as per several theories about his venture into the blight.
Now, Moridin obviously has some kind of agreement with the Finn since he could retrieve Lanfear. Maybe he knew one of his other “tools” would wind up there too.
So, he retrieves Noal who may or may not still be under his control as a result of his ‘Finn-land (not Finland) trip. It desolved Lan’s Warder bond. Maybe works on Compulsion, too. As a test, to check the “Calibration” he asks for info he knows about both Noal AND Shara. Like baseline questions on a lie-detector test.
Contrary to other opinions, I think this sounds distant and analytical. Keeping the person talking, while he does his work.
Loial got to b
I agree it sound more like Loial than Mat.
It must be Loial. It doesn’t sound like Mat. Rand has been married to Min in all but name for more than a year now.
@154 @155
Mat to Perrin (definitely to Perrin, regardless of who it is, since it says it in the quote) was my first thought, though it does have Loial’s more…refined…language. Good call zelja, I hadn’t even considered Loial.
My memory came in while I was typing above. I agree with Loial to Perrin.
Looks like Loial… But could be Mat (supposing Brandon has forgotten Mat style…)
Loial or maybe Berelain even.
Definitely Loial.
Adding my vote for day 3 being Loial. I really hope we get to see the wedding. That would be so cute!! :)
no nrainer. Loial.
I miss Loial. He hasn’t been around for a while.
Day 3:
“Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn’t you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.”
Three guesses who this ones from… mat, mat or matrim
Still good to see they are back in the same scene.
@Irene—The email time is convenient enough for me and for most people. But if you do it just a few hours earlier, you could catch the eastern Australians before they go to bed and therefore catch very nearly everyone. For example, at 10am eastern, it would be midnight for eastern Australians (Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne), and 7am for those on the US west coast. Basically, daytime for everyone except Alaska and Hawaii and New Zealand. 9am eastern would be even better; at least it’s posted just before the US west coasters wake up, as opposed to right after the eastern Australians go to bed.
I see that the vast majority of folks are assigning Memory #3 to Loial, and I am 98% supporting that choice.
But for a fun darkhorse candidate, how about we consider Gaul? Maybe the Aiel adjust their views/treatment/behavior regarding gai’shain due to some action of the Car’a’carn/Dragon and Gaul is able to marry Chiad and Bain?
Just a fun thought; the speaker is most likely Loial.
Arila@175 – If your referring to Loial’s wedding, well then I believe we already saw it in Knife of Dreams, conducted by Elder Haman, with Loial’s mother in attendance as witness.
Could be Loial, certainly. Could be Mat, although he really hasn’t done the “married” thing yet…just the marrying. He could just be commenting on the idea of it?? Doubtful.
Maybe Berelain and Galad??? Hahaha.
Thank you, Kathurak@147: I wonder what will happen when the horn is blown and hawkwing doesn’t have his sword? A fight? Or will be a “ghostly” sword. Justice in pairs?
Thanks for the elaboration too….it sounds like an Ishy thing to do.
If we think of the men in this story, who have less experience being married than Perrin:
1) Mat – He really hasn’t done the married thing, and the voice is wrong.
2) Gaul – Voice is totally wrong (not solemn enough for Gaul), and if he is married, unless this happens a *long* time after TG, he hasn’t been away from Perrin long enough to express it in such a way.
3) Rand – Not really married, but certainly close enough to it with Min. But the voice, again, isn’t right, and I doubt Perrin would have any advice for the man who’s married to (or as good as) 3 women.
4) Random Dupotamian – would be more respectful to Perrin
5) Galad – Would be more formal
6) Loial – Voice fits, time apart fits
Gaul gets my vote.
As for Memory #1 I agree with some earlier thoughts that it is the unknown angreal Lanfear stated was one of the two more powerful than Callindor that a male could use. I think Verin left instructions in her letter on where / how to retrieve it. I’m in the re-read of ToM and I just got past the bubble of evil in Tear that Nyn was helping with. The chapter started by her stating how Rand had gon to retrieve something that morning and not told anyone what it was.
As for Memory # 2 Egwene is as likely as any I’d say. More so then others.
Memory # 3 is definitely Loial.
#3 is totally Loial. It’s got to be. I just remember Loial talking with Perrin about being married, I think in LoC, maybe on the journey to rescue Rand at Dumai’s Wells? It just seems like a follow up to that conversation. IIRC, that was the last time he and Perrin spent any real time together.
#2 I think is Pevara talking to either Androl (Farstrider?) or Nalaam.
#1 Not sure, it seems too obvious to be Rand, but who else could it be? Don’t like the Bashere as DF idea that someone posted. Just doesn’t seem right to me.
As for #3 being about Loial…..When was the last time Loial saw Perrin? In the Two Rivers. Perrin got married there, but didn’t Loial leave after the battle to do Rands work? He wouldn’t have had much time to observe Perrin/Faile…which wasn’t a pretty sight at the beginning of their relationship, iirc. So why would Loial be asking why Perrin didn’t tell him marriage was so good? Unless, he’s just making polite conversation.
If it is Loial..good. Nice to have him back!
I’m sad to say I pretty much forgot about Loial, though when I read the comments here I agreed perfectly. To be honest, my first thought was that it was Perrin’s distant cousin from back at the end of TSR, all grown up in some sort of epilogue. Definately don’t think it’s Mat or Gaul though. Considering that Mat’s married to Fortuona, and Gaul is already suffering Bain and Chiad’s gai’shain antics, I’m pretty sure that being married for them is just as bad as they think it’s going to be. ;)
Memory #1 is Rand, probably the sa’angreal Lanfear mentioned. I totally forgot about that trip Rand took in ToM after the Tear bubble, but that fits really well.
Memory #2 I’m betting is Pevara to Androl, or maybe jalaam (less likely).
Memory #3 is definitely Loial.
And Charlz Guybon is Demandred, not Rhoedran or Bashere. Demandred might be in Shara, but I doubt it.
Loial
KiManiak
I loved the idea of this being Gaul, full marks for looking beyond the obvious candidates.
I somehow can`t see Gaul talking about being “fond” of being married. Mock-grumbling or mock-resigned maybe, but this doesn’t feel like Gaul’s humour. And the Aiel don’t seem to be half-hearted about anything.
But I can just hear Loial saying this.
I like the thought of Noal being rescued from the brink even if it is by Ishy. However I don’t think it is likely. Moiraine and Lanfear were kept by the Finn to feed off their ability to channel. Noal has no such ability and therefor was likely killed and skinned for Finn-fashion before the others even made camp that night.
Third memory is definitely Loial. He was so worried about it even when he couldn’t resist the thought. This clearly shows his relief that it is far more than worth the disadvantages he was concerned about. A classic case of how you can’t understand it till it happens to you. Love it!
Definately Loial to Perrin, Matt would never admit liking marraige
No updates for me in my Inbox yet, either. :/
So, nobody thought that #2 could be addressed to Loial or maybe Elder Haman?
I haven’t read the all the posts here yet. So if this has been covered, please forgive the repetition.
Concerning how Rand would recognize Justice, from The Great Hunt:
Yes, koseighty is correct- that’s where I figured Rand knew where the sword was from.
If #3 was Gaul, he would say ‘Perrin Aybara’, not simply ‘Perrin’.
My first thought had been Mat, but I’m sure it’s Loial. I can’t imagine those words coming from Mat, even with Sanderson’s take on Mat. It would never fit him at all.
Agreed, #3 sounds like Loial. I could hear Kate Reading’s Loial in my head when I read it. Galad is really the only other person it could be. As others have noted, Gaul doesn’t speak like that, and Mat would never admit to liking marriage that bluntly.
… i forgot about loial. I’d like to take a fourth guess and go with him.
Tek,
Loial was with Perrin all the way up until Rand sent both Perrin and him on separate missions in a Crown of Swords. he comments to Perrin, I believe in LoC that Perrins marriage is so excitable and he wouldnt like a marriage like that
The more I think about #2, the more I’m sure it’s Pevara being all glib with Androl or another Asha’man. I don’t think she’s being really serious here, or that she actually thinks he went to Shara at all.
We’ve seen Cadsuane often use sarcastic language which doesn’t seem to break the her oath to never lie, so this could certainly be Pevara using the same tone. That’s what it sounds like to me, anyway.
#1, a DF from the DF group that attacked maradon that has the fat man
#2, nalaam is the one being asked. everyone thinks he lies but the story of his dad training in two rivers bow in illian? hey who knows maybe his mom really did infiltrate the tinkers – or not – and he probably claimed he’s been in shara, with his dad
#3, this is loial unless it’s part of the end and everyone is happy hugging and whatever and some unknown two river guy asks perrin that question, and if so it’s not really important now is it?
@@@@@ 146. Tektonica
The things that point me towards Memory#1 being about the scabbard is, LTT didn’t recognize “THE SWORD”, hehehe, but he did recognize the “SCABBARD”. Both sword and scabbard were acquired by Hawkwing from a false dragon (Guaire Amalasan) who the White tower could not take down. Yet Artur Hawkwing faced him in single combat and took him captive (I presume by knocking him unconcious, or using an underhanded scheme (like shooting him with sling stones during the Duel)). This false dragon got the scabbard from somewhere, It wasn’t made for him, because who would make such an item???, and it lasted for 1000 years under water, before being re-discovered? So it is an AoL power item. Who in the Age of Legends would carry a dragon flavored power wraught scabbard with a dragon on it? Yeah, well that guy wasn’t exactly know for having the second best of anything. The Scabard is LTT’s and it is the best “portable” Well for a male channeler. That is why the AS in Hawkwing’s era couldn’t take down that false dragon…
“HA! Shielded you!”
“Don’t matter” followed by ‘Splodey bits.
This False dragon would be quite certain that no one could take him down, so when challenged by a mere swordsman, no problem. OOPS!
The Shara thing…
Who could go:
Tinkers, no reason to say they couldn’t as the Aiel wouldn’t stop them.
Aiel, They traded with them.
Jain Farstrider, said as much.
Sea Folk, said as much.
Cairhien, before the Aiel war.
And one last group, Ogier.
Perhaps someone is chatting up Loial’s Dad?
Or Perhaps Moiraine took a trip with her “down to earth” Noble Dad to Shara, and Thom is probing her, you know, in-between probing her.
Imma stick with the Ogier, cause Thom is sticking Mo’.
I thought Mat and Perrin were done catching up with each other. So yeah, I think it’s Loial too.
I think today’s memory is probably Loial. Most definately the first is Rand, and Demandred is ruling Seanchean – He said he’s got an army, and what better army the the Seanchean?
@205 Walt Jones:
What about an army of red veiled Aiel channelers with pointy-filed teeth? ;-)
Tektonica @@@@@ 181
Why would Hawkwing not have his sword. He had it at Falme, when the one Rand has was buried somewhere. So he should have his Tel’aran’rhiod version when called again, and Rand can still have the real life version.
Tektonica @@@@@186
Loial went with Perrin to Caemlyn, and later to Cairhien. He went with Perrin to Dumai’s Wells. Then He spoke to Perrin after the staged fight in ACOS. Then he heads off with Karldin, and does not see Perrin again (so far.)
I believe he (Rand) is thinking of what he acquired in TGS, when he had to stop the forsaken from making him kill Min. Access to the True Power that Kinslayer screamed was “HIM” (the father of lies).
hawkido @121/202: Day #1: Dragon-Scabbard is a Well
I really like your idea of the Dragon-Scabbard that is a Well. Clever theory. I like that it plays on Arthurian Legend, not only because of what you said but also because over time a Sword-In-A-Well could easily change into a legend where a sword comes from a lake. Rand having the Sword From The Stone and the Sword From The Lake (Well) is very clever. Your points in 202 are also clever, and if reading the quote from TGS:Chapter 1 (@franz 141) from that perspective it still works well and seems to be trying to misdirect the reader to the sword on purpose.
The problem is this: if he used it at Maradon, unless for some reason someone can pull more of the power using a Well and the The Source of the One Power at the same time (I doubt it) then it doesn’t explain why he would have used it. Unless one of the chanellers happened to block Rand when he was out there, and he was ONLY using the Well. In that case: THAT IS A HUGE WELL to output that much power. Unless he only used it briefly to take out whoever was blocking him from The Source. So because of that I’m not completely convinced. But I like your theory none the less.
Walt Jones @205 and all other Demadred Guesses:
I’m pretty happy going with Demandred is married to the new Mistress of the Ships, making him Master of the Blades and giving him control of the entire Atha’an Miere army. Feels right. Of course most of the guesses would probably work.
Day #3 Sounds like Loial
@148 Demandred: I got it! You’re disguised as an Eveready battery. (Their slogan once briefly used to be “give me red” – if that ain’t ‘demand red’ I don’t know what is).
As for memory #3, I am going with Loial…(btw thanks Irene for resolving the issue! I am getting the mails now…)
~lakesidey
180.KiManiak
I love the idea of Gaul.
But there is a problem. Aiel usually call people by their full names. Even Aviendha always said “Rand Al’Thor”, and had a lot of trouble adjusting to the idea of calling him just “Rand” like Elayne does.
That said, a quick browse in TSR did find one instance of Gaul calling Perrin just “Perrin”, so maybe this isn’t much of a problem after all.
