In this ongoing series, we ask SF/F authors to recommend five books based around a common theme. These lists aren’t intended to be exhaustive, so we hope you’ll discuss and add your own suggestions in the comments!
Stories are about people. When you get to the heart of what makes a compelling narrative, the only thing that ever really makes a story resonate is fascinating characters. Watership Down? Rabbits that are people. Temeraire? A dragon that’s really a person. Basin and Range? Rocks that are… well, people. A novel with complex and believable characters and a wooden plot is a great book. A plot heavy book with wooden characters isn’t worth your time. We’re pack animals. This is why reality TV is so incredibly popular, because the noisome wretches on Jersey Shore or Duck Dynasty are PEOPLE, and we want to know what becomes of them, for good or ill.
And here’s the thing about people: they aren’t perfect. People make mistakes, frequent and horrendous mistakes. We screw up early and often and horribly. The best protagonists in all genres, fantasy included, are equally flawed, not so horribly that we want to see them burn, but enough so that we see our own errors reflected in theirs. Because if our favorite fantasy characters can fall so far and find redemption, then maybe we can too.
Here’s my top five fantasy novels with deeply-flawed, nasty, rotten, mean, horrid, and downright fascinating protagonists (in cases of series, I provide the title of the first novel):
Arlen Bales, from The Warded Man by Peter V. Brett
Arlen is your quintessential superpowered hero. He wields long lost magic for the sake of all humankind, pushing back against demons that would see civilization destroyed. But Arlen wields the power at an incredible price: his humanity. His powers put him forever outside the human race he seeks to serve.
Like Doctor Manhattan from Alan Moore’s The Watchmen, Arlen’s struggles to remain connected to the world he’s sworn to defend makes this story live.
The Warden, from Low Town by Daniel Polansky
The Warden is a mid-level criminal boss, running drugs, prostitution and theft rackets in the worst neighborhoods of his city. He’s a thief, a murderer, a pusher and a lowlife of the worst kind. But he also runs a bar with his best friend, reluctantly fosters a runaway, and still finds time to save the world.
The Warden dreams of being something more than just a thug, while still embracing the tools of his dark trade. The conflict between ends and means make the character and the book.
Jorg Ancrath, from Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence
Jorg Ancrath has suffered as few of us do. He is held captive in a patch of hookbriar and forced to watch those dearest to him slaughtered. His quest for revenge will resonate with every reader’s sense of justice, but the means by which obtains it may well make you shudder.
Sand Dan Glokta, from The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie
Glokta is an inquisitor, a professional torturer in the service of his state. A victim of torture himself, he is horribly mutilated, permanently scarred both inside and out. But Glokta is still looking to do something more than pay the world back for how he has suffered, and his quest to his suffering matter will keep you turning the pages.
Locke Lamora, from The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch
Locke Lamora is inevitably the smartest man in any given room. Unfortunately, he knows it, and puts it to use in the service of the Crooked Warden, the God of Thieves.
There’s no con too long for Lamora’s cunning, and many is the purse lightened due to his deceit. But he also proves the old adage wrong. There is honor among thieves, and seeing how Locke’s personal code pits him against the dictates of his profession really makes Lynch’s work shine.
That should be Sand dan Glokta.
I would add Thomas Covenant to the list. Self-absorbed, cynical, rapist, doesn’t even believe in the place he’s called upon to defend, and generally does almost as much harm as good. And yet he is moved by the plight of a place and people he doesn’t even think are real.
Is Locke despicable though? I don’t know if he’s left anyone destitute or starving with his cons. Though maybe I am too cavalier about the misfortunes of the fictional rich. He just seems out of place considering the other entries on the list.
Although, as a fan, I do like to see Scott Lynch’s work mentioned. Lies is an excellent heist/caper tale that everyone should read.
@1 – Agreed. Thomas Covenant is who I first thought of when I read the title of the article. It shows what a talented writer Stephen R. Donaldson is that he can take such an unlikeable character and keep the reader turning pages.
