Thanks to the various casting news updates, set photos, teasers, and trailers released by HBO over the last several months, it’s become abundantly clear that the coming season of Game of Thrones is going to be diverging from its source material in the Song of Ice and Fire novels to a greater degree than ever before.
With the premiere of Season Five just a few weeks away, let’s pour out some Dornish red, roll up our heavily-embroidered sleeves and take stock of some of the biggest changes in store for fans of the series: which characters we won’t be seeing, which plotlines have been significantly altered or expedited, and which unexpected pairings and new partnerships we’ll be following as the show pushes forward into unfamiliar territory….
Warning: Spoilers for all of the novels and seasons 1-4 of the HBO series.
I’m Not Dead! I’m Getting Better! I Don’t Want To Go On The Cart! (You’re Not Fooling Anyone, You Know.)
First up, let’s take a quick survey of which dead/semi-dead/mostly dead characters will be putting in an appearance in Season Five. While I’d be extremely surprised to see Sandor Clegane reappearing at any point this season, as far as I know, no one on the show has confirmed that we’ll never see or hear from The Hound again, so…there’s still hope that he hobbled away from the bottom of that cliff somehow, maybe? It’s a much better bet that we’ll soon be encountering The Mountain again (or at least the Gregorstein version of the elder Clegane) when Cersei’s new champion, Ser Robert Strong, is introduced upon her forced atonement and return to the Red Keep. (Actor Hafthor Bjornsson was also spotted in Belfast while the show was filming there, so the odds are good that the show isn’t done with Gregor quite yet.)
Catelyn Stark, on the other hand, is gone for good: there don’t seem to be any plans to feature Lady Stoneheart on the series…which is good news for Brienne and Pod, at least? (Although I’m sure they won’t stay out of trouble for long.) In the absence of UnCat’s violent quest for retribution, though, maybe the show will provide some balance by having Sansa step into a more active role? It’s possible that the brief scene in the trailer in which Littlefinger tells Sansa to “Avenge them.” might point toward a darker, payback-driven plotline for the elder Stark daughter. Sansa’s storyline will clearly be moving beyond the events covered by the books, so it might be interesting to see her put her own spin on the thirst for vengeance that drives Catelyn/Lady S. (not to mention Arya) in the novels—one that’s more calculating, less blind rage, but still deadly.
Taking the Express Lane Toward A Lannister-Targaryen Alliance
Tyrion and Daenerys don’t appear in A Feast For Crows…and when they finally reappear in A Dance with Dragons, it’s pretty slow going, to put it mildly. Dany’s angstily playing politics in Meereen while engaged in a squicky, ill-advised affair with the smarmy Daario Naharis. She’s got 99 problems, most of which involve killer dragons, slavery, continuous revolt, and (eventually) hostile Dothraki. Meanwhile, Tyrion goes on a dark, depressing, and seemingly endless eastward journey that doesn’t quite pan out the way he’d hoped. It’s like George R.R. Martin read all the sad, dank, boring camping sequences in the last Harry Potter book, and walked away thinking, “My next novel needs more of THAT. I’m going to sidetrack the shit out of these guys for a few zillion chapters.”
Happily, these plodding plots seem to have been sped up quite a bit on the show, with set photos showing Tyrion and Daenerys together in Meereen (possibly watching Ser Jorah fighting for his life, gladiator-style, in the pits…) In the trailer, it also looks as if Dany and her entourage end up in the fighting pit with Jorah, surrounded by hostile soldiers, which is an interesting twist on the way events play out in the books….
Varys Takes A Holiday
At the end of Season Four, we saw Varys jumping ship (along with a crateful of freshly-escaped Imp), fleeing King’s Landing just as the bells began tolling for Tywin Lannister. According to the trailer, it looks as if they may have hightailed it to Pentos, arriving at Varys’ former partner-in-crime Illyrio Mopatis’s digs (where Tyrion resurfaced alone in the books after fleeing Westeros). A later shot from the trailer shows Varys and Tyrion in an alley in what appears to be a different city—possibly Meereen? Regardless of where he ends up, spending more time with Varys can only be a good thing, as far as I’m concerned, thanks to Conleth Hill’s consistently amazing performance (and facial expressions.)