But the content better fits someone who ran away from marriage for a long time, and after succumbing to it discovers it’s not so bad. This isn’t really true of Gaul, is it? He’s been hoping for a wreath from Bain (or was it Chiad?) for a long time.
One name left out on #3 is Thom. Him and Moiraine must be back at the camp with Perrin after Finn-land. Min had told Moiraine that she would marry Thom. Loial is a good fit but not on location. Thom is there.
Maybe the Dragon-Scabbard is a buffer to correct the defect in the Sword-In-The-Stone and was needed for that purpose.
re: the scabbard- while I like the idea of it being a well (Arthurian parralells:)! What possible use could it have been at Maradon? Someone above said it wouldn’t have helped Rand’s massive use of the OP in Storm of Light, and I agree. A well doesn’t amplify the use of the OP, it simply holds extra saidin, regardless of the amount being held.
I think it’s the sa’angreal Lanfear mentioned re: more powerful than Callandor. The only problem with that is that we didn’t get to see Rand find this ‘onscreen’, which is really annoying!
Samadai@199: Thank you sir! **waves**
And JDauro@207…
Hawkido@202: I like the idea of the scabbard being a power object, a lot! But could it more likely be a sa’angreal?
I do like the idea of #2 being Pevara talking to the “braggert” Nalaam at the BT. Why else would we have been shown him? Red herring? Gun on the mantel?
I really think that some people are reading a lot more into the books then there is..On #3: It could be Egwene, (sorry if the name is not correct, i read in Dutch) properly married to Gawayn (sorry again;)? Or Galad/Berelain..Or just a person from Two Rivers. I think it’s also possible that it concerns Rand. Marrying his three (that’s three become one) girlfriends..or is he already married to one? i don’t think so..correct me if i’m wrong, i’m in doubt.
And where did Tam go to? Visiting Rand in Tear and at the same time recruting people in Two Rivers. This is suddenly mentioned at the end of book 13, but in the same book it’s clearly unknown where he went, after telling Perrin that he suddenly has to leave. I think he (Tam) also didn’t know where he was going. Strange. Aha! Maybe Demandred is Tam (the Tam with Perrin). He is recruting all the mercenaries in ‘Perrin’s group’….its a army..
Haha, now i’m the one who reads a lot into things…i can see the fun of it now..:)
And what is ‘the scabbard’??? Again, i’m reading the books in Dutch :)
Just got day 4…
“Pass his bond to me.”
Have to be honest, no idea who is saying it or who it is about, but man does this seem ominous.
Possible options of known current main characters…
Involves Pevara and Androl
Rand and Elayne/Avi/Min
Wait…Does Nynaeve have Lan’s as yet? Can’t remember…if not, then this is easy…Nynaeve to Myrelle about Lan.
Day 4 = Moridin to Alanna. I hope not, but I don’t think this will be good.
*Nay, Ultimate dread… Lanfear talking to Alanna.
Nynaeve
Memory #4: “Pass his bond to me.”
I think it is someone talking to Alanna. But who?
Perhaps Cadsuane, but i doubt it. Mayeb Fera, the other Black sister sworn to Rand besides Elza (who’s dead).
obviously moiraine to alana (sp) asking for rand’s bond
@217 Could be anybody, talking about any male bonded person, but my mind totally went to Cyndane ordering Alanna to pass Rand to her, because that shoe still has yet to drop.
@222 – That’s a good one. I hope so. :)
“Pass his bond to me”
I bet it’s Nynaeve talking to Myrelle. Just sayin, there’s no way the books will end without her actually holding Lan’s bond. That story arc has been going way too long to not close in the last book.
How about :
Cyndanne has got hold of Alanna
edit – gah, beaten to it…
I speculated a while back that this is how she got past Rand’s wards and into his dream in TOM epilogue. Maybe I was on the right track after all…
@226, oh that’s a wicked thought, but very possible too!
@225
Nynaeve got Lan’s bond in ToM.
I hope it’s Moiraine, not Cyndane to Alanna.
Nynaeve already has Lan’s bond…happened in ToM.
I like the idea that it is Moiraine to Alanna…but it’s even chillier thinking it’s Lanfear to Alanna (seems likely)…Initially I thought it might be Moiraine to Nynaeve if Lan was dying, maybe to take the pain away from Nyn.
I hope it’s Moiraine to Alanna…would be kinda awesome if Moiraine was bonded to Rand during the Callandor party at Shayol Ghul.
Moiraine intends to bond Thom and she’s not Green, so I don’t see her wanting another Warder.
@Blocksmith1: Nynaeve already has the bond. Book 13. Right after she passes her aes sedai-test…
I think it’s Moiraine to Nynaeve..and it’s concerns Lan. Wild theory…
Day 4:
Nynaeve already has the bond from Myrelle. She receives it in ToM Ch. 20 after she passes the test fo the Shawl.
It makes sense for it to be Moiraine to Alanna. There are no other Aes Sedai Rand would trust.
@226 missbee:
My first thought was Cyndane talking to Alanna too. I’ve had a suspicion she might be Black ever since she ran off. And she was in Verin’s company, visiting the Two Rivers back in tSR…
Titillating! Could be any number of characters….
My first thought was someone talking to Alanna. Perhaps Alanna is dying and whomever is speaking doesn’t want Rand to head right on back to crazytown. Maybe Cads or Moiraine? Gives me the chills to think about it being Cyndane. Just ugh…
Well, Rand’s bond (to Alanna) is a Chekov’s Gun waiting to be fired, so…Hopefully someone from Team Light, Moiraine or Cadsuane, but more likely Cyndane or another Team Dark member.
Though I don’t know if Team Dark would handle the bond well, since didn’t (I think) Lanfear at one point say that it was primitive yet impressive? I also doubt they would ask for it, rather than demanding or using Compulsion to get it.
@225 – Nyn already has Lan’s bond. After her test for the shawl, she went immediately to Myrelle to demand the bond be passed to her.
Today’s really has several possibilities, but the idea of someone speaking this to Alanna has a lot of merit.
It is a very flat statement with authority. Has to be Egwene to Alanna. She often considers herself “Green” and would be willing to bond more than one. And who else would she think should be bonded to DR but the AS.
Moiraine has bonded Thom, is “Blue” and will only bond one.
Cadsuane is a non-issue at this point as she has served her purpose by teaching humility through her incessant meddling with Rand to the point of breaking and his subsequent revelation and understanding on Dragonmount.
Could be Elayne I suppose but why since she is already bonded to him?
I say Egwene.
Just a wild theory: Maybe it is Moraine to Elayne?
I like Lanfear to Alanna.
Or, on another line of thought: maybe the 13×13 process is a “bond” of some kind. So, Taim to some random Black’a’man/Fade about another male channeler about to be “persuaded” in a painful way?
Thanks to all that reminded me of Nyn getting Lan’s bond in TOM…
Worst fear is someone is dying and another character is asking for the bond to be passed to save the bonded.
Still seems ominous.
I would side with someone asking Alanna to pass Rand’s bond…hopefully Moiraine. What if it were Moridin telling/forcing Alanna? Or Taim? I imagine since Elayne bonded Birgitte, that could happen as well. Tarantyla @229 could be on the right path with Lanfear/Cyndane also (or Graendal)…either way, that would suck bad. I’m just not sure what would induce Alanna to pass her bond to them unless they were threatening to kill Rand outright. I’m not sure she would do it for any other reason. Could compulsion be used to such an extreme?
Thanks to all that reminded me of Nyn getting Lan’s bond in TOM…
Worst fear is someone is dying and another character is asking for the bond to be passed to save the bonded.
Still seems ominous.
I would side with someone asking Alanna to pass Rand’s bond…hopefully Moiraine. What if it were Moridin telling/forcing Alanna? Or Taim? I imagine since Elayne bonded Birgitte, that could happen as well. Tarantyla @229 could be on the right path with Lanfear/Cyndane also (or Graendal)…either way, that would suck bad. I’m just not sure what would induce Alanna to pass her bond to them unless they were threatening to kill Rand outright. I’m not sure she would do it for any other reason. Could compulsion be used to such an extreme?
Just a wild theory [correction]: Maybe it is Egwene to Elayne?
No idea about the double post…it was an ok post but not worthy of reading twice.
“Pass his bond to me.”
Nice. The first thing I think of is that this is being spoken to Alanna Mosvani, and the Warder in question is Rand. And if I take the cue form A Memory Of Light’s cover, it’s Nynaeve or Egwene giving the order, before they accompany Rand, Callandor in hand, into Shayol Ghul.
Moirane to Alanna
Nynaeve already got Lan’s bond in ToM.
It could be either Nynaeve or Moiraine asking Alanna for Rand’s bond before they start their Callandor circle
to pyrefire – my dutch isn’t as well spelled as your english – but anyway scabbard is schede, of mischien hoes. Als je het zwaard niet gebruikt, dan drag je dat in een scabbard.
I think number 4 could be Lanfear/Cyndane to Elayne, but Alanna is a good bet too.
Blocksmith1 @@@@@ 241
“Worst fear is someone is dying and another character is asking for the bond to be passed to save the bonded.”
That is a very good point. We could be talking about any dying Warder or bonded Ashaman. Doesn’t even have to be a major character. A very nice red herring if that is true.
I’m pretty sure that the sword he found was the sword that Harriet gave Brandon from RJ’s collection that Brandon said made a cameo in the book. I suppose this doesn’t preclude it from also being Justice as well.
@216 – “Scabbard” is the sheath/casing in which a sword is housed to protect the blade (and wearer) from damage. At least, I’m guessing you just wanted the definition (once you have that, the rest of the pieces fall into place).
As far as Day 4, I’m wondering why is has to be ominous. I don’t get the emails, but was it accompanied by a *dun, dun, dunnnnn* sound clip?
Falling in with the Alanna camp, I’d consider Moiraine or Nyneave. The former to better help him, since as is mentioned above, he trusts her (and @231, I wonder if she was considered dead, and if so, does that destroy Ajah allegiances in the same way as gentling, and if not, it’s only tradition that has Greens bonding multiple, just like it’s only tradition that has Reds not bonding); the latter to try a last, best, chance at healing him after things go sideways on page 642.
Maybe someone bonds Mat (who was it that wanted to do that earlier?) and Tuon, in an embrace of her channeling ability, demands the bond be passed to her?
Is there anything preventing male bonding? If not, maybe one of Taim’s lackeys (or maybe one of the BT AS) bonds Androl, and this is Taim wanting control of that bond? I’d consider the bonding of Logain, but I don’t think a lackey could pull that off.
Maybe in a moment of sentiment, we discover that: a) Birgette can channel (she was only born a couple years ago) and b) we run into Gaidal Cain. Romance and sunshine and happiness and all that?
Or maybe it is Cyndane.
Also, I suppose it may not be practical, but perhaps a separate thread for each memory? With the memory itself at the top of the page. I’ve hopefully just fixed the fact that I haven’t been getting the emails, but it would be nice to not have to scroll through several hundreds to get to the new ones each time. Especially on a phone.
Sounds like Moiraine talking to Alanna before heading to Shayol Ghul.
Is anyone else concerned about how Rand can handle 3 (possiblity of 4 w/Moraine) bonds? I mean thats a lot of women feels. What if they werent on the same cycle… so many feels all month.
Anyway I think its Alanna talking to Moraine.
Most likely to be talking about Rand’s bond I think but could also be Pevara’s maybe, an order from a 13’d sister who outranks her? Although that wouldn’t free her from his bond.
I also like the Egwene to Elayne idea.
I’m just rereading ToM and I’m more and more convinced that Elayne is going to die. She is far far too confident in Min’s vieweing about her babies, it just seems like she just has to die in childbirth or some such. I can see Egwene demanding Rand’s bond before she dies.
Now for a far-fetched one just for fun: Joline sneak-bonds Mat, and Tuon demands his bond be passed to her =)
Its Elayne or Aviendha to alanna getting rands bond.
Its Elayne or Aviendha to alanna getting rands bond.
@@@@@180 KiManiakOh hey, I’m just on part 2 of the KoD re-read thread, so that might explain why I don’t remember it (the later books have only been read 1 time and usually in a bit of a frenzy to gobble it all up.
I *LOVE* the idea of it being Gaul! The phrasing is sort of formal-ish as has already been mentioned, so it could be aiel as well. @@@@@182 rhandric, as for it not being solemn enough, I bet being newlywed might make him crack a smile for his close friend. @@@@@211 JL – doesn’t Aviendha have a particular hang up about Rand vs. Rand Al’Thor because she fought the growing familiarity and feelings for so long? Gaul doesn’t have as many issues with his relationship with Perrin.
@@@@@209 WOTsUP: Great connections and working with the theme of stories becoming completely different than their original as time (and ages) passes. I like it!
@@@@@212 LMunger: wow I like your idea about it being a corrective mechanism for callendor too. I need to stop reading all of this or I’m going to be so mixed up! I just nod along with all of you experts. :)
As for Day 4 (now I’m not getting the emails? :( Fooey) My vote is for someone to Alanna. Not even going to try to guess who. I’m sure that MANY people would like to have a string attached to the DR. Could also be someone who holds the bond to an Asha’man who is going crazy, or who has just recently surpassed his AS in power and now she can’t control him. So maybe Caddy to one of her flunkies. BTW – 30 seconds go by, and now I have the email. :)
@@@@@218: Not Nyn to Myrelle, I haven’t re-read that book yet, but that was pretty much Nyn’s first order of business once she passed her test, and she’s already got it.