Also, shouldn’t it be “forced to watch”, not “forced to which” in the Prince of Thrones description?
@2 Noblehunter – yeah I question Locke’s inclusion as despite his “occupation” he’s really a sweet romantic with iffy morals. Everyone else on the list is pretty cold. I mean he’s also my favourite character on the list, but he doesn’t quite mesh.
#1 Agree as well. Covenant is the first character I thought of. I think that series may not be as widely read as it used to be.
I’ve read three of these books. I liked the Abercrombie books the best, because of the levity other characters demonstrated… and Sand Dan Glokta is basically Miles Vorkosigan twisted horrible… which is fascinating. Combining dispicable hero with Magnificent Bastard should be done more often.
But, for the most part, I really, really dislike Grimdark.
@5 – Definitely it isn’t. And more’s the pity; I consider The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever one of my top ten favorites of all time. I enjoyed it far more than The Blade Itself, which was not that gripping, to me.
I don’t discount your explanations and picks (though I’ll agree Locke is sort of ‘light’ for this list) but how do you account for those Mary Sue characters we all seem to love, despite ourselves?
I know Scott has talked about the problem of Locke, in that he has to take pains to make sure people realize how much of a dark and flawed character he is. Its easy, very easy, to forget.
Thomas Covenant has to be noted, of course, but you can’t forget about Angus Thermopyle. Donaldson did an even better job with him than Covenant, IMO. Pirate, rapist (much moreso than TC), kills innocents for monetary gain…but you just feel for the guy as he’s tossed around in the Gap Cycle.
Not to be that person, but here’s some food for thought: in a 50/50 world, every single person on this list (as well as the suggested additions) are male. This is not something you have to “go looking for” if you’re female; it jumps out like paisley at a funeral.
This list in particular is affected by more than just the usual underrepresentation of women; it’s a (clearly unintentional) reflection of a pervasive double-standard. Female characters are deliberately and vocally punished by readers of all genders for behaving badly. I just read in another blog not an hour ago that if Dr. House had been female he wouldn’t have been “nearly as lovable.” So reading this on the heels of that has me more than a little ruffled.
This kind of thing isn’t going to change overnight, but I hope that my comment won’t be dismissed as the shrill hysterics of a badly-behaved woman, and that it will at least provoke some sincere thought. I hope that one day fictional women will be seen as dreamy instead of bitchy when they brood, clever instead of two-faced when they lie, badass instead of psycho when they go on killing sprees. And with the strong caveat that this “badass woman” will not need to dress in a half-unzipped catsuit and spike heels, or even show the slightest hint of sexual appetite, in order to make readers comfortable with her negative emotions. If Jorg and Arlen shouldn’t have to show skin to be badass, neither should a Badass Woman.
If we as humans can’t help but find anger, brooding, and bad behavior a little bit awesome, let’s at least let a few more women into that club.
P.S. every author and character on that list is pretty awesome; I ain’t sayin’ otherwise.
@Mishell: HEAR HEAR!!!
Covenant has nothing on Angus Thermopyle. If you liked the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Read Donaldson’s Gap cycle. Thermopyle makes Covenant look like a saint.
@13 Damn right! Loved the Gap. Angus is just so…tortured.
Another vote for Donaldson here, both Covenant and Thermopyle.
Deeply flawed?
Karen Miller Godspeaker series.
And of course, the characters of K J Parker (but what would you expect from an author naming a book “Evil for Evil”).
If you stretch the definition of despicable to include Locke Lamora, Vlad Taltos has to go in there, too. He’s a crime boss who kills people for money, and even after the big changes in his life, he’s still mostly indifferent, if not downright contemptuous toward his fellow men (and elves).
He’s also one of the coolest and most likable charactersout there, which may be why he’s not on the list.
Yes, it is a bit surprising to see a list like this that does not include Thomas Covenant. But maybe it’s such a given that it’s nice to give others a spotlight.
