Hail, people of Tor.com! Leigh Butler here, of The Wheel of Time Reread. Today, in addition to a Reread, I bring you some interestingly weird news (at least I think so), and an even more interesting (I hope) request.
It will BLOW YOUR MIND, y’all. Or, well, it will at least severely ruffle your bangs. You will need a comb, I’m not kidding.
…And, yeah. Anyway, to find out what the heck I’m blathering about, click the jump!
So as you know, Bob, it is a new year, and that means two things: (a) screwing up every time you have to write the date on anything, and (b) awards season. For the SF/F community no less than any other, as today opens the nominations for the Hugo Awards.
Which is a thing I bet most of y’all have heard tell about at one point or another, but in case you are new, and/or have been living in an SF/F-deprived alternate universe for a while and only just gotten back, that link explains it pretty well. Basically, the Hugos are the Oscars of the SF/F community, and to be awarded one is… well, it’s the shiznit, not to put too fine a point on it.
As a Wheel of Time-adjacent person, this would obviously have been relevant to my interests in any case, as the final novel in the series, A Memory of Light, was published in 2013 and is therefore eligible to be nominated for Best Novel. HOWEVER, I was recently contacted by Jennifer Liang, Chair of JordanCon and WOT fan extraordinaire, with a proposal that was far more interesting, and so now I put it to you for your consideration.
Jennifer herself lays it out very cogently in her post on Dragonmount, which I encourage you to read, but for those with an allergy to clicking links, I will quote the heart of her proposal for you here:
In re-reading the WSFS Constitution recently, I saw this clause in the Hugo eligibility rules:
3.2.6: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works, but the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing in a number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final part.
Simply put, because no portion of The Wheel of Time has ever been nominated for a Hugo, the entire series became eligible as a single work when it was completed.
This, as you might agree, is really interesting. The case that Jennifer is making is that since none of the Wheel of Time novels (with the arguable exception of The Eye of the World) can stand alone, but instead are installments of one huge overarching story that only stand when taken all together, therefore it is not only fair but appropriate to nominate the entire series as a unit for the Best Novel award, now that the story is complete.
Jennifer also goes on to point out that there is precedent for this interpretation of the rules, if not on this scale. In 2011, Connie Willis’s duology, Black Out and All Clear, were nominated for Best Novel together (and won); similarly, the entire first season of HBO’s Game of Thrones was nominated in the “Best Dramatic Presentation – Long Form” category in 2012 (and also won).
The administrators of the Hugos have declined to rule on this interpretation unless and until it becomes an issue, and therefore that’s precisely what Jennifer (and many other WOT fans) propose to make it, by encouraging those of us who feel that the contribution made by the Wheel of Time series to the genre of epic fantasy ought to be recognized by the community at large to put our money where our mouth is, so to speak, and nominate the series, as opposed to just the last novel in it, for the Hugo.
My personal feeling on the technicalities of it, aside from any opinion on the Wheel of Time itself, is that the argument is legit. In a genre positively rife with serialization and sweeping, writ-large stories which often cannot be confined to one unit of storytelling (i.e. one novel) for purely practical reasons, it makes sense to me that where that situation applies, the community should be allowed to reward a work as a whole, instead of just individual chunks of it.
As regards the Wheel of Time series specifically, I am (obviously) biased on its behalf, for any number of reasons, but I would contend that even those who do not care for the series themselves must acknowledge the huge impact and influence the Wheel of Time series has had upon the genre in general, and I feel that it is only appropriate that that impact be recognized and honored on the occasion of its completion.
And I feel, even more importantly, that the contribution of its main author should also be recognized and honored. With no disrespect to Brandon Sanderson, of course, who has already been (quite rightly) awarded by the Hugos in his own right, but I do feel it is a tragic oversight that Robert Jordan has not yet received similar recognition for his work, which has influenced so many of the greatest SF writers of our day. And this proposal, I feel, is the best way to address that oversight.
Therefore, O my Peeps, I exhort you: if you can and will, please consider nominating the Wheel of Time series as a whole for the Hugo Award for Best Novel, and spread the word so that others might do the same.