@@@@@222: Ooh, I like it as Moiraine! On the other hand ideas about Thom already being there and her only wanting one warder, and her realization several books ago that Rand doesn’t react well to being pushed/manipulated, I bet she wouldn’t do that behind his back.
@@@@@ several – scary thought about it getting to Lanfear/Cyndane. I don’t want it to happen…but I don’t want anyone to get stabbity-stabbed in the thriller movies either, but it would be boring without… @@@@@233 Aww crap – and wasn’t Verin telling Perrin or someone not to trust Alanna? Sigh.
@@@@@238: Egwene! I like this one too – and better for team light to have the male and female leaders linked up like that, I guess. Also kinda fits her current frame of mind about needing to take the lead.
Edit – sorry, I didn’t preview and it lost all of my paragraphs! Sorry about the paragraphs! Just nodding along with all of the latest theories, I like each one more than the last. So fun!
The dying warder idea gave me another idea.
The Seanchan woman that is going to help Rand “die” per Min’s viewing. She could be commanding Alanna as part of that event. Though I think she would say something like, “you will pass his bond to me” more in the manner of Seanchan dialect.
No I think I will go back to it must be Egwene. The tone of command is right. Of course, Elayne has that command in her voice too.
“Pass his bond to me.”
I am leaning toward Alivia saying this to Elayne…
This quote gave me chills…
I don’t know if anyone has speculated on this before in this way, but…
What if Justice is an Access Key and the Crystal Throne is its Sa’angreal?
Z
Just a wild thought; what if it’s a wise woman demanding the Car’a’carn’s bond from Alanna. Certainly sounds commanding enough for a wise woman.
@@@@@ 255:
“Anyway I think its Alanna talking to Moraine.”
Why would Alanna want Thom’s bond?
I’m not saying it’s definitely her, but to those that think it can’t be Moiraine in #4 because she’s a Blue (and already has a Warder), let’s remember Moiraine has done a whole lot of things that break with tradition/convention. Using balefire on Be’lal comes to mind, as does swearing to obey Rand.
She does what she feels she must, and if she feels she must bond Rand for the final confrontation then she will. “Hey Moiraine, why did you let the Universe end?” “Well, saving it would have required bonding another Warder, and, well, you know, we Blues just don’t do that sort of thing.” Yeah, I don’t see that happening.
I say Elayne/Avi to Alanna.
Or Lanfear/female forsaken to Alanna.
I immediately thought of Moiraine asking Alanna, but now Alivia seems to be a great idea, as this would tie up her thread of helping Rand die. But I feel pretty confident saying that this is someone talking to Alanna.
Why would Elayne ask Alanna to pass the bond to her? Elayne is already bonded to Rand. If she demands something, it would be for Alanna to remove this bond entirely, which we know is possible.
I don’t think it’s Moiraine. She has his trust why would she want his bond.
Also, Alanna having his bond has been kept rather secret…Rand told the three who bonded him..Cadsuana and company know..do any of the Chosen even know she has his bond? I don’t think that Egwene knows so why would she ask. Verin although BA was on Rand’s side so I doubt if she told any DF or Chosen. Of course we don’t know what has happened from ToM to this line in AMoL.
As for the cover of AMol…looks like [color=#0000cd”>Moiraine and
i’m going with moraine saying it to alanna, but as others have said, it could be a bunch of people talking to alanna (cyndane, baddies). i’d be more inclined to think a black sister saying it to alanna since bonding is a thing ‘of this age’, though of coruse the forsaken could learn how to do it….
on a bad ass note, maybe it could be pevara saying it to a 13x13ed red sister who has a not 13x13ed ashaman bonded to her….unleash that whupass, pevara!!
Mother’s Milk in a Cup!
Lost part of my post!
As for the cover of AMol…looks like Moiraine and Nyneave to me…a blue and a yellow.
Thank’s Tor…this is Bloody wicked fun…makes the days go quicker. (Sort of)
qbe_64 @251 – It’s both. Yes, the new sword Rand is carrying is Brandon’s cameo – the sword he was given from RJ’s collection – and it is Justice. (I haven’t heard him say it, but my best guess is that Rand was scheduled by RJ to obtain Justice, and Brandon chose to describe it like the one he got. I don’t think they would put in something that “obviously” significant without it being in the notes, but since it hasn’t been described anywhere else in detail, it worked to make it Brandon’s sword.)
moondivatx @273 – Yes, it’s pretty well confirmed that the cover is Moiraine and Nynaeve with Rand.
As for today’s memory… Well, the obvious would be someone demanding that Alanna pass Rand’s bond to her. If it’s not that, it’s completely up for grabs. The idea of someone (either the bonder or the bonded) dying, and someone asking for the bond to protect the other is pretty plausible, IMO.
If it is Alanna’s bond on Rand, I don’t for a second believe the idea of Elayne or Aviendha speaking; they would simply require her to release the bond, not pass it. Cadsuane already had the opportunity to take it, and refused. It could be Moiraine or Nynaeve, but I don’t think it’s likely. Egwene is more likely; so ::shudder:: is Cyndane or Graendal. Or Moghedien. It could even be Elayne to Egwene, if Egwene is dying and they don’t want Gawyn to bite it too. The suggestion that it might be a Wise One is also possible, if less likely.
My best guess would be Egwene to Alanna, or someone we don’t know/care about much just yet.
Thanks Rancho Unicorno! That explains a lot indeed
Thanks Linzaroon! You’re Dutch is as good as my English, you got the words alright :)
Missbee @250
Thanks…occassionally a gopher finds a nugget. We will know soon enough if it’s gold or granite. That said, I hope I am wrong because I fear the passing of a bond would be the focus in the story for key/important characters only and I don’t want to see any of them dying.
And based on Wetlander’s post @274, I want to say great minds think alike, but her knowledge and acument are much greater than mine so I will be content with being on the same possible page.
My first thought was that it’s Lanfear to one of Rand’s girls..but I hadn’t thought of Alanna…
Moiraine to Alanna.
What would happen if Moiraine took up Lan’s bond again just temporarily? Would his crazy death wish/wanting to die/depression go away because the bond was no longer broken? That item hasn’t really been brought up since ACOS if I remember correctly, but if it’s still an issue, perhaps this is a solution? …or I could be way off base…I guess we’ll have to wait and see! Just 5 weeks and change left! :)
Couldn’t #3 be Thom speaking? He and Moiraine did the deed and he is rather “fond” of being married?
I think it is Alivia to Alanna. She needs the bond as a part of “helping him die.”
here is a thought, a seanchen prophecy says that Rand will bow before the crystal throne, what if this is Tuon to Alanna. Rand in a move to secure the seanchen as allies so as to stop their nipping at his ankles takes Alanna and goes to Tuon and uses her bond with him as his ace in the hole. He gets the deal close to where he wants it then throws out his bond to close the deal. He neals and Tuon tells Alanna
“Pass his bond to me.”
hmm. @@@@@ 282, that is quite interesting. There is also part of the Prophecies of the Dragon, if memory serves me, that says he will “bind the nine moons to him”
I like the idea of it being Moraine or Cadsuanne. And I don’t think anyone sworn to the DL could stand to be bonded to Rand…..The Dark Friends in Maradon couldn’t stand to look on him, let along be bonded to him.
Now, maybe a Forsaken could handle it. ooh…I do not like the end of this book with Cyndane tempting Rand in his dreams. Cyndane to Alanna would be bad!! It would explain how she got inot Rands dreams though. Ug.
what if Elayne goes into labor and temporarily passes Rands bond to someone else so that he is not distracted in battle by the twins being born. This could also be a set up of some sort though as perhaps the person who suggests this and gets the bond wanted it all along for more sinister reasons.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the order of these “memories”? The first one seemed to come from the prologue for sure. I wonder if each memory is one from each chapter in order, or thereabouts? If this is the case, then passing Rand’s bond would be more likely to come later in the book probably. Unless it is a group of people discussing options and one of them pipes up with a ‘how about you pass his bond to me?’ type comment. I could see that happening earlier in the book. Of course, it’s probably too easy for the memories to be released in any kind of order. Wishful thinking on my part!
2nd thought is Gawyns bond depending which road hes on.
The more I think about it, Egwene to Alanna sounds plausible. Egwene should be pretty involved in the LB, and could benefit from knowing Rands’ emotions. She would want to know about his state of mind and stability. This could be a condition she states in Merilor, for going along with his scheme
It is interesting how Alanna disappeared quickly. Rand said she went north, and she is a borderlander, isn’t she? He should be able to know if she’s a DF, with his new DF detector powers.
I just don’t think a Darksider could handle being bonded to the Savior for the Light.
Sounds like Cadsuanne to me. Could be anybody though. The women who have Rand’s bond are all way to proud of that connection to give it up easily.
Here’s a thought……..mabey this is after Rand dies…..but the bond holders still feel that he is alive….not believing, Cadsuanne or a wise one demands the bond be transfered to her to see/feel for herself…….
How’s that for a guess WoT community!?
I haven’t read the previous comments, or kept track of Alanna, but I’m pretty sure she’s alive.
What if Alanna is with Rand and Tuon, and passes the bond to Tuon after Tuon accepts the Damane is a lie, (Thank you for that, Rod) because “She could not ally herself with such a creature”, wanted to make sure he was sane or not a threat, and provide a new foundation for the Seanchan?
Then again, I probably don’t know everything. People here are infinitly more experienced with this than I am. My thoughts are saplings are their trees…
And I look forward to rebirth of Dragonmount.
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills, I guess.
Moiraine to Nynaeve over Lan?
My guess; Lanfear to Alanna.
Maybe Nynaeve to one of the girls in order to some how heal Rand; or bring him back from the dead.
Galaja@286—The first one was not from the prologue. That was released for ebook about a month ago; it’s also not from chapter 1 or 2, which were both released for free online. I certainly wouldn’t count on any kind of order. Any quote could be from near the beginning, or from the very end.
i say its lanfear talking to alanna. that would be insanely awesome.
kabuang ko! oi! jejeje
Since we seem to have covered all the usual suspects, here is a wild theory for fun:
Suffa sees Mat in Ebou Dar and bonds him out of spite or for thinking she can use it as leverage; when it is discovered, Tuon instructs her to “pass his bond to me.”
This was just for fun, don’t beat me up over trivials; I know it isn’t 99% likely…
We have evidence from Semirhage torturing Cabrianna that in AoL there was no Warder bond. While the Forsaken are aware of it, it seems unlikely to me that they are aware of it’s intricacies, such as being able to pass a bond between channelers. That makes me feel, that while it would be cool to see Cyndane try and get Rand’s bond, it doesn’t really fit with what we know about what knowledge the Forsaken have. And who has or doesnt have what knowledge is a central theme of the whole series.
An odd thought occured to me. What if it is someone, not sure who, to Nyneave? If Lan survives Tarwin’s Gap, but is not at Shayol Ghul with her when she, Moiraine and Rand go do whatever it is they are going to do, she would worry that her death would doom Lan. Perhaps someone is offering to take that off her mind.
My first thought was that it was Moraine to Nyneave, temporarily rebonding Lan to effect a healing of any residual pain Lan may have had over having Moraine’s bond to him torn away after she fell into the doorway.
Cyndane to Alana is possilbe and very sinister.
My favorite personal conjecture is:
I wish this BBS had a spell check, please pardon any misspelt words.
I like the Moiraine to Alanna theory. Rand is going to go Bonkers crazy happy when he sees Moiraine alive. It will be the final restoration of Rand to youthful delight and sanity when the #1 person on his ‘women who died bc of me’ list returns. I can readily see Moiraine confronting Alanna on the bond issue, and Alanna going on in her usual way about how she often wished to be rid of the bond, once realizing it was of no use. Enter Moiraine with a turn of the wrist, “Pass his bond to me.” Also, Moiraine and Alanna are roughly of the same cohort in Aes Sedai world, and the only two characters we know of to have participated in bond tom-foolery besides Myrelle (also of their cohort, roughly.)
As for the other theories…
Although the language seems curt, it is still too civilized to be a darkie to Alanna. If they wanted to harm Rand, killing Alanna might be a more useful way to leverage the bond than attempting to compel him with it.
I like the anyone-to-Egwene idea for non-Rand bonds, but then we have a situation where Egwene is beyond the healing help of the channeler speaking to her, in which case she wouldn’t likely be able to channel enough to light a candle, let alone pass a bond. Not sure how that would work out…
Ooooh this is all so fun!
On #3, everybody is saying that Mat wouldn’t admit liking marriage. I don’t agree, he has matured in other areas, he certainly shifted his opinion of Tuon in many regards from his first meeting of her (did I ever think her too slim?…), so he could easily come to enjoy marriage. The reason it is not Mat is that he hasn’t had a second’s chance to enjoy marriage, so there’s no way he has formed such an opinion, and I don’t really see how he’s going to get that chance in AMoL, unless it’s a substantially forward-looking bit in an Epilogue. Even if he and Fortuona get time to spend together, she doesn’t trust him as a husband yet, and while there may be romantic-style activities, what they have will take some time before it can really be called what Mat would consider a marriage.