In the books, of course, Varys completely disappears from King’s Landing following Tyrion’s escape, only reappearing out of nowhere toward the end of ADwD to murder poor Kevan Lannister, explaining that Kevan’s level-headed attempts to rein in Cersei’s crazy stand in the way of his ultimate goals: to play the Lannisters and Tyrells against each other so that Aegon Targaryen can swoop in and claim the throne (more on that plotline in a moment). Speaking of Kevan, Ian Gelder is slated to resume his role in Season Five, with rumors suggesting that he will show up later in the season, possibly around the time that Cersei is forced to suffer through her infamous Walk of Shame.
Griff-less: Jon Connington and Aegon Targaryen Have Been Kicked To The Curb
These also-rans probably won’t appear, at least not this season—they haven’t been cast, and won’t factor in the Tyrion/Daenerys plots at all—but can the show really just get rid of these guys completely? With the continued reports that HBO would like to extend Game of Thrones to ten seasons, perhaps the revelation of a male Targaryen heir could serve as a way to extend the struggle for the throne past the initial struggles between Lannister, Tyrell, and Stark. According to the books, Aegon was thought by many to be the fabled “the prince that was promised”—his conception was even marked by the appearance of a fancy comet and everything!—and according to the rules of succession, he would displace his aunt Daenerys in line for the Iron Throne.
On the other hand, most people believe that Aegon was murdered as an infant on the order of Tywin Lannister, which is why Connington would have preferred to bolster young Aegon’s claim through marriage to Daenerys. In ADwD, however, Aegon and the Golden Company grow tired of waiting on Dany and mount a fierce (albeit dragonless) invasion of Westeros, which is where we see them last. Snipping Aegon and Connington out of the story entirely simplifies matters (and saves the smallfolk of Westeros from yet another contender for the throne rampaging through their lands), but it also cuts out a major Dornish angle, given that Aegon’s mother was Elia Martell, sister to Oberyn and Doran. Her death (and that of her children) is the source of the intense, long-festering hatred toward the Baratheons and Lannisters among the Dornish nobles, which I’m sure we’ll hear plenty about given this season’s prominent focus on Dorne and the Martells…
Jaime Lannister and Bronn Go Road-Trippin’ in Dorne, or, Welcome to Season Five: We Hope You Like Sand!
So, instead of lifting the siege at Riverrun, Jaime and his sparring partner/new bestie Bronn are apparently heading down to Dorne for sun and fun with the Sand Snakes. I’m fine with that (although I’ll miss The Blackfish. That guy is awesome. Maybe we’ll catch up with him in Season Six or one of the extra three seasons HBO wants to tack on…or maybe not.) In any case, the writers certainly seem to be foregrounding the Dornish plotline—I’m guessing Jaime’s there to bring back his daughter-niece Myrcella, and having a few familiar faces around should help ease non-book-savvy readers into the world of Ellaria Sand (who we met last season), Doran Martell, Areo Hotah, and the Sand Snakes.
I’ve also heard/read a few theories suggesting that the writers might be seeding elements of Arys Oakheart’s storyline into Jaime’s, mixing him up with the seductive Sands Snakes in place of Arianne (the trailer does show him having a moment with Tyene, but she’s so not his type: she’s not blonde, they don’t share a birthday…or even a gene pool. C’mon.) The show also seems to have dispensed with Quentyn Martell and Gerold “I am of the night” Dayne (a.k.a. “Darkstar,” “Stabby McFaceslasher”) but Doran’s youngest son Trystane will factor into this season, and it’s looking like the show will be spending some time on the relationship between Trystane and Myrcella, so that could be interesting… The Dornish rules of succession would place Myrcella on the Iron Throne ahead of her brother Tommen—a fact which played a major role in the events of A Feast For Crows—but it’s unclear whether that plotline will play into the show’s revised approach to Dorne.