It should be made clear, by the way, that this is my personal opinion and endorsement, which the lovely folks at Tor.com have graciously allowed me to express on their site but otherwise maintain strict neutrality on the subject, as is right and proper. The Hugos have always been about the community at large deciding what to honor, and it is in that capacity, as a fan, that I am endorsing this notion. I hope that you will agree.
So go! Join! Nominate! Vote! Participate! And maybe help make Hugo history, eh? I can think of worse things to do with your time!
Leigh Butler is a writer, blogger, and opinionator for Tor.com, where she conducts The Wheel of Time Reread and A Read of Ice and Fire, and is deeply disappointed that she cannot afford to go to London this year, because that would be badass. She currently lives in New Orleans.
Very interesting indeed. I personally gave-up on Wheel of Time after book 3 or 4 years ago, but I loved the first 3.
But there is no denyng how WofT has impacted the genre. In my opinion, it had the largest influence on the genre since Lord of the Rings, and up until Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire, which is/was the next genre changing series. But WofT paved the way for Song of Ice and Fire.
So if you base a Hugo nomination on how a work influnced Fantasy, and it meets the criteria, it does indeed deserve it.
I really like this interpretation of the rules, since it allows you to vote on an entire story/body of work rather than just one chunk of it. And I am biased too but I think the WoT is a great nominee (I will be nominating it). From my perspective as an old guy who reads a lot of sci fi/fantasy… I think WoT did a lot to establish the importance of worldbuilding, inclusion of female main characters and just pushed the fantasy genre away from the endless dungeons and dragon’s and tolkein adaptations of the 1980s, etc.
Well….this is an interesting idea. I really like it. A Memory of Light is a freaking fantastic book, but it is only good if you know what happened in the rest of the story. While I was planning on nominating it for Best Novel, I think I’ll nominate the entire series and see what happens.
1) In principle I agree with the idea of nominating the Big Story
2) I do have some philosophical qualms, however. I remember when people wrote novels. And those novels were not “Volume One of The Nuclear Earthworm Saga.” If the story worked, there were sequels, but they were not written and conceived as a twenty year project. Do not get me wrong, I admire the work of those that can produce either a massive work published all at once (that means you, JRRT) or a massive work published over the years (that means you, GRRM). But establishing a precedent such as this may encourage an emphasis on the loooooong series as opposed to the single novel—and with the proliferation of Earthworm Sagas, short stories and single novels need all the help they can get.
So yes, I would love for WOT to get a Hugo but I wonder if nomination for “best series” would be more appropriate than “best novel” similar to the way Foundation won as a series rather than as a single novel back in the day…
While I agree that a series like the Wheel of Time should be eligible, I would not agree that the Wheel of Time is. I got disenchanted, bored, fed up, with the series around book 5 when the whole thing was moving slower than a glacier. Jordan could easily have written it in 3 or 4 books by simply cutting out the dross. The only real impact on the genre that I can see is that he made it “ok” to write overly long books that had little point or progress. I think George Martin took that to heart as well.
It is interesting that last year 118 nominations was the last to make the cutoff.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2013HugoStatistics.pdf
As the author of that wording in Section 3.2.6, I would agree with that
interpretation of the rules. I’d also add that the proviso is
unnecessary in my view: there have been cases where novel incorporating a
Hugo-winning shorter work has been nominated for the Hugo later
(Beggars in Spain being an example).
Dr Thanatos: on the other hand, if a looong series can only be nominated when it is finished, that might actually encourage authors to finish them.
The ‘Best Series’ award which Foundation received was a one-off. Could it be made a regular thing? I think – I certainly hope – that there are not enough series to sustain it. Certainly not finished ones. There might well be years in which no series was finished.
Andrew: It is true that Foundation got “Best Series of All Time” (and
deservedly so) and this was a one-off but the concept of a series award
as opposed to defining a series as a single novel works for me. As in
other awards, not every award needs to be given every year.
I agree that incentives to complete looong novels are a good idea; the Iron Maiden as an editorial device has, in my view, been under-appreciated…
I still have issues with every new author’s first novel being billed as
“first” in a “saga;” Asimov, Smith, and Heinlein didn’t craft their long
series that way; they evolved organically and I find that as a reader
far more satisfying. I would love to see authors look at their works in
that way rather than everyone planning from the beginning to write a
twenty-year book…
Wow, okay, I will say no. I adored this series, but given the last entry and the lack luster few books after Lord of Chaos and on balance…no.