@11, no complaints from me ;)
I would add the Hound. And Arya Stark (yeah I know this might cause some angry debate. But I maintain that she’s headed down the road to deeply flawed, though a long way from despicable quite yet)
~lakesidey
I love Locke Lamorra, but he’s not even close to being despicable. Thomas Covenant, on the other hand, is truly despicable. I’d have voted for him to top the list until all the reminders about Argus…
Yeah, I question Locke being on this list, too — but such are the things good conversations are made of!
To me (and, I suspect to Scott, given how he keeps coming up), the worst thing Locke does is what he does to the Falconer in book 1, and that keeps coming back to bite his ass again and again throughout the series. On the other hand, when I think of Locke’s character in LIES, I think of his moment of “Fuuuuu, gotta go save the noble children” as more defining.
Then again, it was pointed out to me that we mostly only ever see things from Locke’s perspective in the GB books. So of course it’s positive. Glokta, on the other hand, is mostly surrounded by people that hate him (or at least distrust him), and they almost all get viewpoints.
I like the suggestion of Vlad Taltos being on this list. I didn’t realize until I re-read the early books what a terrible guy he is. And the unreliablest of unreliable narrators…
… no, actually, I think that latter should go to Severin from Book of the New Sun. Also a terrible person.
Donaldson is certainly the king of putting his characters (and readers!) through the ringer.
R Scott Bakker’s Prince of Nothing series has some deeply unpleasant protagonists, and the Holy War has horrific consequences for the civilized world. Unfortunately in this setting, the alternatives seem worse.
But if we’re talking falling and gaining redemption …
Lloyd Alexander took his Westmark trilogy to a very dark place in The Kestrel, which was notable for a children’s book. This book explores the true nature of war and rebellion, and doesn’t pull any punches.
CJ Cherryh’s Morgaine saga has Morgaine and Nhi Vanye, who repeatedly make mistakes – with terrible consequences for the worlds they pass through.
Glen Cook has the Black Company, who start out serving Evil, and then go to extreme lengths to overthrow it. Raven in particular digs a large hole for himself by selling corpses to the wrong people at one stage. And when they start heading South, well, then we learn just what sort of history the Company really had.
And on a different note, Steven Erikson has the Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach – stories of a darkly debonair noble, his twisted and horrific companion and their long suffering manservant, whose misdeeds are told in a series of linked novellas.
Note: there is no expectation of any form of redemption – they are as bad as they seem and very contented to stay there.
Sarah Monette’s Doctrine of Labyrinths series (starts with Melusine)? Felix is sympathetic as a viewpoint character, and he tries, at least some of the time, but he is definitely flawed and often nasty.
@23, I was going to suggest Felix or maybe even Mildmay, but I think we get to see too much of why they are flawed and occasionally nasty. It’s really hard for me to despise someone when I’m thinking, “oh, you poor bastard.” And I universally like Monette’s characters even if I’m not sure I would without a reader’s privileged access to their headspace.
Angus Thermopyle. Nuff said. What a disgusting character. Then Donaldson tries to turn him into the victim. Yeahhhhh, didn’t work.
I think many, many people may disagree with this… but Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden qualifies for this list.
He’s just not written that way because he’s the narrator, and doesn’t see himself that way. His intentions are pure, at least in his own mind. He is an unreliable narrator to his own state of mind, I think.
I actually think Butcher does a masterful job writing Harry. Its surprising how dark Harry really is without people even realizing it.
How about Ari from Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh? Talk about ruthless, cruel and, while she was definitely brilliant, she wasn’t exactly perfect.
@26 Yeah, Dresden can be a real piece of work. It’d be pretty easy to describe him in terms that would get him on the list no question. I think some people do despise him, with good reason. I’m just too easily swayed by narrative intent to objectively evaluate characters based on their actions alone.
Speaking of which, I know some people would put Dumbledore on this list.
Should I even open the can of worms that is Severus Snape, haha? Yeah, I know the Harry Potter books aren’t ‘about’ him, so to speak, but he is definitely a hotly debated character (I fall on the ‘interesting/tragic yet terrible person’ side)
Also, it just occurred to me that this title could basically be a byline for the Game of Thrones series (as it currently stands), lol.