I’m admittedly disappointed that the show chose to drop Arianne, a memorable POV character in the books who could have been a strong addition to the cast, and I know I’m not the only one. I’m also curious about the fact that only three of the Sand Snakes have been cast (Tyene, Obera, and Nymeria), although Oberyn mentioned having eight daughters in a conversation with Cersei shortly before having his head smushed in like an overripe gourd (still not over it). I’m not sure if that means the other five Sands are too busy causing trouble elsewhere or if the show just couldn’t handle that much collective awesomeness, but let’s hope that Ellaria and the three sisters are more than capable of holding their own against Jaime, Uncle Doran, and anyone else who might try to rain on their parade.
Sad News for Fans Of A Good Old-Fashioned Kingsmoot
Maybe due to all the focus on the sun-drenched sands of Dorne, we’re going to be spending a lot less time in the Iron Islands than we do in the novels—it seems that all Greyjoy-driven plots (not involving Theon/Reek) will have to wait for a later season, if they’re going to factor in at all.
In the books, of course, beloved father-of-the-year Balon dies and the matter of who will succeed him is hashed out at a kingsmoot. Both Asha (Yara, on the show) and her uncle Victarion lay claim to the Seastone Chair, but Balon’s brother Euron wins the day, to the delight of basically no one. Euron sends his estranged brother Victarion to deliver a proposal of marriage to Daenerys, while Victarion plans to take Dany for himself and bind her dragons to his own cause.
Personally, the less time my brain spends marinating in the damp grizzled grizzly dampness of House Greyjoy, the happier I tend to be, but I realize that there are plenty of Kraken fans out there who’ll miss the grim-faced power plays of A Feast for Crows as well as Victarion’s high-seas adventuring in A Dance with Dragons. If it helps lessen the sting, there’s a fascinating fan theory floating around which suggests that Euron and Daario are actually the same person—it sounds completely crazy at first, but as this amazingly helpful video explains, the two are described in very similar ways (both physically and in terms of personality) and plenty of curious connections can be drawn between their backgrounds and exploits. In the end, the theory probably doesn’t work, but as long as the show is making changes and setting its own course, it’s certainly a fun idea to mull over.
Meanwhile, Scary Tree-Yoda Teaches Bran Stark To Fly Somewhere Up North…
Bran, Hodor, and Meera Reed will be sidelined in Season 5, after losing Jojen in a wight attack, finally reaching the mystical weirwood tree and meeting a Child of the Forest, who leads them to the three-eyed crow/Bloodraven/Brynden Rivers. Since the finale of Season Four brought Bran’s story up to date with A Dance with Dragons, the plan is for much of his training to occur off-screen, so maybe we can hope for an amazing Karate Kid-style training montage to kick off Season Six?
Showrunner David Benioff compared the move to the way the Star Wars movies handles Luke’s transformation between Empire and Return of the Jedi. It makes a certain amount of sense, although it might be a shock to catch up with Isaac Hempstead Wright after so much time has passed. He was only 11 when the show started filming, and will be turning 17 by the time sixth season is released (assuming the show keeps to its yearly release schedule), so expect Bran to be quite a bit more grown-up (and also magic) the next time we see him! There’s also no guarantee at this time that Hempstead Wright will return to the role, since actors are normally released from their contracts when sitting out for a season, but happily all signs seem to point to his return in 2016.
So, while we’re watching Jon Snow trying to keep Melisandre at bay (and away from poor Shireen, hopefully), Stannis preparing to take the North (in spite of those pesky, psychotic Boltons), Cersei and Margaery trading body blows under the watchful eye of the High Sparrow, and everybody else tromping all over the Eyrie, Dorne, and Essos—just remember that somewhere north of the Wall, Bran is finally coming into his own. And when he shows up riding a luckdragon, or a giant eagle, or a Nimbus 2000 or something in Season Six, it’s going to be totally worth the wait.
Looking ahead: Ten Seasons and a Theme Park?
Showrunners D.B. Weiss and David Benioff still seem to be sticking to their plan of ending the show after seven seasons, but HBO execs would prefer to pull a reverse-Deadwood and extend the show to ten seasons. For his part, George R.R. Martin says he’d be on board with a longer run (and also a movie, for what it’s worth, and you can’t really blame him for wanting to ride this magical gravy train all the way to Biscuit Junction), but if that’s where we’re headed (Biscuit Junction?), what does it mean for the major characters and plotlines, moving forward?