The Shadow Rising falls behind only The Silmarillion and Storm of Swords on my list of favourite books though. I am not sure why you can’t win a Hugo award for an entry in a series, because there are several books here that should have been nominated, but not the series as a whole. It’s yet to be seen whether GRRM can keep enough balance to deserve that honour but he’s been on shaky ground with the last couple (still, they are way, way better than the middle entries of the WoT).
Did the WOT become bloated and bogged down in books 8-10? Yes. Should those story arch distract from the great multi-faceted story telling of the overall arch? No.
The first three books were tight and lead you into a world we were familiar with, but had so many aspects that were completely different than seen before. The forth book opened the world in a manner of Dorothy finding Oz. The world expanded in amazing and epic ways.
WOT was my first foray into the epic fantasy realms.
Did I get mad with it? Yes, but I’m not going to say that the slowness of books 8-10 would cause the whole story to be disqualified as an amazing award winning story.
Sanderson (and Team Jordan) finished a great story. But it was story started by and outlined by Robert Jordan. Since the whole series is possibly eligible, based on the current rules, it is fitting that the whole story get the nomination.
Even a great story has parts that run a little slower than the rest.
The end finished with a bang. Let’s honor that bang now.
Even if you are not a fan of the WOT series (which I am), I don’t know how one could understate its impact on the SF/F world, as Leigh has already pointed out.
WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!!WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!!WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!!WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!!WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!! WHEEL OF TIME…HUGO!!!!
I signed up as a supporting member to help nominate the series as a whole!
@13 BlackAjah. I see you favour the less subtle forms of compulsion. You’ll never make Chosen if you don’t learn a little more finesse.
Dr Thanatos: OK, but has any Hugo not been awarded in a year where it was on the list? I know that Nebulas have, but that’s another thing.
My worry is this: one year there may be just one nomiee for Best Series, The Serpent of Brfgh, because that was the only series finished that year: and while those of us who are not its fans could vote for ‘no award’, that would seem rather churlish, especially if we haven’t read it – and we aren’t going to read a whole series just to see if it deserves an award. So it wins by default, and finishing a series becomes an easy way to get an award.
That ship sailed a long time ago. Many authors have been published since WoT started due to the popularity of long-form series (series longer than the traditional trilogy or even four volumes). The most notable are Steven Erikson and Adrian Tchaikovsky, who both got 10-book deals from the off. Technically GRRM didn’t fall into this bracket to start off with, as ASoIaF was bought as a trilogy (!) and only later expanded to more volumes, but GRRM has also said that the extra long length of ASoIaF as it now stands may not have been viable in a pre-Jordan marketplace.
As for the award, it’s a very nice idea but I must admit that I’m doubtful if it will happen. This year’s Worldcon is in the UK and UK SFF fans – who will be the voting majority this year – tend to be a lot more sceptical of Jordan and WoT. It’s popular here, certainly, but not critically acclaimed. I think a nomination would be a very fine tribute to RJ and Brandon’s achievements, however.
Question: The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant would also qualify, as its final book, The Last Dark, was published in 2013. However, the book is also the tenth and final volume of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever, a series which outstrips even WoT in influence and importance (it began much earlier, in 1977, and kick-started the entire modern epic fantasy genre). I presume that would also be eligible?
Also, Raymond E. Feist’s Riftwar Saga ended last year after 29 novels and 31 years. Although I doubt too many people would vote for that, given the poor quality of the entire second half of the series.
Personally, I think Wheel of Time was at least 10 books too long, but still… I think it deserves a nomination. It was huge, in far more ways than word count.
And no, Thomas Covenant did not kick-start the entire modern epic fantasy genre in 1977, since that first book, and much of the first trilogy was such a blatant rip-off of Lord of the Rings.
Would this mean that the entire WOT series would be part of the voters package?
Lord Foul’s Bane and The Sword of Shannara, both released in May 1977, did kick-start the ‘modern’ epic fantasy genre; Lord of the Rings was the movement’s progenitor, but oddly did not spawn many successful follow-ups until Brooks and Donaldson wheeled out their books more than twenty years later.