Angus and Covanent -both heck yes
Yes, need more women on the list. How about the White Prophet woman from Hobbs’ Farseer/Tawny Man? Does she count as a protagonist?
I agree with Dresden and Vlad, and Thomas Covenant was the first person I thought of when I read the title.
I would add John Taylor and Shotgun Susie from the Nightside series.
Harry Connolly’s Twenty Palaces novels, and the protagonist, Ray Lilly.
These are brilliant! I’ll have to check out The Blade Itself and Lowtown, but the other three are amazing. I’d also add Dante from The Cycle of Arawn, as well as most of the suggestions from the comments.
Terry Pratchett’s “Going Postal”, and protagonist “Moist von Lipwig”, which raises the questions about redemption, rehabilitation, forgiveness and whether any of that is truly possible. Moist is, by any standards, a reprehensible person. He’s an unrepentant con man who, for a large chunk of the book, keeps on insisting he never harmed anyone despite the mounting evidence that that simply isn’t true.
I agree that Dresden has flaws, but putting him on a despicable people list? That’s going a bit far. I can think of exactly two actions of his that I would put in the “very bad” category, both of which happened in Changes. And everyone was an absolute mess in Changes, which makes it hard to judge. Why do you think he deserves to be on a list with rapists and people who kill for personal gain?
Pretty much every character in The Windup Girl.
I had my hopes up when I saw this title illustrated by “Republic of Thieves” – not “The Lies of ….” Although I suppose in truth, by RoT Lamora isn’t so much despicable as really, really annoying.
@36 Off the top of my head, he humiliates Molly in Proven Guilty and tortures and murders ghouls in White Night. I don’t know if that rises to the level of despicable but he is nowhere near as nice a person as the pre-Ghost Story narrative tends to suggest. That was the point of Ghost Story, really.
I’d like to add a couple to the list: Cheradenine Zakalwe from Use of Weapons and Surface Detail. Iain M. Banks gave us a lot of despicable characters, come to think of it…
Also seconding those who mentioned K.J. Parker and her Engineer Trilogy. Her novels generally revolve around the consequences of flawed characters’ interactions.
I don’t actually ever think of Arlen Bales from The Warded Man as a despicable or unlikeable character; he isn’t even someone who has questionable morals. If any character in that series fits that description I would say that would be Jardir.
It is fairly clear the author has not read The Demon Cycle.
@26, 28, 36
One of my favourite m0ments from the Dresden Files is in Turn Coat, when Harry realises exactly what sort of rep he really has :
They were dealing with something far more dangerous than me, Harry Dresden, whose battered old Volkswagen was currently in the city impound. They were dealing with the potential demonic dark lord nightmare warlock they’d been busy fearing since I turned sixteen. They were dealing with the wizard who had faced the Heirs of Kemmler riding a zombie dinosaur, and emerged victorious from a fight that had flattened Morgan and Captain Luccio before they had even reached it. They were dealing with the man who had dropped a challenge to the entire Senior Council, and who had then actually showed, apparently willing to fight—on the shores of an entirely too creepy island in the middle of a freshwater sea.
@Mayhem
Are there actually any characters in Bakkers books that are NOT sociopaths or traumatized victims? I cant remember any, and it is what made give up on his series…
Great list. I’ve read all but number two, and I agree. Each character is very different, very captivating, very… grey. In each there is bad and good, and in the case of Jorg of Ancrath, more bad than good? Who can say for sure, eh?
All my favorite books/series/authors made the list, as I’ve read all those except The Warded Man.
Lucky for me I picked up the Kindle edition on sale not long ago but had not decided to read it yet. Now I’ll have to make it so.
@11 – Mishell, that is exactly what I thought about this article. You nailed right on the head. I’m glad I’m not the only one who read through this list hoping to see which despicable character was written by a woman.
I have to admit I don’t read a lot of books written by male authors because I’m tired of how women are depicted in them. They are often victimised or in need of rescuing. It becomes tiresome very quickly.