Would that mean bringing back some of these excised plotlines and characters? Will Aegon Targaryen finally get some time to shine? Will we ever get to see Jaime wrangle with the wily Blackfish? Will Gregorstein and Qyburn finally debut their snappy rendition of “Puttin’ On The Ritz”? And if so, do we want to see all these things, or would you prefer a more streamlined version of events, with a definite end in sight? Please sound off in the comments, and let me know if I’ve missed any other major departures from the novels coming up this season—with so much going on, it’s getting hard to keep track!
Bridget McGovern is the managing editor of Tor.com and SHE IS OF THE NIGHT.
I don’t like these changes at all. It’s basically not ASOIAF anymore.
I suspect Season 5 will be the jumping off season for many fans of the books
Interesting analysis of the upcoming season. Like many fans of the books I’m a little sad that the show is making these changes. The show is really becoming a true adaptation of the story, rather than a retelling. I don’t agree with @niu that book fans will jump ship though. I think as readers we’re all getting a bit annoyed at how long it is taking GRRM to finish the series, so watching the show is a good way to fill the void. Also, if the show does start to really diviate from the book by removing plotlines and characters, this will hopefully make reading the books when the come out, all the more interesting since hopefully the show won’t ruin all of the plotlines. We’ll see.
I for one, am fully on board with the changes!
The show is a different animal for me, because it’s one of the things I get to do with my dad, and he loves talking about it and theorizing. But honestly, as much as I love GRRM as a writer, the books really drag me down in too much muck and misery. The show is hardly watered down, but for the most part, I can dig it being a somewhat separate entity.
Both have their merits, but they have long since not been the same creature. S2 had slight changes, and since then it’s been an increasingly different road.
With Bananarama’s “Cruel Summer” as the background music, as we see shots of Bran’s Summer hunting prey?
It’s interesting how the first couple seasons were fairly faithful to the books, but the show has continued to deviate for production reasons, and maybe because the books started to “sprawl” instead of coming into the sharper focus of an end game. If the show doesn’t include Aegon at all, I guess that tells us book readers that he is the mummer’s dragon that we suspected he was.
ok, I lost it at the image of Bran on a Nimbus 2000. (I also immediately pictured him on Buckbeak, too.)
So many changes.
The bad part is, I assume the books and the show are moving toward the same ending. So, if Aegon isn’t appearing in the show, it means he’s not an important part of the ending of the books. (That kills all the speculation that he’ll be riding one of the three dragons at some point, doesn’t it?)
#1: “It’s basically not ASOIAF anymore.”
I’ve felt that the books stopped being the ASOIAF I used to love sometime around A Feast for Crows, so I’m fine with the changes. As a book reader, I really wasn’t sure where Martin was going with the bloated cast of characters and meandering plot.
I’m looking forward to a satisfying ending to the TV series at least – not so sure about the books ever being able to deliver that.
@6:
That was my thought when I heard the casting news earlier this year. Coupled with the fact that neither the Mummer’s Dragon prophecy nor the vision of Rheagar, Elia and Aegon were fetured in the House of the Undying. So, lthey knew they weren’t going to feature those plotlines very, very early on.
Does anybody know if we’re getting Moqorro? I’m really fascinated by Moqorro, IN THE BOOKS.
My problem with all these changes is that it must be like writing two novels at once for GRRM. He has to come up with two different but coherent overarching plots. If he’s not that involved with the show, then DnD are just allowed to come up with their own story and they may not be keeping an overarching plot in mind. The latter may become problematic because the urge to create irrelevant side-plots is too great. Season 5, 6 etc may just tread-water until GRRM steps away from the dinner table and finishes his story in the books
My guess is that Myrcella is getting Arrianne’s plot. Which would be awesome
For those critical of GRRM, do you really think Benioff and Weiss will be able to surpass him as storytellers when they’re telling their own story?
Thank goodness we’ve strayed from the books. I could barely extricate myself from the morass of boring they had turned into. GoT the series is turning out to be a nicely done adaptation and I, for one, will consider whatever ending I get as what would have happened in the book(s).