Also, Lord of the Rings didn’t have a leprosy-ridden Frodo sexually assaulting someone three chapters into the book, unless I’ve seriously forgotten something about it. You might be thinking of Shannara, which is indeed just LotR with the serial numbers filed off.
@Werthead & @auspex: The modern epic fantasy genre launched in 1977, yes, but not with Thomas Covenant. Tolkien kindled the fire in the first half of the century, but it wasn’t until the late ’60s/early ’70s (15 years after Fellowship) that things began to take off with editor Lin Carter’s Ballantine Adult Fantasy series of classic reprints. Then in ’77, Judy-Lynn del Rey brought out Terry Brooks’ The Sword of Shannara, an even more blatant LotR rip than Convenant, and we were quickly off to the races.
(Cross-posted with you, Werthead)
What looks like a rip-off from a distance may be seen from closer to as a genre convention. The entire detective genre, if described an abstract enough terms, can be seen as a rip-off of Sherlock Holmes (which is itself, of course, a rip-off of Poe), but that doesn’t mean that the differences between individual stories don’t matter.
But returning to the Hugo issue, I’ve realised that there is a possible ambiguity in the rules. I think Jennifer Liang is reading it as saying that a series is eligible if no part of it has been nominated. However, I would read it as saying simply that parts of series are eligible but series themselves are not: but works published in parts – something different from series – are eligible. Thus, Lord of the Rings, which is a single novel, would be eligible, while the Harry Potter series, in which each book has a self-contained narrative, though they also form a larger arc, would not. I take it that WOT is more like LOTR, and so would be eligible; but I’m not sure all the series that have been mentioned here are.
Dear Leigh,
I love TWOT, and I believe it to be one of the most significant works in the genre. Ever.
That being said, is a Hugo nomination as best novel the best way to recognize it?
In light of the fact that in the last 30 years these ultra longform multipart novels (to be distinguished from classic trilogies) have become ubiquitous in the genre, there should be some way of recognizing them.
The question, however, is what constitutes the best way of doing so?
I don’t believe that you should compare them to what would be considered novels of normal length; it would be like judging novels and novellas in one category.
What are the criteria that should be used in judging such works, and in what ways do they differ in judging novels and short stories?
As AnotherAndrew @@@@@ 16 notes, what if there are no works of note or no works at all completed during the year?
Is there anything that would prevent such an award being awarded, say, every 4 or 5 years so as to create a suitable pool of nominees?
Hugo for AMoL? Yes.
Hugo for the series? No.
If we’re treating the series as a single novel, we have to judge it as if it were a single novel. What Hugo-winning novel have you read where for a nearly-contiguous 50% of the entire novel you were thinking to yourself “Uggghhh…for the love of the LIGHT why won’t something HAPPEN?!?”
I think giving the Hugo to AMoL is an effective way to reward the good parts while not rewarding the not-good parts.
I’m all for nominating the series as a whole, I think. However, if fans of the series divide on whether to nominate AMoL or the series as a whole, is there a chance that neither will garner enough nominations to make it as Hugo Award nominees?
I think it would set a bad precedent. While I’m under no illusion that everyone who votes for the Hugos reads everything in each category, it should at least be possible to do so. How can someone who hasn’t read WoT before possibly vote on it? Reading a volume or two wouldn’t be enough – it’s the entire series that would be nominated, and quality can varie in any series.
Also, the concept of a “complete” series can be rather dodgy – they have a way of acquiring new volumes when we least expect them to. Now, that might not be the case for WoT, but if a rule is to be made it shouldn’t create problems down the line.
@27 and @28 both make good points, and relative to @27, it might be a good idea for tor.com, Dragonmount, et al to make some kind of recommendation to avoid the split vote issue @27 mentions, which would be a complete travesty. @28, on the one hand you have an important point; on the other hand, even if AMoL is nominated alone, realistically no one who hasn’t read all the other books will vote for it.
I do think that the discussion so far concerning “series of books” v. “stories so incredibly long that the conventions of modern publishing require them to be in multiple volumes” is an important one. And I do think that LOTR and WoT are perfect examples of the latter. . .the “nobody does anything” feeling of some notorious middle books we don’t need to name drops away to an incredible degree if you’re doing a front-to-back, no-pauses reread with a WoT newbie. Yes, I’ve done that. Out loud. It was a lot of reading. And my Seanchan accent kind of sucks.
