Closer and closer it comes… Words of Radiance arrives in less than two weeks! Are you excited? Are there anticipationspren around your head right now? Are you enjoying those Glimpses of Radiance? Is Carl having way too much fun? Are his fingers stuck in that steepled position? Do you have a burning need for MOAR?
Today’s tease takes the form of a brief spoiler-free review, accompanied by a list of reflections and reactions to various scenes and events. Cruel torment (but no spoilers) ahead. Enter at your own risk.
Someone asked on the earlier post, “If Way of Kings was my favorite book of all time, do you think Words of Radiance will become my new favorite book of all time?” It’s rather the obvious question, isn’t it: Does Book 2 live up to the expectations?
My answer is a resounding, “Yes!”
The Way of Kings, as the first volume in The Stormlight Archive, not only had the task of engaging us in a new story and making us care about new characters—it also bore the burden of primary world-building for a non-intuitive ecology, complex political and religious systems, and half-buried but important historical context. You’re reading this, so I assume you found it sufficiently engaging; it did its job. It left us with Kaladin rescuing Dalinar, Adolin, and what was left of the Kholin army from certain death; Dalinar rescuing Kaladin and the bridgemen from Sadeas’ tender ministrations; Shallan staying with Jasnah after all; and the pair of them proposing to go to the Shattered Plains.
Words of Radiance, while continuing to build on the framework laid out in The Way of Kings, is much more free to focus on plot development. What’s the deal with the Everstorm? What new villainy will Sadeas furnish? Will Shallan and Jasnah make it safely to the Plains? As expected, those questions will be answered, at least in part. As expected, there are more revelations about the Knights Radiant, both past and present. As expected, the Parshendi receive some… illumination. Questions are answered, and new questions are raised.
As The Way of Kings was Kaladin’s book, this is Shallan’s book. I’ll give you a little freebie here: none of the reflections below involve Shallan’s flashback sequence. I found that I couldn’t take my thoughts out of context of the entire experience, so I’ll save that discussion for the spoiler review. I’ll just say that after Words of Radiance, I can almost guarantee that no one will look at her the same way, whether you loved her, hated her, or anywhere between. I won’t promise that you’ll love her. I won’t promise that you’ll even like her. But I promise you won’t see her the same way you did before.
On that note… here’s the list. I surprised myself by coming up with nearly 70 items the first time through; I’ve cut that in half (partly by cutting out everything to do with Shallan’s flashbacks!) but it’s still a long list. I hope you enjoy it.
I should note that I don’t know how well this will work. When Leigh Butler did this for the last books of the Wheel of Time, we all knew some of what had to happen. We knew the characters, and had some pretty good ideas of what they “ought” to do. With The Stormlight Archive, we don’t have that level of expectation built up, so this might be more in the line of cruel teasing. Sorry…
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Okay, I sure hope someone can decode this, because I’ve tried, and tried, and tried, and I’m clueless.
(How’s that for a way to start the list? Cryptographers, prepare! Or possibly, beware.)
- Oh, Teft. You make me so sad. So very, very sad.
- Oh, my. Bravo. That was a fantastic scene. It was perfect, and disturbing, and saddening, and encouraging all at once.
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I found it quite painful to read this—his mind flickering between the little flashes of memory, the battle going on around him… and then “Move. Grieve later. Move!”—to the reader, almost as much as to the character—you can’t stop here! And I loved his obedience to his own command.
(I was disagreeing with other beta readers here, some of whom felt that we didn’t know enough for this to hurt as much as it should. Obviously I felt I did…)
- Wow. He was right after all. I still don’t like him, but now I pity him. So many questions answered in two short sentences.
- I’m beginning to think that this is the essence of Lightweaving. Amazing concept.
- Gah. I finally had to quit copying every sentence that gave me a thrill—there are just so many. Oh, so many lovely things happening. ______ laying down his burden was superb. ______ charging was brilliant. _______ dying (sad face)—he died well, but how terrifying that death would have been! _______’s return was breathtaking. _____ crashing… (I’m running out of superlatives!) Ah. It was hard to remember to breathe during this chapter.
- Oh, like that’s not going to come back and bite you or anything. This whole conversation was a crazy blend of hilarity and trepidation, thinking about the probable consequences.
- I really need a glyph for ambivalence. I loved so much about this chapter. That’s what was getting boring? LOL! And that reconciliation is made of win. On top of that, he believes _______, which is very insightful of him. But… I don’t trust ________ as far as I can throw a chasmfiend, not with power like that. And just who do you think you are, dude, to decide what’s “best” for the whole storming kingdom? I have a bad feeling about this…
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Dalinar, no! No, no, NO! Oh, wait… … … What? Really? BAHAHAhahahahahah! Oh, yeah!