The books have already tossed me into what I call Cave Bear territory. I will never let another writer do to me what Jean Auel did. Stephen King restored a bit of faith after the ending of The Dark Tower, but I don’t know GRRM as well.
I just hope it doesn’t turn into Trueblood (was there EVER such bad writing done as in the final season).
@6 I don’t think it’s a correct to assume the show will have the same ending as the books. Possibly similar, but I’m betting they’ll be more different than the same (assuming GRRM ever finishes…)
And holy cow — is that a picture of Tyrion sitting with Dany and Hizdaar at the pit fights? So… will Tyrion be taking the place of Strong Belwas, and eating the poisoned locusts? Taking a hit for Dany might put him in Barristan’s good graces. Or will he detect the trap before she falls victim? I’m so curious to see how this will play out.
Also – I would love Sansa to take on the role of Stark-Avenger. Really I think that would be a great direction for her character. Of course culminating in realizing who exactly caused it all in the first place…
I’m interested in the changes because to me it is now a completely different story, that I also like. In a way I’m disappointed they aren’t adhering closer to the book – only because I won’t get to see the actual book story play on screen. But that’s it. I can see so many good reasons why they are changing it and I agree with all of them.
As to @11 and others who doubt the creators’ ability to tell a good story: surpass? Maybe not, if you mean strictly in the deconstructive crapsack world genre that GRRM basically invented. I doubt it will have as much intrigue and character-driven arcs and growth that goes on in the books. But I do think it’s capable of being a good story with its own merits. We’ll just have to wait and see.
@11: I think it remains to be seen whether Benioff and Weiss can deliver a satisfying ending on their own. I’m hopeful, since in my view, many of their former additions and changes to the storyline have made for a stronger, tighter story.
I think the worst option all around would be to put the series on hold indefinitely, waiting for Martin to finish the books. We all know that could take some time… Barring that, I don’t see what else the scriptwriters can do, except to write their own ending based on the storylines they have.
And of course it would be wrong to assume the TV series would constrain Martin as a writer. Why would it? I’m perfectly happy to see a different ending for the TV series and the books.
As someone who likes Feast for Dragons (TM), I’m concerned that the showrunners will screw up the details leading to an effective resolution of the story. Hoping that they won’t, but I’m concerned.
Even some of the small changes are potentially troubling. In the TV show, Tyene is being portrayed as a badass with a weapon of choice (a whip, I think). I’m having trouble seeing how that reconciles to the book version, who looks sweet but is vicious and knowledgeable in poisons. I wanted our Septa-looking Tyene, who will be specifically assigned to get in good with the High Sparrow and other religious powers in KL that will be featured on the TV show. So, are we going to skip having a Sand Snake heading to KL to infiltrate the religious orders? Or is whip girl going to put that away and fake being pure, even though Jaime will quickly learn that she is not in fact holy. Or will they make up a new f-Tyene character out of the remaining five Sand Snakes? Tis a puzzle and I’m worried about what is left out with the new Sand Snakes. Especially Sarella (but that is a whole other subject….)
And…the Greyjoys. Are they skipped for this year or are they dropped totally?
And is Sam going to Oldtown? Do we get the faceless man infiltration? Do we get Marwyn and the Sphinx?
Lord of the Rings turned out well even without including such important scenes as Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire. These scenes are important because they show the character development of the hobbits from beginning to end. In the films, this growth was demonstrated in other ways.
At some point, you have to trust the showrunners to use their medium to tell the story. They do know GRRM’s intended ending, and the path there may be different, but the demands of visual storytelling are very different than for text, not the least of which is a budgetary restriction on the number of characters which can be portrayed.
Hell, yes! Now if Bronn joined up with the two of them, you’d have my favorite trio in the same place. While I’ll certainly miss some of the stuff they’re dropping from the books — Stoneheart, Arianne, etc. — I don’t mind when a series diverges from its source so long as it’s still good. Season 4 tripped a few times, so hopefully season 5 can make up for it.
I don’t think HBO ever dreamed that they would beat GRRM to the end of the story. But given that they have their constraints, and he has his, I am content to see the two stories become very different tales. It won’t be the first time that book and TV stories diverged from each other, although it is a bit unusual to have the TV story ending before the books.