I consider myself an “outsider” since I’ve never been into “fan” stuff, cons, and have never cast a Hugo ballot. OTOH I’ve read SF since the 1950s – fantasy not as much, but certainly acknowledge that there is no sharp division (Heinlein’s “Magic, Inc.” and much of Ray Bradbury’s work could easily qualify as fantasy).
Many of the earliest SF writers were not trained in creative writing, and it often showed. Clarke was, by training a physicist/mathematician, Heinlein an engineer, Asimov a chemist. James Rigney’s background fits into this group quite well.
So the Hugos were, from the first, based on popularity rather than literary quality. And, based on popularity, it is difficult to see how the WOT saga could not be an award winner! The problem is, as has been said above, how to categorize it. The fact is that, looking back, several of the early books were wonderful, BUT their quality only became fully apparent in light of the perspective provided by later books!
The popularity and impact of the saga is clearly worthy of recognition. If there were an appropriate category (“world building?”) I would strongly support WOT’s nomination. I’m not sure that “Best Novel” is it though. Let’s work on this and find a solution.
I am a major supporter and fan of the series, truly I am. I re-read it every other year or so and enjoy every book (to different capacities) and am amazed at how the story managed to expand so much. But I am not certain it is worthy of a Hugo.
Hugo winners are known for having tight, innovative, groundbreaking text and plots. The Wheel of Time is many things, but innovative and groundbreaking, I’m not so certain. What I feel the Wheel of Time might deserve is some sort of Oscar equivalent to a lifetime achievment award (which I’d also give to LOTR and a smattering of other great unrewarded works) that honor the way the series impacted and shapes the fantasy community. There is no denying that many well deserved award winners (like Sanderson himself) were majorly influenced by WOT, and that should certainly be taken into account, but I’m really not convinced the actual physical substance of the WOT is Hugo-worthy.
“[B]ut I would contend that even those who do not care for the series themselves must acknowledge the huge impact and influence the Wheel of Time series has had upon the genre in general[.]”
You’d think so, but you’d be wrong. At least, if by “huge impact and influence” you mean actually laudable impact and influence on fantasy fiction. And surely, no book should get an award for just being influential…
Robert Jordan’s only laudable impact on fantasy fiction was his endorsement of George R R Martin’s ‘Game of Thrones’, which that author has acknowledged as instrumental for the novel’s success.
The Hugo Award has been thrown at a number of laughable recipients in its time. Let’s not make it any more ridiculous.
Hey Leigh….fyi….I just went to the WorldCon site to join, so I could nominate for the 2014 awards, but their info stated that joining now would only enable you to nominate for the 2015 Hugos, and did not mention the 2014 Hugo nominations.
I infer from this, that ony those that are presently members can nominate for this years Hugos. However, it was unclear ifnew members would be able to vote for the 2014 nominees.
Can you clarify that?
Re: nomination/membership deadlines. If I’m reading the rules correctly, people have until January 31, 2014 to register (in order to be eligible to nominate–the nomination period runs through the end of March): http://www.loncon3.org/nominations.php
Also relevant:
Hugo Voting Process
(http://www.thehugoawards.org/i-want-to-vote/)
The Hugo Awards voting process has two stages: a nomination period and a final voting period. During the nomination period ballots may be cast by current Worldcon members (who join by January 31) and members from the previous year’s Worldcon.
After the nomination period closes, only members of the current Worldcon are eligible to vote on the final ballot.
Hope that helps–anyone with additional info, please feel free to clarify!
BMcGovern@34:That’s right. if you register before January 31, 2014 you can nominate for this years Hugos. Once the nomination period is over, if you are a member then you can vote for the final Hugo.
Note that in each category you can nominate up to 5 works but you are notrequired to nominate five–you can nominate fewer.
For those of you who are doing this the first time, (cool!) feel free to nominate any eligible work that you think should be on the Hugo ballot.
Then, in March, please do consider the works that actually make the ballot. As a member you will get a copy of all of these and can read through any you haven’t read yet. Even if the works that you originally nominated don’t make the final ballot, this is a good chance to explore some authors you may not have read yet and see what other people are excited about.