(And there was fist-pumping.)
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I have no words. I’m sitting here shuddering. I’m going to keep reading now…
(That was quite literally true. I sat here in this very chair and silently shuddered for about five minutes, posted that comment, and started reading again.)
- I rather like these folks. They’re funny and intelligent.
- Well, that was a chilling combination of comedy and terror. From the immersive perspective, I’m surprised and sad that it didn’t work. From a more detached perspective, it’s better this way; things don’t come readily and the consequences are severe.
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YESSSSSSS!!!!!! (Sorry for shouting… No I’m not.)
(That was, word for word, what I put in the google-doc. There was also fist-pumping and arm-waving, which I didn’t attempt to document.)
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Well, he seems to have unexpected depths… And so much for unexpected depths. But I’m glad he died a soldier. That actually made me tear up: “You were a fine way to ____________.”
(I never, ever would have expected to cry for him.)
- Heh. No wonder they call her a heretic. Outrageous!
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Oh, YES! This has been questioned so, so much. Well, it appears that our questioning was both valid and invalid—valid because it was a good question, and invalid because we simply didn’t know as much as we thought we did. Now we again get it drilled into us how very little we actually know.
(Chew on that one for a while. Neener neener.)
- Part of me wants to shriek that this is NOT the same man we’ve seen before … but at the same time, I love it. He has actual, multiple layers (as he should, being who he is) but this particular layer completely took me by surprise. I never expected that he would—or even could—make a decision like this. Stunning.
- Well, isn’t that a fascinating way to look at speech… No wonder they’re called “Cryptics”—the way they think is completely non-intuitive for a human.
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“I hate reading books on computer. This is where I should have the satisfaction of chucking several pounds of book across the room. Stupid stupid stupid! Is he ever going to learn to think before he acts?”
(This was borrowed from Bob, another beta reader, but it was just too well said. And he spoke for most of us, judging from the comments. I certainly felt the same way!)
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This brought tears to my eyes. Oh, that was beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.
(I feel like I should give you more to go on, here, but I can’t think of much to say. It was such a character-defining moment.)
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Well, there’s one theory proven right.
(I honestly don’t remember if I thought it was valid or not, but I remember thinking that some people were too thoroughly convinced on insufficient evidence.)
- I’m sure I must have breathed during the first part of this chapter, but once Shallan started drawing… I can’t guarantee it. I was certainly holding my breath when Jasnah walked in!
- Very big grin, small happy dance. I loved this. First the callback to… whenever it was that Shallan asked _______ the same thing, and then the segue to _______ using it elsewhere at the same time. (Also? Nice to have a moment of pure fun tossed into the tenseness—it doesn’t actually break the tension, but it does let the reader grab a gasp of air.)
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“So… _______ is ________. And, ‘Of course, there wasn’t one. Hadn’t been one in years.’ Oh, ________, what happened to you?”
(This is unabashedly borrowed from Eric, another beta reader; I didn’t make this connection at all, and didn’t even believe it at the time. My big question was, “What Heralds are going to be on the chapter icons here?” Peter, of course, merely said, “That is an excellent question!” Him and his Aes Sedai answers.)
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No. Just… no. I will not accept this.
(I’m not going to give you any more. I’m betting most of you will recognize it when you read it.)
- This may be the single most hilarious line in all of fantasy. Or maybe it’s the fact that I was reading way past my bedtime last night. … … No, it’s still hilarious this morning, after rereading the conversation. Seriously, though, one of the things I adore about this scene was that it’s a moment of crazy, incongruous humor in the midst of some fairly intense stuff, and yet it still fits perfectly into what’s going on, so in a way it’s not incongruous at all.
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::stunned silence::
(Seriously. It took me several days to find anything coherent to say about this scene.)
Please tell me it’s not true. I don’t know what I dare hope for; it won’t surprise me if it’s true, but I still want it not to be. I’m trying not to hope anything in particular, but this is tough.
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Oh, yes. Oh, yes. OH, YES. There’s so much vindication here!!! I’m not sure whether that’s applicable to choices, worth, theories, or what—but it’s STUNNING!
(And there was dancing, and fist-pumping, and crying, and then I had to keep reading because it wasn’t over yet.)
- This whole chapter made me giggle. “You monster.” Lying in wait for grass. And hey—COSPLAY! That would be fun, practical and comfortable. Also “…flapping in the wind, like the Stormfather’s own ears.” ROFL!
- Even the second and third time through, this moves me to tears. Maybe especially the second and third time, knowing what the results will be. Oh, you fool. You fool. You fool.
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Oh, my. Ohmyohmyohmyohmy.