Loial was in Emond’s Field for Perrin’s wedding and for some time after. Perrin was not around in Tear when Perrin married Erith. Previously, Loial was always lamenting the prospect of being married, of being forced to “settle down”, and nobody suggested otherwise. So, he would naturally wonder why those he trusts, like Perrin, didn’t tell him that it would be a worthwhile thing.
LMunger @212
While it is the conventional wisdom that Moiraine’s pre-knowledge of who her husband would be (per her comment in the Stone of Tear) is from Min, it is not proven, only speculation. It makes more sense than other theories, since she knew it before visiting the Aelfinn or Rhuidean, and since future visions from the Accepted test can’t be known for truth.
wyshome @280
Thom hasn’t been in company with Perrin in quite some time. Perrin wouldn’t have had an opportunity to tell Thom about the pleasantries of married life, and why would Thom have expected him to do so?
Tek @288
I was opposed to the idea of it being Egwene, but here’s a scenario I could imagine. Everyone is gathered at Merrilor. Egwene and Rand face off. Each side has people prepared to argue in defense of their respective position. Egwene is adamant about not trusting Rand’s “grandiose scheme”, unless she knows his mind more fully. Rand tells her that he has too many other people in his head as it is, but then tells everyone to stand fast, uses the bond to locate Alanna, gates to her, brings her back, and explains how she bonded him without asking. The Amyrlin Seat surely has the authority to make this demand.
Cadsuane had the chance, and refuse to take it from Alanna. Moiraine asking for Rand’s bond could also make sense in preparation for the fight at Shayol Ghul with Rand and Nynaeve, but it doesn’t feel right to me.
Cyndane is still the most likely case, and the most fearful.
Dorman @293
Death destroys a Warder bond.
@@@@@ Free; What if Nyv gets there before he passes on?
@@@@@ Free; What if Nyv gets there before he passes on?
Wont do that again! Lol
While I love the menace of attributing this line to a Black/dreadlord demanding the link from Alanna, I want to suggest two other alternatives I’ve had knocking around in my head:
1/ Nyn demanding it from Alanna.
A/ She’s taken a bond from someone before, so she knows how it’s done.
B/ If she’s supposed to bring Rand back from the dead (one way or another) she’d probably like to know when he dies or how or if he gets “13’d” (as someone so niftily verbed it) so she can send in Alivia and co. to dispatch him.
C/ I tend to think Lan is doomed, so after something like losing him she’d think she’s strong enough to withstand a second death, especially if such a purpose will help her keep focus through to the end.
2/ Nyn from Elayne.
If B and C (above), then Nyn would likely do anything she can to insulate pregnant Elayne from feeling Rand die. She’ll have too much other stuff to do. Avienda can handle it.
So much of the talk has already mentioned shielding someone from an inevitable death through the bond. But of anybody, Rand is certainly the one most likely to die. So wouldn’t the reasoning work better in reverse?
Thanks!
couldnt be cyndane… she just ordered isam to kill Rand/LTT.
unless she wants to be sure the Rand/LTT really dies while bonded him/them. unusual way to make sure they really died..
@263 – I think the Crystal Throne is a ter’angreal, based on how it’s described as inspiring feelings of loyalty, humility, etc. Can a ter’angreal also be a sa’angreal?
On Day 4, I think it’s probably Moiraine talking to Alanna. I don’t think Elayne would need another bond to Rand. Maybe Galad gets bonded and Egwene demands the bond? Or Elayne?
For day 4 it could be Elayne to Alanna because she seems to be the jealous type and would not want to share Rand with anyone but her 2 other “sisters”
@Freelancer: Perrin, Thom, and Matt met and visited before Matt and Thom went to the tower for Moiraine. If Thom and Moiraine got married before they see Perrin again, the quote could be coming from Thom.
dklucier @308
Elayne is already bonded to Rand. She would want Alanna to remove it, not pass it.
wyshome @309
That doesn’t justify the quote. There is no reason for Thom, who is nearly three times Perrin’s age and been around the block more than once, to speak as though Perrin should have offered him wisdom on married life. Thom is loathe to admit a lack of understanding of any subject, especially in comparison to one so much his junior. The quote definitely fits Loial. He sees himself as relative peers of the Emond’s Field ta’veren trio, in terms of being young. And since Perrin is the one he spent the most time with, the only one who has been married more than a couple of weeks, it makes sense.
Im right on the edge something here. Any idea what would be felt in the warder/wife bonds if one entered T’A’R physically and the other stayed in the Waking World? Would the sense of that person still be there? If they stood in the same place where they would be side-by-side in the real world, would they still feel if they were side-by-side? My head is starting to hurt, so I could use some help.
Free@301: I agree….Egwene to Alanna is very plausible….see@288.
Cyndane is a very frightful thought, but I wouldn’t put it past her, Ms. Devious and Spurned. My only question is this….Could a DF or Forsaken stand to be bonded to the Savior for the Light? What is your opinion?
@311 No they would not sense being side-by-side. But death would will break the bond.
This has been foreshadowed (“he will be mine”) – Aviendha to Alanna .
Do you all forget that rand has unknowingly at the time tapped into the true power from the dark one? When rand was held in the male adham the collar and bracelets he was able to tap into the dark power and destroy them. Perhaps thats what he used at Maradon
gfireemt@315:
I don’t think the DO would allow Rand to use the True Power on his own Army of Darkness, trollocs and Fades. That would be, um, counter productive to the DO’s cause.
Also, I don’t think Rand would be as kind and Zenlike afterwards. In fact, I think he’d be very adversely affected. No. Don’t think so.
Samadai, I believe that quote came from The Shadow Rising, during the early chapters, when Lanfear was talking to Rand in the Stone, before the Trolloc raid. I don’t necessarily think the quote meant both Choedan Kal. A channeler, even one from an Age where linking was known, fully explored, and utterly mastered, a channeler would not necessarily refer to objects of the Power as one the other gender could use if it required linking. I would not be surprised if the other male sa’angreal were the sword Rand found, the one that “represented the future”. I also think that is the sword Justice. “…let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.” The sword from that quote.
I think the quote refers to Alanna passing the bond to Alivia. She will “help him die” remember? Alanna would not be able to hide the knowledge of Rand being still alive after he fakes his death. Besides, if the circle Rand forms must require strong women, it would be Nynaeve and Alivia, the two women he could trust the most without risking those he loved.
@214 – Avi is already bonded to Rand, in Winter’s Heart, chapter 12, the scene where Elayne, Avi, and Min all are bonded to Rand, and then Elayne gets some “Nuli” nookie.
doggone it, I meant @314, Lurking.
gfireemt@315:
What Tektonica @316 said, plus the fact that an Asha’man (Naeff) on site could see Rand’s weaves; per RJ, no one (except the DO) can detect True Power weaves.
I like the theory of
LanfearCyndane to Alanna. Alivia, Cads, Nyn or Moi also feasible…if it is Rand’s bond we’re talking about.But as someone pointed out, it could be the bond of someone else, say an asha’man (either because too powerful or because his AS is dying) – so my loony theory would be….
Jahar Narishma (who we know is (a) powerful and (b) likely to be important ‘he who follows after’). Maybe Merise is wounded to the death and Cads takes the bond from her (she has mused in the past something to the effect of ‘maybe it was time to take another warder’)?
~lakesidey
Does anybody remember the sword “he had taken to wearing” in the Gathering Storm, which “fit him perfectly”???
up2stuff @@@@@ 311
I was wandering the very same thing elsewhere yesterday. In the end I decided to assume the answer is no, but I don’t think it’s ever been addressed.
Could Cyndanne hide if she had the bond? by masking? In TAR? In a dreamshard? A parallel world? And, what would be the effect on the Rand/Moridin link?
Cyndanne holding Rand’s bond could be a complete game-changer
Tektonica @@@@@ 312
What if she could sense how Rand feels about Mierin in that dream? (apart from the desire bit)
It could fit well with Cyndanne being ‘punished the most’. Forced (by Moridin) to take the bond, only to be scorned all over again, to feel the full force of it in her mind and not be able to do anything about it.
Would it drive her to hate Rand?
Or make her turn to the Light? (hope not)
Lurking @@@@@314
If we’re talking of foreshadowing, how about – “Tend him well for me until I come for him” (Lanfear to Min, TGH 48)
Yeah, it does make your head hurt, maybe I should stick to the random Warder theory…
orionrav @@@@@323
I think you’re referring to Justice (as per some of the comments above)
Still catching up on the comments since the 4th mail was the first one I got.
“I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?”
That is obviously Marco Polo and his father. Jain Farstrider is the Marco Polo of WoT. It must be either Jain (maybe called back by the Horn?) or his son. Is Jain’s father ever mentioned?
What really riles me about these ‘memories of light’ is that they mean that some lucky chap has had the chance to read the entire book months ahead of time! No fair!
Plus, I noticed January 8 is a Tuesday! That’s not playing fair :(
I’ve registered, re-registered, and RE-RE-registered, and I’m STILL not getting the emails. :(
What can I do about this? I’ve waited long enough for this book, I really don’t want to start getting the emails on January 7th or something.
TruOtter
See comment 98, and send an email to Irene.
@327 TruOtter: email irene.gallo@tor.com and ask to be put on the distribution list. Send your Tor ID to her as well.
@326. Actually, several people have, there’s even a spoiler free review/commentary from Jason Denzel on this site. As for this though, it could just be coming straight from team Jordan, and of course they’ve read the book.
@326
Heh, our production manager (a WoT fan) collated them for us. But in turn we had to lock him in the basement with no communications and nothing but rocket fuel to eat. He seemed to think it was a fair trade.
As for Tuesday, all books are released on Tuesdays. But now that you mention it, it’s one of those things I’ve always known without asking why. I assumed it was a shipping issue. I’ll see if there is more to it than that.
@willsilverwood —————————- My favorite personal conjecture is:
I wish this BBS had a spell check, please pardon any misspelt words.
————————–
It did make me laugh though, with the thought of Rand fighting the dark one with a selection of kitchen utensils!! :) Think you meant callandor…
#3 Is ‘obviously’ Loial to Perrin after they meet up again at Merrilor. I would imagine he follows Rand there from his south coast hidey hole so he can work on his book. Loial hadn’t seen Perrin since Carhein when they parted ways with Loian/Karldin visiting the stedding & Perrin dealing with the Shaido & Maseema. Tey spent lots of time before that at the two rivers so they know each other well and Loial always had a comment of his & Faile’s (eurgh!) marriage.
Thies are suposed to be “memories” so I will be disipointed if this is refering to something we have yet to read.
#4 I’ll go with Alanna & a.n.other. Probably Moiraine as part of the bit where Min views that Rand can’t win without the help of someone who’s died i.e. Moiraine in bk6.
@334 They all are… They’re essentially snippets from AMoL where we have to guess what the context is.
I’m guessing this is someone speaking to Alanna. Moiraine, perhaps, or even Alivia.
First memory.
Rand at Maradon with a unkown Angreal
Second Memory
Egwene talking Egeanin, remeber the dram of her bieng saved by a Seachan bearing a sword on her back. Egeanin is from a family of sailors for the Empire. Her mother was a sort of admiral and her father was also a seamen.
Third Memory
Loail
Fourth Memory
Best to think that it would be Alivia talking to Alanna. She will be helping him to dei.
@332 and @274. When did it get confirmed that Moiraine would be the 3rd with Nynaeve and Rand on the cover? I thought Rand had decided to take Nynaeve and Alivia, but Moiraine makes sense.
Idabomb333 @339:
Go to the Memory of Light cover thread http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/05/michael-whelans-cover-for-a-memory-of-light-revealed. It’s discussed in great detail and confirmed that Nynaeve and Moiraine are on the cover.
Day 5 :
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
ARGGGGG!!!
…I’m just so…impatient…
Wow…
I imagine it’s Egwene to Mat, but does Tuon bite it? I thought we knew that she survived because of RJ’s plan to do followup novels in Seanchan with Mat and her…
Here it is folks:
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
Maybe Mat talking with Suffa?
Mat and someone…Egwene maybe…after a meeting with Tuon and Rand?
this one i don’t really know… maybe Selucia?
for the 4th i’d like (and fear) to see Cyndane talking to Alanna! Would cause some troubles having lanfear hold the bond!
I’d go with Egwene and Mat here….
I feel like memory 5 is about the fallout of everyone finding out about damane and sul’dam…
@339 Idabomb333: He may have decided that….but he doesn’t yet know that Moiraine is alive. When he does, he might well change his mind as he trusts her more than almost anyone….and with her angreal she is still pretty powerful (though she could lend it to, I dunno, Aviendha or Alivia and they’d be still more powerful)
As for day 5: could it be Moiraine? We do know she’s with Mat currently…perhaps they come back to Caemlyn and find it on fire…that would call for a “Creator shelter us” I guess.
~lakesidey
Memory 4
Cat- has already said she dose not want Rands bond but could have changed her mind.
There are a number of people who could use Rands bond against him, but he has proven stronger of will than that when Alanna first tryed to compel him shortly after bonding him. If it is Cyndane I am sure she will be in for the shock of her life when she tryes to tell him what to do .. Heck I would pay to see that lol
Could be a random Asidi talking to a wonded Asidi and not wanting the warder to go mad.
Moraine knew that Lan would go to Nanieve, she help facilitat that, I dont think she would change that.. and I hope to see her bond Thom
My first thought is that Matt is talking to Egwene or one of the other Super Girls.
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL line of cannons!