This understanding of the rule actually creates an incentive for the author to not want to be nominated while the series is incomplete. There are cases of books in the middle of a long series being nominated for Hugo. A Storm of Swords, book 3 of the A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R R Martin, was nominated for the Hugo in 2001. And it lost to Harry Potter and the Globet of Fire, by J K Rowling (book 4 of the 7-book Harry Potter series). Both series were incomplete back then, but people thought they were awesome books on their own that deserved to be nominated and one of them actually won.
I don’t think A Memory of Light is good enough to win the Hugo award on its own. I think there are better books in the middle of the WoT series (The Great Hunt, The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, A Crown of Swords, The Fires of Heaven). It’s unfortunate they weren’t nominated back then. I think if A Memory of Light wins the Hugo, the voters would be voting thinking about the whole series and not only the last novel. Like what happened with the 2003 Oscars. The Return of the King was a good movie, but the Academy certainly was showing respect for the trilogy as a whole, and not just that movie.
Thank you for the clarification, BMcGovern and Stevenhalter.
Now if I can find where to nominate……it was a rather confusing site…lots of info.
Tek@37:The login for actual nomination form starts here:
http://www.loncon3.org/hugo_nomination_form.php
You will need your pin code assigned by the con to login.
Don’t feel in a rush to nominate things right now. You have until
Monday 31 March 2014, 11.59 pm PDT to cast your nomination.
Consider what you read. Look around. On John Scalzi’s site, he opened up a thread for authors to list works that are eligible this year. Most importantly, have fun!
I’ve been arguing to friends for years that WOT, (with the exception of New Spring) is not a series of novels, but in a similar vein to LOTR, is a series of books of the same novel, basically published as extremely long, and nonperiodic, serials. Not only does this make total sense to me as a “possible way to get WOT a nomination”, it’s actually the way WOT should be treated by awards communities.
skybrightthoughts @@@@@ 27:
Jennifer Liang has spoken to the admins on this, and they said they would combine nominations in favor of the majority opinion. (That’s how the whole first season of Game of Throne went on the ballot in 2012 instead of individual episodes.)
Therefore, it seems that if there are enough nominations for both AMOL and the Wheel of Time series, but more for the latter, then the AMOL noms will count toward the total count for WOT. I think.
timilloo @@@@@ 7:
Thank you!
It appears that Supporting and Attending members of Sasquan (August 19-23, 2015; Spokane, WA, USA) are also eligible to nominate and vote this year (and next year also, I guess; maybe even in 2016).
At the current registration fee and exchange rate, it’s a couple of USD less expensive to register as a Supporting member of Sasquan than Loncon.
The notion of WofT being one singular work seems legit. While, I can agree, at least slightly with some of the commentators here, about the work being overly long. Some of the books could have been eliminated by shrinkingI do not agree that the series could have been wrapped up in 4 to 5 books. Could you honestly develop Egwene from backwater village innkeeper’s daughter to the most powerful head of state on the entire continent, in just 4 books? Not to mention some of the other characters.
If the nomination was accepted that would also be a strong argument for the WoT to be eligible for the Guinness World Record for “longest novel”, which I believe is currently held by Proust’s _Remembrance of Lost Time_.
thinking more about this, I beleive it might be best if WoT just received a special award… maybe a special one off Hugo for groundbreaking series. IMHO, there is going to be a lot of good competition this year for a Hugo. WoT will get nominated but I dont think it can win for best novel. And it doesnt really fit in that category.
I followed the link to Hugo awards, clicked on “I want to vote” was redirected to LoneStarCon site, and first thing I see is that the con is over and at the top of the page is a “Membership Closed” button. I just got this email for this story today but it seems already too late to join, vote, nominate or participate :(
Logansfury@46:LoneStarCon was last years Worldcon. You should be going to LonCon3. The nominations info page is at:
http://www.loncon3.org/nominations.php
Ways @42:
Unfortunately, you’re only partly right:
That’s a pity since I would like to be able to vote for WoT too, not just nominate it. :(
Ah well, I’ll just pay £25 for the LonCon membership besides the $40 I just payed for the Sasquan… ;( And then I get to vote next year too! Yay! :)
That’s what being a fan is all about right? :-D
I like the idea of a series award, and I think WoT would be a worthy candidate, given its impact on the genre. Personally, I loved the first three books, got a bit bored with the Seanchan and the Aiel Waste in 4 and 5, got into it again and eventually loved Lord of Chaos, and felt it declined dramatically and felt bloated up until the final three volumes, which breathed new life into it. The conclusion was not exactly what I had hoped for, but it was satisfying, which was much more than what I was expecting back when reading Path of Daggers.