One example off the top of my head is the Hamish MacBeth series of murder mysteries. The TV Hamish was VERY different from book Hamish, but I loved them both.
To those saying that the show and the books will become very different tales, that’s not necessarily true. GRRM has his hands full with just the books. DnD were working from those books. What we’re actually going to get is what DnD come up with season to season with no real endpoint in mind. That is a recipe for disaster because it invites stories that don’t actually go anywhere with the constraint that certain characters must survive until the end.
If I were GRRM, I’d finish ASOIAF as quickly as possible before the TV Show destroys all the goodwill GRRM has earned up to this point.
@19, But they’ve always been different tales.
GRRM’s story is about hubris and ignorance, intolerance and misogyny, religous devotion and the dangers therein, and the problems with holding people’s children responsible for what their parents have done(though I think he makes a good case that the Boltons all need to be dead).
D&D’s story isn’t about any of those things. It uses some of the same events that happen in GRRMs books, but the story they tell is different. It touches on that stuff, but the show is much more about the political intrigue, the scheming. For example, look how much time was spent with Lady Olenna. In the books, she’s a background figure, because the characters we’re supposed to care about aren’t involved in duplicitous scheming. But the show casts Dame Diana Rigg and gives her incredible scenes with Charles Dance. The schemes and plots are what are important to the show. GRRM is more concerned with the effects.
The more I hear about S5, the more I’m reminded of Richard Bentley’s famous line about Pope’s translation of the Iliad: “It is a very pretty poem, Mr. Pope, but you must not call it Homer.”
I have to throw in my two cents here because I see people saying they are not liking the books anymore.
My opinion is this, the first three books built up so much steam and just punched everybody in the face and now they are slowing down. I’m hoping they pick up again with the next books but I think people need to stick in there to see the story really take off again. A Storm of Swords really tied up a lot of loose ends and then cut the knots, letting frayed strings muddy the scene. My hope is that Martin is retying them and will keep things interesting.
@22, Yep, these last two books have been a slow build up of everything that’s going to come crashing down, like ASOS.
I’m not really bothered too much if they change so many things in the show probably because I couldn’t get past season 1 after reading the books. But now I’m wondering if I should do a marathon before this new season starts just to get in the loop of the show’s storylines. It’s always interesting for me when show writers take these stories in different directions. It’s like fan fiction come to life or something.
By the way, I totally enjoyed this piece. I LOL’d at Jaime and Bronn being “besties” and Bran riding a Nimbus 2000. Awesome writing as usual. :D
@13 “I would love Sansa to take on the role of Stark-Avenger.” I thought that was Iron Man’s job?
As an anime viewer, I’ve seen a lot of shows which have been closely adapted from a manga or series of novels which haven’t finished yet, and have had to come up with their own ending. Results range from awkward and abrupt to better than the source.
GRRM has provided them with a plot outline of how he’s planning for the series to go, so they do have an endpoint in mind, but obviously they have to get there with a smaller cast of characters.
The only thing I don’t like about this whole situation of the TV series out pacing the books, is that it implies that certain characters (eg Aegon) don’t play a real part in the plot, so I won’t be reading his chapters in the same way. We’ll have to wait and see though.
@26, He doesn’t play a part in the show. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t play a part in the show.
Like Lady Stoneheart. There is no doubt that her actions are having an effect on the outcome. The show is getting to the same place, but without having her actions get us there.
Interesting points about the difference between book vs show themes. They are definitely different media and focusing on different things, and telling the story in different ways. There are many different aspects to the books, and the show is focusing on only some of them. And perhaps that is not the ones that all fans of the books feel are the most important. I can’t fault fans of the books for deciding the show is not for them (I have had similar reactions to adaptations of my own favorite works where I feel that certain changes made completely miss ‘the point’, at least in my mind, of what the works are about, or remove one of the elements that happens to be particularly meaningful for me).
And I am not so sure that decisions made in the show mean too much about the importance of said plots/characters in the books. Not to mention that there could still be some surprises in store. But it’s not that uncommon to merge characters together in adaptations.