I understand that not all articles will relate to my taste in books but it would be nice to have a brother view on this subject since I find it interesting. So if you have any recommendation, I’d love to hear them.
John Creedmoor in The Half-Made World. Ok, he kinds of redeems himself, and he kinds of was “forced out of retirement”, but it is clear he was basically a murderous asshole with delusions, as all Agents of the Gun are, that kinda grew out of it.
And in The Rise of Ransom City we see he may have left that behind, but not to become precisely a nice person; he was nicer (in a completly unthrustworthy and dangerous way) before
I echo many of the above – I clicked on this article solely because I felt sure it would include Thomas Covenant (and more Thomas Covenant discussion is something I’m always searching for). I read all the Thomas Covenant books for the first time a few years ago (on the recommendation of my mum, who has loved them since her teenage years) and they very quickly cemented themselves as my all-time favourite books.
Having a ‘hero’ who is anything but was really refreshing to me at the time, and the way Stephen Donaldson writes everything just pulls me right in. I generally take against the lead characters/heroes in everything for being so perfect (even in their humble self doubt and grave errors that end up as a painful yet valuable lesson on their journey), so since such a thing could never be said about Covenant, it makes for a much more interesting read. Also, the whole theme of his unbelief really resonated with me at the time and it was really interesting to examine how he reacted to such things.
Also, I love Linden.
Mishell @@@@@ 11 – In my Covenant haze, I didn’t notice that until you pointed it out, at which point it becomes blindingly obvious. Certainly, there’s something more acceptable about deeply flawed despicable male characters than deeply flawed despicable female characters. (I’m thinking Wheel of Time here, because it’s Reread day so it’s on my mind, and how many characters have flaws but it’s generally the women who are disliked for their flaws, not the men – though you could never call any main character in WoT despicable, I don’t think). I would very much love to read about some despicable females, because that also would be rather refreshing – I’m taking note of the ones mentioned.
I intend to read the Gap Cycle when I’ve got through my current pile of books, but as it’s only ever been described to me as, basically, something really good but really horrible, I do keep putting it off… The Warded Man (or The Painted Man as it seems to be in the UK) has also been added to my list.
The only potentially despicable anti-hero woman I can think of is mid-series Anita Blake. I haven’t read much past that point since the focus of the series shift away from plot but by that point she’s murdered several people and tortured at least one. Maybe other urban fantasy will be fertile ground?
Murphy from the Dresden Files has entered dangerous territory since Changes, but she just got a rather nasty wake-up call. No telling what decisions she’ll make going forward.
What about Jasnah from the Stormlight Archives (more in Way of Kings than Words of Radiance)? She seemed pretty willing to kill people out of hand. If Locke’s going to be on the list, Shallan might work, too.
@36:
First of all, you don’t have to be a rapist to be a bad, bad dude. There is a way to read Harry (a way in which he doesn’t read himself, and those closest to him are sometimes blind to… but also sometimes questions) in which he is in the grip of Power Acquisition Syndrome. Where his true motives have nothing at all to do with altruism (altruism instead being the method he uses to justify his actions), but more to do with the “personal gain” of being powerful enough to protect himself from the monsters that informs his adolesence. He hasn’t willingly sacrificed his sense of morality the way Sand Dan Glocta has to achieve this… yet… so lets call him a “proto” on this list. Someone who is well on his way to being someone worthy of this list.
His character reminds me a bit of Raistilin in the Dragonlance series. That’s the path Harry is on. He may end up becoming a monster to fight the monsters… he may ALREADY have become a monster, and just doesn’t realize it yet. But I tend to think he’s still on the precipice.
Chloe2246 @@@@@ 52 – I didn’t read Mishell’s comment in that way (although maybe I was reading wrong). My view is that it’s not the author of the article who’s at fault here, it’s just a general problem that there aren’t enough widely appreciated deeply flawed despicable female characters, which is a bit of an inbalance. If those characters existed in similar numbers to their male counterparts and they were written well enough and appreciated by their audience, then the above list wouldn’t be just male characters. The fact that it is highlights the lack of such female characters generally in fiction, or the general audiences different receptions to such characters – to note the lack of female characters on the list is not a criticism of the writer or a demand for fulfilment of some kind of quota.