(I know that’s not much to go on, but… All I can do is suggest a visual of extremely wide eyes. This was not a dancing or fist-pumping moment—it was wide eyes and a slack jaw, as something I’d never even imagined… happened. I was all but incoherent.)
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And… there’s the painting. Sah-weet.
(There was much delighted squealing and arm-waving going on when I read this scene. You’ll love it. Promise.)
- This chapter title was perfect. It gave me shivers. And it’s oddly far more effective here than it would be on the earlier chapter, which is… pretty amazing in itself.
Well, there you have it. A still-too-long list: reflections of Radiance. Out of courtesy to those who are trying to avoid spoilers, please try to keep them out of the comments as well. If you really want to say something that could be a spoiler (think pre-released materials), please white out the text; remember that if you preview your comment, the white text will revert to black, so you’ll need to make it white again just before you hit Post. Once the book is out on March 4th, of course, everything is fair game—but until then, let’s try to keep this a spoiler-free zone!
Alice Arneson has been a fantasy lover since the age of eight, when her third-grade teacher loaned her his copy of The Hobbit. (Thanks, Mr. Hamilton!) The most amazing place she’s ever visited (aside from growing up next door to Glacier National Park) is Iguacu Falls.
Grr. My life needs a fast-forward button.
@1 No kidding.
Well, I think at least one of those comments refers to a preview chapter. Which was pretty awesome.
Has anyone done a Pools of Radiance riff yet?
Two short sentences- ugh! Want to know!
Bite you comment – looking forward to the eye rolls
How many name characters are going to die this book?!
Think before he acts… the King?
Sigh… your whole reaction makes me want to take that week off work.
Will just have to settle for one however.
“He was right after all.”
My money’s on Amaram.
a) I’ll go with “Kaladin laying down his burden was superb” (or even Dalinar if he dies, though methinks not. Someone who IMO dies is Teft)
b) Also, either Amaram or Sadeas died. Maybe the latter? ‘I never expected to cry for *him*’
c) *Stunned silence* I’ll go with a good guy turning bad? Dalinar maybe, or Renarin.
d) Last bullet point maybe refers to Szeth finally arriving — and whatever happens next.
*****
This is me, calling ’em now. I’m sure I’ll take back everything once I’ve read the book, but guessing it’s fun.
Thanks for doing this, very intriguing.
Decoding, if I had to guess, would be another of Navani’s notebook pages – there was tons of good information on those in WoK, but I can’t read them myself.
Excited to learn more about Lightweaving in particular (and Surgebinding in general).
@2 – are you thinking of Shallan’s drawing? It seems like the most likely candidate to me.
As far as the theory proved right despite a lack of apparent/clear evidence – I have to guess Helaran.
Aside from that, I think the remainder of my guesses might have to wait until I actually read the book. Which I just booked a day off to do on March 4th. I don’t know if I’ll finish it in one day, but I’ll have a good start at least (and will definitely be reading it multiple times, slower subsequent times than the first).
@6 – yeah, but what if it isn’t? *shudders*
Damnit, Sanderson, I really need my ability to even. I can’t be tossing it away everytime you finish a book. It’s really hard to function without it.
Ugh, sorry I had to stop reading after the fifth bullet. It’s just not even fun to have it dangled in your face with no context. (Same reason why I stopped reading the glimpses discussion thread). I just want the book already!
That was me she quoted about the “if Way of Kings was my favorite book of all time…” I’m famous!
@6 I think the theory refers to Helaran too. That one always seemed to have so little evidence, but so many believe it so fervently.
@1 – If you were like that gal from Alloy of Law, you could pop your bubble and speed up time around you!
Hmmm. Rereading this now… it really is cruel torment, isn’t it? I’d like to be able to say I’m sorry, but it’s really fun to read the guesses!
FWIW, I’m going to break with tradition and NOT make the answers part of the spoiler review. (That will be quite long enough without!) Somewhere around a week after the release, I’ll post the “key” in a new article, and we can discuss the relative merits of my choices vs. yours. :)
That first bullet drove me nuts. I gave up after multiple efforts. Tried all sorts of things. Peter defintely has the Aes Sedai answers down pat. No hints, no reveals.
So far I read “down” to the second non-spoiler reaction (about Teft) and decided yes, it’s cruel. I’m quite sure I don’t want to go on reading your reactions, though I’m not sure if I can resist for more than a few minutes.
I think I hate you.
Haha, I love you… and hate you…
Thanks for this Alice/Wetlander!
This was so cruel, yet so… good! I can almost envision you (Carl and Peter, too) as the stereotypical evil mastermind: with that evil gleam in your eye, as you stroke your cat and monologue for us, concluding it all with an evil laugh! :-)
This was fun! I’m glad Peter/Brandon and Tor allowed you to do this!