Some of the changes really do irritate me (Arianne and the Sand Snakes, mainly) but some of them I have enjoyed (I loved the Arya/Hound dynamic in the show).
But, I like the show and books for different reasons – although, ultimately, I think the books are better/more interesting. In fact, I quite like the 4th and 5th books. I think there’s some good meat in there. I don’t mind when things start to sprawl, actually.
I wouldn’t bet Lady Stoneheart is cut for good.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t see her in Season 5, but I have the feeling the producers will bring her back in Season 6 (or earlier).
I think Stoneheart will be back in the S5 finale or S6 premiere. That way viewers won’t be distracted with her return during all these S5 shenanigans in Dorne/King’s Landing/Meereen. Her return will coincide with the return of the new and improved Bran in S6.
So, if this is season 5 and there are only going to be 7 seasons, does this mean that the Others are going to get behind the Wall at this season or not? I think not, with this season still dealing mainly with mundane conflicts (Boltons x Stannis and Jon in the North , Cersei x Margaery x High Septon, maybe Dorne declaring war against the Lannister-Tyrell alliance, Jon facing the Ides of Marsh).
It’s either season 6 or season 7 that will probably have Others and Dany finally invading Westeros. Since there are no Greyjoy shenanigans, Dany will have to get other boats to transport her and her army from Slaver’s Bay to Westeros. Probably something to do with Tyrion or Illyrio or maybe even the boats used to besiege Meereen. Since there’s no Aegon, Dorne will have to face the other realms alone.
Also, since there’s no Lady Stoneheart and Jaime is going to Dorne instead of the Riverlands, I think Brienne will end either being killed by Sansa/Littlefinger or serving them. Maybe she’ll end up serving Sansa and killing Littlefinger in a future season.
I doubt Lady Stoneheart is ever going to appear on the show. One of the show’s directors said the concept was stupid.
It’s obvious. At the end of show we’re going to find out that all the characters have been dead all along. GRRM loves that trope.
@31 The last bit of this post points out that the show runners are now saying 10 seasons. Gives them a good bit of room to add in things people are worried will be missing. Definitely seems like they could fit in some of the Greyjoy stuff.
I had a discussion with some guys here about the seven season deadline being self imposed…and they didnt believe me, so I’ll just gloat a bit…D&D ruined so much thanks to that….I understand they think they’re the reason this shows a success, but they dont even like the source material after the red wedding….they shouldve just stayed on as exec producers and handed it to someone willing to put on the work for the long run.
@31, Season 6 could be about getting Victarion to Dany
As I recall the original article, D&D said they’d like to keep the schedule tight and hoped to do 7 seasons, but didn’t forclose one or more additional seasons.
I’ve just found out now that GRRM won’t be writing the usual 1 episode this season. He said he’ll focus on writing TWOW. Very interesting. And possibly for the best. Sometimes his characterizations were different from what was seem in other writers. Like Tormund Giantsbane, who behaves differently in his episode (more like the books) compared to the rest of the show.
@37, I’m still of the opinion that he’s done with TWOW, he’s just pulling a Stephen King and finishing Dream of Spring first.
@38, I think that A Time For Wolves is back in the picture and that putting it there means he’s pretty much done with almost everything that’s still going to be in Winds and thus is making a final push on it…
@33 Its HBO who want 10 seasons, GRRM seemed to think the story would need 10 seasons from the beginning, but it’s the show runners who self imposed a 7 season deadline form the start of the 3rd…interviews with them simply give away the reason: they think they’re better than GRRM and they really only loved the story until the red wedding. If they were actually better, I would have no problem with it, but the way they screwed up the latter part of season 4 and structured season 5 from the looks of it, just makes me cringe, knowing full well these guys had free rein to go with the better material(because HBO knows this show is their biggest hit) and chose to appease their egos instead. Yes, books 4/5 have some things that would maybe be inapropiate for the medium(just like Dany in Quarth in season 2), BUT streamlining the story was possible and would’ve kept things from dragging whila at the same time given us plenty of the book story to be played out on screen. The way they went about it just seems like people who only care about getting to the end. I do like the show and it can be good going forward, but what annoys me is knowing(and getting confirmation) that they could’ve gone with the better, more complete story, and they chose not to.
not having lady stoneheart is a stupid decision. Hope it wasn’t contractual stuff with the actress. That was a great addition to the story and not somethey they should have removed. Very stupid, getting rid of the iron kingdoms INCREDIBLY STUPID. Geez, loosing faith in this show now hard core …and really the tree roots are supposed to be growing through the guy and he is almost dead only a skeleton. The pic of him is NOTHING like what the books describe. Sigh … oh well I suppose the awesomeness couldn’t be kept up forever.