I’m going with Matt to Moraine
@352 true, the dragons would be pretty awesome too
#5 – Could be Matt to any Seanchen, referring to the fact that all Suldam can channel.
I think it’s Moiraine at the moment she sees what’s gathered at Merrilor. Mat’s comment back is what reminds him again to wonder what his wife is up to.
So day 5….Based on his use of Tuon (not Fortuona) I would conjecture he is speaking with one of the main female characters excluding Birgitte (she would have thrown a bloody or flaming in there somewhere) and Aviendha (she would not speak that way). I would also likely eliminate Cadsuane from this discussion. Therefore, Elayne, Egwene, Nyn, Moiraine. I could also be Satelle Anan…she knew Tuon as Tuon during the time they travelled. I suppose that also means it could be one of the other two Aes Sedai they travelled with.
However, the purpose of the statement has me thinking it is a reaction to something that Tuon has seen and had a chance to communicate to Mat. Does anyone recall her stating anything like this previously? I don’t (and could be wrong) but if I am correct I think this means Mat and Tuon have a reunion early on in AMOL.
i’m not sure who mat is speaking to, but his comment makes it sound like it’s something tuon (fortuona) commented on specifically also. so it must be after mat and tuon’s reunion. i’m going to guess something considering the opening of the last battle — maybe mat brings tuon the news that it’s began, and she makes the “Creator shelter us” line.
it does sound like a moiraine line though.
Memory #5 is the first boring one. After the first four interesting memories I was wondering if they can keep that up. Guess not. Still, 4 out of 5 is pretty good.
Looks like something from the middle of the book after Mat has already met up with Tuon and delivered her and whoever he is speaking to at the moment some extremely dire news. Some bad news about Rand (like Rand dying) perhaps? Mat would know right away about that wherever he is.
But really, this could be anything.
I don’t think it’s Egwene because she does not need the Creator’s help for anything.
I like both Irish and Firemyst’s ideas.
Memory 5 – I think it would be someone that feels comfortable with Mat, and who Mat would feel comfortable with as well.
I don’t think its Suffa.
It doesn’t sound like Egwene; I read it as somewhat vulnerable (she’s whispering it to Mat) and I don’t see Egwene being vulnerable with any of our Superboys.
I doubt its Elayne; she and Mat have developed more of a relationship in ToM, but it doesn’t sound like how a Queen would speak to her subject.
Maybe Nynaeve? Or Setalle Anan. Or even Joline in a moment of vulnerability?
@348 – I do like that possibility, but then I would propose that Mat was speaking with another Seanchan; I can’t see a non-Seanchan asking the Creator to shelter them from that news (like Irish OMalley@355 said).
Mat and Moiraine, has to be.
After reading the chapter preview we got, I can’t wait to see Mat go back to get his woman. LOL! When he found out from that tavernman that Tuon is on an assassin’s hit list, he got so “deadly”! Hope there is improvement in the protrayal of Mat in the final book. His character was the one Sanderson didn’t quite get.
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
I think context is very important here. Tuon may have said it upon the realization of how counter productive it would be to capture all the Aes Sedai of the White Tower on the day before the Last Battle. Probably no where near enough Suldam to control them all.
Egwene may have said it to Mat when he informs her the Seanchen are on the way to join the forces of light against the Dark One. Tuon may have requested Mat set up a truce between the Aes Sedai and other “Marath domane” and the “Ever Victorious Army.”
Really? Really?! We’re getting a “That’s What She Said.” moment from Mat in TWOT. Really? God, that is almost cringe worthy.
This has to be Mat delivering some piece of news that gets a “Creator shelter us” reaction out of both Tuon and whoever is in the quote. So it can’t be the suldam channeling thing (Tuon knows already). It likely has to do with Tarmon Gaidon, or the Dragons (I doubt it), or the Dragon Reborn. It might be about the Way Gates.
I think it’s one of the two suldams Mat sent to the White Tower.
I agree with @361. However, not only are Mat and the other speaker familiar with each other, I think it’s clear they are both familiar with Tuon. The way Mat says his line makes me think he may be underlining an unlikely similarity between Tuon and the other speaker.
So I think this is Mat speaking with either Leilwin or Aludra somewhere near the begining of the Last Battle.
my first thought for day 5 was mat talking to an assassin where tuon is the target. step 1, mat uncovers the plot; step 2, he tells tuon who says this; step 3, he confronts the assassins, who also say this.
also, i like the thought that it is mat to egwene, the supreme anti-seanchan.
Another possibility:
Tuon sees Mat with an empty eye socket for the first time and utters “Creator shelter us.”
Someone else sees Mat with an empty eye socket for the first time and does the same.
Mat scowls because he’s getting tired of people responding to the missing eye that way.
In that scenario, I would propose: Setalle Anan, Joline, Nynaeve, Min, Aludra, Bethamin/Seta, maybe Elayne, and then, possibly in this case although still unlikely, Egwene (it’s still a stretch because I wouldn’t see her respond in a vulnerable way, but moreso in an angry or chiding way; still she may drop her guard down in a moment of shock and concern.
I see this one as Mat to Egwene. The significance of the quote is the parallel in thinking and unity between the Amyrlin Seat and the Seanchan Empress, two forces that under any other circumstances would be diametrically opposed.
KiManiak
This was my first reaction too. I think this is a mock-irritated reaction from Mat when yet another person throws a hissy fit when they see his face. I can see this becoming almost comic as the same scene plays out several times over as each new person sees him for the first time since Ghenjei.
@370 – That makes sense, but I just don’t see Egwene being so intimated/impressed by anything. She has mastered the Aes Sedai calm exterior.
Also seems to be more serious in tone than just a reaction to Mat’s mutilation. Seems more on the scale of people realizing the true meaning of a mysterious prophecy or something.
I think this may have to do with some Seanchan prophecy about a one eyed raven and the wolf king. Everytime a Seanchan sees the one eyed prince of ravens, they say this phrase, and Mat is prolly pretty sick of it.
Re: Memory #4
I had a brief thought that it could be Moiraine to Nyneave. I mean, she’s back in business now and wants her original warder returned. But then I think I saw mention of her intent to bond Thom, so that seems less likely.
But still, food for thought.
D3 has to be Loial. I don’t think anyone else who would be talking to Perrin would talk in that way. It just fits Loial’s speech patters too well. Plus, he was very nervous about getting married and thinking he’d be forced to settle down.
D5 … Not the foggiest clue.
I seem to remember that Tuon has already said “Creator shelteer us” because it gave me chills that even Tuon was scared/impressed by events. I thought maybe it was in the Shiotan ghost village scene (KoD chapter 10), but checked and couldn’t find it. Does anybody remember a scene where Tuon was scared and still in Mat’s company?
This line could be comic relief and not something ominous. It very well could be Mat getting sassy about someone’s comment about his eye. This book can’t be all seriousness…..can it?
Just noticed that Mat is now a “one-eyed jack”.
Wild card?
Tuon has never uttered the words “Creator shelter us” to date. So, as many have already proposed, this quote must take place after a reunion between her and Mat.
I like the idea of this being more of a joking comment, maybe to do with his missing eye. After all, Tuon and Mat have always been the comic relief, and I have a feeling it will be much needed in this final book.
I wouldn’t be able to find that exact line from Tuon, but it stands to reason that she said it either a) earlier than where this quote is in AMoL itself, or b) in an earlier book.
I just don’t see that statement coming from his eye. She says “Creator shelter us” emphasis on the US…I could see perhaps a empathic type of comment, but this is more of an OH WOW kind of thing in my mind. It seems to me like it’s someone in awe of something. Tuon already knows about Sul’dam being able to channel, so that can’t be it, they probably wouldn’t even let Tuon know that the Dragons exist…so that’s more than likely out…not sure…not enough info to really have a good idea of what is being discussed
Why is everyone worring about Lanfear getting the bond from Alanna? Remember she has to be ABLE to control Rand and we all know that the bond if far from 100% control (See Lan and Myrelle, Perrin’s Wolfbrother whom I can’t name and his AS). If memory serves I think Alanna tried to compel him after she forced the bond and he smacked her and Verin into a wall.
Even Semi with the dominion bands which should have had 100% control couldn’t hold him.
I’m thinking Nye getting it from Alanna prior to SG so she can help him through the fight with Rand knowing.
Edit* If Egwene has Alanna pass the bond without Rand knowing I better hear a lot of Egwene lovers here admitting she really is a power hungry AS. Bonding without permission is like rape to the AS, passing the bond would be the same and unless Egwene really was compelled by the ‘Gar or distorted by Fain in TGH there is no amount of justification she could use, ie knowing the battle, Rand’s health, etc. etc. that would make her any less of a rapist. Plus I think even Zen Rand would have a backsliding moment. I really don’t see her doing it though.
“Creator shelter us,” she whispered.
Mat scowled. “You know, that’s what Tuon said.”
–that has something to do to tuon/seanchan putting too much stock on omens and got that kind of reaction. maybe suffa got a fortelling concerning their Prince of the Ravens being blind on one eye. as for the second person to say it, could be one of the band soldiers. Aludra maybe…
day 3 – Freelancer @310:
“There is no reason for Thom, who is nearly three times Perrin’s age”
I agree with every part of the argument, Loial sees the boys as peers, but still he is 90 years old – some irony there.
day 4 – I don’t want it to be Cyndane and aside from the argument given by Tek @288 I can’t think of a reason why a Light-side character would demand Rand’s bond, as opposed to demand her release him. Therefore another (not serious) theory:
Morgase demands Thom from Moirane – (who will decline)
Of course it doesn’t fit Morgase’ minimal power and that I know she moved on and is happy with Tallanvor.
day 5: The “shelter us” doesn’t fit it being about Mat’s eye.
359.heridfan I don’t see this one as boring, or worth most of your post being spent not liking it. No offense, just disagreeing.=)
The scowl is what throws me off here…what would get a reaction such as “Creator shelter us” from a person who knows who Tuon is, and in doing so irritate Mat?
Figure out the topic and you will figure out who he is talking to…
Mat’s scowling brings up an intersting thought – this might be something that Mat wants to down-play, but that he sees everyone else “over”reacting to. This has happened with his characer a lot throughout the books =)
One good candidate would be his trip to the Finns. He wouldn’t want to make much of a fuss over it, but that tale would easily elicit a “creator shelter us” from any of his friends, as well as from Tuon.
I read the scowl to mean that he was surprised to hear whoever he is speaking to agreeing with Tuon’s views. He does consider her society with their omens and customs to be pretty loopy so is used to her thinking in different ways to most people he knows. Kind of a ‘But that’s what she said, I never thought I’d hear the same from you’ kind of thing.
I don’t think it could be the Finns, not unless he is VERY convincing in his storytelling. Last time he tried to tell her about them she laughed at his ‘superstition’. I can’t see that changing without some evidence for her to see beyond his obvious mutilation.
It’s possible he feels everyone is over-reacting to something. A classic ‘Don’t start – I just had that from the Mrs!’
To be honest you never know with Mat, he sometimes likes a good scowl just because! Remember the whole fancy coat debacle in the beginning of it all? Add in the frill/no frill drama and the I’m no Lord business and he’s most happy when he’s got something to rail against. I think that’s the thing I love most about him!
I agree with @380 and @386, but I think it could easily be a reaction to seeing the full measure of what they’re up against in the last battle and then learning that Mat is Lord Commander of the Light. This would still be a moment of relative levity in the face of an overwhelmingly bad situation, but Mat has shown this spirit time and again when faced with uncertain odds of survival.
Either that or it’s Mat telling someone his plan after telling Tuon already and hearing the same pessimistic reaction that he might actually be able to carry it out. He’s a realist, but shrewd. And crazy enough that his plan might just work…
Im going with Engeanin. Shelter is a naval term =Seachan.
Who Knows what those 2 will do in MOL
Since this is a spoilerific thread, I presume it’s safe to mention what else we’ve been given in pre-release tidbits. We know that Mat went back to Ebou Dar to visit his wife. Since, per Ideal Seek, Tuon hasn’t uttered the phrase “Creator shelter us” to this point in the story, it is likely that it happens at the upcoming meeting in Ebou Dar. That means that this conversation is well after Mat has delivered Moiraine to Merrilor, making her a less probable answer.
Next, the fact that Mat comments in a comparative way strongly suggests that it is the same subject over which this person utters that phrase as when Tuon did likewise. That may not help us decide who is with him, though it can help set some parameters.
But whomever Mat is conversing with during this Memory, an interesting thing to note is that he scowls. That means that whatever is being discussed, it disturbs him at least somewhat that the woman with whom he is speaking has the same reaction that Tuon had. What could that mean?
So, three parts to any attempt to solve this:
~ What is the topic of discussion, that it should cause that reaction from Tuon and another female known to Mat?
~ Who would recieve a new piece of information from Mat and have such a reaction?
~ Should we presume that Mat says Tuon’s name with the expectation of recognition, or that he’s just commenting on the similarity of reaction without expecting recognition on the part of the other conversant?
Many names, and many topics, might be eliminated via those thoughts. Tuon’s name would mean nothing to many people, even including Moiraine, and he would be unwise to name her in the familiar if speaking with, say, a Deathwatch Guard, Seeker, or other Seanchan noble.
willsilverwood @363
According to Renna in TGH ch40, there are always many more sul’dam than damane. Given that the estimations of ratio for those able to learn to channel vs those inborn with the spark, and that the Seanchan find every woman who is able to become a sul’dam, there is likely to be more than 10 times as many sul’dam as damane. That would be more than enough to collar the entire White Tower.