I also really like your idea to not release the follow-up to this post until a week after the release. That way, we’ll have the chance to have already finished the book and be able to respond almost immediately to your post.
Hmm. For one of those Amaram or Sadeas seem to be the likely answer, to (too? How could I read so much and never learn basic grammer?) likely perhaps.
Maybe Gaz? I wouldn’t mind seeing more of him.
Impressive work, Wet. (Cue the off-color Wet with anticipation jokes in 3…2…1…).
Very pleased to see the nice (if cruel) craftsmanship in the post.
Are these in order? Just wondering if I can refer to this as I read
Definitely not in order.
Oronis @9 – Yes, that was indeed you. Please forgive my quotation without attribution… but I really liked the way you phrased it. It’s pretty much the ultimate version of that question, which I’ve received in many different formats over the last six months.
flyleaffan @20 – Oh, blast. I meant to include the answer to that, but cut it out somewhere in the revisions.
No, these are very deliberately NOT in order. (Well, they’re in an order which I found appropriate, but not the order you’ll find them in the book.) For those who really want, I could sort them out and give you an order, though I’m not sure how much it would help. Would anyone else like that list? I could put it in a comment here, or something like that.
For everyone concerned with the cruelty… I’m seriously torn between evil glee and abject shame. For what it’s worth, there have been some very good guesses so far. And no animals were harmed in the testing of this product.
AhoyMatey @21 – No luck on that yet, eh? Rats.
I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you.
But in a good way. Grr! :P
I can’t help but wonder if Szeth is being referred to as the character you don’t like but now pity…
(Maybe that’s just because I’ve always felt sorry for him, though…)
I just gave up. Twice! I’ll write up the things I tried to give others a starting point once the book is released. I may have been off in the weeds though. Hard to tell – some people just won’t give hints. *grumble* *grumble*
Wetlander, great job. Now I want to have the book in hand even more. Did you say in your article about Beta reading that you are a stay at home mom. Maybe when that time is finished, you will find new life in writing. I will look forward to enjoying your next article. Thanks for sharing.
Intiguing!
Alethi script translators can be found in the cyberworld, so that might not be what Alice is referencing. The English versions of the pages from Navani’s notebook are available in the Coppermind on the 17th Shard website.
Well, Teft did tell Kal he had a problem being loyal.
Braid @3
“Think before he acts”…yep, should be Elkohar methinks.
well, knowing these aren’t in order makes me feel soooo much better. I was beginning to worry someone had played some cruel trick on me and sent me a forgery. Or that I was a far worse reader than I thought. Good to know!
My reflections of these “Reflections of Radiance,” spoilered since the discussion could be spoilery
1. No clue (off to a great start!)
2. Teft’s past
3. Encounter between Kaladin and Amaran
4. Dalinar’s vision, sad because of his conviction to describe the war scene and not do anything to change it
5. Either Adolin or Gas
6. Illusions? More to it?
7. A Kaladin battle scene
8. Another Shallan lie
9. Dalinar and Wit and Sadeas
10. Dalinar gives up his shardplate for something
11. A crazy interlude
12. Parshendi chapter
13. Stormform not working out (yet)
14. Kaladin defeats Amaran
15. Gas dying
16. Jasnah destroying some religious relic
17. A theory about spren or surgebinding related to Szeth
18. Sadeas
19. Yoda speech? Heh
20. Adolin (anyone else thinks he resembles Gawyn from WoT a bit too much?)
21. Shallan
22. Szeth has an honorblade
23. A drawing of a description/vision from Pattern
24. Soulcasting
25. A herald revealed (don’t know enough about the heralds to take a guess here)
26. Something about the heralds and/or sprens
27. This can’t be the Lift chapter can it?
28. Jasnah appears to have died but not 100% confirmed (ala Moraine)
Don’t have any good ideas beyond this point :P
*Edit: Oh the reflections aren’t in any chronological order? I thought they were. Bleh, gonna have to revisit a lot of these then.
It was so fun reading this and trying to match your reactions to their corresponding scenes.
I still remember reading one night late in bed when–in the span of three pages–I went from screaming, punching my husband (who had JUST fallen asleep), and shouting with glee, to nearly throwing my computer across the room. I’m sure you know which scene I am talking about. :)
Great job torturing all the fans!
@Wet
I’d *love* to have these in order. Would you be kind enough to post them in chronological order?
Bill @27 – So have you decrypted that beast yet? Or figured out anything resembling a key? *sigh*
Yogdog @28 – As long as you’re not making assertions based on early-release materials, there’s no need to white it out. #27 is the only one that might qualify, and you didn’t give any details, so no one can really call shenanigans on that either. :) Thanks, though! There are some good guesses in there.
Kelly @29 – Three pages? Hmm. I have several ideas. :) Will have to check and see which one happens that fast.