By realising this and highlighting it, it hopefully means that eventually more of these kind of characters will appear. (Since not everyone who cares and comments is going to be able to write their own wonderful work of fiction featuring just such a character – nor would they get it published if perceptions aren’t changed enough to make it acceptable to the masses.)
EDIT: Okay, so 52 disappeared…
Comment @52 unpublished by moderator; let’s keep the discussion on point, and avoid personal attacks. Feel free to disagree with other commenters, but we ask that you do so in a respectful and civil manner, in accordance with the site’s moderation policy. Thanks.
Edit: sorry for the delayed/double posting; having some connectivity issues here in Blizzardland.
Axis Rivkahson Sunsoar, from Sara Douglass’ Wayfarer Redemption.
@56:
Oh, absolutely.
As far as the other discussion…
Catwoman is frequently played as sympathetic, but almost never played as a protagonist. There are many, many examples of dispicable yet sympathetic femme fetales, but they are almost always a contagonist, or otherwise blocking the protagonist, not themselves the protagonist.
Good points. I think it has more to do with a sort of all or nothing view of women in our culture. If you are going to be viewed as a hero, you better be darn perfect if you want to play in that club. It may be one of the reasons that motherhood iteself is viewed the way it is.
The first female like this who jumps to mind, for me, is Lady from the Black Company. Definitely despicable, dark, cruel…but damn, if she isn’t my favorite character despite it all.
@57 That wankstain(literally, an angelic wankstain!) from The Crucible Series ranks right up there too. But at least everyone seems to acknowledge what a terrible individual he was.
The more people told me how great Axis was, the harder and harder it became to see him that way. At least the second trilogy overcame most of that.
@59
Lady definitely works – even when on the side of the heroes, she’s a long way from good.
how about Inevera from The Daylight War, she’s definitely a little morally ambiguous. Actually I quite like that all of the protagonists in that series are somewhat morally compromised. Makes them much more human.
I guess Felisin Paran from the Malazan series might be considered. Or Lady Envy.
As many have mentioned, Stephen R Donaldson does this. I love his books, but a fair description of the TC series is “A diseased child rapist and a murderess fight the Devil.” You gotta give the disclaimer up front when you recommend them.
Daniel Abraham’s characters (long price quartet, the dagger and the coin) also frequently make me cast a hairy eyeball at the protags, but the villains are invariably much worse, so it works.
@11 I’m always waiting for that person on a TOR comments page. Seems to be a common theme on this site, you did not dissapoint Misha.
I’m surprised that everyone missed “Monza Murcatto” from Best Served Cold. She‘s quite dispicable, lacking mercy, ruthless, but likeable….
She‘s a bad ass mofo.
Agree with @53 but there are some… perhaps not with the same criteria as some of the men above. It takes a skilled writer to create this type of character, and not fall into the same “tropes”. Abercrombie is a master at it.
Yes, i was thinking Monza too. And all of her crew (though mileage may vary on feeling any sympathy for them…), two of whom are women too and seriously despicable. Yet you cheer for them to win.
In Erikson I’d say Kilava, she did a lot of horrible things, usually with noble motives. You’ll find a few more of this type of female heroes in the Greek tragedies.
John Constantine from Hellblazer — if we accept comics as literature.
Gerald Tarrant from C.S. Friedman’s Coldfire trilogy — at least in the beginning.
Thomas Covenant was actually so dislikeable to me that I couldn’t finish the first book. And that sort of defeats the purpose… I like my bastards to be at least a little bit magnificent.
I think it’s harder to write a deeply flawed / despicable female protagonist, at least in our culture. I know I’ve read some short stories that feature flawed women in other cultures, but I can’t quite remember where. Still, it’s an interesting point and one I hadn’t considered.