@381
Elyas
drewloves @385
Agreed. Get to why a Tuon-like reaction from this person perturbs Mat, and you’ll get close to who it is.
Memory #5 – might be Matt talking to Tuon- because after Tuon became the empress her name changed to Fortuona. In fact there was a whole chapter in A Gathering Storm called The Death of Tuon .. and I can see Tuon scolding Matt for not calling her by her rightful name, Fortuona and once she uttered the statement “Creator protect us” – Matt would respond sarcastically that is something Tuon would say….
first I would say to Freelancer. What would the deathwatch guard say? Mat is The Prince of Ravens. Mat calls her what her name is.
Spradlin you have something there.
I would say that it is problably one of Mats big schemes,He probably told Tuon first, hence her reaction. Then when he tells Egwene he gets the same reaction :-) That is why he scowls, he is tired of hearing how his plans ( schemes) wont work. I bet he will pull it off though, he always does.
@364 Tenesmus: Considering the context couldn’t possibily be similar to how that phrase is used in our everyday culture, it’s likely just a coincidence in a moment of humor and you’re reading too much into it.
@365 Lazlo: Entirely possible; there is a Waygate in Barashta after all (Ebou Dar), and after having been exposed to the Shadowspawn by Tylee’s revelation, Tuon would have had this reaction to being told these creatures could appear right in the middle of her home base in Randland. If Mat has taken Moiraine to Caemlyn and/or Merrilor before this then he would know about the Waygates being the weak point. The question then becomes who would he be telling about the Waygates? Everyone on the Lightside already knows about it if they’re at Merrilor when the Caemlyn refugees arrive. If this is what the quote is about, then I’d suggest it must be either Leilwin or one of the Aes Sedai Mat traveled with; since they were going to the White Tower, not Merrilor, they wouldn’t know about the Waygates. Or it could be Tylee herself learning about the Waygates.
However, I am guessing it is more likely to either be Egwene, Moiraine, or Leilwin in reaction to the start of the Last Battle or the death of Rand–because Egwene and Leilwin already know about the sul’dam (and for that matter so do the Aes Sedai who traveled with Mat, and Setalle), Tuon didn’t have this reaction to the sul’dam, and Egwene wouldn’t have had this reaction even if she hadn’t known. Tylee could react this way to the sul’dam, but again Tuon didn’t react like that. Personally I think the diction sounds more like Moiraine than anybody, which suggests if it isn’t her it must be another Aes Sedai. But it also sounds like something Leilwin or Tylee might say. And the idea of the Seanchan and Aes Sedai allying likely would prompt this response from Tuon and Egwene.
@381 Ashenladoka: You’re forgetting context. If Rand is dying/about to die, Egwene could ask Elayne to pass the bond to spare her the pain of his death, the same way Moiraine could ask that of Nynaeve re: Lan. Also, since Egwene knows the most about TAR among the Aes Sedai, and it’s been theorized TAR may have something to do with how Rand comes back to life, Egwene could ask for it in order to prevent his death, or to bring him back, although that wouldn’t explain the three days dead thing (unless that was a mythological red herring for us) or that Nynaeve was the one to have that thought and may possibly know Moghedien’s ripping out trick.
Anyway, I think it is more likely to be Nynaeve or Moiraine asking for it from Alanna, most likely with pressure from Egwene because of Alanna’s rule-breaking.
***
As for the other quotes…the Maradon one has to be Rand talking about the fat man angreal or another he has without anyone knowing it (which rules out both Justice and its scabbard, though admittedly not many know he has it and no one seems to know what it is other than an old sword). But it could also be an Asha’man who found the fat man.
Number two does sound like Pevara to Androl; beyond that, no clue. And number three has to be Loial.
I would like to say about day 4, If a darkside character got Rands bond , he would also know their inner feelings, would Cyndane want that? Unless she really did change back to light side. A Black ajah member could not handle it. So I believe it is one of the good people.
I really thought Egwene taking it from Alanna.
Ok. Whom he’s speaking to isn’t as important as the content.
“The Creator shelter us” insinuates that it effects a large populace, or everyone. Mat scowling let us know that Mat doesn’t particularly appreciate the expression. “You know” let’s me have the impression that Mat is reminiscing in an informal way, likely, with someone he knows and respects. “Tuon” let’s me know that the person he is speaking to traveled with Mat during his courtship of Tuon before she became Empress. My vote is Talmanse, the immortal, or Setalle, also slightly immortal.
What he’s speaking about is something monumental (concerns all), and I doubt its the dragons because of someone’s comment that Tuon has never said those words — and out of respect to Brandon Sanderson for being able to do his homework.
What I suggest is its a reaction to Mat’s interpretation of the Last Battle and its current balance. Mat is basically saying something alongs the lines of, “If Randland’s bloody forces meet’s the Dark One at [Tarmon’s Gap] then [Tar Valon] will be flanked and absolutely overrun. Seanchan damane are going to be needed to boister [Tar Valon]’s defenses.” Basically, a gambit envisioned by Mat and hardly refutable by his counterpart in this dialogue, or by Fortuona.
Alternatively, something simple, “Rand wields Justice.”
But most pointedly, Mat is being used at the tool to bring Randland and Seanchan together.
Seriously. Tor doesn’t let me use square brackets. Some of the missing place names are “Tarmon’s Gap” and “Tar Valon”. But these are just placeholders.
I would like to say about day 4, If a darkside character got Rands bond , he would also know their inner feelings, would Cyndane want that? Unless she really did change back to light side. A Black ajah member could not handle it. So I believe it is one of the good people.
I really thought Egwene taking it from Alanna.
Sorry, but it should be Tarwin’s Gap and Lan will stop them there.
I believe Mat is how Rand Binds the nine moons to him.
Tuon could be reacting to Rand breaking the seals.
If it is about a trolloc invasion of Ebou Dar, the second person reacting the same way could be Setalle. Her family left, but she must still know many people there.
Will there be quotes on Saturday and Sunday as well?
ChaosBlack @@@@@ 401
Over at Theoryland they think not.
I assume they’ve had official word on the subject.
@402
but they had said it would be daily on the, the… First page thingy… I guess we just wait and see…
@402: …not sure why they would say that.
Irene @404
Dare I hope… ?
Yay!
And thanks!
Will there be releases of new “memories” on the weekend?
Is Moriane still bound by the 3 oaths? We know the warder bond was broken when she & Lanfear melted the door to ‘Finnland. Did the event also break the oaths?
Crazy theory time! Passing the bond is nynaeve to elayne, avi, and min. Here is why: nynaeve will arrive at tarwin’s gap to find a dying lan. He will be so far gone that she is only able to find a spark of life through the warder bond. She will follow it using her new talent for delving and “heal death” (probably after some other channeler has already said he is gone). Nynaeve will figure it was the combo of the bond and delving, and then use it to heal rand when he is as close to death.
day 6:
Galad in a Portal stone world?
“:The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment.”
Day 6:
The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had
it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on
a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had
prepared him, placed him here at this moment.
I think that answers the doubts? (Thanks Irene :)
~lakesidey
wjones42 @@@@@ 407
Interesting point.
I would assume that the oaths remain unaffected.
The way I understood it, the bond was severed because the two people involved were in two different worlds, where different laws of physics/time applied. The oaths apply to only one person/soul so they would survive.
But I’m speculating here and this is just my take on events.
And, I do like the idea of Moiraine not being bound by the oaths.
Galad is not long for Randland.
heridfan @@@@@ 409
What makes you think Portal stone world?
The streaks of light? I assumed he’s arrived at a battle.
I don’t know what Galad does, but it does sound like a suicide mission.
@missbee 414 Rand saw strange streaks in the sky while in a Portal stone world in TGH ch 15.
heridfan @@@@@ 416
Aah, I see. I remembered those as sort of vapour trails/clouds…
A quick re-read beckons.
Hope he’s not doing a “charge of the Light Brigade” thing into artillery which he wouldn’t be able to recognise. Guess it’s very likely a battle scene but who or what is generating the streaks of light? Would he have come far enough from the white cloak prejudices to fight along side Aes Sedai or Damane?
Galad is going to be the Dragon’s blood spilled at Shayol Ghul to save the world
I wonder if the streaks of light have something to do with the eclipse or whatever the “twice dawns the day” bit is about.
Perhaps he follows the light to get to the right place at the right time to reach Rand at some critical point.
(A bit like the three kings in fact!)
“Creator shelter us”- everyone seems to be assuming this denotes a reaction to some earth-shaking news or event. I don`t see it`s necessarily like that-we might say “heaven help us” over something quite trivial.
Anyway what counts isn`t the way we use language-it`s how the speaker does.
@419
That sounds very possible to me…
Two guesses…either Galad is getting married to Berelain or he is making a battle related decision.
One thought about the “streaks of light”. Could they be balefire seen from a distance?
The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment.
“Twice dawns the day?” Maybe he’s seeing the 2nd dawn and taking strenght from it to lead an attack. Galad is superstitious and seeing a sign of the last battle and taking it to mean something special for him would be in character.
The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment.
The first sentence made me think he was talking about Berelain, but the second sentence doesn’t seem to fit with that.
Could Galad be seeing/sensing Rand? Or, Rand in the distance fighting the DO? Or he’s headed for doomsday, because he’s seeing Balefire.
#missbee
The bond to Lan wasn’t broke when she went through the first entry door, so going to the different world with it’s different laws was not what caused the bond to break. Remember, another name of the Finn’s home is the “halls of the dead.” (Not got TOM in front of me, and can’t recall the exact quote) Maybe destroying the doorways made Moiraine “dead” to the world as far as the oaths were concerned. Maybe I should flesh this out a bit and post on Theoryland?
About #6, Galad always sides with Egwene’s, but he has agreed to take direction from Perrin. Egwene wants Galad her help her stop Rand from breaking the shields, but Perrin agrees with Rand. So Galad is torn between Egwene’s plea to Galad and his prior oath to take battle orders from Perrin.
Now recall that the sky opens above Rand to let in sunlight where he stands. But I predict that when he goes to Shayol Ghul with the army, that the strange sky there only allows “streaks of light” pointing towards or away from him. Galad will see this and realize Rand is good and should be allowed to break the remaining seals and thus switch his position from Egwene’s (who doesn’t want Rand to break the seals) to be in agreement with Rand & Perrin (who think the seals need to be broken “to first clear away the rubble”)
“creator shelter us could just be a result of Mat having told someone “im a respectable well behaved married man”
Galad could just be rethinking his decision to side with Aes sedai the streaks of light could be fireballs or what not
Min…saw that a man in white would break Ber. heart
Alsi Galalan got a letter f/Verin in ToM.
It would be ironic if Galad is the one to end up saving Rand, who wields the One Power, or Perrin, who he recently believed a darkfriend.
@419 Goodles: we know Rand and Galad are related by blood… Maybe you’re on the right track. Hmmmm…
If it is Galad shedding blood, could we perhaps see a fight between him and our favorite superfade?
wjones42 @@@@@ 426
Good point about the Finns.
Yet I can’t see how the doorway melting would sever the bond either. It’s not as if all exits had been destroyed. At that time the other doorway to Tear was still intact (we assume).
Something the Finns did? Was it the result of going through the doorway whilst channelling?
Meh, can’t think of a satisfactory answer.
I’m afraid I can’t remember a ‘halls of the dead’ reference either.
Guess I have more reading to do
wayne stewart @@@@@ 428
I’m with you on the “fireballs or what not”
Just don’t see the need to read more into it.
I’ve registered twice and I’m still not receiving AMOL emails.
Ragnes
See comment 98 and send an email to Irene.
Ragnes
See comment 98 and send an email to Irene.
Rand in my opinion already has the seanchan on his side though he does not know it. As Matis the emperor of seanchan by extention his loyalty lies with rand. I believe Mat will be the supreme comander for the side of light and by being emperor of seanchan he is already on Rands side. So the quote about Rand kneeling to the crystal throne doesn’t make sense. It was a false prophecy that was made to make the seanchan feel supreme by having the Dragon kneel before the empress.
iSpradlin @@@@@ 432
And I`m with you there, that would be awesome!
But which one would win? Galad doesn`t have to die, simply to be injured for the prophecy to be fulfilled. Or was it a Foretelling?
@437, i don’t believe that the Prince of Ravens has the same amount of power as Empress.
imo, mat is like the queen, where tuon is the king if you understand what i mean. or in other words it’s not a joint monarchy
Why does “streaks of light” in today’s Galad snippet remind me of how Egwene sees people’s dreams in Tel’aran’rhiod? Perhaps I’m just tired.
Re: not getting e-mails
I have a separate account for “JandSedai”, and forgot to check that one. I keep it separate from my spam-mail account. Also, some people may have signed up for Tor long ago, using an e-mail account that is no longer current. You can check on your profile which account is associated with that profile.
Sorry to be so late to the party, but it seems everyone has been having a good time! Gaidal Cain is not Olver, Rand’s sword is Justice, Nyneave and Moraine are on the cover; I guess it is good that we are getting new people to talk about the book!