(Pity the poor, traumatized husbands who had to put up with us!)
Mooglefrooglian @30 – At some point I’ll provide an “in-the-book order” for these, though it will be a good bit closer to release day. Might even be after – I don’t want to make it too easy. ::mwahahaha::
Actually, I just know it will be several days before I can possibly put that together. I didn’t collect them in order, so I’m in the process of going back through and documenting page and chapter.
Sorry to tell you guys…but Dumbledore dies.
Would putting these in chronological order really make it too easy? I think it would be a reasonable enough clue to give! :P
I don’t remember off hand if Leigh’s previews were neatly in order, but even if they were that definitely didn’t make it any less of a torment. I still have mental scars to prove it.
Something I’ve noticed from reading the comments: All the Beta readers appear to recognize exactly which scenes have been listed, which makes me think that all these scenes must be the most dramatic and recognizable ones in the book. All 34 of them! I’m so excited!
Yogdog @33 – No, Leigh also deliberately mixed up the order. Just because, you know, we can. The worst thing about chronological order is that if you get one wrong, it twists you all up for the rest of them.
I think for the beta/gamma readers, some of these should be pretty obvious – especially for the beta readers in places where I quoted directly from my own inputs. Some of them, though, are very personal reactions, and not everyone felt the same way I did. I’ll be very, very interested to see if anyone (besides Peter and AhoyMatey, who already know) guesses correctly on the last one. I did try to include things that I just really enjoyed, even if they weren’t Major Events, though.
Wow. He was right after all. I still don’t like him, but now I pity him. So many questions answered in two short sentences.
Gaz about being watched. (or maybe Elhokar)
I rather like these folks. They’re funny and intelligent.
An interlude about some country we haven’t seen yet.
Well, he seems to have unexpected depths… And so much for unexpected depths. But I’m glad he died a soldier. That actually made me tear up: “You were a fine way to ____________.”
(I never, ever would have expected to cry for him.)
Amaram?
Part of me wants to shriek that this is NOT the same man we’ve seen before … but at the same time, I love it. He has actual, multiple layers (as he should, being who he is) but this particular layer completely took me by surprise. I never expected that he would—or even could—make a decision like this. Stunning.
Taravangian?
Lying in wait for grass.
The trader’s apprentice who visited Shinovar.
Cruelly well done, Alice…brava!
I notice that you said “there have been some very good guesses”, not person X is correct about reaction Y.
Peter’s not the only one who’s practicing Aes Sedai answers ;)
Jeremy @37 – You noticed that, did you? ;)
@27, Bill, must you tease us with the fact, that you as well are in possession of an advance copy of WoR?
The staff of TOR and it’s bloggers are so … cruel.
Proposal to TOR: you should consider to extend the “distribution” of advance copies to the commenters as well ;)
I hope we get to see the rest of your reactions, and what they were in reaction to, Wetlander. Very much enjoyed your post!
Most of these still seem murky to me, but I think Elhokar was the one that was right and to be pitied, and Gaz is the one with unexpected depths who dies a soldier. Who knows? Mostly I just can’t wait to find out.
I second travyl @39, commenters should be appointed delta readers.
travyl@39
I was going to keep it to myself that I’d read it, recongizing the inherent cruelty, but then I was feeling so relieved after learning that these were out of order, I couldn’t help reacting. I was seriously beginning to doubt my literacy . . .
I’m not sure Tor will go for sending out a copy to each commentator, but I say next time you all ask for a chapter apiece, and a forum where you can piece it all together–that would be fun to see!
@39 – I’ve been praying for a distribution error that results in my hardcover being shipped early….. sigh…. I can dream right???
@42 – It has been known to happen… IIRC one time (one only, unfortunately) there was a shipping glitch that resulted in my book arriving on Friday instead of the following Tuesday. It was sweet. :)
@43 – I’ve heard stories of such occurances, but never experienced it first hand. At the very least, I will be able to download the ebook at (hopefully) midnight. I’m one of those people that has to have the hardcover version for my bookshelf, but also the ebook version for convenience.
I have no words. I’m sitting here shuddering. I’m going to keep reading now…
(roll over for possible spoilers from Glimpses of Radiance)
From Glimpses.
“Dalinar knelt beneath a fracturing sky, holding his son.”
Don’t even know the context yet, and I’m shuddering. If this is the death of Renarin or Adolin, Tor gave us to much. :(
Edit: Can someone white me out. Tried, but did not work. Sorry.
Could you number the list instead of bulleting it? It’d be a bit easier to evaluate guesses.
rccampbe – Let me check with the PTB. I originally had it numbered; maybe I can switch it back. Not sure.