Would these rules require that such a nomination only be considered for the year of completion of a series? Because Feist’s final entry in the Midkemia story came in 2013 as well, and taken as a single work, would be worthy of a Hugo. Against the Wheel of Time, however, it would likely fail, and I would hate for the coincidental timing of the conclusions of those two epics to dictate one getting kicked to the proverbial curb.
How about a category of award specially suited to long works, with nominating factors more like a sports HOF, where once eligible, a work could be nominated and voted on a number of years before dropping into award oblivion.
Just saying.
Freelancer@50:If you attend the Worldcon and go to the WSFS Business Meetings (www.loncon3.org/wsfs-business.php) you can propose things like this. As with any large, varied organization it might be best to get to know the political structures and such.
For this particular Hugo round, the rules are already set. So, if Feist’s work is eligible for nomination for 2013 then that is when it is eligible. You may nominate bot WoT and Feist’s work. You can nominate up to 5 works.
All of the nominations are then counted up and the top 5 (with some percentage requirements) are what then go on to be voted for.
Sure, forty years ago. Recently? Not so much. Connie Willis’s duology was considerably worse than any WHEEL OF TIME book (apart maybe from #10) and Scalzi’s winner last year was fun, disposable froth but nothing more. Looking at the history of the awards, they’ve actually done a pretty good job of recognising the best genre has to offer over the decades, but for the past 10-15 years they’ve been much, much patchier. Rewarding WHEEL OF TIME, even if it’s purely for its commercial impact (Tor Books may owe WoT its long-term survival, and certainly its sheer level of success, allowing it to publish and take risks with more niche work), doesn’t seem out of keeping with that.
Is the Feist series reasonably considered a work published in parts, like LOTR or WOT, or is it more a series of the conventional sort in which the novels have some independence? If the latter, it may not be eligible.
Freelance: I would prefer Jonellin Stonebreaker’s suggestion of an award every four or five years. An award which is voted on every year but with rolling eligibility would not, I feel, have enough possible nominees to make it seriously competitive; every series would win it sooner or later.
Wert, so you’re essentially saying that a bunch of undeserving books have won in recent years, so why break that new tradition?
You talk about WoT being responsible for Tor’s survival. Well, New Line Cinema owes it’s survival to “A Nightmare On Elm Street”‘s massive monetary success. None of the individual films have been nominated for Best Picture as of yet, so the entire franchise could go up for Best Picture someday. Yes, I know the Oscars and Hugo’s are two different things, but the comparison is valid.
Yay!! Leigh, it worked! We got WoT nominated for Best Novel!
It is an absolute travesty that the entire series got nominated for best novel of 2013. The decision by the Hugo Awards committee to allow this was ridiculous.
I agree with Alan. One of the most stupid nomination in the history of Hugoes. I hope that there will be plenty of “no award” votes.
@57 @58 While you’re welcome to express your opinion, please tone down the rhetoric and respect the fact that others in the discussion might feel differently. You can refer to our moderation policy if you need a clarification on any of the guidelines. Thanks.
Its been repeated a lot that no one here should be stopped from expressing their opinion on the WOT series. But in context this is criticism or praise of a single story. That IS the context here. Like it or don’t but it IS one of the nominees and it WILL win or lose within that definition. What no one here should tolerate are double standards. What I’m getting at is that on the rare occasion someone has criticized a book here AND revealed they never finished it or skipped the middle, the community here and elsewhere ripped that person a new one – and rightly so. If you want to tell us all your opinion about why you didn’t like WOT or why it shouldn’t be nominated then feel free, we all do that but let’s not give those that couldnt be bothered to finish it or felt the need to skip parts a pass for such behavior. Would any of you allow yourself to be dissuaded from seeing a movie by someone that admitted they only watched parts of it? Or worse, never saw the end? It’s ludicrous. In no other case would those people be treated seriously so they shouldn’t here.