I’ve spent too much time on FaceBook. I keep wanting to “like” comments with which I agree. Mat as a one-eyed jack/wildcard– LOL
#6 – I vote for Galad on a misguided charge into oblivion…
I’m with the theory about Galad spilling his blood…that makes sense…except for the whole thing of Alivia helping Rand die. One of my theories I’ve been pondering (note that I don’t follow all the theory blogs or anything) is that Padan Fain will basically be the Dark One…he has taken in all of the evils of the land…Mashadar, Machin Shin, powers from the dark one himself…IDK…I think that’s where this is going…but that has nothing to do with this particular “memory”. Galad vs Shaidar Haran?!!? I don’t think Galad would stand a chance…honestly. Shaidar Haran is basically the Hand of the Dark One…and from what we have seen, we can assume that he has some serious powers…Galad is as fine a swordsman as there is, but he would have to face whatever powers there are in the superfade…I don’t see it happenin
I vote for a new thread after each memory is released. I’m starting to find it hard to keep track and if someone throws in a late comment on memory 1, 2, or 3 at this point I just can’t be bothered back tracking through so many posts to work out what their point of difference is.
deebee @420:
Well, the cover of AMoL pretty clearly shows an eclipse going on, so it seems likely that it really is an eclipse that causes the “twice dawns the day.” I would not be at all surprised if this is Galad seeing the rays of the sun as it comes out of eclipse.
425.Tektonica
Actually, I think you’ve got it right. You see, Berelain has a set of daring tattoos. Very daring. :)
(Reposting because the first one got eaten by the spam filter)
@419 Goodles: I think you’re absolutely right. Seems those theorizing about that were correct! And it may even be that Verin’s letter had something to do with this, either telling him where to be and what to do, or telling him he was Rand’s half-brother so he’d know he was his blood and could be wounded or killed to fulfill the prophecy.
@432 iSpradlin: Put me down to watch that battle!
@433 missbee: I don’t think it has anything to do with the Tear doorway still existing. The channeling is likely what destroyed the door–and that is what severed the bond, the breaking of that particular connection between Randland and Finnland. With the way the natural and physical laws work there, the bond having to weave its way from the Tower of Ghenjei through the Tear doorway might not be something it could even do, or withstand.
@443 johnravens: What does Alivia have to do with it? Her helping Rand die is likely completely unconnected to what Galad is doing. As for him facing Haran, keep in mind we’ve only ever seen the Superfade using its amazing and unique powers on Black Ajah and Forsaken. We still don’t know if it has anything more than the usual tricks to use on a Lightsider, and we know Galad can fight a regular Fade just fine.
@439 Mat was the prince of ravens when Tuon was still Daughter of the nine moons, she was a princeses not the empress. She later became the Empress and changed her name, so its follows his title will also change from a prince to something else. He might not be called Emperor but he certainly will not be a prince anymore and as Tuon has witnessed his military leadershish first hand she will not have a problem placing him in comand of the Ever Victorious Army. Her dicision will go well with Rand and our other heroes as they will see one of ther own in a position of leadership of Seachans military. Bashere trusts Mats military abilities so do the Aiel and Andoran leadership has no problem with him so he will be the most likely person chosen to the position of supreme comander of the side of Light. I hope i am making sense and not rumbling about.
@448 Galad can handle a normal fade, but remember our superfade is not Ordinary. Any being that can scare the chosen and has powers over them is no one to mess with. It told the chosen that it spoke for the DO. and could make Gate ways. Any being that could make gate ways is not to be confronted by a mere human except for Mat. Mat has a way of being lucky to deal with things that should have killed him but he survives.
Galad seeing lights and charging to his doom….so that’s where we get the legend of “the charge of the light brigade”. Well played, Mr Jordan!
@439 caniguess: I agree….if Tuon = the queen, Mat is not the king, more like a Prince Consort.
Galad v/s Superfade – I think he might be able to pull it off. But maybe Gawyn (with his ‘rings of suicide’TM letting his ‘fade’ away) might be better equipped for that.
Not quite sequitur, does anyone else think the Seanchan bloodknives’ ring ter’angreal might be related to the Fade’s abilities to blend into shadows?
~lakesidey
@@@@@ 448 macster – When you put it like that (and since I’ve had a night’s sleep) it makes sense. I’m not 100% convinced about the bond not coping with different exits, but that is a moot point anyway.
Tuon thought of Mat as Prince of Ravens after she became Empress. If that isn’t an editing error his title didn’t change.
my take on moiraine-lan bond breaking is that moiraine just broke it herself to make everyone believe she was dead, so lan could eventually go to nyn.
Re: the breaking of Moiraine’s bond to Lan.
Moiraine had prepared for Lan’s bond going over to Myrelle after she was gone. Somewhere, I forgot where but probably in FoH, she even made a comment about it to Lan.
As I see it, she triggered passing the bond to Myrelle around the moment she hit Lanfear and fell through the door.
As for the Galad quote, the ‘his blood on the slopes of Shayol Ghul’ prophecy came to mind, but how would Galad get there? SG isn’t exactly right behind Tarwin’s Gap…
So I really have no idea there…
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
Well, I can’t blame him for being aghast.
@450 jannat: Not ordinary, no, but again, most of those powers Haran has he has only used against Black Ajah and Forsaken. We don’t know if any will work against Lightsiders. Anyway, the fact Galad may not have a chance against Haran is kind of the point, since I am rather sure (especially with the Charge of the Light Brigade reference) that Galad won’t survive the Last Battle.
@451 lakesidey: They are similar, but Aginor and Semirhage said the ability came somehow from the process of the Trolloc creation followed by the twisting when the throwback to human stock happened. It would seem odd for a ter’angreal to be able to duplicate that effect–something that came about only by chance through genetics and the Dark One’s touch. Are there any Shadow angreal? Not that we’ve ever seen. If the ability can’t be understood, wouldn’t that mean it also can’t be duplicated? Would it have been invented as a specific counter to Fades, before they were eliminated from Seanchan? I’m trying to figure out if being able to become invisible in the same medium that allows Fades to fast-travel would be a secret weapon or a suicidal ability. Still, I suppose Gawyn could use them, either as a heroic sacrifice to save Rand or to protect Egwene if for some reason Haran threatened her.
Today’s Memory:
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
This is…rather opaque. Is it being brought up because of the Shadowspawn traveling the Ways, that only by going into them can the gates be sealed? Or would they somehow be necessary during the Last Battle as a counter to the Shadowspawn, getting the Light’s armies in position? Either way it would seem this is part of Loial’s role, since even Lews Therin Rand wouldn’t know how to read the Guidings I don’t think.
@444. galaja — I agree and mentioned it earlier. While one or two agreed, there were like 4 people or so that said they liked the flow of a conversation where all the memories for a week were on one forumn discussion thread. To me it makes it harder to read about a particular memory and peoples thoughts on it, having to sift through all the posts for comments related to it.
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
The aghast part makes me think he’s being ordered to use the Ways to get somewhere. The question I would have is Why? With the channelers around why not gateways? They’d be safer and more efficient than the Ways. What need could drive Gandalf to the Mines of Moria, eh, Rand to the gateways?
Memory 7:
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
to King Alsalam who said that while stuck in deepest winter with his Aes Sedai minders that they had attempted to use waygates to get to Tar Valon.
Nobody travels the ways. Ituralde is either referring to the news of shadowspawn in the ways, or Loial has brought the ogier through the ways to wherever ituralde is. Aghast seems to indicate concern for the person’s well being, so it’s probably a lightsider.
Birgit@453—At least you tried. ;) (I find that prettying up the font sometimes helps, bolding names and whatnot…)
Nobody travels the ways-unless there`s a dreamspike preventing Travelling…?
I think that it is Ituralde’s response to being asked to go with Loial as his guide through the ways for strategic reasons. Surprise and unexpected speed to arrive with his men where he needs to be.
I don’t think he could bring a large force with him, but enough to get the job he’s assigned done.
Sorry to post something unrelated to the Memories of Light, but a question suddenly popped in my head last night.
Do we know anything about the man who helped Lanfear (Mieran at the time) create the bore? It seems striking that she would figure so prominently in the series, and he’s barely mentioned.
Why does this have to be Loial? Moraine has used the ways before, and she may not be strong enough to make a gateway now, or know how, which may necessitate a trip through the ways.
For all we know Ituralde might have just been swapping war stories with Perrin.
#7 – rash of dreamspikes all of a sudden?
“Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
It could be Ituralde was reacting to Loial’s (and perhaps an army of Ogier) sudden appearance at Merilor? or a Battle? Loial can’t Travel, so if he doesn’t have any AS with him, it would be the fastest way for him to get back to Rand and into the action. I’m assuming it would be Loial, as he can read the postings in the Ways, and we’ve seen him in there before.
@466 He commited suicide when he couldn’t escape the notoriety, everyone knew who he was, what he had done.
@470 I like that idea, using the ways for battle requires too many other factors.
@466 – IIRC, his name was Beidomon or something like that, and we have not and will not see him anywhere else in the story. There used to be some theories that he changed his name and became Ishy or one of the other male forsaken, but I think that was poo-pooed by Jordan in a Q & A.
I like the idea of Rand wanting Ituralde to sneek in the back way to save Camlyn from the Trollocs who have taken over. That is why he wants him to use the ways. Block up the ways from behind and then return. Rand will just say that he has used the ways before, could even have Loial as a guide.
@473
That sounds really plausible to me. If anyone is going to go off and save Caemlyn, it’d be Ituralde.
@@@@@ 473 I like it!!!
lakesidy – the light brigade was so called because it was lightly armored – or not armored at all. You could be right about a play on words, but I think it is a bit thin, especially as the light brigade didn’t charge due to honour, but due to the stupidity of a senior officer. Galad, on the other hand, is a very bright officer, and smart enough to realize things are not as absolutely light and dark as he once thought.
I don’t think Galad has a suicide wish. He has taken some real risks for what he believes in, but he hasn’t ever abandoned common sense to make a dramatic gesture – that is more Gawayn’s style.
Caemlyn probably isn’t the only place in the south shadowspawn reach through the Ways because they can’t Travel. Maybe Rand sends Ituralde into the Ways to hunt trollocs there before they can come out and attack other places.
@476 linzaroon: I know :) But puns and plays on words are almost my stock-in-trade…definitely was not a serious theory as the Crimean War was very definitely not a myth (and most of RJs subtle pointers are to myths – barring the Mosk/Merk/Anla/mercedes bits in the early books.)
About the latest memory, I wonder if poor Rodel might not be being sent to take the
Guns of NavaroneBlack Tower? Since there is no Traveling there – maybe Naeff came back and reported and Rand, being busy with the small matter of TG, sends him and Logain to kick some BT butt, along with Ituralde to handle any non-channeling emergencies….(and Loial, perhaps, to show them the Way).OK I think I am overthinking this ;)
~lakesidey
anyone have a link to where RJ mentioned the light brigade? I feel like I have seen it before but cannot find it.
I am thinking that perhaps the Ogier, Ituralde, and the remaining Dragons end up in The Ways hunting Shadowspawn. Ogier and Dragons would be a good mix due to their size and strength.
I doubt the Light sends anyone into the Ways to hunt. Machin Shin should discourage anyone of that. Only Fain is safe in the ways, and the Dark Side doesn’t care if they lose some Trollocs and Fades, so they send them in too. Everyone on the Light Side and the Forsaken as well have Travelling and shouldn’t use the Ways unless they absolutely have to (and I doubt there is a Way Gate inside the Black Tower).
My guess for day 7 is that they need to get an army close to the Black Tower (the only place we know for sure has a dreamspike in the proximity after Perrin destroyed the other). So, I think Rand having Ituralde travel by Ways to near the Black Tower is as plausible a scenario as any. And kudos to Lazlo at 481…just saw you typed a BT reference.
Looking forward to day 8 and another thread!
Well, so far my take on all of these “memories”:
Lanfear alrady has Rand’s bond at the end of Book 13 ToM. That is how she infiltrates his dreams. We get a flashback in the next book that will show the scene from Lanfear’s side (my theory).
Alivia is the only female that can match Lanfear in power and skill. Lanfear may have a few more elegant tricks, but Alivia has more combat experience and is older (by about 100 years of concious experience). Alivia kills Lanfear, thus sending Rand into a bezerker rage, and helping him die.
Still sticking with the King Arthur reference about the scabbard of “Justice” being what no one realizes he has. The Scabbard was submerged in the water for 1000 years, and was just fine? It is power wrought, which dates it to the AoL, and the only one wore the Dragon sigil was LTT. LTT has all the toys. It isn’t a SA but rather a Well. Jordan mentioned that Well’s could be used anywhere and anytime, under any circumstances (Shielded, under the Guardian, etc…) The power has been shown to keep injured/exhausted people barely alive when held, so long as they hold it, and aids in being healed. Also if used to repair the DO prison and there is a backlash it will only poison the Well not Saidin. That was the original purpose of the “Eye of the World”. Too much unused information in the books and with conversations to make this info not inportant. Where are all the Male Wells in the series? Rand even mentions them, post DragonMount Redemption.
Can’t wait for Perrin and Loial to meet up and swap married stories.
Gahlad, this is post-LB the light’s vision leading the Children into being Men of the Light… LOL.