Wet
After reading your post (#437) on the Glimpses Discussion Thread, I am changing my initial guess to
“Oh, my. Ohmyohmyohmyohmy.” or “Even the second and third time through, this moves me to tears.”
But my #1 guess is “I found it quite painful to read this—his mind flickering between the little flashes of memory, the battle going on around him… and then “Move. Grieve later. Move!”—to the reader, almost as much as to the character—you can’t stop here! And I loved his obedience to his own command. (I was disagreeing with other beta readers here, some of whom felt that we didn’t know enough for this to hurt as much as it should. Obviously I felt I did…)
Probably too many guesses. I will eventually get one right through sheer volume. :)
Oh, Teft. You make me so sad. So very, very sad.
– after Teft does something to harm himself/take himself away from Kaladin because he’s afraid he will betray/fail Kal even worse if he stays.
Funniest line in fantasy: I look forward to finding this one and comparing it to the likes of Tehol and Bugg, my favorite sources of humor in fantasy (Malazan).
Thanks for so much, Alice. I really look forward to reading this book next week!
Hey, all. Just letting you know (if you care) that I’m mostly offline this week. I should be back in touch Thursday or Friday.
@51 – too occupied reading your fan mail???? Hmmm.
Spoiler Free my butt! I had to stop reading your “spoiler-free” review about 1/3 of the way in.
@51 – Family matters….
@53 – Really, it’s spoiler free. Peter Ahlstrom checked it first to make sure.
I haven’t figured out how to edit the original post yet (sorry…) but if you’ve copied and numbered them for yourself, here’s a quick “hint” for you.
Numbers 13, 17, 23 and 28 are in Part One.
Numbers 5, 8, 11, 14, 15, 18, 25, 30, and 34 are in Part Two.
Does that help any? :)
Also: come next Tuesday, any and all spoilers are fair. I’ll post a big bright notice to that effect if I can.
whoaaa, i was 1st on the hold list in my public library for Words of Radiance, and somehow I got an e-mail notice today that this
is ready for pickup at my library already! it’s closed today, but I’m going to pick it up tomorrow!!!
SCORE! :)
We are SPOILER-FREE NO MORE!
Words of Radiance is OUT!! Spoil away, my friends, spoil away.
just finished the book ! completed it in 9 hrs! just one word- AWESOME
@wet NO don’t spoil! Some of us won’t get the book for another couple of days you know!
Only to allow guessing in THIS thread, as opposed to loading up the entire spoiler thread. Not all threads will be opened wide, but that was always the plan for this one. I don’t know how Carl wants to handle the Glimpses thread.
Now that the book is out, will we ever see a key to match your reactions to the scenes?
Additionally, I would LOVE to see more of the original reactions spreadsheet!
Lomeon @63 – Absolutely! The key should come out next week, I think, to give people time to read the book and see if they can figure out what I was talking about. I have that post written up with chapter and page references, and sometimes a little more explanation of why I reacted the way I did.
The spreadsheet is not mine to share, and some of it is necessarily not available for public consumption, so I can’t speak to that. Peter may comment, if he has time to check in here in the whirlwind of release day. Maybe at some point they’d be willing to post a single page just to give you an idea of what our flailing around looked like. Or not, I don’t know. It would take almost as long to read the whole spreadsheet as it does to read the book. :)
So, I can make a few more educated guesses, now: The decoding seems to be the epigraph from the Diagram that is entirely numbers, not even dates (aside: I’d guess the dates were… highstorms, possibly?), and “never expected to cry for him” almost certainly refers to Bluth.
And the “Move. Grieve Later. Move!” was obviously the scene when Adolin loses Sureblood (which, by the way, also included the terrifying Glimpse that seemed to indicate Renarin was down – I can’t recall the last time I’ve been so happy to be wrong). At the risk of offending people, while I can understand why Adolin would be upset at the loss of his trusty steed, I didn’t care all that much. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I don’t like animals, and I believe we should avoid being needlessly cruel to them, I just care a whole lot more about people. Perhaps my relief that it wasn’t Renarin overhwhelmed my capacity to care about the horse.
And, after seeing all the different returns (and one Returned, heh), my guess would be that you were referring to Syl’s return being brilliant – after all, nobody else comes back as a legendary weapon, of all things. Also: Shardspear – so freaking awesome.
Jeremy – Yes, the dates were highstorms. Anyone who has that urge to set up a timeline can do some figuring with those and get a pretty good chronology going. And yes, the decoding was the Ch. 84 epigraph. 17thShard is working on it, but I don’t think they’ve made much progress yet. I haven’t checked for a while, though.
I hadn’t thought about that – the relief that it wasn’t Renarin (from the Glimpses) might lessen the impact of Sureblood. I didn’t have that to deal with.