I’m right in the middle of reading the Dresden Files for the first time (only two books left), and I can’t agree that Harry would belong on this list. Intent matters. I know he’s not the most reliable of narrators, but he knows where the line is and tries not to cross it. He’s failed a time or two, but that doesn’t make him despicable. To me the flawed/despicable protagnists are characters who live on the other side of that line. Who know they’re doing evil and don’t really care. They may end up serving the greater good in the end, but it’s not what drives them. Sometimes Harry has to choose the lesser of two evils, but he does try to measure those evils to know which one is greater.
@29: Being most of the way through my annual Harry Potter reread, I think Snape fits the bill perfectly, though the level of dispicableness perhaps doesn’t reach the level of some of the other characters listed. Every time I read the series I’m surprised how many people like him – I think he’s objectively an aweful human being, not to mention an aweful teacher. And yet, the heartstrings…
Talking about despicable yet fascinating female protagonists, it’s hard to go past Felice Landry from Julian May’s Saga of the Exiles.
Felice is deeply twisted, enormously talented, and both malevolent and ambitious. And yet she manages to control herself sufficiently to be one of the good guys. For a while, at least.
Like Donaldson’s work, this series (recently re-released) deserves more attention. If you’re interested in strong female characters, there are plenty available here, of all types.
Seems to me that about half of the cast of the Thieves’ World series should have gotten at least a passing mention.
@69, I am in complete agreeance with regard to the Pliocene Saga books, as well as Thomas Covenant (both series I read in my teen years and were a great impact at the time).
A couple of others come to mind that haven’t been mentioned: Nicholas Seafort from David Feintuch’s Midshipman books, and Fitz from Robin Hobb’s Farseer trilogy. Both were flawed and tortured characters who were able to rise above themselves and make a difference.
What about Skeen from the Skeen’s Leap trilogy by Jo Clayton? She’s so energetic and full of competence-fu you keep forgetting that she’s stealing stuff from people who would probably like to keep it.
And oh, yes, Snape. Astounding how many people think he deserved being tortured and almost killed by the Marauders because he was MEAN to HARRY! (Cause and effect is not their strong point). And yeah, he sucked as a teacher (unless you were, you know, like actually paying attention and working in class). Let’s not forget being a teacher wasn’t his idea.
Also, I have to go with Anita Blake–the later version is too ewww for me to read any more, not even library. And yet the earlier version is still fascinating. Go figure.
And I loves me my Locke Lamora. I was hoping to see an equally strong character in Sabetha, but alas, I saw only one scene in Republic where she really came alive (where she explained why she had to dye her hair).
@33 Jakk: Harry Connolly never gets enough love for my taste, but I’d honestly tend to put Ray in the “flawed but well-meaning” category. His boss, on the other hand… Annalise Powliss is a terrifying, conscience-free badass. (Who’s always fully and unattractively clothed, BTW) And yet, because she’s going up against Cthulian horrors from beyond space that would be perfectly happy to destroy all life on the planet if they could just get in, her perspective is kinda justifiable, and occasionally more than a touch seductive. There were places in the books where I was screaming for Ray to be less of a pansy and go along with her. :)
To the ongoing TDF discussion: I love me some Harry Dresden. (I mean, I’m really unhealthily attached to the character, when you come right down to it.) But the fact is, when an entire species of bloodsucking monsters call you a war criminal–and are arguably justified in doing so–you just might have some glitches in your moral GPS. It’s all a matter of perspective.
And yes, @72, I was so disappointed when we finally met Sabetha for more than a flash. She just didn’t measure up to the complexity and realism of the main characters. And the end of RoT? *Eyeroll*
Okay, one more unconnected comment: I know it’s not even a touch genre, but if you’re looking for a deeply-flawed despicable female protagonist, you can hardly do better than Scarlett O’Hara. I only read Gone With the Wind for the first time a couple of years ago, and even though it’s nothing like my usual sort of read, I could hardly put it down for the sheer fascination of her. (Not just whiny and useless like clips from the movie make her seem either. She’s incredibly strong, just in quite twisted ways.)