How much of this is fact and how much is just speculation based on the videos and photos? For example, Lady Stoneheart would never be shown in videos or photos because it would be a spoiler for the people who haven’t read the books. Unless you have a definitive statement from the producers or the actress, saying she won’t appear seems like a guess. It’s fun to speculate based on the photos and videos, but it would be a mistake to draw definitive conclusions from them because, after all, it *is* A Game of Thrones.
Books 1,2,3 were great, 4 OK and 5 a real snooze fest. GRRM lost his way after book 3. Does he have it in him to bring back the Song of Ice and Fire and make it a page turner. Maybe – the odds 1 in 10.
I gave up about halfway through book 2. I got bored; it just takes too damn long for anything to happen.
I’m kind of looking forward to the show vs. the books. I agree the last book was a complete snore. Many of those plot lines and characters could easily be combined. Might even be less confusing!
Movies and books are always different. I’m looking forward to being surprised instead of seeing what they deleted or changed.
I”m just glad it’s coming back!
I am just hoping that they will stop killing off characters for absolutely no reason. Martin might not have a clue where to take the characters (and thus kills them) but I think HBO has a chance to right the wrongs…
It’s like George R.R. Martin read all the sad, dank, boring camping sequences in the last Harry Potter book, and walked away thinking, “My next novel needs more of THAT. I’m going to sidetrack the shit out of these guys for a few zillion chapters.”
BRILLIANT! :)
I agree as follows: Takes soooloong for books to come out I have to go back & reread to remember where I am. But as show deviates more & more from books , show is just not as good as books.
Well, I have been on a mission. I have re-read books 1-5 (1,2,and 3 Great A+++. book 4 OK, book 5 GRRM slips big time. The I binged watched all GOT and have formed a new opinion. The Show on HBO is so much better than the books starting with season 4. I believe that the show runners for GOT will tell a much better and satisfying story in finishing GOT than GRRM could hope to achieve.
Larry
I’m happy with the changes. Now I don’t feel like I need to watch the show.
The more Thrones the better! Fans of the book are quite right in saying that the series is not A Song of Ice and Fire, and they should be happy about it. The series is equally as good as the books, albeit in a highly compacted form, but it has the added advantage of visual spectacle and flair to help enrich the storytelling. That being said, there is plenty of material in the books to extend the series to ten seasons, and I see absolutely no reason at all why one season should have to equate to one book, especially given the truncated format of a ten episode season. I’m also on board with the series diverging from the books because that allows the books to exist as separate entities and allows both readers and viewers alike to discover and enjoy the differences. Those people who call themselves true fans of the books but are too closed minded and dogmatic to appreciate the differences in the two formats, are merely limiting their own opportunities to be entertained.
Long live Game of Thrones!
Long live A Song of Ice and Fire!
I think George R.R. Martin wants the show to run to 10 seasons so that HBO can tell him how to finish the books and complete his series.
Thing is and with all respect to everyone who adores these books – I have them too – I kept looking for the genius of David Gemmell’s Troy Trilogy (same genre) and Gemmell so outwrites Mr Martin that I could no longer read and jumped to the last big book for a glance through. I for one think I’ll probably not be watching. There is hardly any character development and but for Tyrion…
A belated tip of the hat for this intelligent speculation about the course of the TV version of “Game of Thrones.” I number among those who have been happy, for the most part, with the changes introduced by Benioff and Weiss. But that was tinkering compared to the surgery needed to keep “A Feast for Crows” moving coherently. While we all have our preferences, I would be disappointed if Lady Stoneheart is excised, though I have absolutely no desire for any dead or dying Cleganes to come back to life. Finally, we are about to find out.