About the “return” – that wasn’t the best choice of words, but anything better would have been too much of a giveaway for a spoiler-free setting. It wasn’t Syl, though. :)
Well, three out of four ain’t bad :)
Now to start my re-read and see how much else I can figure out.
After correlating with the the post @55 for part numbers:
#8 – Shallan being introduced to Kaladin as a Horneater – priceless, hilarious, good potential (that was realized) for future encounters.
#10 – Dalinar, bonding the Stormfather as his own personal spren. Go big or go home, I guess :)
#30 – Kaladin’s riding training, methinks
And, that’s about all I got. Now I’m really going back to the book.
Jeremy – 2 out of 3, this time. You’re doing well. :)
“Go big or go home.” ::gigglesnort::
“_______ dying (sad face)—he died well, but how terrifying that death would have been”
Roion getting sky-Lashed from Szeth, I assume.
Oh, Teft. You make me so sad. So very, very sad.
Obviously his family’s story.
Dalinar, no! No, no, NO! Oh, wait… … … What? Really? BAHAHAhahahahahah! Oh, yeah!
Szeth throwing Dalinar into the sky and Kadin arriving.
I rather like these folks. They’re funny and intelligent.
Lopen’s familiy.
Oh, YES! This has been questioned so, so much. Well, it appears that our questioning was both valid and invalid—valid because it was a good question, and invalid because we simply didn’t know as much as we thought we did. Now we again get it drilled into us how very little we actually know.
(Chew on that one for a while. Neener neener.)
The nature of Shardblades.
Well, there’s one theory proven right.
(I honestly don’t remember if I thought it was valid or not, but I remember thinking that some people were too thoroughly convinced on insufficient evidence.)
Helaran killed by Kaladin.
This may be the single most hilarious line in all of fantasy. Or maybe it’s the fact that I was reading way past my bedtime last night. … … No, it’s still hilarious this morning, after rereading the conversation. Seriously, though, one of the things I adore about this scene was that it’s a moment of crazy, incongruous humor in the midst of some fairly intense stuff, and yet it still fits perfectly into what’s going on, so in a way it’s not incongruous at all.
It succeeded in eating you.
This whole chapter made me giggle. “You monster.” Lying in wait for grass. And hey—COSPLAY! That would be fun, practical and comfortable. Also “…flapping in the wind, like the Stormfather’s own ears.” ROFL!
Kaladin learns to ride.
birgit @71 – 3 out of 7. :)
I can’t place most of your reactions, but when I read this:
I immediately knew. My reaction to H. mirrors yours exactly.
Just finished WoR earlier today. It was fun trying to figure these out! Most of them I’ll have to look for on my second read, but here are a few I think I got… maybe…
Well, he seems to have unexpected depths… And so much for unexpected depths. But I’m glad he died a soldier. That actually made me tear up: “You were a fine way to ____________.” (I never, ever would have expected to cry for him.)
Bluth
Dalinar, no! No, no, NO! Oh, wait… … … What? Really? BAHAHAhahahahahah! Oh, yeah!
Lastclap
I don’t trust ________ as far as I can throw a chasmfiend, not with power like that. And just who do you think you are, dude, to decide what’s “best” for the whole storming kingdom? I have a bad feeling about this…
Moash?
Keleric @74 – You know, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. :)
@@@@@ 74 + 75
I think the middle one may be what he did just before the four armies set off.
Rob @76 – :)
:)
“Dalinar, no! No, no, NO! Oh, wait… … … What? Really? BAHAHAhahahahahah! Oh, yeah! (And there was fist-pumping.)”
Definitely the moment where he demands an apology … and it turns out he’s demanding an apology from Amaram rather than Kaladin.
“Wow. He was right after all. I still don’t like him, but now I pity him. So many questions answered in two short sentences.”
Szeth, when we learn that his “crime” was believing in the return of the Voidbringers/Radiants?
“Oh, like that’s not going to come back and bite you or anything. This whole conversation was a crazy blend of hilarity and trepidation, thinking about the probable consequences.”
Shallan stealing Kaladin’s boots?
“I really need a glyph for ambivalence. I loved so much about this chapter. That’s what was getting boring? LOL! And that reconciliation is made of win. On top of that, he believes _______, which is very insightful of him. But… I don’t trust ________ as far as I can throw a chasmfiend, not with power like that. And just who do you think youare, dude, to decide what’s “best” for the whole storming kingdom? I have a bad feeling about this…”
Sadeas???? I’m less certain about this one that some of the others.
“Well, he seems to have unexpected depths… And so much for unexpected depths. But I’m glad he died a soldier. That actually made me tear up: “You were a fine way to ____________.” (I never, ever would have expected to cry for him.)”
Bluth.