Malcolm L @@@@@ 69 – Every time I come across anything related to the Saga of the Exiles, I feel… Okay, I cannot describe my feeling, but it is strong and thoughts come and won’t go and they haunt me… There are few books I have such a visceral reaction to (the other is Sophia McDougall’s Romanitas series – ooh, her Una could be fairly despicable too, perhaps) and few books that I can’t complete, but I just can’t bring myself to read the fourth book in this series. You’re right that Felice is a perfect example, but I did not consider Felice when commenting earlier because I generally attempt to completely block all thoughts of this series – it makes me so sad…
My mum recommended I read these books after I finished Thomas Covenant, and I really enjoyed them all round (to start). Felice and Amerie were far and away my favourite characters, though – Amerie I couldn’t help but like and, as with Covenant and Linden, I am often drawn to characters like Felice. I hoped and hoped and hoped for Felice, through all her despicableness… And then that scene in book 3. I read it late at night. I was totally horrified. Completing the book did not ease my horror and I just couldn’t continue…
I don’t want to say more because I’d be going off on a complete tangent, and I don’t want to spoil it for any who might read it. (Obviusly, I’m selling it really well…) But I have so many thoughts about Felice, and Amerie, and I have nowhere to vent them (never having found it mentioned anywhere, really, before now – I began to think no one else had read them!), which means I’ve really never got over what happened.
So in conclusion, yes, Felice is a perfect example of a despicable female lead character. She’s really twisted and does some really horrible things, but you always feel for her and can always see her struggling to break out of all that (hence Amerie). But the books, specifically Felice, bring up a bunch of other issues that really bother me.
So please, everyone, read Julian May so there’ll be somewhere for me to talk about it! (Or someone tell me where I can find catharsis…)
I’d recommend the character Nyx from Kameron Hurley’s God’s War series. Seriously flawed, but very engaging.
From the Dragonlance series, I loved Raistlin and Kitiara, who were fighting for Queen of Evil Takhisis.
I’m not sure The Woman in White counts, but whoa! What a nemesis Count Fosco was…he was FAR more interesting than the pale protagonists.
Many of Michael Moorcock’s Eternal Champions could be counted among this list. Some of them committed genocide against the people who “hired” them. But they were all so fascinating.
Victor from Vicious qualifies I think. So do Jaime and Cersai from Game of Thrones. The Dresden Files is a good source, having both Harry and Karrin.
What, no love for Takeshi Kovacs? Guy’s a right bastard, but so, so much fun to read about.
Seconding Cheradenine Zakalwe, and KJ Parker, especially Bardas in The Fencer triloogy. The mentions of Robin Hobb – Captain Kennit must be the most despicable and flawed person in that universe, surely?
Angus Thermopile for the win!
No mention of Severian, from Wolfe’s BotNS? Or Vance’s Cugel the Clever?
Mallory Ringess from Neverness by David Zindell is another character, deeply flawed. Zindell’s style and scope in his writing, and the complex characters (Mallory is only the most prominent) make for deep but enjoyable reading.
A lot of these suggestions have redeeming qualities, and therefore it’s difficult to despise them
Cersei Lannister definitely counts as do a few other characters in ASOIAF: Ramsay Bolton, Joffrey Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, Gregor Clegan, Walder Frey. All of whom are far more Despicable than Arya, or the Hound.
I’d suggest Andross Guile, Grinwoody and Zemun from Brent Weeks’ Lightbringer books.
What about supporting baddies? Too often, we focus on Grand Moff Tarkin and Mad King Aerys and forget that they couldn’t do anything by themselves. Behind every vicious tyrant is an army of people who aren’t particularly interested in kicking puppies themselves but willing to go along with awfulness for their own reasons. Who’s the most interesting, sympathetic supporting character who makes the evil overlord’s reign possible?
I agree with Myke Cole, but am willing to add some of his characters as well. The Elric series by Michael Moorcock.
Gully Foyle, The Stars My Destination. Absolutely wretched person.