Mat’s memory – Mat was sent by Rand to tell Tuon something, then returns to the Tower to get the Horn and in a conversation with Egwene, tells her what Rand had him do. Thus the Quote…
Egwene strode around a frozen pillar of glass in her dream. It almost
looked like a column of light. What did it mean? She could not interpret
it.
So goes day 8. No clue what it means :(
~lakesidey
Reminder:
The thread for Week Two is here.
If they do end up traveling the ways, will they be healed or partially healed because of the cleansing? I don’t think we’ve seen them since that event. Or if new Zen Rand goes in, will the area he’s in heal like the rest of the land?
Whoops thanks Irene :) heading over there now…
440. MartinCahn Saturday December 01, 2012 08:45pm EST Why does “streaks of light” in today’s Galad snippet remind me of how Egwene sees people’s dreams in Tel’aran’rhiod? Perhaps I’m just tired.
Actually I’m glad someone brought this up. The language used to describe the appearance of the Gap of Infinity, (where everyone’s dreams hang out), from Egwene’s point of view is the same language used by Min to describe a viewing of Rand and then Rand when he is close to Mat and Perrin together – “thousands of bright fireflies rushing around in a dark void”.
[Egwene’s POV]
“Wherever she looked ten thousand fireflies vanished as people woke and ten thousand new were born to replace them.”
[MIN viewing Rand] ‘surrounded by darkness, a void and rushing to try to fill that void there appeared to be countless tens of thousands of fireflies, but the shadow seemed larger too. Somehow that viewing represented his battle with the shadow.’
With the dreamlike qualities of the Blight and the rapid unmaking of the world, I’ve wondered if somehow this were all connected – that perhaps Min’s viewing is of dreaming people and she’s seeing the shadow consuming tens of thousands of sleeping people – but I’m still trying to figure out what that would indicate. Is it the ultimate validation for the name “father of lies”? Could the dark one be doing something to the people instead of the world? Perhaps he’s pulling everyone into his dream. Remember when Egwene talked about the dangers of getting drawn into someone else’s dream – she said that strength or talent had nothing to do with it – you were simply subject to the will of the dreamer until they woke up. I haven’t quite figured out what I think this means but as an end result, I believe when the dark one is defeated – from the point of view of the physical world anyway – there wont be a recovery period – they’ll find the weather instantly correct and the land already in full harvest and the blight gone, Malkier restored, yadda, yadda – because I believe the physical effects the dark one has made on the world are only illusion.
Think about the times when Nyneave has sensed or Perrin smelled a state of the world that did not equal what they’re senses told them was all around them.
Just a thought.
But right after the last time Min had this same viewing was when we were told she felt a little guilty for not telling Rand that he would surely fail without Moiraine.
Re: “memory” release #1…My prediction: at some point after the LTT mind merger, Rand went and found the Ring of Tamyrlin.
What is the Ring of Tamyrlin? The following is from the expanded glossary of To the Blight:
“Ring of Tamyrlin (TAHM-ehr-lin): a legendary ring, believed mythical by most people, worn by the leader of the Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends. Stories about the Ring of Tamyrlin include that it was an angreal or sa’angreal or ter’angreal of immense power. It supposedly was named after the first person to learn how to tap into the Source and channel the One Power, and in some tales, was actually made by that man or woman. Despite what many Aes Sedai say, no one knows whether it was a man or a woman who first learned to channel. Some believe that the present title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin.”
We also have this quote from the Guide (TWoRJtWoT aka TBBoBA): “There are rumors of angreal and sa’angreal usable by both men and women, but they remain unconfirmed.”
So RJ makes specific mention of the possibility of a “sa’angreal usable by both men and women,” and the Ring of Tamyrlin is rumored to be an object of “immense power” worn by the First Among Servents (who we assume may be male or female). That’s what led me to speculate (originally posted in Leigh Butler’s WoT re-read of TSR part 3): “I think the Ring was the most powerful One Power (male/female) sa’angreal ever…until the creation of the Choedan Kal in the War of Power.”
ReesaB @55 said, “My first thought was that Rand has found the ring of the Tamyrlin.”
That was my first thought too (posted on the Dragonmount forum immediately after reading the quote), though not many others seem to agree. I guess next month we’ll see if we were right.
Also, tigana0118 @64, I agree with point 1 completely. That Lanfear quote is what originally sparked the discussion that led me to the above conclusions about the Ring of Tamyrlin.
@@@@@ several – the husband of the Daughter of the Nine Moons automatically becomes Prince of the Ravens, but the Empress’s husband is NOT the Emperor. In fact, at some point Galgan thinks about making himself “the first Emperor in nine hundred years.” Tuon never thinks about her father as Emperor – merely as her mother’s consort. And, as mentioned, even after she is Empress she thinks “What would it be like, to have a Prince of the Ravens whom she did not have to plot against?”
@@@@@ dellyphio – I would expect it to be like the men affected by the taint in some ways; with the taint removed, the Ways won’t get worse, but they won’t get better either until they are restored by the Talisman of Growing or something similar. And Machin Shin has apparently taken on a life of its own; something special would have to be done about that, I think.
Ive been Reading thru alot of comments here and its seems alot are confused about parts of the book, 1. Moraine prior to going thru the doorway with Lanfear had taken steps so Lans bond was passed on.
2. If a Black Ajah or forsaken got hold of Rands bond he would Gate to them and destroy them as they cannot use it to compel him ( alanna tried and failed after bonding him ) also Avehnida Elyane and Min have already bonded him as well as alanna Unsure what 5 bonds on 1 person would do, also Alanna is Missing after rand stuck Tam and fled to become Zen Rand. My theory for Maradon is still the True power, as no forsaken were aware he had that power and neither was anyone else, as even Cadsuane was surprised by his comment to the borderlanders about “only the One Power Doesnt work here”
Sorry ive read this series alot of times : ( It is by far my favorate Book series ever written by a very large margin and i am not looking forward to its end, Any one have any plans of doing some Fan Fiction after the last book, id quite like to read MAt and Foruna going back to Seachen after the last battle (if they survive) to reclaim the throne
LOL I figured out the Mat Quote… and the “scowls” part… which puzzled me…
Tuon sees that Mat lost an eye… and says”blah”, then he goes back and fetchs Olver, and Setell Anan, sees he lost an eye, and she says “blah”, so then Mat scowls and says “that’s what she said!”
Today’s quote:
The letter was written in Mat’s hand. And, Elayne noticed with amusement, the handwriting was much neater and the spelling much better in this one than the one he’d sent her weeks ago.
Why is Mat writing to Elayne? Where would Elayne be at this point, that Mat would have to write to her. Cairhein? Camelyn is a mess. Is Mat in Camelyn and Elayne in Cairhein? At least she’s showing some amusement about something, even it it’s only Mat’s handwriting and spelling!
Tektonica – go to the second thread! :)
@466: Beidomon was a Researcher at the Collam Daan. Mierin was on the team with him when they made the Bore in the Sharom (You see this in Charn’s memories in TSR)
As people have said, he was seen as responsible for the DO being released on the World and later hung himself.
Whether or not this is entirely true, however, is dubious. We never know what goes on in the Forsaken’s heads truly…
“And farewell to you, old friend,” she said to the air. “Until I dream again.”
Seems like Egwene speaking. To….. Someone….. not at the Fields of Merrilor… I think.
I think she is refering to Bela, esp cued to ‘Until I dream again’ because created Bela for her in-the-flesh trip through TAR
Sorry Everyone! Just noticed there was a 2nd thread :|
Strange, I didn’t get day 10, but I just received day 11:
“One more thing, the marath’damane . . .”
“I’ll deal with those channelers personally,” Mat said.
She gawked at him as if he were insane.
Is DM down again for anyone else?
I’ve gotta return to the Galad quote because this morning my hubby made a profound statement. He does not follow these threads but we listen to “the story” just about everyday. We are currently listening to LOC. Anyway, he stopped the player and made the following comment, “I’m just wondering when Galad is going to channel”.
We talked about it a bit — It would make sense that Galad could channel. If blood lines carry the power (and I know sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t) Galad would be sure to inherit. From the Damodred side and the Tigraine/daughter heir of Andor side.
The taint is gone and the power would be only light. And Galad would see it as “right” even though he is a Whitecloak
Some male sparkers don’t actually spark until 25 to 30 years old… so maybe.. but the learning to actually use it takes months… so he doesn’t have the time, even if he sparked right now.
Just a quick note. For memories after #7, go to the 2nd week thread here, and limit discussion on this thread to memories #1 through 7. Else confustication will reign supreme.
For those who have not been receiving the Memories via email, here’s the list for the first week:
1. It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.
2. I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?
3. Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn’t you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.
4. Pass his bond to me.
5. “Creator shelter us,” she whispered. Mat scowled. “You know, that’s
what Tuon said.”
6. The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment.
7. “Nobody travels the Ways,” Ituralde said, aghast.
I read some posts that speculate that perhaps Rand got the Ring of Tamyrlin, in reference of the quote “It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important”.
If this is the case, I would surmise that he found it on the top of Dragonmount where LTT died. LTT would have probably worn it when he went to seal the Dark One’s prison. After he had gone mad and went to kill his family, he later used the ring’s enormous power to kill himself and created Dragonmount. If this ring is a sa’angreal (or ter’angreal) it could not be possible to be destroyed by the One Power (plus LTT did not use balefire to kill himself), so perhaps the ring was left on the spot where LTT died (i.e. the top of Dragonmount). Also, nobody discovered Travelling until for three thousand years, and nobody has attempted to scale Dragonmount (as doing so would mean sure death), so Rand would probably be the first one to be on top of Dragonmount since LTT died, and so found the ring there.
Furthermore, to use a angreal or sa’angreal, it seems that touching the item is required to draw on the One Power through it. As I recalled in the scene at Maradon, Rand has to raise his right hand, palm forward, to kill all the Dark One’s forces, and I did not recall he was holding anything. So it shouldn’t be Justice has some speculated. But if he has the Ring, he could have worn it on one of his fingers when he did the killing (and if he want to hide the Ring, he could easily pocket it somewhere during his walk to and from the gateway he created so that nobody would notice).
Just a thought anyway, have waited 18 years for this ending…
Edit: After posting this comment, I just read the The Wheel of Time: A Memory of LightSpoiler-Free Review by Leigh Butler (http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/12/the-wheel-of-time-a-memory-of-light-spoiler-free-review#more) and one comment really caught my eye:
“His pocket? Seriously?”
Is this sort of an evidence to support my theory about the Ring in Rand’s possession, that he has it stored in his pocket? Hmm…
huaixiong @505 – No evidence (yet), but I love the theory!
Edit to add: I think you’re right. On further searching, I find that the glossary of To the Blight (one of the split-TEotW YA books) includes the following entry:
I’d never seen that before, but it makes perfect sense that this is what Lanfear meant by the “two more powerful that a man can use” – clearly one was the male Choedan Kal, but if the Ring of Tamyrlin is the other… Which begs the question – is the Ring the one sa’angreal that can be used by either a man or a woman? (If it can only be used by a man, it would indicate that the original Tamyrlin probably was a man; if it can be used by either, it’s unique; if it can only be used by a woman, then it was merely a status symbol when LTT wore it. Unless all of that is merely rumor and has no basis in fact… but I don’t think it would be included, in that case.)
For the “It had been useful at Maradon….” memory & just to throw out there an obscure possibility…. what about the mercenery Darkfriend who was the head of Elaynes guard (can’t recall his name off the top of my head & I’m to far from books to check – they’re in the Indian Ocean somewhere). Perhaps he’s referring to the Medalian copy?
Recently, Rand got a sword, which we assume to be Artur Hawkwing’s sword Justice. Hawkwing was not a channeler, so perhaps he did not realize that his sword was also a sa’angreal (theoretically). But Rand has it now and he could make use of it. He had it at Maradon. I suspect it will also be used to “bind the Nine Moons to serve him.”
@@@@@ huaixiong
I’m in agreement with Wetlandernw. I think that is an excellent theory. I look forward to finding out if you’re right in January.
Z
Z @509 – Miracles never end, do they? ;)
Can #3 be Galad talking about being newly married to Berelain?
I think this is not Rand. It is out of character for the new hippy-Rand to speak of usefulness, secrets, etc. I would suspect Rand for that quote a couple books back, but not now.
NPR’s book site has a segment of AMoL chapter 3, A Dangerous Place.
It answers memory #2. Taking place in the Black Tower, where the “turned” and the innately evil Asha’man are confronting some of the few who remain in the Light:
As expected, the target of the line is Nalaam, who loves to tell barely plausible tales of his travels and adventures. Mezar is using the query to keep the gathered men in the same place, when Androl was trying to get “his” group away from the others.
Scroll back up to Comment 11: someone mentioned fat man and little boy in the same paragraph…these are the names of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan…could it be a memory from a previous cycle of the wheel and these are two very powerful angreal/sangreal
I know this is technically off topic (and spoilery for those who haven’t read the entire series), but I’ve enjoyed reading and posting on this thread and thought I would share.
In preparation of AMoL’s release tomorrow, I’ve been rereading the series and am in the middle of KoD. I just came upon one of my favorite parts of the entire series: Nynaeve taking Lan to the Borderlands and then starting her visits with the people there. The “Golden Crane” declaration just brought tears to my eyes (again after all these years). What Nynaeve does there is both the epitome of being Aes Sedai, IMO, but also — and more importantly — of being Lan’s wife.
Just beautiful.