“Well, he seems to have unexpected depths… And so much for unexpected depths. But I’m glad he died a soldier. That actually made me tear up: “You were a fine way to ____________.” (I never, ever would have expected to cry for him.)”
Taravangian, during his Interlude?
“This chapter title was perfect. It gave me shivers. And it’s oddly far more effective here than it would be on the earlier chapter, which is… pretty amazing in itself.”
Red/White Carpet? Except, you said you removed reactions that came from the flashback chapters … but technically, the one where Pattern finally makes her confront her memory wasn’t a flashback chapter?
Whoops, copypasta error. The one where I guessed Taravangian was supposed to be in response to this:
“Part of me wants to shriek that this is NOT the same man we’ve seen before … but at the same time, I love it. He has actual, multiple layers (as he should, being who he is) but this particular layer completely took me by surprise. I never expected that he would—or even could—make a decision like this. Stunning.”
@Ross Newberry @1: I believe the phrase you were looking for was “I need the ability to burn Cadmium.” ;)
Not sure if this is the right thread, and maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but I don’t think the Chapter 88 epigraphs are highstorms. At least, the second-to-last date is a day off on my timeline if so. (Eshonai takes stormform on 1173/10/2/5, which is the fourth-to-last date in the epigraph; in Interlude 11 she’s held it for 15 days and a highstorm is coming in two days. So there’s a highstorm on 1173/10/6/2, which is a day earlier than the date in the epigraph.)
McKay B @79 – Good job: 4 out of 7! And at least one that no one else has caught (or at least posted) yet.
Two more guesses, both on thoughts borrowed from other beta readers:
From Bob (book-chucking) – Kaladin challenging Amaram to a duel, ruining the plan to have Adolin duel Sadeas (and consequently dampening the unabashed awesomeness of the preceeding chapter)?
From Eric (“of course there wasn’t one”) – The quote is directly taken from the Zahel interlude, so this is kind of a gimme, but for the three fill-in-the-blanks, I would have to guess Zahel, Vasher and Nightblood, respectively. (Disclaimer: I didn’t make the connection myself until reading the comments in the spoiler review).
Really wanting to see the full answer key at some point – do you have a rough idea of when that will be posted? Also, add another vote to the “please post the long version” camp :)
Well done, Jeremy! Two for two. :)
I don’t know for sure when the “answer key” will be posted, but it’s finished – and it’s the long version. The timing is up to the Tor team; I expect it won’t be long now.
@85 – Yay! 7/9 overall, now :)
Looking forward to reading the long version when it gets posted!
“I rather like these folks. They’re funny and intelligent.”
The deserters?
“This may be the single most hilarious line in all of fantasy.”
That line from Adolin to Shallan. About pooping. In armor.
“Part of me wants to shriek that this is NOT the same man we’ve seen before … but at the same time, I love it.”
Adolin sticking up for Kaladin and spending that whole time in jail?
“No. Just… no. I will not accept this.” Szeth’s final scene, where he gets creepy Nightblood. FROM NALAN. How is this justice at all?? I whited it out because this seems more spoilery than the rest.
“::stunned silence:: (Seriously. It took me several days to find anything coherent to say about this scene.)”
CHAPTER SEVEN.
“Oh, my. Ohmyohmyohmyohmy.”
The Lopen’s scene? (I literally shrieked during this scene.)
“I have no words. I’m sitting here shuddering. I’m going to keep reading now…”
The knife through the eye? (That was a little uncalled for. Actually, no, it probably wasn’t. Why do I feel worse for the killer than the killee?)
AH! It didn’t white it out like it was supposed to! Someone go fix that.
Sariah @88 – It’s okay. We’re wide open for spoilers now. :)
ditto @87 – you got 2 of 7, but one of your correct ones I don’t recall that anyone else got yet.
(And I’m with you – maybe I shouldn’t but I feel worse for the killer than the killee in that particular scene, too.)
Heh. No wonder they call her a heretic. Outrageous!
Excerpts from Jasnah’s book that Shallan reads in chapter 3.
birgit @90 – Close. Very close.
@89 Well, now that I announced it was supposed to be whited out but it’s not, I look dumb. Ha ha.
And only two huh? Wow. I was unsure of a few of those, but I thought it was more than two!
And now I’m going to sit here trying to guess which of my guesses were correct!
Sariah, keep in mind that these were reactions I had as I went along in the beta-read, so I didn’t have the whole book to choose from. That actually makes it a lot harder for you to guess some of them, because one response might be even more appropriate for a later event… And several of your guesses were actually quite good, and appropriate – just not what I was reacting to at the time I wrote it! The same is true for most of the things people guessed, really; there’s nothing that’s a real eyeroller in the comments.
Or you can just go find out the answers. The key is live!